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[0:58] Jesse McAnally: Alright, let's get on to the real show.

[1:04] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[1:06] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[1:08] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater more.

[1:13] Jesse McAnally: And today we have a returning guest.

[1:15] Andrew DeWolf: A returning guest.

[1:16] Jesse McAnally: A wonderful friend, a kind person, and one of the most talented musical theater creators out there. It is Christi Esterle, a.k.a. Musical Hell.

[1:25] Christi Esterle: Hello, hello.

[1:27] Jesse McAnally: We're so glad to have you back.

[1:29] Christi Esterle: Thank you. It's good to be back.

[1:31] Jesse McAnally: I like that if they're a returning guest, they don't get the very special guest intro. They get returning guest.

[1:35] Christi Esterle: I'm not special anymore.

[1:37] Andrew DeWolf: Very nice of you, Jess. You're fantastic. I think you're special. That's fine.

[1:42] Christi Esterle: Aww.

[1:43] Jesse McAnally: How are we all doing today? Christy, how are you?

[1:45] Christi Esterle: Doing very well, thank you.

[1:46] Andrew DeWolf: Quite well. And Andrew, how are you?

[1:48] Andrew DeWolf: Is this where I try to come up with a joke referring to the show we watched?

[1:52] Jesse McAnally: Exactly.

[1:53] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not sure I got one for this. What do you have, Jess?

[1:58] Jesse McAnally: There we go. It was that easy.

[2:00] Jesse McAnally: Alright. She's feeling like hell because today we are talking about Hadestown.

[2:05] Jesse McAnally: One, two, one, two, three.

[2:08] Jesse McAnally: Hadestown, Hadestown, way down under the ground.

[2:12] Jesse McAnally: Hadestown, Hadestown, way down under the ground.

[2:17] Jesse McAnally: Way down under the ground.

[2:20] Jesse McAnally: Hadestown.

[2:22] Christi Esterle: Hadestown, The Myth, The Musical is a 2016 stage musical adaptation of the 2010 folk opera concept album by the same name, by Anais Mitchell.

[2:32] Christi Esterle: The show premiered off-Broadway at New York Theatre Workshop on May 6, 2016 and ran through July 31st, following productions in Edmonton and London.

[2:41] Christi Esterle: The show premiered in previews on Broadway in March of 2019.

[2:46] Christi Esterle: The show was developed for the stage and directed by Rachel Chavkin of Natasha Pierre, The Great Comet of 1812.

[2:53] Christi Esterle: Like the original concept album, Hadestown tells a version of the ancient Greek myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, where Orpheus journeys to the underworld to rescue his fiancée, Eurydice.

[3:03] Christi Esterle: It received generally positive reviews. The New York Times described the off-Broadway production as inventive and gorgeously sung.

[3:12] Christi Esterle: As well, the new Broadway production has gotten even better reviews.

[3:17] Jesse McAnally: And a metric crap ton of Tony Awards.

[3:20] Christi Esterle: Yes!

[3:21] Jesse McAnally: Or, yeah, Tony Award nominations, I'm sorry. It hasn't won anything yet.

[3:25] Christi Esterle: It better get a metric crap ton of awards because I'm still bitter about Great Comet.

[3:29] Jesse McAnally: Fuck yes, this better make up.

[3:31] Christi Esterle: Rachel Chavkin deserves her Tony.

[3:34] Andrew DeWolf: I think Dear Evan Hansen should just win again this year.

[3:37] Jesse McAnally: Bite your tongue.

[3:40] Christi Esterle: So, I feel like it's very clear that we're all very positive about this show.

[3:44] Andrew DeWolf: Definitely.

[3:45] Christi Esterle: I'm a huge fan of Greek mythology and, you know, obviously a huge fan of musicals.

[3:51] Christi Esterle: And I love folk music because it has a lot of the same storytelling elements that draw me to music theater.

[3:57] Christi Esterle: So, this is like, you know, right in my sweet spot of, you know, things that just make me giddy and happy.

[4:02] Christi Esterle: I love concept albums.

[4:04] Christi Esterle: Jess knows that.

[4:06] Jesse McAnally: Concept albums are good.

[4:08] Christi Esterle: And this is based on a concept album.

[4:11] Christi Esterle: And I also like the bluesy folk music style as well.

[4:15] Christi Esterle: And mythology is awesome.

[4:17] Christi Esterle: So, it's like everything is great.

[4:20] Christi Esterle: And those who follow me for a long time will know that one of my earliest short films was actually an adaptation of Orpheus and Eurydice.

[4:27] Christi Esterle: So, this story has, like, that very deep connection to me.

[4:30] Jesse McAnally: Of course it's got something to do with Jess.

[4:33] Christi Esterle: Good God.

[4:36] Jesse McAnally: Of course it does.

[4:38] Christi Esterle: Yes.

[4:39] Christi Esterle: And as well, like, Rachel Chavkin, like, watching her grow from Great Comet, like, the thing she brought to that show that she also is bringing to this one, she is redesigning what exactly a director does on Broadway stage.

[4:53] Christi Esterle: She's very inventive. She does amazing things with, you know, sets and lighting and, you know, using the cast in various ways.

[5:02] Christi Esterle: And it's just wonderful to watch.

[5:05] Christi Esterle: It's an amazing experience.

[5:06] Christi Esterle: And currently the show is nominated for 14 Tonys.

[5:09] Christi Esterle: Best Musical, Best Performance of an Actress, Best Performance of an Actor, Best Performance of a Supporting Actress in a Feature Role.

[5:15] Christi Esterle: Twice. Best Original Score, Best Book of a Musical, Best Direction of a Musical, Best Choreography, Best Scenic Design, Best Costume Design, Best Lighting Design, Best Sound Design, and Best Orchestrations.

[5:25] Christi Esterle: Pretty much the only thing it's not nominated for is Reeve Carney as Best Actor in a Musical.

[5:31] Andrew DeWolf: And, yeah, there are people who are pissed off about that, so.

[5:34] Jesse McAnally: How do you feel about that?

[5:36] Christi Esterle: I think, you know, I can understand why they're unhappy about it because it's got all these awards that he's getting left out.

[5:44] Christi Esterle: But at the same time, I kind of get it because I feel like, you know, Orpheus is kind of, you know, not the big personality in this musical.

[5:53] Christi Esterle: I mean, Eurydice, I think, has this great journey.

[5:56] Christi Esterle: And then you have, you know, Hades and Persephone, who I think are, you know, I think are the real stars of the show, if you want my honest opinion.

[6:03] Christi Esterle: And then, of course, you have Hermes, who is like, you know, your narrator, MC, you know, guide character.

[6:09] Christi Esterle: So they kind of draw the attention a lot more.

[6:15] Jesse McAnally: I agree with you.

[6:16] Christi Esterle: In fact, I think the most brilliant thing about the adaptation to a different medium is the fact that they took the story away from Orpheus and Eurydice and kind of put the framing device through Persephone and Hades.

[6:28] Christi Esterle: Yeah, it's kind of this parallel journey between these two couples and seeing them go through, you know, go through their relationships and how they're similar is really one of the better parts of the show.

[6:44] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I don't know much about the Tony nominations, but it looks like everyone got nominated in the whole show.

[6:49] Andrew DeWolf: I'm just reading here 14 nominations.

[6:52] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. How am I supposed to feel about that, Jess?

[6:56] Jesse McAnally: You should feel pretty goddamn good.

[7:02] Andrew DeWolf: Best choreography. They definitely did spin a lot. I liked it.

[7:05] Andrew DeWolf: I loved the spinning.

[7:07] Christi Esterle: Yeah, but they've also got some fantastic stuff. I just saw where they did Living It Up on top on Good Morning America.

[7:15] Christi Esterle: And, you know, that had some amazing work in it.

[7:19] Christi Esterle: Wait For Me, which they've expanded from the original Off-Broadway live album.

[7:24] Christi Esterle: I guess not the original second album. They've added some amazing stuff that they're doing with the lighting, which, you know, looks really good.

[7:31] Christi Esterle: So there are definitely some really good theatrical moments in there. They did a great job with it. It deserved probably all of these.

[7:39] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know its competition, so I can't say.

[7:42] Christi Esterle: Well, I know Diva is not a fan of Be More Chill.

[7:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, definitely.

[7:47] Christi Esterle: The other four nominees are, what, Tootsie, Ain't Too Proud, Beetlejuice, and The Prom.

[7:54] Andrew DeWolf: There is one more.

[7:56] Christi Esterle: Beetlejuice has got to be good, right?

[7:59] Andrew DeWolf: It's getting mixed reviews.

[8:03] Christi Esterle: We'll leave it at that.

[8:05] Andrew DeWolf: I liked it.

[8:06] Jesse McAnally: Jess likes it. One of Jess's first films was Beetlejuice, actually.

[8:14] Jesse McAnally: Alright, Christy, give me the full plot synopsis of this new version of Hadestown.

[8:21] Christi Esterle: Just landed on her.

[8:23] Christi Esterle: Okay, now, this is my wheelhouse, okay? And I'm doing At The Source right now, which is also summarizing musicals pretty succinctly, or source material for musicals.

[8:33] Christi Esterle: But anyway, basically, this is the story of Orpheus and Eurydice, which, if you go back to the original myth, Orpheus is this great musician.

[8:45] Christi Esterle: In most versions, he's the son of the god Apollo and or Calliope, who is one of the muses.

[8:51] Christi Esterle: So he has crazy mad musical talent. He falls in love with Eurydice, and Eurydice dies.

[8:58] Christi Esterle: So he goes to the underworld to get her back.

[9:01] Christi Esterle: And Hades agrees, because Orpheus is such an awesome musician that he gets everybody to fall in love with him and do what he wants.

[9:09] Christi Esterle: So Hades says, okay, you can take her back, but you have to walk all the way back to the world of the living and not look back to see if she's following you.

[9:17] Christi Esterle: And depending on which version you go on, either he looks back about halfway through because he doesn't trust she's there, or he gets right to the threshold of the gates of hell and then turns around, but she's still behind him, so it doesn't count.

[9:32] Christi Esterle: So that's the myth. And what Anais Mitchell has done is she's kind of reframed this in this kind of semi post-apocalyptic Great Depression.

[9:44] Christi Esterle: It's one of those things that's kind of then and now and every time all at once.

[9:49] Christi Esterle: And she's reframed the underworld as Hadestown, which is this industrial dystopia ruled over by Hades, who is a robber baron who works all his people to death building this huge wall around his kingdom.

[10:03] Christi Esterle: And Eurydice goes down there because up on earth, up on top, she's starving and cold and she wants money and security.

[10:12] Christi Esterle: And so Orpheus has to go and get her back. I mean, that's pretty much it.

[10:17] Christi Esterle: I should also explain that the reason why it is so cold and miserable up on the surface world is because Hades' wife, Persephone, who brings the spring and summer and helps the seasons turn, he's been kind of bringing her back home early because he's jealous and afraid she's going to leave him.

[10:36] Christi Esterle: And so, you know, the spring and summer have been being shorter and shorter. And now there's this big famine.

[10:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. There's also trains now.

[10:46] Christi Esterle: Yes. There is a train that goes between Hadestown and the surface world.

[10:51] Christi Esterle: And it's a big motif in the show. I love trains.

[10:58] Jesse McAnally: Didn't everybody go through that train phase when they were a kid?

[11:01] Christi Esterle: I mean, at least boys did. I think most girls did.

[11:04] Christi Esterle: I had a Thomas the Tank Engine, a whole Thomas the Tank Engine set. And I would make short films about trains.

[11:09] Christi Esterle: Some of my first short films were actually about trains.

[11:12] Andrew DeWolf: My boys were all over Thomas the Tank Engine at preschool.

[11:16] Christi Esterle: So this show really resonated with me.

[11:20] Jesse McAnally: You know what? I'm sick of your shit, Andrew.

[11:26] Christi Esterle: So we have this framing device of Hermes telling us this through his point of view.

[11:34] Christi Esterle: And he is so wonderfully played by André De Shields, as well as in the 2016 production by Chris Sullivan, who is also known as Taserface from Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2.

[11:45] Jesse McAnally: I did not know that.

[11:47] Christi Esterle: Yeah, I learned that today, too.

[11:49] Christi Esterle: He was Taserface. Okay, that's pretty incredible.

[11:54] Christi Esterle: He's also on This Is Us, which is another, like, yeah, he's pretty big now.

[11:58] Andrew DeWolf: Why did Taserface not get a music number?

[12:00] Christi Esterle: But either way, we both have that framing device and the Fates, which are three ladies that occasionally interrupt in the story and give, like, the inner monologue and thoughts and reflection of things.

[12:13] Christi Esterle: If I'm going to give any critique about this show, it would be that it is a little confused at the fates between Hermes and the Fates.

[12:22] Christi Esterle: Like, who is really the framing device of the show? And I feel like that was a much bigger problem in earlier productions, and it has been lessened as it's gone to Broadway.

[12:31] Christi Esterle: It's Hermes.

[12:33] Christi Esterle: Yeah, it kind of makes sense, but you kind of have to have a little mythological background to understand it.

[12:38] Christi Esterle: Because Hermes is, you know, what they call a psychopomp. He's the person who—or he's the figure that guides people between the world of the living and the world of the dead.

[12:47] Christi Esterle: So, yeah, he is kind of our messenger, guide, character between these two worlds.

[12:52] Christi Esterle: And then the Fates, you know, obviously were the people who—or the figures who set everybody's destiny and could not be gainsayed by anybody, including the gods.

[13:03] Christi Esterle: So, yeah, they're the ones kind of in the background, you know, kind of whispering in people's ears and kind of pushing them in the direction that destiny leads them.

[13:10] Christi Esterle: That's what I was going to say. You're going to hear me myth-geeking out a lot about this. I'm sorry.

[13:15] Jesse McAnally: Well, what do you think of Hades in this show? Is it accurate?

[13:20] Christi Esterle: It's—

[13:23] Christi Esterle: Well, like a lot of versions, I think Hades gets villainized in this one quite a bit, because again, you know, he is partially, you know, the god of the dead. But at the same time, they've reframed him as, you know, this capitalist tycoon who is, you know, building this empire trying to protect, well, specifically, you know, protect his relationship with his wife. And, you know, kind of building that, building this wall around him to keep him and her safe and, you know, of driving her away in the long run. So yeah, there, he is kind of a bad guy, but he's also pretty well nuanced, I think, for a villain. And he's sympathetic. Yeah, he is a sympathetic character. He's definitely better than like, the Disney version of Hades.

He's not, he's not like, he's not like a hard bad guy, like the Hercules Hades in the Disney version. But he's not like, you know, in Greek myth, he's probably the most sympathetic of, you know, the three main gods, which I would say Zeus, Poseidon and Hades, if for no other reason than the fact that he is not running around trying to stick his dick into anything that moves. That is true, which both Zeus and Poseidon are doing. Frequently. Yes. See Percy Jackson.

[14:37] Jess McAnally: Wait, they wanted to have sex with Percy Jackson? I gotta go see this.

[14:45] Christi Esterle: Nope. Okay. Out of all the characters, who do we think we relate to the most between Hades, Hermes, Orpheus, you were to see Persephone in the fates?

[14:53] Jess McAnally: Well, you know me, so definitely Hades.

[14:55] Christi Esterle: Because you're a capitalist. You're a bit of an asshole and you get jealous really easily. I got you.

[14:59] Jess McAnally: Yep, absolutely. You got all, you nailed every point. What about you, Jess?

[15:05] Andrew: Um, Persephone, I want to be everyone's fun wine aunt.

[15:11] Christi Esterle: I got to go with Persephone too, because, you know, I think she has the best perspective of things, you know, understanding that, you know, everything, you know, lives and dies in this cycle and, you know, that things are dark, but things can also get better again. And yes, because she is the fun wine aunt and because Amber Gray is the best person in the world.

[15:34] Jess McAnally: So and her performance brings a lot to it. Like the nuances and like the jazz growls that she adds to like some lines, like her physicality alone, like if they're ever going to make a biopic about like Eartha Kitt, cast Amber Gray.

[15:46] Christi Esterle: Oh my goodness, yes. She brings an innate sexuality without being sexual, which is another thing about her performance that I really like.

[15:56] Jess McAnally: Yeah, definitely. Orpheus is boring in this.

[16:00] Christi Esterle: Yes, I agree. And I feel like in other past productions, like the 2016 production, he was less boring. I just don't think Reeve Kearney is that talented a stage performer.

[16:13] Jess McAnally: Well, I think also that kind of moved him from what I understand from being, you know, kind of this driven artist to being somebody who's kind of a bit more out there mentally. So he's kind of a bit of a space case. And yeah, it is kind of difficult to, you know, bring a lot of new bring a lot of nuance to that.

[16:33] Christi Esterle: He kind of like zones out to like of the show, like he just leaves the show for a bit.

[16:39] Jess McAnally: Yeah. Like at the beginning. I don't know.

[16:41] Christi Esterle: I got to write my song. He's pulling full Roger.

[16:45] Jess McAnally: Well, he's so focused on this song because he's convinced that this song is going to bring spring back. And, you know, depending on how you interpret the ending, that's more or less what happens. But at the same time, it's one of those things that's like, OK, that's nice, honey. But, you know, I'm cold and hungry right now. So what are you going to do about it?

[17:02] Christi Esterle: You can't write a song and help your girlfriend at the same time.

[17:06] Jess McAnally: Apparently he can't.

[17:08] Christi Esterle: I like that, though, like the fact that Orpheus is kind of get dumbed down character wise, gives a lot of nuance to Eurydice, where in the original Greek myth, she's kind of a plot device. She walks into a field, gets bitten by a snake and is sent to the underworld.

[17:21] Jess McAnally: And dies.

[17:21] Christi Esterle: Yes. There's also a kind of similarity between the film Orphée by Jean Cocteau, who you may know, did the version of Beauty and the Beast in the 1950s. Both films are very fantastic. But in that version, yes, Orpheus is also, you know, this hyper focused poet who kind of ignores his wife and it comes to regret that. So there's that element going on in there in this one as well.

[17:47] Jess McAnally: Why does Eurydice die in this one? I didn't quite get that.

[17:51] Christi Esterle: Basically, Hades seduces her is the long and short of it. She's cold and he's hungry and she's kind of fed up with Orpheus not, you know, helping her out with that. And then Hades comes by and he sings this magnificent villain song called Hey, Little Songbird, which if you listen to nothing else from this musical, listen to that because Patrick Page and his amazing bass voice will rock your world.

[18:18] Jess McAnally: And he kind of, you know, offers her this way out, you know, saying that, you know, she would be beautiful. She would shine like a diamond down in the mine. And, you know, he could use a girl like her and basically offers her this opportunity to be, you know, protected and secure, which is, you know, kind of very tempting to her at that point.

[18:39] Christi Esterle: And it actually gives her an active role in her own damnation, which is something that would have been an issue for anyone else adapting this material, like giving Eurydice an active participation in her own story. And I like how, you know, they allow her to make that choice, but then they also have the fates come in and say, yeah, you can blame her for doing this, but what would you do if you were hungry and starving and desperate? I mean, you can sit there when you're in your comfortable seats with your full bellies and say, you shouldn't do that, but what's going to happen to you when the chips are down?

[19:12] Jess McAnally: Both the chips are down is a metaphor, but I also love that it's a sonic device that Hades uses to simulate the sound of a rattlesnake.

[19:22] Christi Esterle: Right. Which, again, is a great mythological parallel because it's the rattles of the snake that, you know, kills Eurydice. And, you know, it also has that Judeo-Christian parallel of the serpent tempting Eve in the garden.

[19:35] Jess McAnally: It's all very good.

[19:37] Christi Esterle: It's all very symbolic.

[19:40] Jess McAnally: Anais Mitchell has done a lot of interesting crossover with, you know, Greek mythology and American religious motifs. You can hear it in the second version of Way Down Hadestown after Eurydice is in the underworld and she's kind of realizing this wasn't the best idea. And the fates are saying, yeah, but you're kind of stuck with it. And they kind of twist all these traditional African-American spiritual imagery like, you know, crossing the river and laying down your burdens and laying his hands on you and things like that. And it's I think it's a really neat way of, you know, expressing the divinity of these characters in, you know, kind of an American folk setting.

[20:23] Christi Esterle: I think the setting is one of the strongest parts of this whole show.

[20:27] Jess McAnally: Yeah, but I have a hard time dealing with it within the connection to the story. Like, I'm hard finding the connection. I hope one of you can explain that to me, like between Great Depression and Greek mythology.

[20:40] Christi Esterle: There isn't one. That's why it's just juxtaposed.

[20:44] Andrew: Again, the time frame, I think, is very fluid because one of the first things Hermes says in Road to Hell, he says, don't ask where, don't ask when. So it's kind of, you know, it's kind of part Great Depression. It's kind of post-apocalypse. So it's, you know, in this kind of almost mythological setting.

[21:05] Christi Esterle: It's like a, um, it's like a steampunk kind of idea, basically, where, like, it doesn't matter what the setting is. It just, it exists.

[21:15] Jess McAnally: But it doesn't have the pretension of street steampunk, which I appreciate.

[21:19] Andrew: Well, that's just because it's not like Victorian.

[21:21] Christi Esterle: So, yeah, I'm not sure what you would call the 1930s version of steampunk. Would that be like gasoline punk or something? I'm not sure.

[21:30] Jess McAnally: Coal punk.

[21:31] Christi Esterle: Coal punk. Yeah, there you go.

[21:33] Jess McAnally: Coal punk is the real world right now.

[21:39] Andrew: Sorry to interrupt you, but today's show is brought to you by Audible.

[21:43] Christi Esterle: Audible is offering our listeners a free audiobook with a 30-day free trial membership. Just go to audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese and browse the unmatched selection of audio programs. Download a title free and start listening. It's that easy. Go to audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese to get started today.

[22:01] Andrew: So, this week we are suggesting Orpheus of Greek Mythology by James Gardner and narrated by Paul Spera.

[22:09] Christi Esterle: No one knows why we're recommending that. Completely unrelated.

[22:13] Andrew: To download your free audiobook today, go to audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese. Again, that's audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese for your free audiobook.

[22:22] Christi Esterle: All right, folks, let's get you back to the show.

[22:31] Jess McAnally: Can we talk about Road to Hell and how that's like such a great introduction?

[22:47] Christi Esterle: Oh my goodness. You know, I love a good opening number, but there are very few where it's like, I hear the first few notes and I'm like, oh yeah, I'm into this. But this one, you got that, you know, amazing jazzy trombone riff that they start off with. And it's like, you know, you're instantly in like this smoky New Orleans club and I'm like, oh my goodness, this is going to be fantastic.

[23:08] Jess McAnally: Yes. No, the trombone makes it. It just immediately I was like, if this is the music for the whole show, this is going to be amazing. So, and it was.

[23:21] Christi Esterle: You're kind of seeing a lot of parallels to Great Comet's prologue in this where you have somebody come up and say, OK, this is what's happening and these are all the characters, everybody give them a hand.

[23:30] Jess McAnally: Which is the right thing to do, especially in like a piece that is so like involved this, like this doesn't have nearly as many characters as Great Comet, but it is still confusing. You know, even if you do have a grounding in the myth, it kind of helps to kind of reorient you in this new setting that they've put it in.

[23:47] Christi Esterle: And introduce you to like the rules like I'm Mr. Hermes, I'm going to guide you through this and like Orpheus, you ready to see this is what they look like?

[23:56] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[23:57] Christi Esterle: It is a brilliant way like to open the show. It is right up there with tradition and like other, almost every other like great opening is like, yep, I'm ready for this. Lock me into the roller coaster. Let's go.

[24:09] Jess McAnally: Yep. And again, it's got that fantastic, you know, folk music storytelling aspect, you know, it's like, you know, once upon a time there was a railroad line and it just starts, you know, painting this beautiful picture for you. I guess not so beautiful because everything is kind of gray and depressing and Great Depression, but you get the idea.

[24:27] Christi Esterle: It's jazzy.

[24:29] Jess McAnally: It is very jazzy.

[24:31] Christi Esterle: It's the good kind of jazz. It's before jazz got super pretentious, you know, it's that jazz.

[24:36] Jess McAnally: It was before Damien Chazelle got his hands on jazz.

[24:39] Christi Esterle: You're not going to go all Sebastian and La La Land on me, are you?

[24:47] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm talking about. It's before that.

[24:50] Christi Esterle: OK.

[24:53] Jess McAnally: Before white people got involved.

[24:56] Christi Esterle: There was white people in the 30s. Get out of here.

[24:58] Jess McAnally: There's way too many of them.

[25:15] Christi Esterle: Let's talk about living it up on top. This is where we're introduced to Persephone as and in her role as basically the queen of the summertime. And she brings the wine and she brings the party and, you know, everybody's, you know, having fun. And even if they don't have an overabundance, they have just enough of everything and that's enough. So they party and have fun.

[25:39] Jess McAnally: Hell yeah.

[25:40] Christi Esterle: And it shows everyone's relationships with one another. Like, I think this is where it's cemented, like in the world, like how everyone feels about Persephone, how Orpheus feels about Eurydice, how Eurydice feels about everyone else. Like you get the feeling of everyone's relationships here.

[25:55] Jess McAnally: And you also get a sense of Orpheus's idealism, you know, how he talks about, you know, we if we share, we will always have enough and to the world we dream about. And he is trying to imagine things as better than what they are.

[26:09] Christi Esterle: So I think it's a great song. It's a it's pretty catchy, too.

[26:12] Jess McAnally: And it has Amber Gray singing it. So how can you lose?

[26:15] Christi Esterle: Amber Gray can literally sing the phone book at me and I would.

[26:18] Jess McAnally: Jess has weird fantasies.

[26:21] Christi Esterle: She has this amazing rasp to her that doesn't sound like it hurts her to sing, though. Like even when Eartha Kitt sings, like it sounds like it's hurting her. Amber Gray sings and it feels like it's bringing elation to her. And she has an innate sexuality about this character, unlike her character in Great Comet, which is just beaming with sexuality. Like at one point she's like making out with another woman. Like that one is a sexual character.

[26:46] Christi Esterle: Hers is more like, like naturally sexy in the same way that kind of like a Mama Rose is sexy.

[26:52] Andrew Clark: Yeah. And at the same time, you know, you can feel that she's kind of weighed down and broken with how her relationship with Hades has fallen apart. So there's definitely a lot of nuance to that, which, you know, obviously you didn't have with Helene in Great Comet because she was, you know, a very objectively awful person.

[27:09] Christi Esterle: But what do you think about Eurydice's I Want song that follows it up? And I find the structure of this show so strange.

[27:42] Andrew Clark: Well, it's a concept album first, right? Did they change the order of anything?

[27:47] Christi Esterle: They added more than they switched around.

[27:49] Andrew Clark: They have added, they have expanded and added and changed around some things, but the basic structure is the same. But yeah, all I've ever known, I think is just this, you know, very beautiful folk ballad. And it's got some of, I think some of my favorite lyrics at the very beginning where, and I'm going to paraphrase this, she says, you know, I was cold so long I didn't even know I was cold. I've been alone so long I didn't even know I was lonely. And you just kind of feel that ache and hollowness in her and how much she wants to believe that Orpheus could be, you know, could be her love and could be part of a better life for her.

[28:27] Andrew Clark: What do you think, Andrew?

[28:29] Andrew Clark: Well, in the original Greek myth, Eurydice is a prop. And the fact that they add so much nuance, so much idealism, so much like she is wide eyed, but not stupid. Like, I love what they did to this character. And I'm surprised that they were able to do it without betraying what the original Greek myth was trying to do.

[28:49] Christi Esterle: Right.

[28:49] Andrew Clark: I think Anaïs Mitchell really knocked it out of the park, especially with Eurydice and Persephone. I think this is a lot more about Eurydice's journey than it is about Orpheus's because, you know, he kind of takes a beating at the end. But she's the one who kind of, you know, goes through this, you know, transition of being, you know, this hard realist to, you know, being more idealistic, but still practical to being disillusioned and then just kind of broken.

[29:19] Christi Esterle: I feel like adding a lot more character to her makes the ending a lot sadder. And it's not just because for Orpheus either, because now she's the one that gets the real punishment.

[29:41] Andrew Clark: Let's move on to Way Down Hadestown, which is so fun, but also so sad.

[29:46] Christi Esterle: I love this song. This is a ton of fun.

[29:48] Andrew Clark: It's so dark because this is officially our introduction to Hades.

[29:52] Christi Esterle: Like he leers over the entire show, but this is where he finally enters and like the entrance where she's like, you're early. And he's like, I missed you.

[30:00] Andrew Clark: Oh my goodness.

[30:01] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[30:02] Andrew Clark: The relationship between these two with only one word, with one statement each.

[30:07] Christi Esterle: Yeah. And it's, you know, Patrick Page, you know, he's got three words, but he invests them, you know, with so much, you know, passion and at the same time, kind of this creepy possessiveness. And you're like, automatically, okay, that's the character right there.

[30:24] Andrew Clark: Everybody looked and everybody saw it was the same man they'd been singing about.

[30:30] Christi Esterle: You're early.

[30:32] Andrew Clark: I missed you.

[30:35] Christi Esterle: It's perfect.

[30:36] Andrew Clark: It is.

[30:37] Christi Esterle: Yeah. Patrick Page is a standup guy, seeming to be a wonderful human being and a fantastic performer. And the first I heard of him was Spider-Man. And then like, he wasn't really given the chance to like, get his muscles, like to stretch. Then you see him as Frollo and it's like, oh, oh my gosh, like, show me more, sir. And now here it's like, bringing it all to the table.

[31:01] Andrew Clark: Oh yeah.

[31:02] Christi Esterle: Fantastic.

[31:02] Andrew Clark: He's come a long way from playing piano on a rooftop.

[31:06] Christi Esterle: That he has. But yeah, if anyone out there has not listened to the studio cast of Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, you've got to do that because, you know, we all love Tony Jay as Frollo, but Patrick Page is just all that in a bag of chips.

[31:21] Andrew Clark: Patrick Page is probably the better Frollo because at least he could hit notes.

[31:29] Christi Esterle: May you rest in peace, Tony Jay. But the other thing I really like about this that is added in the more recent productions is the connection between Hades and Eurydice to set up like the conflict that they will have later on in the story.

[31:43] Andrew Clark: Yeah, they kind of have this moment where they look at each other before Hermes, you know, blows the whistle and yells all aboard. And you're kind of like, okay, this is going to get this is not going to lead anywhere good.

[31:55] Christi Esterle: Whereas he's just kind of using her as a tool to make Persephone jealous or at least kind of find a tool to like, get her like, down there as a replacement, maybe.

[32:06] Andrew Clark: Right.

[32:06] Christi Esterle: Hard to quite know exactly why he's after Eurydice.

[32:10] Andrew Clark: I think, you know, he's so desperate to find somebody impressed by this empire that he's built that he, you know, goes looking for somebody who, in his own words, can appreciate a gilded cage.

[32:23] Christi Esterle: And then he finds somebody who is, you know, cold and desperate and, you know, ready to make a deal with the devil in, you know, both the literal and figurative sense.

[32:33] Andrew Clark: And he's like, he even calls her a songbird, which we keep in cages. And he calls her a canary in a mine, which is a really creepy metaphor, if you understand what canaries and mines were used for.

[32:46] Christi Esterle: When they die, you leave the mine.

[32:48] Andrew Clark: Essentially, yeah, they were there to be the first warning if the gases got too bad.

[32:54] Christi Esterle: One of my first canaries died in a mine. So I have a real attachment to the show.

[33:00] Andrew Clark: Did you make a short film about it?

[33:15] Christi Esterle: All right, let's talk about Wait For Me, which is basically the theme of the entire story.

[33:22] Andrew Clark: I like this song a lot, too.

[33:26] Christi Esterle: Is there a bad song in the entire show? Just out of curiosity?

[33:29] Andrew Clark: I'm not a very huge fan of Flowers, but it's a very solid score all the way around.

[33:34] Christi Esterle: I think there's some songs that are definitely like filler songs, I would say.

[33:38] Andrew Clark: I don't know. When you have such a tight studio album, like that is an issue that might pop up.

[33:44] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[33:45] Andrew Clark: I don't think there's anything that I would say is bad.

[33:48] Christi Esterle: I've heard some people say that this has been stretched out too much, that it could easily be a one act show.

[33:54] Andrew Clark: And I can kind of see that in some places.

[33:57] Christi Esterle: But I absolutely love the way they expanded Wait For Me from the original and gives Orpheus this additional conclusion, you know, where he says, I'm not alone, I can hear the rock singing to me. And that's where we get, you know, like the fantastic choreography and lighting with the lamps swinging around. And it makes for a really good effect there.

[34:19] Andrew Clark: So, yeah, you can argue about the additions pretty much anywhere else. But that's a great one.

[34:49] Christi Esterle: I guess we should probably talk about why we build the walls.

[34:52] Andrew Clark: Yes, I was going to say, we're going to get to the act one finale here, why we build the wall.

[34:56] Christi Esterle: And this is one thing that I think we should restate, even though I think it's been said several times. This was written in 2010.

[35:05] Andrew Clark: So, you know, you hear like this big tycoon talking about building a wall to keep out the enemy for freedom and, you know, keep away poverty. And that draws some obvious parallels in our current climate.

[35:19] Christi Esterle: But, you know, it's kind of something that kind of happened after the fact. I feel like if it was written for that, it would probably somewhat lessen the impact because then it's just a purely political statement.

[35:29] Andrew Clark: But it obviously is not.

[35:31] Christi Esterle: So, no, that's not the case.

[35:34] Andrew Clark: Yeah, she kind of meant it in a more general sense of, you know, the walls we build to, you know, keep other people out and, you know, kind of protect our little kingdoms all around us.

[35:48] Christi Esterle: So it's kind of an emotional wall than a literal wall.

[35:51] Andrew Clark: Yes, especially in the case of Hades, I think, where he's building it to keep in the person he loves, basically not really to keep things out, I don't think.

[36:01] Christi Esterle: So it's not really a good parallel.

[36:03] Andrew Clark: But if you just listen to it on a very basic level, then, yes, Donald Trump exists.

[36:09] Christi Esterle: Donald Trump is trying to keep Melania from escaping.

[36:12] Andrew Clark: So he's got to build the wall.

[36:13] Christi Esterle: You know, I wouldn't be surprised.

[36:15] Andrew Clark: But Hades is a much more sympathetic character than that.

[36:19] Christi Esterle: So that is true.

[36:21] Andrew Clark: Well, Hades isn't a buffoon.

[36:23] Christi Esterle: Well, yeah, that's what I said initially.

[36:25] Andrew Clark: Yeah.

[36:26] Christi Esterle: Yeah, he's a lot smarter.

[36:27] Andrew Clark: He's a lot smarter as well.

[36:29] Christi Esterle: Pretty much.

[36:32] Andrew Clark: Has Hadestown ever gone bankrupt?

[36:34] Christi Esterle: As far as we know, no.

[36:37] Andrew Clark: Has it ever been sued when he tried Hades University?

[36:41] Christi Esterle: He doesn't eat his steaks.

[36:46] Andrew Clark: Well done with ketchup, either.

[36:48] Christi Esterle: Well done with ketchup.

[36:50] Andrew Clark: Oh, no.

[36:52] Christi Esterle: I got sunshine up on the show.

[36:56] Andrew Clark: Allow me to introduce myself, brother.

[37:00] Christi Esterle: What's my name?

[37:02] Andrew Clark: My name is Our Lady of the Underground.

[37:07] Christi Esterle: Brother, what's my name?

[37:08] Andrew Clark: So can we talk about Our Lady of the Underground and how it is like one of the best act two openings ever?

[37:12] Christi Esterle: We can. Again, Amber Gray is all things beautiful. And I love, you know, how she kind of opens this up with I don't know about you.

[37:23] Andrew Clark: I can't do it.

[37:24] Christi Esterle: But, you know, she has I I can I cannot do I don't know about you, boy.

[37:30] Andrew Clark: There you go.

[37:30] Christi Esterle: That's it.

[37:32] Andrew Clark: And she just comes in already sounding like at least two sheets to the wind, but in a very good way.

[37:39] Christi Esterle: And it's just a great introduction.

[37:42] Andrew Clark: I don't know about you, boys.

[37:44] Christi Esterle: And again, I like that they've kind of adapted the Catholic Our Lady for this Greek mythical character.

[37:50] Andrew Clark: And also I talk about musical theater structure way too much on this goddamn podcast.

[37:56] Christi Esterle: Stop it.

[37:57] Andrew Clark: Um, musical theater by nature, the first song in act two basically shouldn't have anything to do with the plot.

[38:06] Christi Esterle: It shouldn't push the story forward.

[38:07] Andrew Clark: It's a time when everyone should be sitting the hell down and fun, basically, like Hamilton makes a joke out of this by turning into like, what did I miss?

[38:16] Christi Esterle: Which is what every audience member asks as soon as they sit down.

[38:20] Andrew Clark: So this one is the perfect one where it is both fun character building and you don't really miss a ton if you like miss this song, but you're missing a lot of fun.

[38:30] Christi Esterle: If you do not missing the plot, but you're missing the names of the puppets are missing this song.

[38:36] Andrew Clark: You take them before the show, not in the middle.

[38:41] Christi Esterle: Why are musicals with cheese theater going kit?

[38:45] Andrew Clark: It includes a laxatives that you can use right before.

[38:49] Christi Esterle: Yeah, but yeah, I love how she has to speak as he only instead of, you know, like a legal booze, she's kind of bringing in, you know, like the things from nature, the sun and the rain and the sky and moonshine and literal moonshine as in the light of the moon.

[39:05] Andrew Clark: I think that's a neat way of reinterpreting that because that's what the people in the underworld want need and want the most.

[39:12] Christi Esterle: And there's also a reference to pay-per-view, which is a little weird, but also adds to like the don't don't matter what time it takes place in.

[39:19] Andrew Clark: Yeah, there's also that little element of, you know, kind of this kind of almost like a little peep show that she's got going on as, you know, gross as that sounds.

[39:30] Christi Esterle: But yeah, she, you know, tells them, look, look into the crack in the wall to, you know, see the moon and the sky.

[39:37] Andrew Clark: And it, you know, it's kind of almost got this racy element to it.

[39:44] Christi Esterle: Moonshine is just rebranded sunshine.

[39:46] Andrew Clark: It's just a corporate scheme.

[39:50] Christi Esterle: It's racy without being vulgar, which is very good to ride.

[39:57] Andrew Clark: Exactly.

[39:57] Christi Esterle: See, this act two is where I feel a lot of like that inflation of the story come into play, like in act one, it's like, okay, we need to build up these characters. But here, it really like the.

[40:10] Christi Esterle: Orpheus's feeling is really difficult to feel emotionally connected to.

[40:14] Jess McAnally: How many reprises do we have in this second part here?

[40:17] Christi Esterle: A lot. But there's some things like the chant reprise, which I really love. And also, you know, the final reprise of Epic, which brings things full circle, because that is the song that Orpheus is working on. And, you know, he presents it in its more or less completed form to Hades.

[40:36] Jess McAnally: And Hades sues him for stealing his intellectual property.

[40:42] Christi Esterle: Not exactly. He could have.

[40:45] Jess McAnally: Eurydice sues him for writing a story too close to reality.

[40:52] Christi Esterle: And he has to change the song, If I Could Be in Love with Someone Like You, to Shooks the Goddess, and it's a mess.

[40:59] Jess McAnally: It's a big mess. Where did you get that melody?

[41:02] Christi Esterle: I really like the relationship that Hades has with Orpheus in the very few scenes they have together. I love the parallel between the two characters, because these are ultimately two guys who have their, who have the women in their lives telling them, this is what I need from you. And they are, you know, off doing something else.

[41:23] Jess McAnally: Completely, yeah, that's pushing them away.

[41:25] Christi Esterle: I think that, like, let's say that Hades and Persephone weren't there in the show, and it was just an Orpheus and Eurydice straight story. It doesn't work. You have to have that reflecting couple. Like, it's so strange that in a story that tells the Orpheus and Eurydice story, they are the secondary couple.

[41:41] Jess McAnally: They are the 8-year-old Annie.

[41:43] Christi Esterle: Essentially. But yeah, I think, you know, you have, you know, the younger, innocent couple, and then you kind of have the older, more cynical couple, and how they react to each other and, you know, reflect each other's circumstances, I think is really where the heart of the story is.

[42:00] Jess McAnally: And it's also kind of like a mirror image of what they could be, like what Orpheus and Eurydice might become if they don't figure their shit out.

[42:08] Christi Esterle: Yeah, it's, and that's almost explicitly stated in the bargain that Hades offers them, because he, you know, you know, he expects Orpheus to give in to doubt and mistrust and fear, because those are Hades' own weaknesses. That's what he has been fighting this whole time, is the doubt and mistrust and the fear that Persephone is not going to be there when he turns around.

[42:34] Jess McAnally: Which Orpheus eventually proves true.

[42:35] Christi Esterle: Why did he turn around?

[42:38] Jess McAnally: I don't know. The bargain doesn't make a huge amount of sense. There's no upside to turning around.

[42:43] Christi Esterle: You could just walk the whole way and then wait and then turn around and...

[42:47] Jess McAnally: How long is that walk, though?

[42:49] Christi Esterle: If it's three days, like, I don't...

[42:52] Jess McAnally: It's a very long walk. That would just be difficult in a, like, how do I physically prevent myself from turning around kind of way.

[43:02] Christi Esterle: Yeah, you're kind of getting into, okay, so what happens if she needs to stop or I need to stop? Do we kind of signal each other? Does she throw a rock at the back of my head? What are we doing here?

[43:15] Jess McAnally: Like, my first question is, can I communicate with her? Like, can I be like, hey, Eurydice, three feet, right? And she's like, yes. Are you still there? Yes.

[43:30] Christi Esterle: Communication is important in a relationship. Again, Orpheus is a bit of a space case, so I think I can see where he would not be asking the important questions.

[43:36] Jess McAnally: Can they hold hands? Or can she, like, put her hands on his shoulders?

[43:40] Christi Esterle: Yeah, they do the cha-cha-cha all the way up.

[43:44] Jess McAnally: Again, I don't think they're supposed to, but again, it is not specifically stated. And that's one of those things you have to keep in mind when you're making these kind of bargains. You have to be very literal about it.

[43:52] Christi Esterle: It's like, okay, I can't look at her, but, you know, maybe I can have this rope that we can tug on each other, or we can sit, talk, or...

[44:02] Jess McAnally: And I'll have a mirror with me?

[44:05] Christi Esterle: Yeah, can she stomp her feet really loud? And, like, does he accidentally turn around at the end and, like, see her before she got all the way up? Is that what happened? Or did he actually turn around because he was doubting it?

[44:17] Jess McAnally: I think, you know, I think it kind of goes with the version where he gets to the threshold of the living world, and then, you know, he can't wait another second and turns around, but they're not all the way out yet.

[44:31] Christi Esterle: So why would he do that?

[44:33] Jess McAnally: Because he's dumping the gun on it.

[44:37] Christi Esterle: He's a dummy. It's almost like an accidental thing, where it's like, does that really count? Like, he made it all the way to the top, like, that doesn't count?

[44:47] Jess McAnally: I'm not gonna lie. Another issue I have with this is the fact that since we spent so much time in Hadestown, it is just kind of, like, weird, like, not quite post-apocalyptic, like, just town. It's hard to, like, be like, oh, I'm so sad to see her go back to that place where Persephone comes and will probably take care of her quite a bit.

[45:07] Christi Esterle: Why doesn't Orpheus just go back, too?

[45:09] Jess McAnally: I mean...

[45:10] Christi Esterle: There's not, but...

[45:10] Jess McAnally: Is there a rule against that?

[45:12] Christi Esterle: Um, I think, you know, he probably wouldn't last 30 seconds there, let's be honest. In the original Greek myth, you know, he kind of falls into this depression after, you know, he loses Eurydice for the second time, and he eventually gets torn apart by some women who are followers of Dionysus, who are, you know, drunk and crazy.

[45:31] Jess McAnally: Dionysus is pretty cool. Like, if Andrew took the Greek god test, like, he would be Dionysus. I can see it right now.

[45:38] Christi Esterle: I'm not sure if this translates well, but in the original Greek myth, he had to, like, play his lute all the way out of there, as well.

[45:44] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I think he might have had to do that. He also had to play his lute all the way down, because that was pretty much the only way he was getting through, because that was how, you know, Cerberus, you know, kind of lays down and lets him pass, and how Charon, you know, lets him on the boat, and, you know, all the, you know, gateways and guards of the Underworld just kind of let him pass.

[46:07] Christi Esterle: And that's hand-waved away in this musical.

[46:10] Jess McAnally: They just let me go!

[46:11] Christi Esterle: How come Chiron wasn't, wasn't the, uh, or Charon, or, how was he pronounced? Why was he not the conductor of the train?

[46:16] Jess McAnally: Probably would have been an extra character that the musical didn't need, but I think that's my personal headcanon now. He's the engineer.

[46:22] Christi Esterle: Now, how do we all think about the ending? Because it is bittersweet, but also triumphant, in a way.

[46:24] Jess McAnally: It is.

[46:29] Christi Esterle: I like to think that, you know, Orpheus did kind of, you know, do what he set out to do in bringing back the spring, and kind of restored the natural order by kind of getting, um, Hades and Persephone to give their relationship another shot, and, you know, not keep dragging her down to the Underworld at the first opportunity.

[46:49] Jess McAnally: Yeah, but at the same time, he doesn't get his happy ending.

[46:53] Christi Esterle: I like that they start singing the, the opening song again. I also, I know this is, like, calling back to, like, the beginning again, and that's probably not good for structure-wise, but another thing I really like is how they kind of play with your expectations with that opening number. And it's like, instead of saying, it's a sad song, like, it's a song about, it, like, there's a rhyme that sets it up for you to think that it's, like, gonna rhyme with dies, but instead they change it to tries.

[47:11] Jess McAnally: Right.

[47:11] Christi Esterle: It's a song about, story about someone who tries, which sets up this ending very, very, very well.

[47:26] Jess McAnally: Yeah, and it also, you know, comes back full circle, where he says, you know, we tell the story as if it might come out this time, which I think, you know, is kind of the function of the story, is kind of like saying, okay, you know, this is a sad story, but we can learn from it, and we can try again, and we can hopefully not make the, keep not, not keep making these same mistakes.

[47:50] Christi Esterle: Learn from the past, as opposed to repeating.

[47:52] Jess McAnally: Exactly. Now, who gets the worst tragedy, Orpheus to Eurydice at the end?

[47:57] Christi Esterle: Eurydice.

[47:57] Jess McAnally: Really?

[47:59] Christi Esterle: Depends how bad Hadestown is.

[48:01] Jess McAnally: Well, yeah, well, I guess that is true, and if it does get better after Orpheus leaves, which, you know, is a possibility, but she gets screwed over because he messed up.

[48:13] Christi Esterle: But really, it's all Hades' fault in the end.

[48:14] Jess McAnally: Well, she messed up first.

[48:16] Christi Esterle: She did mess up first, to be fair.

[48:18] Jess McAnally: Well, that is true.

[48:19] Christi Esterle: That is true. So, yeah, it's probably kind of-

[48:22] Jess McAnally: Not to point fingers.

[48:24] Christi Esterle: It's probably kind of a wash between them then, yeah.

[48:27] Jess McAnally: But as they said, he's someone who tries.

[48:30] Christi Esterle: I tried, Eurydice!

[48:33] Jess McAnally: Should have tried harder.

[48:34] Christi Esterle: One job, Orpheus!

[48:35] Jess McAnally: You had one job!

[48:36] Christi Esterle: You should have just kept your eyes closed.

[48:38] Jess McAnally: I mean, come on. Blindfold, that's what he needed.

[48:40] Christi Esterle: Blinded yourself, Oedipus style.

[48:43] Jess McAnally: Bird box your way out of there, bitch!

[48:44] Christi Esterle: He's blind, doubt comes in, and leaves a trace of vinegar and turpentine.

[49:00] Jess McAnally: Guys, we're reaching the end of the show. What is your overall thoughts on Hadestown? Christy, you go first.

[49:06] Christi Esterle: It is the best musical of the season, and I will riot if it does not win the Tony.

[49:09] Jess McAnally: People think that Tootsie's the frontrunner, though.

[49:12] Christi Esterle: I've heard-

[49:13] Jess McAnally: Like a Tootsie roll?

[49:14] Christi Esterle: No, as in like the 80s comedy with Dustin Hoffman, where he dresses like a girl. I've heard people say Tootsie is the frontrunner. I've heard people say this is the frontrunner. I've heard people say The Prom is the frontrunner. But honestly, I think this is the best musical of the year, so.

[49:27] Jess McAnally: And Andrew, what are your thoughts?

[49:29] Andrew: I thought it was very good. And I would really recommend it. I don't know the other shows of the season, so I can't say if it's the best one or not. But I liked it a lot.

[49:44] Jess McAnally: How does it compare to the other things I've made you watch on this show?

[49:48] Andrew: It's definitely in the top five. And don't make me list five, because I'm not going to be able to. But it's definitely in the top five.

[49:55] Jess McAnally: We're pushing 50 episodes now, so.

[49:59] Andrew: I know, I can't believe I've watched so many musicals.

[50:03] Jess McAnally: And there are so many more to watch.

[50:04] Andrew: Yeah, there is.

[50:06] Christi Esterle: Yeah, there is.

[50:10] Jess McAnally: Andrew, what is your cheese rating?

[50:13] Andrew: I'm going to give it a feta cheese.

[50:16] Jess McAnally: Why?

[50:17] Andrew: Because it's a good Greek cheese.

[50:19] Christi Esterle: OK, what about you, Christy?

[50:20] Christi Esterle: I swear to God, I was going to rate it feta cheese, too, because obviously it's Greek. It's got this, you know, kind of good homey feel to it. And, you know, there are probably a few people who are probably not who are probably going to find it, you know, too strong for their tastes. But I find it very excellent and good food.

[50:41] Jess McAnally: So, well, mine is so main train because it has the word train in it.

[50:47] Christi Esterle: Jesus Christ, Jess.

[50:52] Jess McAnally: You could have picked something like New Orleans or something like that.

[50:56] Christi Esterle: To counter the Greek cheese we did. But instead, you just pick one that has train in the name.

[51:03] Jess McAnally: Oh, it's got a train in it.

[51:08] Christi Esterle: Can you believe this guy? Like, for real, this is our host.

[51:12] Jess McAnally: Well, you know what I think about that, Andrew? You're about to shill.

[51:15] Christi Esterle: He's about to shill.

[51:17] Jess McAnally: Guys, shill away.

[51:20] Andrew: I think that today's show is brought to you by Audible. Audible is offering our listeners a free audiobook with a 30 day free trial membership. Just go to AudibleTrial.com slash Musicals with Cheese and browse the unmatched selection of audio programs. Download a title free and start listening. It's that easy. Go to AudibleTrial.com slash Musicals with Cheese.

[51:41] Christi Esterle: Christy, I'm so glad you came on. I'm sure you've got a lot of things you want to promote. So go ahead and promote them.

[51:47] Christi Esterle: Main thing is MusicalHell.com where you can find all my videos. You can also look up Musical Hell on YouTube. I do my reviews of terrible musicals and I also do Know the Score and At the Source, which are some kind of slightly less deep dives on better musicals.

[52:02] Jess McAnally: I love that show. I highly recommend it. It's good watching.

[52:05] Christi Esterle: Thank you for coming on again.

[52:06] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it's always great having me on.

[52:09] Christi Esterle: Love being here. What did we talk about the first time?

[52:11] Jess McAnally: We talked about the Shazam musical, right?

[52:14] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[52:15] Jess McAnally: Shazam the musical.

[52:19] Christi Esterle: I brought up Chuck with Cheese and y'all both looked at me like I was a fucking idiot.

[52:23] Jess McAnally: Right. And now you bring up the train cheese that no one's ever heard of, Jess.

[52:29] Andrew: Well, Andrew has tried chocolate cheese since then.

[52:32] Christi Esterle: Oh yeah.

[52:33] Andrew: If you wanted a conclusion on that, it tastes like fudge. That's about it.

[52:39] Christi Esterle: Okay. If you were waiting on the edge of your seat for that.

[52:43] Jess McAnally: Either way, thank you guys for listening. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, at Musicals with Cheese. Our Twitter is at Cheesy Musical. Support us on Patreon at Musicals with Cheese. Our Instagram is also Musicals with Cheese, as well as our YouTube page. Send us an email at MusicalTheatreLives at gmail.com. Tell us whether you love us, hate us, all of the above. Our title card is created by Jolene Casco. Follow her on Instagram at Jolene Casco.

[53:09] Christi Esterle: Anything else you guys want to say before we wrap this on up?

[53:12] Jess McAnally: Thank you and have a good evening.

[53:13] Andrew: Thank you and have a good morning.

[53:15] Christi Esterle: If you're listening to this in the morning instead.

[53:17] Jess McAnally: Whatever time of day you're listening to and have a good one.

[53:19] Christi Esterle: And have a great afternoon.

[53:21] Andrew: And in case I don't see you.