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[1:03] Andrew DeWolf: Which was a fantastic show. I don't know if our commentary is good, but the show was really good.

[1:07] Jesse McAnally: Oh my god.

[1:11] Andrew DeWolf: It's just me getting angry that Andrew's enjoying himself.

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[1:35] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, one more thing. Yes. In the description of all of our episodes, there is a link to Amazon. If you click that link and buy something, we will receive a portion of whatever you spent. That doesn't cost you any extra. So if you want to give us money in that way. Um. Almost everyone in this listening to this right now has their phone in their hands. So they should use it to go and tell a friend to listen to our show. Send it to a friend and say one thing that you love about it. And the reason why other people should listen.

[2:01] Jesse McAnally: Let's start the actual show. Right, Jess?

[2:04] Andrew DeWolf: Let's go.

[2:12] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[2:14] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[2:15] Jesse McAnally: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater. And Andrew, we have an incredible guest today.

[2:23] Andrew DeWolf: We have a musical guest.

[2:24] Jesse McAnally: We have musical theater historian, teacher, performer and creator of web series Stealing Focus, Emily Clark.

[2:31] Emily Clark: Hey, howdy.

[2:34] Jesse McAnally: How are you going to teach us anything? I can't wait to actually learn something on this show.

[2:38] Emily Clark: Oh, y'all. I'm from SoCal. I don't know why I'm doing the boys. It sounds more like a Tennessee, Oklahoma kind of accent.

[2:45] Emily Clark: They say we belong to the land.

[2:48] Emily Clark: And the land we belong to is grand. So I think we've blown our load a little bit on this. But Emily, what are we talking about today?

[2:54] Emily Clark: So we're talking about Oklahoma with an exclamation point. You must always remember the exclamation point. It's important. Stylization is important.

[3:05] Emily Clark: Yeah, by Rodgers and Hammerstein. There's a bright golden haze on the meadow.

[3:11] Emily Clark: There's a bright golden haze on the meadow.

[3:16] Emily Clark: The corn is as high as an elephant's eye.

[3:22] Emily Clark: And it looks like it's climbing clear up to the sky.

[3:30] Emily Clark: Oh, what a beautiful morning.

[3:35] Emily Clark: Oh, what a beautiful day.

[3:38] Emily Clark: Oh, what a beautiful day.

[3:40] Emily Clark: I got a beautiful feeling.

[3:44] Emily Clark: Everything's going my way.

[3:48] Emily Clark: Oklahoma is the first musical written by the team, composer Richard Rodgers and librettist Oscar Hammerstein II.

[3:55] Emily Clark: The musical is based on Lynne Rigg's 1931 play Green Grow the Lilac, set in farm country outside of the town of Claremore in Indian Territory in 1906.

[4:05] Emily Clark: It tells the story of a farm girl, Lori Williams, and her courtship to two rival suitors, cowboy Curly McClain and the sinister and frightening farmhand Jud Frye.

[4:14] Emily Clark: A secondary romance concerns a cowboy, Will Parker, and his flirtatious fiancée, Ado Annie.

[4:20] Emily Clark: The original Broadway production opened on March 31st in 1943.

[4:24] Emily Clark: It was a box office smash and ran for an unprecedented 2,212 performances, later enjoying an award-winning revival, national tours, foreign productions, and an Academy Award-winning 1955 film adaptation.

[4:42] Emily Clark: It has been a popular choice among school and community productions as well.

[4:47] Emily Clark: Rodgers and Hammerstein also won the Pulitzer Prize for Oklahoma in 1944, which is highly unprecedented.

[4:51] Jesse McAnally: They didn't win the Pulitzer Prize for Oklahoma.

[4:56] Emily Clark: They won a special Pulitzer Prize, Jess.

[4:58] Jesse McAnally: Oh.

[4:59] Emily Clark: A special Pulitzer Prize for Oklahoma.

[5:01] Emily Clark: They won the Pulitzer for South Pacific.

[5:04] Jesse McAnally: I didn't know that.

[5:05] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't know that either, but now...

[5:08] Jesse McAnally: We've already learned something, Jess. This is why I'm here.

[5:10] Emily Clark: Now, Emily is significantly smarter than both Andrew and I combined, so I'm very interested to know what she has to say about Oklahoma.

[5:21] Emily Clark: Wow, thanks for that, Jess. Speak for yourself. I'm at least a know-it-all, let's say that, about stuff like that.

[5:28] Jesse McAnally: That's great. So tell us a little bit about your history with Oklahoma.

[5:32] Emily Clark: Well, okay, so this is a show I've never done. I've taught it a lot. I've taught students songs from it, and I've known about it since I was very young. My mom started a musical theater summer program when I was a kid, and our first year, it was a review of Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals.

[5:53] Emily Clark: So in the mid-90s, when most kids were listening to the Green Day album, I was like, I got to binge all the Rodgers and Hammerstein classics. So I became obsessed with all those shows, and Oklahoma has always been very interesting to me because a lot of people, you know, when I bring it up, they give the, Ugh, Oklahoma, you know, they turn their nose up at it and they sneer. They go, I hate that show, because they probably did some crappy-

[6:18] Jesse McAnally: More like Ug-lah-homa.

[6:19] Emily Clark: Oh my god, am I right? It's because they probably remember some horrible high school production they did, and a lot of the really great stuff about the show tends to go over people's heads, or the fact that it is so important in the history of musical theater. It kind of changed the game in terms of how we write musicals. So I've always liked to champion that, and then ever since the revival, Oklahoma's kind of been cool again.

[6:46] Emily Clark: So, you know, they didn't change a single word in that revival, so I've been proven right. It's a good show. Damn it. But they added a few things, like assless chaps.

[6:57] Jesse McAnally: Oh, they added a lot of things, but none of the text is changed, which is very exciting. Now, Andrew, this is your first time experiencing Oklahoma, and I sent you the more recent production, the cast album, as well as the 1999 Hugh Jackman video. What did you think of all that?

[7:13] Andrew DeWolf: Oh yeah, the Hugh Jackman one. Well, I like most of the songs, and I like some of the story stuff, but it feels very wrong. I don't know, it seems like, especially at the beginning, it kind of drags. There's not a lot that happens early on, but once it gets going, it's pretty good.

[7:32] Jesse McAnally: I'm willing to agree with both of you in a way. I think it's a very important piece in the grand scheme of musical theater history, but I don't think it has aged nearly that well, and I don't even think it is Rodgers and Hammerstein's best work, let alone one of the greats of musical theater.

[7:48] Emily Clark: You don't think it's one of the greats of musical theater?

[7:53] Jesse McAnally: I would not rank this among the greats of musical theater, sadly enough. It is historical, it is important, but I do not think it has aged well. I think things, even something like Carousel, as problematic as that is, has aged a little better than this.

[8:07] Emily Clark: Ooh, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that, woof.

[8:10] Jesse McAnally: And I completely understand why everyone-

[8:13] Emily Clark: Oh, fight, fight, fight!

[8:14] Jesse McAnally: No, don't fight it! This is an old argument, though. Jess, what do you think didn't age well?

[8:19] Emily Clark: I think a lot of the things from the original musical comedies are still here, and they're just very blatant, and they stand out like a sore thumb, as well as the musical theater structure that is basically defined in this is not developed into the way that we're used to, especially when we get to things like Sound of Music, Carousel, South Pacific, and all that.

[8:40] Emily Clark: Well, can I give you a little history lesson right now of why-

[8:45] Jesse McAnally: I'm down, let's go.

[8:47] Emily Clark: Okay, so let me take y'all back. Let me take you back to pre-1943. So, in fact, I'm gonna take you back even earlier to 1927, with a little musical called Show Boat. And Show Boat was written by Jerome Kern and our buddy Oscar Hammerstein II. He wrote the lyrics.

[9:04] Emily Clark: Now, before Show Boat, pretty much musicals were not what we think of them today. They were very much in the style of musical reviews, almost.

[9:11] Emily Clark: Like a vaudeville style.

[9:18] Emily Clark: Exactly, like vaudeville. Sometimes there was like a story. A lot of times it was like shenanigans, song, shenanigans, song, loosely connected. And a lot of the great musical theater composers that we think of, like the Gershwins or Irving Berlin, wrote musicals in that style. Because this was before rock and roll. So pop music was essentially musical theater music, was show tunes.

[9:45] Emily Clark: And you wouldn't listen to stuff on the radio. You'd buy sheet music and sit around the family piano and sing these songs. So these shows were showcases for the hits. So Richard Rodgers had been writing with a guy named Lorenz Hart, Larry Hart, Rodgers and Hart. And they wrote a bunch of musicals you've probably heard of, and a bunch of standards you've probably heard of. And then Oscar Hammerstein writes the show Show Boat.

[10:08] Emily Clark: And Show Boat was the first musical that kind of took the, well, we used to call them, they used to call them musical comedies. But you couldn't really call Show Boat a musical comedy. It deals with very serious subject matter. It has an integrated cast. It's very deep.

[10:26] Emily Clark: So we get to the 1940s. And Hammerstein's been kind of washed up for a bit. You know, he hasn't had a hit in a while. And Richard Rodgers' partner, Larry Hart, he is in the closet. He's an alcoholic. He's coming to the end of his life. He's like drinking himself to death. So Rodgers is like, okay, I got to move on.

[10:45] Emily Clark: So these two kind of titans at the height, well, kind of like who had all these decades of experience decide, hey, let's team up and let's write this show. And they wrote the very first show where the songs follow the story. If you take the songs out of, let's say, a show like Anything Goes, the story still makes sense. It's still like shenanigans. And then it's like, you're the top. And it doesn't add anything to the story, but it's fun.

[11:15] Emily Clark: But with Oklahoma, it was the first time you had the songs driving character development, songs driving the story. It was the very first time instead of just like a tap break, you know, where a bunch of people do some amazing dancing, they had dance as an integrated storytelling element.

[11:32] Emily Clark: So, you know, the Dream Ballet by Agnes de Mille, the top of the, sorry, the end of the first act. So all these things that we kind of take for granted now were positively revolutionary at the time. And a lot of composers were super skeptical about it. They called them situation shows. Like Irving Berlin was like, I don't trust this. Whatever, I'm gonna write it and you get your gun.

[11:54] Emily Clark: So, and then meanwhile, like younger generations of composers like Comden and Green and, you know, Bernstein were looking at this Oklahoma and were like, holy crap. It was like Hamilton to them. It was like, or Hair, you know, it's a show that completely redefines the genre. And then everything that came after it, it kind of is defined by it.

[12:17] Emily Clark: So Rodgers and Hammerstein were able to kind of up themselves with each musical they wrote, with the exception of some crappy ones we don't talk about. But like Oklahoma, you know, if it is the weakest of their catalog, it's for a reason. It's because with each one, they push the envelope a little bit more, a little bit more. And arguably Sound of Music was, well, not arguably, the critics were like, it's cheesy.

[12:42] Emily Clark: It's like, what is this? These are the guys who wrote South Pacific. Now they're giving us this like happy little story. I know. And then it was the biggest hit they ever had. So, you know, and then Hammerstein died right as it came out. He died in like 1959. So he didn't even get to deal with the film. That's a tangent. Anyway, so it's interesting that you're like, it's kind of like these old musicals. It's the structure of these old musicals, which it is, but like there are older musicals before that, that we don't even do anymore because Oklahoma just completely changed the game and changed the structure. And there are also things about it that I like that can, you know, can vary from production to production.

You know, I have always liked, or I hate it when people don't get that Ado Annie is like a sex positive fun character. She just likes to have sex. She likes to bone. And I like that she likes to bone. And in the end, she kind of gets the final say on it. And that's kind of crazy in the forties where you had, you know, women weren't exactly celebrated like that on stage. And it can come down to direction in a lot of ways. But the revival that I saw with Ali Stroker, she was like, oh my God, she was such a hit. She was like a little Dolly Parton. She was just like, whatever, like having a rip roaring good time with all the cute boys on stage. And I was like, yeah, this is a blast. So it's an important musical in our history and it's important to know about.

And I think the revival really helps to kind of make some of it relevant. You know, they cut a lot of, I guess what you would say, trim a lot of the fat out of the revival. It's not quite as long because there aren't huge extended dance numbers. There's like a cast of like 10 instead of like 40. The Dream Ballet is insanely different. So there are different ways to do it. And I like that they mess with it because I feel like it's one of those things like almost like Shakespeare at this point is like, if you're going to do it, don't just do the same old thing. Let's try to deconstruct. Let's try to find out what was so exciting and relevant about it in the first place. And I think the revival does that pretty well. So yeah, that was your little history lesson.

[14:59] Emily Clark: And I'm inclined to agree with you on every single fact there. But the one thing that I do want to bring up that this was actually said to me in the one musical theater class I took in my undergrad when they brought up Oklahoma and they used a really interesting film comparison. They compared Rodgers and Hammerstein's Oklahoma to D.W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation, where yes, it did set up a lot of things that are now important for filmmaking and all that. And same for musical theater. But that does not mean that it should be as revered as some of the work that came after it. That's quite a strong comparison. I know I was equally as baffled. I wouldn't say it's like Birth of a Freaking Nation and like, but there's not really that much racy stuff in it.

I mean, there's like a little bit, but no, not at all. There's not at all. But, you know, I think it was more like in the time of, oh yeah, but the revival of the statement of things that we're taking from it. I understand. Yeah, sure. Sure. And you know what? You don't have to like Oklahoma. Like, you know, you can like what you like. And if a musical doesn't connect with, there's plenty of old musicals that I'm supposed to like. There's plenty of new musicals I'm supposed to like that I don't connect to. But that's the fun thing about musical theater history is to like kind of find these tentpole moments and see where kind of things shifted. Because it's so when I teach this class to students, it's almost insane to them that the structure of musicals were just so completely different than what we're used to today.

And at the time they were just like, well, this is what it is. This is entertainment. So it's just fascinating to me. And I like it. I think there's a lot of fun stuff in the show. And it's always great to, you know, there's a reason why high schools do it all the time. It's simple enough and it has a lot of parts. I do have a question about the new revival vocal. Yeah, because that has brought a lot of controversy to it. And I have not seen it yet. I do hope to see it one day.

[17:05] Emily Clark: Oh, it's so cool. It's so cool. But Andy Hammerstein, one of Oscar's descendants had this to say about it. And I'm curious, and it inspired me to make a video about it a little while ago. I abhorred it. It was an irresponsible travesty masquerading as experimental. Up is not down. Sadist Curly shoots sweet victim Judd in cold blood. I am utterly disgusted that Rodgers and Hammerstein lack the balls to stop this. I urge everyone to keep their money in their pockets on this one. Let it die the ignominious death it deserves.

[17:34] Jess McAnally: Oh, well, that's a yikes moment.

[17:42] Emily Clark: That is a yikes. I mean, it is. There was stuff about it that I didn't like for sure. There were heartfelt moments that I felt they kind of made really serious and somber and almost aloof where I felt like they didn't need to be. And there were a couple other moments like that. But I'm glad Oklahoma is finally, I don't know, I kind of like that it gets such a visceral response from someone because usually people are just like, oh, you know, this is like 20 little bit that show about cowboys or whatever. And, you know, I think, I don't know if Oscar Hammerstein would have liked it. I think he was all about pushing the envelope. He was, you know, a big old like liberal who wanted to change things and try new things.

So I certainly think he wouldn't be against it. You know, there was the most other notable production of Oklahoma I can think of in recent years was in Oregon a couple years ago. And they did a version where they changed the genders of a lot of the characters. And they got permission from Rodgers and Hammerstein from because Rodgers and Hammerstein owns the rights to their own stuff. So they got permission from it. All they had to do was change pronouns. And so I think Curly was a black woman. Lori was a white woman. Ado Annie was Ado Andy. Will was a black man and Ella was a trans woman. And they gave them the permission to do that. So I think even if, yeah, I mean, like he didn't like it. And I could definitely see why some people wouldn't like it, especially people who have a fondness for the original show and people who might have been alive when the original show came out.

But I don't know. I'm kind of like, let's burn it down. Let's try new stuff and see what sticks. Because there was a lot about the characters that I thought was new and interesting and I didn't realize before until I saw this. And I guess like with any art, it depends on the director and the direction. This is the direction they wanted to take it. I love that they have this small, they have like a maybe six to eight piece combo, like string combo, country combo on the stage playing all the music. And so while hearing the show with a lush orchestra is amazing, like hearing just really like kind of the down home stomp in your boots country stuff side of it was amazing. And it really got the audience going, especially when they sang the title song, when they sang Oklahoma.

And like the Dream Ballet is so weird. It's so completely the opposite of the intention. And I could kind of feel a lot of the older people around me kind of being like, what the fuck am I watching? Whereas I'm sitting there kind of like, yeah, kind of squinting going, OK, I don't know if I like this, but I'm intrigued by this. I'm curious.

[20:42] Emily Clark: What did they change about it? Because I haven't seen the OK, so the original. Is all it's it's Laurie going into her like basically like, I don't know what is it? Yeah, her. She goes into the cornfield of her mind. Yeah, she gets that elixir of Egypt from the peddler man and then she drinks it and then she has like a dream sequence. And it's basically her debating between Curly and Judd. And it kind of shows the romantic side of Curly, but also how like the Judd side is like scary and sexy. And then at the end, she kind of sees what could happen if she ends up with him. And it's full of these this really iconic choreography that, you know, just like kind of like Fosse choreography or Jerome Robbins, like that choreography is just so in musical theater, it's well known.

And so first of all, they ended the first act without the dream ballet. So she sings into a dream with you. And it was like intermission, have some cornbread and chili. And I was like, crap. Oh, my God. They cut out the dream ballet. OK, so we're really doing this. So then we come back for act two and the dream ballet is now at the top of act two. And instead of like a whole dream ensemble, it's one girl. She's only in this dance number. She is short. She's African-American. She's bald. She's wearing a big oversized T-shirt that says Dream Baby Dream. And she does. And it's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. So like where the original was using dance as a literal storytelling technique. This production is like, let's make it all interpretive.

So it's kind of like these opposite choices. And then the score, as far as I could tell, it's still the same entire music, the orchestration. But they do a bunch of crazy shit with it, like playing on top of each other, minor keys like it's crazy. She has a couple moments where she does the iconic choreography, but the rest is just so it's just like an interpretive dance. It's crazy. I still don't know if I like it, but I was a little avant-garde. I don't know. It was very avant-garde. So it was a choice. And I mean, it was a beautiful dance. It was interesting to watch. And there was a point being made with it. I'm not sure if I know what it is, but it was a choice. And, you know, if you've seen Oklahoma a million times, it definitely kind of throws you for a loop, which I think is why it's got to be the intention behind it.

And yeah, I'm trying to think what else. Oh, so one of the things that I really like that this production does, which I don't think a lot of productions have done before, is they really play up the fact that Lori is attracted to Judd. And that's scary for her because it's dangerous. And in other productions, I've always been like, I don't know, like, he seems really into her, but she seems not so into him. I don't know what her problem is. Like, obviously pick Curly, you know, why would you pick this guy? He's like a weird creepo. He's a super creepo. And this production kind of plays up that she is attracted to him. They do have like a few moments where you're kind of like, oh damn, oh shit.

And I really liked that. They went with a completely different casting choice for Judd. You know, usually it's like a Rod Steiger guy, like big beefy kind of guy. And this guy was very like delicate and skinny and like had kind of long hair. He looked like, I mean, he was like really handsome, but he looked like the kind of guy who would be on the internet all day, you know, just kind of like a little more of an outsider, like a little more. And that's kind of what this production does. They play up that he's an outsider and they don't trust him. And it's, you know, it's a choice. It's a neat way to kind of point out some of the elements of the show that have always been kind of like, I don't know how I feel about this.

Like, it makes it less of like, here's the villain and a little more complicated, which I thought was interesting. And again, some people are going to like it. Some people are not. I don't know. I thought, did you feel that our Curly was a sadist for murdering Judd?

[25:04] Jess McAnally: No.

[25:14] Emily Clark: Okay. So what? Judd shot first guys. Okay. Yeah. So, well, so let me explain. Cause he doesn't actually explain that very well. So what, what happens in that moment is, um, Judd, uh, comes back in.

[26:24] Emily Clark: No, Andrew, Judd is dead. Judd is dead. Poor Judd is dead. Poor Judd. But in the revival, what they do is they, again, they keep all the lines the same, but the intention the actors all have is, we're all gonna say this is what happened, because this is what happened, right? We are getting our story straight, right? So it's like, you saw him, you saw him, he, you know, fell on his own knife, you know, he ran it curly, you saw it. And so that I thought was like, really a cool take on that scene. And they do a really kind of cool effect, too, with that gunshot, like, it kind of comes out of the floor somehow. So, or he shoots Judd, and then this like, blood spray sprays all over Lori and Curly, and they're in their wedding whites, covered in blood. I'm not drenched, it's like a delicate spray. It's on the audience, too. Is this in 4D?

[27:22] Andrew: Yeah, it's kind of in the round. So no, it doesn't spray on anyone other than them. It's very, very strategic. And from where I was seated, I could only, I kind of just figured out it was a thing on the floor. It looked really cool. But yeah, it's a, again, it's like, wait, I don't know, taking this show that was never really that dark and kind of pulling the darker elements out of it, which I think is cool.

[27:45] Emily Clark: That's fucking so cool sounding. It's crazy.

[27:51] Andrew: About as far as they can go.

[28:00] Emily Clark: Oh, man. So I guess now I know we've talked about the revival, we've talked about the original a little bit. I just want to know what your general thoughts and other things you want to say about the content in general, like ignoring specific production?

[28:16] Andrew: Oh, just like, what do I like about Oklahoma?

[28:19] Emily Clark: Yeah, or dislike.

[28:20] Andrew: Or dislike. Okay, let's see. You know, it's so fun. This is one of the scripts I read with my musical theater history students. And it's always fun to read it with kids because we always get to the poor Judd is dead scene. And they always end up going, wow, Curly's kind of a dick, huh? Why are they? Why is he taunting this guy? And I'm like, yeah, that's what I thought, too. Like, he just goes in. He's like, you should kill yourself.

[28:52] Emily Clark: I know. And then in the revival, it makes it even sadder because Judd is so sad. But in the original productions, you're like, oh, Judd's a creep, whatever. But I always thought the lyrics in poor Judd is dead are so funny. I think no one really thinks about how funny they are. It's like, it's a shame that he won't keep, but it's summer and we're running out of ice. I think that's a really funny line. We want to cry over his corpse longer. Come on.

[29:21] Andrew: Let's see. I mean, one of my dream roles is Ado Annie. I'm not going to lie. I can't believe I haven't played her yet. But I really love all of her stuff with Will. It's funny when I watched the Hugh Jackman version, I kind of got really into the relationship with Laurie and Curly because like in the movie, in the original, they're just like cutesy cute. But in that '99 revival, that was the first time you kind of see the real playful nature between them. And they're very comfortable with each other. And their version of people will say we're in love is a lot more like, it's a lot more sarcastic, they're all, you know, all the lines are them kind of digging at each other, which added a whole new element to it, which I had never seen before.

[30:07] Emily Clark: I mean, you know, it's so funny. I already said it, but I really didn't realize like how, I don't know. Rodgers and Hammerstein are so in our DNA as Americans in a lot of ways, like even if you don't know the musical Oklahoma, you probably know the song Oklahoma, or at least like the first line of it or something. And so when I saw the revival where, excuse me, where I was at Circle in the Square, so everything's in the round, and just seeing the audience all around singing along every word and stomping and doing all the yippee eyes in the background, I was kind of like, see, this is kind of cool. Like this is some kind of thing that unifies us. And it's because this show has been around so long.

[30:51] Andrew: I also do really like the revival kind of is just kind of, I don't know, like, it's kind of going like this ain't your grandpa's Oklahoma, man.

[31:03] Emily Clark: I think that's literally a catchphrase.

[31:06] Andrew: Yeah, I know. And it's like pissing off the old folks. I'm kind of like, yeah, because musical theater can do that because the musical theater goes through phases like that. And so it was only a matter of time before the show got its inevitable, like, revamp, reboot. And there's elements about it that you can tweak as opposed to like Carousel, which don't get me wrong, I just did a video where I listed off the musicals that have made me cry. And Carousel always makes me cry. It's probably my favorite Rodgers and Hammerstein score. But like, what's the use of Wondering is a garbage song. And like the message at the end is garbage, even though there's parts of it that are so good. So you know,

[31:41] Emily Clark: It's like getting hit by an angel.

[31:44] Andrew: Yeah. And it's like, I guess he gets to go to heaven now because he, I don't know.

[31:50] Emily Clark: Of course he does. He beats his children.

[31:51] Andrew: He talked to her. Oh, Billy, Billy Bigelow. Yeah. So yeah, I like Oklahoma. But like when people, when people, I like to tell people that it's important. And if their opinion isn't changed, then that's totally fine. But I do like to go, you know, that it's a really important musical in musical theater history. So I think appreciating is good. Like, you don't have to appreciate the music, man. But, you know,

[32:16] Emily Clark: Of course you have to appreciate the music, man.

[32:22] Andrew: Hey, I effing love the music, man. Do not get me wrong. I love the music, man. But that's another one. That's one with Oklahoma. I always hear people going, oh, I hate that one. And I'm like, I don't know. I kind of like them both, but I get it. They're too cheesy for me.

[32:37] Emily Clark: Yeah, that's okay. Whoever hates the music man doesn't have a soul.

[32:40] Andrew: I mean, that's true. That is true. Hugh Jackman's about to do that one too.

[32:45] Emily Clark: See, but Hugh Jackman has a soul, so it's okay.

[32:48] Andrew: Hugh Jackman's going to ruin that almost as bad as Matthew Broderick did.

[32:51] Emily Clark: Oh my God. Oh, no. No one can ruin it that bad.

[32:58] Andrew: Matthew Broderick ruined it pretty badly.

[33:01] Emily Clark: Matthew Broderick definitely doesn't have a soul. Let's just be clear here.

[33:06] Andrew: And we keep putting him in musicals. Why?

[33:07] Emily Clark: He murdered like six people. Let's be fair.

[33:11] Andrew: Oh, Matt. Stop doing musicals.

[33:15] Emily Clark: Yes, please. You did the producers. That's all we needed from them.

[33:18] Andrew: That's all we needed. And you were so whiny.

[33:19] Emily Clark: Give us your card.

[33:22] Andrew: Give us your equity card. You're not allowed to be back on stage.

[33:25] Emily Clark: God, he was in that horrible A Christmas Story live too.

[33:28] Andrew: Oh, fuck. I forgot about that.

[33:30] Emily Clark: Wait, what?

[33:32] Andrew: Oh, it's already a really horrible musical, and he was the narrator character. So he'd pop out and be like, I'm Red Reiner BB gun.

[33:39] Emily Clark: Matthew Broderick.

[33:42] Andrew: I mean, I don't know. Christmas, whatever.

[33:46] Emily Clark: He forgot his lines a couple of times too.

[33:50] Andrew: Yes. He was not even trying.

[33:53] Emily Clark: No, no. He was so basic.

[33:57] Andrew: Oh my God. Fucking Matthew Broderick.

[34:01] Emily Clark: All right, Andrew, do you have anything that you want to say about Oklahoma before we move on to the next topic?

[34:04] Andrew: I like Ali. Ali Hakeem, I think is his name.

[34:09] Emily Clark: Ali Hakeem. Yeah.

[34:12] Andrew: I love him. He's the best character.

[34:16] Emily Clark: He's so funny. He is. He's so funny. He has the best one liners in the show.

[34:21] Andrew: Everything he does, like the part where he has to give like $100 just to not get married.

[34:25] Emily Clark: It's a reverse dowry.

[34:33] Andrew: Yeah. Will's like, dude, that's a lot of money too. I'm like, where did he even get all that money?

[34:40] Emily Clark: He's a peddler.

[34:41] Andrew: He scammed it out of people.

[34:43] Emily Clark: That's true. That's true.

[34:44] Andrew: He sells that Elixir of Egypt stuff.

[34:47] Emily Clark: Yeah, but that's like $4. Like he's, that's $100 he just dished out.

[34:51] Andrew: I know, right? And they're selling baskets for like two bits. It's crazy.

[34:56] Emily Clark: Like, oh my God.

[34:58] Andrew: I'll trade you my gun for that. That basket.

[35:01] Emily Clark: I know. I love that part.

[35:02] Andrew: Oh, in the revival, their hampers are all like blue igloo coolers.

[35:06] Emily Clark: And the whole show, everyone's cracking Bud Lights. It's amazing.

[35:11] Andrew: Man, finally a show I can get drunk at.

[35:13] Emily Clark: Bud Light is the most American drink that there is.

[35:16] Andrew: And those little igloo coolers. It's great.

[35:18] Emily Clark: Like the whole time I'm sitting there, I was just like, damn it. I really want one of those. Those look really good.

[35:22] Andrew: Is the revival like modern day? Like that was one thing I was a little confused on.

[35:26] Emily Clark: Yeah, it is. It's very much like now.

[35:29] Andrew: Everyone's just like, they're just like in jeans and flannels.

[35:36] Emily Clark: Ali Stroker as Ado Annie, she's got like, she's got like these little like butterfly clips in her hair and like little cutoffs and cowboy boots. And then Ali Hakim, he's just like kind of in like, like a really schlubby suit.

[35:49] Andrew: Like a real schlubby suit with like a loose tie.

[35:53] Emily Clark: And everyone else is just like, yeah, oh yeah. And everyone else is just kind of like basic cowboy.

[36:01] Andrew: Like actually working on the farm.

[36:05] Emily Clark: So are you team Ali Hakim or team Ali Hakim?

[36:07] Andrew: Well, that's what they say.

[36:09] Emily Clark: Well, it would be Ali Hakim, but everyone in the show, because they're all from Oklahoma, they are all like Ali Hakim.

[36:12] Andrew: Ali Hakim.

[36:16] Emily Clark: I know it should be like Ali Hakim, but, you know.

[36:20] Andrew: They say everything wrong in Oklahoma.

[36:22] Emily Clark: No, no.

[36:23] Andrew: I don't care. Give me your money.

[36:24] Emily Clark: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[36:26] Andrew: They say everything wrong and they spell everything how they say it.

[36:34] Emily Clark: Hi, guys. Today's show is brought to you by Audible.

[36:37] Andrew: Audible is offering our listeners a free audiobook with a 30 day free trial membership. Just go to audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese and browse the unmatched selection of audio programs. Download a title free and start listening. It's that easy. Go to audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese to get started today.

[36:53] Emily Clark: This week, I am recommending The Secret Life of the American Musical, How Broadway Shows Are Built by Jack Viertel, narrated by David Pitou. It is a great book that taught me a lot about musical theater structure and as well the things that Oklahoma set up as precedent and they would later go on to be the musical theater formula, more or less.

[37:15] Andrew: Yeah.

[37:15] Emily Clark: So to download your free audiobook today, go to audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese. Again, that's audibletrial.com slash musicals with cheese for your free audiobook.

[37:51] Andrew: Let's talk about the songs.

[38:07] Jess McAnally: That opening number is so strange, especially in the time period that this musical came out.

[38:12] Emily Clark: It was revolutionary. So that was a big, big thing at the time, because every musical before that, every opening number is a big, flashy, crazy thing, right? It's a big spectacle to welcome you to the world of this. And they were making a conscious choice. They were like, we're gonna start the show with a lone cowboy and a woman churning butter. And that's it. And just the simplicity of it all. So, Oh, What a Beautiful Morning was breaking the mold in that sense as well.

[38:48] Christi Esterle: And also, it's just, it's so catchy. Like it sets up the rules of the lyric writing as well. Like, it's not a meadow. It's a metter. All that.

[38:58] Jess McAnally: I feel like musically, it also sets up the setting very well. It has a very, like open sound to give that like, on a farm in Oklahoma type feel.

[39:09] Emily Clark: Yeah. And it's, it's really, I think, a testament to Hammerstein's lyric writing. He always just tows the line of being cheesy or, but he always manages to be earnest. And I think the imagery in the song is really interesting and really beautiful in a lot of ways while being still like simple. Corn is as high as an elephant's eye. I love that.

[39:32] Jess McAnally: But it's not an elephant's eye. It's a elephant's eye. Like little things like that are what makes the lyrics feel so intentional. Like that's kind of, it's written for this character. This isn't interchangeable between like him and Judd and Allie Hackam and all that other stuff.

[39:49] Christi Esterle: Exactly.

[39:50] Jess McAnally: It comes back a lot throughout the show. And it's, it's such a good opening. Like, I don't know how to describe it aside from just really good.

[39:59] Emily Clark: Yeah. It's a beautiful melody.

[40:01] Christi Esterle: That's a good way to describe it.

[40:02] Jess McAnally: Yeah. It's just, it's a good opening number and it sets up the world perfectly. And, you know, audiences at the time, they didn't know what to expect. They were like, what is this? When is this cowboy? Where are the dancing girls?

[40:15] Emily Clark: Where's the gals? Where's the ladies?

[40:17] Christi Esterle: Where's the follies girls?

[40:18] Jess McAnally: Now, if you were to open it, if you were to open it with a big opening number, how should they have done that?

[40:25] Emily Clark: Everything's up to date in Kansas City.

[40:27] Jess McAnally: Right. Just a bunch of cowboys, like riding in doing that, like Agnes DeMille, like straddle jump thing she does in the ballet or something. I don't know.

[40:39] Christi Esterle: Maybe, maybe like something you'd see a few decades later in like best little whorehouse in Texas or something.

[41:07] Jess McAnally: So the song that follows that, I find very interesting. And that's the surrey with the fringe on top, which serves simultaneously as an I want song for Lori and Curly while also setting up the romance. I find that super interesting.

[41:19] Emily Clark: And the fact that it's not even like the ideal I want song that we know of today.

[41:27] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it sets up, it's more, it's definitely about setting up their dynamic as, as characters, how they relate to each other. He, he has a surrey, he rented it and he's just fucking with Lori. He's just fucking with her during the song.

[41:41] Christi Esterle: And the thing is, because they have, this is their whole thing. They, they banter, they flirt, they will, they won't, they, they, it's like every 90s rom-com, but in a 1940s musical.

[41:54] Emily Clark: And they have fun banter.

[41:56] Jess McAnally: They do have like some little quips and jabs they give at each other. And it is fun to, it is fun when the actors are good. That's another thing, like I said, that I think the Hugh Jackman version does really well.

[42:05] Christi Esterle: And I agree, but with this song, like when you get the right performers, you understand what both of them want out of this relationship. Without them saying a word of like, I want this, like you understand exactly what they're both aiming for.

[42:19] Emily Clark: And how she feels and what he's doing this for all that.

[42:23] Jess McAnally: Yeah, yeah. It's all, it's all about their motivations.

[42:27] Christi Esterle: You get a real sense of who all three, including Aunt Ellar, how all of them are and what their story is going to be through that first song they do together.

[42:35] Emily Clark: And you might even figure out what a Suri is.

[42:38] Jess McAnally: Woohoo!

[42:40] Christi Esterle: I always, I always like to joke that, that Greece and Oklahoma end the same way with the two main characters, like riding off in the vehicle of their dreams.

[42:49] Emily Clark: You know what a Suri is to me? Suri is how my dad says Siri. And he wonders why they don't understand him when he says, Hey Suri.

[42:56] Jess McAnally: Oh, I like that.

[42:57] Emily Clark: Hey Suri.

[43:00] Christi Esterle: He's not a folksy man. He just doesn't know the difference between Suri and Siri.

[43:04] Jess McAnally: Yeah, exactly.

[43:07] Emily Clark: I like that. He's a good man.

[43:08] Jess McAnally: He's listening right now. So he's probably like shit in his pants. Like what? Don't mention me. Why are you putting my shit out there? Don't talk about me. It's not Siri? It's Siri? Why didn't nobody tell me?

[43:18] ♪ Musical number: "I Cain't Say No" — performed by Emily Clark ♪

[43:31] Jess McAnally: Um, let's talk about I can't say no.

[43:34] Emily Clark: I love this song.

[43:36] Christi Esterle: Oh my gosh. It's such a fun song.

[43:37] Jess McAnally: The revival version of this song is really, really good.

[43:40] Emily Clark: Oh my God. It's so good.

[43:42] Christi Esterle: She sings it like exactly how you want it to be with her rip roaring and yipping. And the ending, the way they do the ending is.

[43:51] Jess McAnally: Oh yeah.

[43:52] Emily Clark: All the slides and everything and all the growls. It's all good. I love it.

[43:55] Christi Esterle: Oh, it's so good.

[43:57] Jess McAnally: And I will say, I really want to give the revival this like, you know, Allie Stroker's in a wheelchair and never once is her wheelchair a thing in the show. It's never a plot element. It's never like, look at 8 0 Annie in a wheelchair. It's just that the actress is in a wheelchair. So it's completely secondary, third, fourth dairy to her performance. And there's cute moments where like, Will will like hop in the wheelchair with her and she'll like ride off, you know, it's like really cute things like that, that I really dig.

[44:29] Christi Esterle: She's so good in that.

[44:30] Emily Clark: But how does she sit in someone else's lap?

[44:34] Jess McAnally: There's a couple moments where I think Will like picks her up, I think, and like sits him in her lap. Actually, there are a couple moments like that.

[44:42] Christi Esterle: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[44:44] Emily Clark: But it's great. And there's ramps all over.

[44:48] Jess McAnally: Just like real Oklahoma.

[44:52] Christi Esterle: All of Oklahoma is handicap accessible.

[44:55] Emily Clark: Well, I should mention that it looks, the set looks like a, God, it looks like the inside of like, like a dance hall or like a skate park.

[45:06] Jess McAnally: No, like kind of like what your grandpa's like Eagles Club would look like maybe like, it looks like just a big, like, a lot of people when I show them the pictures, they're like, oh, it looks like a gym. And but up close, the wood isn't like polished. It just looks like plywood put up. And there's like gun racks on the walls. And that's it. And the lights are up like almost the whole show. It's crazy.

[45:35] Christi Esterle: So it kind of makes sense that there would be like ramps. And she kind of, there's like a big like kind of vom in the center near the where the band is. And she kind of just like rolls in and out of that. They put a big ramp around and it's great. It's really great. And anyway, getting back to I Can't Say No, she's just like, oh, yeah. And she like sings like crap out of that song. And that song has slowly gotten better and better with every new version.

[45:57] Emily Clark: Like the original version is very bad. Like the original, original Broadway version. She's like wringing her hands the entire time. Like, I can't say no.

[46:05] Jess McAnally: Yes.

[46:07] Christi Esterle: And then as it gets down, like the 99 revival version, she's just like her legs are spread. She's like, I like the book.

[46:13] Emily Clark: Yes.

[46:15] Jess McAnally: I love that one.

[46:15] Christi Esterle: And her hat's like kind of askew. And she's just like sitting in the cornfield.

[46:19] Emily Clark: I love that one.

[46:19] Jess McAnally: Yeah, every time people kind of because there's nothing. I heard some guy on Facebook who was like, that song is really sexist. And I said, I don't know what is sexist about this song, other than like maybe the way you interpret it. Because there are moments where she's like, every time I lose a wrestling match, I have a funny feeling that I won. And I was like, she's not being pinned down against her will, you know, like she's there because she wants to be. So I think it's easy to kind of on the surface misjudge it. Like, I can't say no. It's like, no, she's saying she has no self-control. It's because she wants to bone everybody. And like, yay, let her do it. Who cares?

[46:57] Emily Clark: I love it.

[46:57] Christi Esterle: People are looking at it as like a male fantasy thing. Like, oh, a girl that can't say no, that's perfect. I'm not sure that's how it's meant to be.

[47:05] Jess McAnally: I don't think that's how it's meant to be interpreted.

[47:07] Emily Clark: Well, and I think like it's no, no, I think it's like really common. Well, I mean, like, you know, guys are allowed to have sex with whoever they want. And girls are either a slut or a prude. And I kind of like in later versions, it's kind of like she's in charge of her sexuality. And I think that kind of pisses guys off more.

[47:28] Jess McAnally: Well, when I first heard I liked it, I was fun. I was worried about you guys. I can't say no, because the no means no thing that goes on in a lot of sexual assault things that phrasing specifically kind of irked me and raised the trigger in the back of my head. Of course, I've listened to the song a thousand times since that. But I think that's my first like, oh, what?

[47:54] Christi Esterle: Yeah, yeah. I mean, context matters, obviously. And like, yeah, listening to if you just like heard the title or a couple lines and seen like, like you said, like the old hand-wringing, you know, 43 version, you might be a little like, oh, wait a second. But the latest, obviously, the latest revival version is getting so much traction. And that version is being heard all over the place. And I think people are realizing that it can be a really fun song for women to sing.

[48:20] Emily Clark: I think probably the reason they did it that way in the 40s was just that they couldn't do it the other way.

[48:25] Jess McAnally: Oh, for sure.

[48:26] Christi Esterle: Oh, yeah.

[48:27] Emily Clark: Yeah, I agree with that.

[48:28] Jess McAnally: I don't think they'd allow them to do that on stage.

[48:32] Emily Clark: No, no, no. I mean, you know, women, you know, it had to be a certain way. And if women were sexual, they would be kind of, quote, unquote, punished for it in the story one way or another.

[48:43] Christi Esterle: The loose women.

[49:05] ♪ Musical number: "Lonely Room" — performed by Unknown Performer ♪

[49:28] Jess McAnally: Let's talk about Lonely Room. This is one of the best villain songs ever.

[49:32] Emily Clark: It's a good one.

[49:33] Christi Esterle: Yeah.

[49:34] Jess McAnally: The floor.

[49:35] Emily Clark: He just wants real things, guys.

[49:38] Christi Esterle: He just doesn't want those little picture cards with those ladies on them.

[49:42] Jess McAnally: No, he wants a real girlfriend.

[49:44] Emily Clark: Yeah, it's a good one.

[49:46] Christi Esterle: It's a shame they cut it out of the movie.

[49:50] Jess McAnally: The 99 revival that Shuler Hensley does is awesome. It's a good song. It really gives you some insight into the character and it makes him more than just like a bad guy.

[50:01] Emily Clark: I feel like he starts out a lot more relatable, but then as the show goes on, he just does more and more irredeemable things.

[50:08] Jess McAnally: Yeah, for sure.

[50:10] Christi Esterle: I know.

[50:10] Emily Clark: He's going to kill Curly with that little little wonder toy.

[50:14] Jess McAnally: And that is basically I think that's a really good way to end Act One. And I really I like the idea that Act One kind of ends on that song in the new version.

[50:23] Christi Esterle: Like, well, it ends with a big ending.

[50:28] Emily Clark: Well, it does. She does sing. They do sing out of my dreams, but they just don't go into the ballet. So she does. She basically just does into a dream with you, sings the last line of it, or she sings it with the women. And then and it just ends. And then it's almost like the ballet, since it starts, the second act is so completely disconnected.

[50:49] Jess McAnally: From that song, which is, you know, it is what it is.

[50:54] Emily Clark: I think the ballet is the most outdated thing in the entire musical, though. It doesn't feel right. It's so long, and it's not something that you see in newer musicals ever.

[51:06] Jess McAnally: No, no, no, you certainly don't.

[51:09] Emily Clark: It just feels like, oh, what is this?

[51:11] Jess McAnally: Yeah, it was definitely a thing in musicals during that time period for a while.

[51:20] Emily Clark: Carousel has a, it's not a dream ballet, but Carousel has an extended dance sequence, dance storytelling sequence in the second act with the daughter. There's some other shows like, oh, I mean, West Side Story obviously starts with a huge dance sequence, but dance is integrated in a kind of a different way in that show.

[51:38] Jess McAnally: And I could probably think of some more, but we don't really do that nowadays.

[51:43] Emily Clark: We don't have an extended dance, like a 30-minute dance sequence or 20-minute dance sequence. Nowadays, dance is a lot more integrated.

[51:52] Jess McAnally: So I would agree with that for sure.

[51:55] Emily Clark: Yeah, and I think they even use a dance ballet later in their own work. I hate to say it, but Carousel has an incredible dance ballet used very effectively with the story.

[52:07] Jess McAnally: Yeah, Carousel has one.

[52:11] Emily Clark: Don't think, oh, well, no, The King and I doesn't really have one. And I don't think, unless you count the little small house of Uncle Thomas as one. And then South Pacific doesn't really have one either.

[52:27] Jess McAnally: So, yeah, I mean, I guess those first two and then a lot of other composers, sorry, musical theater teams and choreographers would kind of emulate that.

[52:37] Emily Clark: Agnes DeMille was kind of the start of the kind of Broadway choreographer being so integral to the team.

[52:46] Jess McAnally: Like Jerome Robbins would come quickly after that.

[52:50] Emily Clark: And then, of course, Bob Fosse down the line a little bit farther. But for the time, though, like, yeah, it was a crazy thing to have the dance connected to the story in such a way.

[53:02] Jess McAnally: And then there are moments in the show where obviously where it's just like, hey, dancing. But every time there is kind of a reason for it, like Kansas City, Will's like, hey, let me show you the dance steps that I learned in Kansas City.

[53:13] Emily Clark: And then it goes into a huge dance sequence or, you know, I love the lasso stuff. That's great.

[53:19] Jess McAnally: Oh, yeah, that part's great.

[53:22] Emily Clark: And like Farmer and the Cowman, obviously, they're at a barn dance. So it makes sense they'd all be dancing.

[53:26] Jess McAnally: So there's a few many a new day. That one kind of goes on forever.

[53:31] Emily Clark: But in the revival.

[53:33] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[53:34] Emily Clark: But in there, I also love many a new day. I love that song.

[53:38] Emily Clark: In the revival, there's only four women in the cast. They whittle all the women down to four actresses.

[53:44] Jess McAnally: And basically the woman who plays Gertie, you know, the silly laugh girl.

[53:49] Emily Clark: She basically plays like all the other women in the ensemble. And then there's Aunt Eller and Lori and Ado Annie.

[53:55] Jess McAnally: So I really loved that because when just the four women are singing, you can really hear the beautiful harmonies and songs like many a new day and out of my dreams, which I liked.

[54:07] Emily Clark: Also, in many a new day, they were like breaking. They were like breaking up corn and throwing it into a pot like they were getting ready for dinner.

[54:14] Jess McAnally: And so it was really cool because they were acting. They were acting real pissed off and breaking the corn.

[54:18] Emily Clark: So instead of them flouncing around, getting dressed like in the original, they're kind of aggressively breaking corn and singing these really cool harmonies.

[54:26] Jess McAnally: So I thought that was neat.

[54:27] Emily Clark: They're breaking penises.

[54:28] Jess McAnally: All right, let's talk about Oklahoma, the state song of Oklahoma.

[54:58] Emily Clark: It's the title song.

[55:06] Jess McAnally: I think everyone knows this one, right?

[55:07] Emily Clark: It's a rip roaring crowd pleaser. The perfect song right before a murder.

[55:12] Jess McAnally: Well, it's so funny, right? When Oklahoma came out, it was right. So it was 1943. And it was around the time. I'm not good with dates like this, but it was around when World War II was happening.

[55:26] Emily Clark: And so soldiers who were coming back or who were in New York, let's say on leave or people who had soldiers who were away, they were able to see this musical that was all about a town or a community that could have looked like theirs.

[55:42] Jess McAnally: And so that was one of the big reasons why it was such a hit at the time, was it kind of reminded like the boys of their home while they were at war.

[55:51] Emily Clark: And so songs like Oklahoma really took off like that because they were just so representative of like that American saying.

[55:58] Jess McAnally: And yeah, so and that song has been kind of a standard ever since, obviously.

[56:04] Andrew Clark: What do you think of the song?

[56:07] Jess McAnally: What do I think of Oklahoma, the song?

[56:09] Andrew Clark: Yeah, I mean, it's a fun song. It doesn't have like, you know, that much relevance.

[56:17] Jess McAnally: I don't think I think it's just kind of a fun thing to sing.

[56:20] Emily Clark: It's true. It's really just kind of like sing along.

[56:24] Jess McAnally: I think it's fun when you can tell someone has done Oklahoma because they always sing the backup parts in Oklahoma.

[56:31] Emily Clark: They do the yippy eyes and the Oklahoma, Oklahoma. That's always a hoot.

[56:44] Jess McAnally: OK, so we're going to move to a different segment that I think is still relatively new for us.

[56:49] Emily Clark: It's trivia time, guys.

[56:51] Jess McAnally: Yeah, Jess, you're the current reigning champion, is that correct?

[56:55] Emily Clark: Um, yeah, I guess I keep coming back to this show, correct?

[56:58] Jess McAnally: You won the last one.

[57:00] Emily Clark: I did not. Remember, Angelina, we're not with the last one.

[57:02] Jess McAnally: Oh, shoot.

[57:06] Emily Clark: Oh, my goodness.

[57:07] Jess McAnally: Well, I think you're also going to lose this one.

[57:10] Emily Clark: Yeah, I think I'm going to lose it, too. I've got a feeling.

[57:13] Jess McAnally: I think the first question is going to go to our guest.

[57:15] Emily Clark: I am ready.

[57:16] Jess McAnally: Here is Jess's question for you. In what state did Oklahoma, exclamation point, originally open?

[57:24] Emily Clark: New York state?

[57:25] Jess McAnally: Did it have an out-of-town triumph?

[57:27] Emily Clark: Yes, it did.

[57:28] Jess McAnally: Uh, then Connecticut.

[57:31] Jess McAnally: So which answer are we going with, Jess?

[57:33] Emily Clark: She got it right. Connecticut was correct.

[57:38] Jess McAnally: So with Connecticut being correct, that means you actually get the point here.

[57:42] Jess McAnally: Jess, are you ready for your question?

[57:44] Emily Clark: I am, I think.

[57:45] Jess McAnally: What were the names of the actor slash actress who played Laurie and Curly in the 1950s film version of Oklahoma?

[57:50] Emily Clark: Uh, it was Shirley Jones and, uh, John Raitt.

[58:02] Jess McAnally: Oh, that's so close.

[58:05] Emily Clark: Oh, oh, no.

[58:07] Jess McAnally: Not John Raitt, but that's an interesting connection.

[58:11] Emily Clark: Gordon McRae.

[58:12] Jess McAnally: Oh, shit.

[58:13] Emily Clark: Yes, the one from Carousel.

[58:14] Jess McAnally: You confused him with John Raitt.

[58:16] Emily Clark: Yes, yes. John Raitt played Billy Bigelow on Broadway.

[58:19] Jess McAnally: What was the correct answer here?

[58:20] Emily Clark: Does he get half a point?

[58:21] Jess McAnally: I'm going to say no, that's not half a point.

[58:23] Emily Clark: He gets no points for that.

[58:25] Jess McAnally: I get no points, I lose.

[58:26] Emily Clark: You have to answer the whole question.

[58:27] Jess McAnally: That's your call.

[58:29] Emily Clark: All right, that is my call, and I'm making it.

[58:32] Jess McAnally: All right, so we're going to go to the one next question.

[58:37] Emily Clark: We do two questions. So if you get this, you basically win because Jess won't be able to come back.

[58:44] Jess McAnally: All right, this is a true or false question. The movie version of Oklahoma was filmed in Oklahoma.

[58:50] Emily Clark: False?

[58:55] Jess McAnally: I feel like it has to be false, because then why would we ask?

[58:59] Emily Clark: It is false.

[59:00] Jess McAnally: You got it. Can you guess where it was filmed?

[59:05] Emily Clark: Oh, Texas?

[59:07] Jess McAnally: OK, that's not correct.

[59:08] Emily Clark: That wasn't actually the question, though.

[59:09] Jess McAnally: So you got the question right.

[59:11] Emily Clark: It was Arizona.

[59:13] Jess McAnally: Oh, so that makes sense.

[59:14] Emily Clark: Even closer to Hollywood.

[59:16] Jess McAnally: I lose.

[59:23] Andrew Clark: You know what else is very important, Andrew?

[59:25] Jess McAnally: What's that?

[59:26] Andrew Clark: That today's show is brought to you by Audible. Audible is offering a free audio book with a 30-day free trial membership. Just go to audibletrial.com slash musicals to cheese and browse the unmatched selection of audio programs. Download the title free and start listening. It is that easy. Go to audibletrial.com slash musicals to cheese.

[59:46] Jess McAnally: He just turns it on.

[59:47] Emily Clark: I feel like you could put Audible into the... You could put it into the pick a little, talk a little song.

[59:53] Jess McAnally: Audible, Audible, Audible, Audible, Audible, Audible, Audible.

[59:56] Emily Clark: You know, from the music band.

[59:57] Jess McAnally: That's a good idea.

[59:58] Emily Clark: See, she has the good ideas, Jess. Why don't you think of this?

[1:00:01] Jess McAnally: You know what? She won the trivia game, so why don't you just take her and put her on the show?

[1:00:06] Emily Clark: All right.

[1:00:07] Jess McAnally: You're the new co-host.

[1:00:08] Emily Clark: Jess is out of here.

[1:00:09] Jess McAnally: Yes!

[1:00:11] Emily Clark: All right, everyone, I'm out. We're going to talk about Sondheim now.

[1:00:14] Jess McAnally: We're going to talk about Sondheim.

[1:00:16] Emily Clark: Excellent.

[1:00:17] Jess McAnally: We don't do enough of that.

[1:00:19] Emily Clark: Oh, God.

[1:00:20] Jess McAnally: All day, every day.

[1:00:21] Emily Clark: Emily, why don't you tell us a little bit about your show and promote all your stuff?

[1:00:25] Emily Clark: Okay, sure. Yeah. I have a show on YouTube called Stealing Focus where I review movie and TV musicals with the help of my roommates, one of which is a little furry green puppet named Gerald.

[1:00:38] Emily Clark: And we love to talk about movie musicals, but we're also spinning off into some other stuff. We do Real Thoughts Vlogs. We're also going to be starting a series, probably just this month, called Give My Regards To... And we do musical theater history lessons in each episode.

[1:00:55] Emily Clark: And we will be talking some Rodgers and Hammerstein. And the reason why I had the Pulitzer Prize thing on my head is we're doing an episode of all the musicals that have won the Pulitzer Prize, because there's only been nine.

[1:01:05] Emily Clark: So, you know, I could talk about this stuff all day, every day. So I'm on YouTube and Twitter at Emily A.B. Clark.

[1:01:14] Emily Clark: And yeah, that's where I live.

[1:01:20] Jess McAnally: That's great.

[1:01:22] Andrew Clark: I love your stuff.

[1:01:23] Jess McAnally: I recommend it quite a bit.

[1:01:25] Andrew Clark: I think that if everyone who enjoys the show would definitely enjoy the stuff that you do.

[1:01:29] Jess McAnally: It's really top notch.

[1:01:32] Andrew Clark: Know who else I want to thank?

[1:01:33] Jess McAnally: I want to thank the listener for listening and being awesome.

[1:01:37] Andrew Clark: And if you would, please rate us on Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher. We're all there at Musicals With Cheese.

[1:01:44] Jess McAnally: Leave us reviews. We need more reviews. We're trying to hit 200 by the end of the year. So come on, folks.

[1:01:48] Andrew Clark: I thought it was 100.

[1:01:50] Jess McAnally: Now it's 200.

[1:01:51] Andrew Clark: I'm boosting it up with everything.

[1:01:54] Jess McAnally: Gotta raise your standards or else...

[1:01:55] Andrew Clark: We need 200 reviews or Jess will die.

[1:02:00] Jess McAnally: Oh, poor Jess is dead.

[1:02:06] Andrew Clark: Hanging myself up in the whole barnhouse.

[1:02:10] Jess McAnally: Jess, I'm sorry. We didn't get 200 reviews, but that was a really nice looking rope behind you there.

[1:02:18] Andrew Clark: You know what you could use that for?

[1:02:22] Jess McAnally: The easiest phone on the world.

[1:02:23] Andrew Clark: We're also on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals.

[1:02:29] Jess McAnally: Our Patreon. We have so many wonderful patrons over at Patreon. We're at Musicals With Cheese.

[1:02:34] Andrew Clark: On Instagram at Musicals With Cheese.

[1:02:35] Jess McAnally: Follow us on the YouTube page, Musicals With Cheese.

[1:02:38] Andrew Clark: Our email is musicaltheaterlives at gmail.com.

[1:02:41] Jess McAnally: Go give us some attention there.

[1:02:42] Andrew Clark: Also, check out our brand new website, musicalswithcheese.com.

[1:02:46] Jess McAnally: It looks wonderful.

[1:02:47] Andrew Clark: I put a lot of work into it.

[1:02:48] Jess McAnally: So why don't you go on there?

[1:02:49] Andrew Clark: I'm going now.

[1:02:52] Jess McAnally: Yeah, go now.

[1:02:54] Andrew Clark: Oh my goodness, go.

[1:02:55] Jess McAnally: Our title card is created by Jolene Casco.

[1:02:58] Andrew Clark: Follow her on Instagram at Jolene Casco.

[1:03:02] Jess McAnally: All right, you guys.

[1:03:03] Andrew Clark: I think that's all we got to say about Oklahoma.

[1:03:07] Jess McAnally: Woo!

[1:03:07] Emily Clark: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plain.

[1:03:12] Jess McAnally: It's hard when there's a delay.

[1:03:15] Emily Clark: It's true.

[1:03:16] Jess McAnally: We'll see you next time on Musicals With Cheese.

[1:03:20] Emily Clark: Oh, what a beautiful barn.