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[0:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Hello and welcome to the Drama Book Show. My name is Mark-Eugene Garcia.

[0:21] David Rigano: My name is David Rigano. And today we're going to talk about singing.

[0:25] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes, we had Carolyn Marcell Elmore, author of *Uncovering Your True Voice: A Practical Guide for Singers and Teachers* in the store, talking about teaching singing. Teaching singing and giving practical examples by bringing in singers to be those examples. It was an exciting time. We don't always get a musical act.

[0:51] David Rigano: Yeah, whenever there's a musical element, we always kind of go, okay, so how are we going to do this? Yeah, a podcast with some music. And are we getting the keyboard out? Are we getting the Lens keyboard out?

[1:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We're getting the Lens keyboard. Are we getting tracks? What are we playing the tracks off of?

[1:09] David Rigano: Yeah.

[1:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I do believe that I was on...

[1:13] David Rigano: Keyboard microphone, I think, right? Were you holding the microphone to the keyboard?

[1:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: No, it was, they had a Bluetooth speaker.

[1:19] David Rigano: Oh, yeah.

[1:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But I think that I was on YouTube duty.

[1:23] David Rigano: Yeah.

[1:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Because that's a great, there are so many either karaoke or just the tracks of people playing the piano, like an instrumental only version on the piano. There's so much of that all over YouTube, so you can find something. As a vocal coach who teaches virtually sometimes, figured out over the pandemic how to do that, that's a saving grace because I'm not a great piano player.

[1:45] David Rigano: No, you're not.

[1:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But certainly, I can't play, I can't accompany someone over Zoom. So having that as a resource so that they can sing along to something in a coaching session is very helpful.

[2:02] David Rigano: When I was in college, I sang "Run Away With Me" from *The Mad Ones*.

[2:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, I'm about to call it by its old title, its dead name.

[2:11] David Rigano: What's that?

[2:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: *The Unauthorized Autobiography of Dr. Brown*.

[2:13] David Rigano: Yes, I had to announce that when I was singing it. But to practice it, I found on YouTube, somebody playing accompaniment of it, but they were playing it in a different key. And it was the key I wanted.

[2:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Ooh, okay, there we go.

[2:33] David Rigano: And I had a friend transpose it.

[2:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Okay, were you able to, that's what I was gonna say.

[2:37] David Rigano: I was able to perform it in that key. And it was wonderful because I was like, it wasn't the Michael Arden key from where I first heard that song.

[2:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Where we all first heard that song.

[2:47] David Rigano: Oh my god, it was on Pandora.

[2:49] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Was it like the Harry Manilowkis key? Didn't she sing it?

[2:52] David Rigano: I don't know.

[2:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That would have been years after that.

[2:57] David Rigano: When I first heard it, it was like 2012. And that's when I was finishing school. And that's when I sang it. And it's, yeah.

[3:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I may have discovered Kerrigan and Lodermilk on Myspace or something.

[3:08] David Rigano: Oh wow, yeah. No, this was like, it was playing, I was cleaning the house and I had the, I think probably the Legally Blonde channel where they was just like different musicals. And then that popped on and I was like, what is this? And just immediately fell in love.

[3:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And then was looking it up on YouTube. And then it just happened that someone had it, that they were playing it. And I was like, what? Yes. And I would practice with that. And then so I found someone to transpose it. I'm like, put it in this key, please.

[3:33] David Rigano: They had a song that I love so much. And Mary Testa recorded the original demo for them. And that's what they had out on their website or wherever they were putting their music. And I loved that song. And they rewrote the ending of the song. And I think Katie Thompson has recorded it officially, who also, God, one of the most insane voices I've ever been privileged to be in the same room listening to. And I have to say, I prefer the original ending.

[4:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's always that.

[4:07] David Rigano: I've seen them write blog posts about why they changed it. And I fully understand that the new ending more encapsulates what their original intent for the song always was. And I just, Kate and Bri, if you happen to be hearing this and you know how much I adore your work, I just prefer the original. And of course, they have scrubbed that Mary Testa recording from the internet. Do I have it downloaded on some drive somewhere? Maybe? I don't know. I hope so. But yeah, I really loved that. But they, Kerrigan and Lodermilk, write a major.

[4:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Amazing. Yeah, that song really hit me where I needed at that point. It really just summed me up.

[4:51] David Rigano: And so all of their music does that.

[4:55] Mark-Eugene Garcia: As someone who was figuring out that I really wanted to write musicals, when I was in college, when I was discovering them, they so became a North Star for me.

[5:06] David Rigano: Truly, truly. I remember before even that song, discovering them, and just having that sense of, ooh, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to be. Where's my collaborator like this? And it just, they...

[5:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm gonna get on my soapbox. It was a time where it really felt that you could look to half a generation ahead of you and see what you could aspire to. And I think the landscape of writing new musical theater has really changed since the early 2000s. And we don't have that kind of, here's the next generation of musical theater writers in the same way that you had Jason Robert Brown coming up, Jason Robert Brown and Adam Gettl and people coming up in the 90s, and then people like Kerrigan and Lodermilk in the early 2000s. But they were among the people who I looked to.

[6:02] David Rigano: Yeah, you got that Ryan Scott Oliver, you get that, those songwriters that were writing what we felt.

[6:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And doing what we, us seeing possibilities for what we could do in what they were doing. And Kerrigan and Lodermilk in particular, they were getting commissioned to write theater work shows. I went and saw their Henry and Mudd show, which was beautiful. But they created from the ground up an immersive musical. I think that was the bad years. They did a whole song cycle on a blog where they had people blogging, and they would then turn blog posts into songs.

[6:46] David Rigano: I love it.

[6:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like they were just really pushing how musical theater could be created in a way that felt like they were opening doors for us to walk through.

[6:59] David Rigano: And that's the thing is that it just, now if you want that, if you want to know the next musical theater composer, you just, I don't know, listen to the newest pop song. You never know.

[7:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I do think a lot of that kind of stuff, like using blogs and they were using Twitter, which was like so brand new and people were like sending tweets from their phone to the blog. And it was like all getting public, all getting accumulated in that one website that you could go to and be following along with the blog posts and the tweets, and then seeing the songs that would come out of that.

[7:33] David Rigano: And I think that *Ratatousical* is such a descendant of that.

[7:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, we can get on TikTok and I can write half a song and then you can pick up the next half of that from what I started. And a bunch of enthusiastic musical theater kids in the middle of a pandemic can collaborate and write a show without ever being in the same room.

[7:59] David Rigano: It's incredibly collaborative musical theater from the point that I collaborated with someone who played a piano on YouTube that I never met.

[8:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[8:08] David Rigano: To do this, to perform a song for a voice class.

[8:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Which brings us back to where we...

[8:13] David Rigano: I know, right?

[8:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I was going to say, how are we getting back to this?

[8:16] David Rigano: We went a little musical theater writing tangent, which musical theater writers tend to do.

[8:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Tend to do.

[8:21] David Rigano: But yes, bringing us back to education and musical theater. Let's hear what Carolyn Marcell Elmore has to say about uncovering your true voice.

[8:32] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Well, welcome and thank you so much for joining us, for the world according to Carolyn Marcell and uncovering your true voice.

[8:43] Tony Javid: You might be wondering who this Yahoo Tony Javid is. Well, I'm a communication strategist, but I'm also a performer and writer. And I'm actually doing my one plug tonight, which I think is very apropos. I'm also president of Masterwork Music and Arts Foundation. And what we do, theater, visual arts, and dance. And we also, in those four areas, give out a premier award, which goes to fund the development of a new work in those four areas that we trust will stand the test of time. And so far, we've done a good job. We can talk about that later. But right now, we are here to hear Carolyn's approach to uncovering your true voice. And she has a great passage to start off with, which combines her approach and also a little bit of the history of developing vocal technique.

[9:41] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Thank you, Tony. And thank you all, gosh, for supporting. This is my life's work, y'all. You know, it's pathetic, isn't it? Just those few pages. This is it. I have boiled it down to all of this. But as my book starts, and that's how I'm going to start, is to not just to tell you what this book is about, but mostly what it's not about. This is not about pedagogy. It's not about science as we know science today. Because at the end of the day, and I think this is so fascinating, actually, to think about, at the end of the day, they have been going through a lot of research, and they have been great singers and great singing teachers since the third century, where the Christian church and the Gregorian chant got started.

And that took us to the Baroque era with Bach and Handel and Vivaldi, and then to the classical era with Mozart and Haydn and Beethoven. And then the Romantic period, especially in Italy with the bel canto, where the extension of the voice and its abilities in range and in power and in instrumental facility grew exponentially, even to Wagner, even to early Wagner, before anyone even saw where the vocal cords were what they did. That was Manuel Garcia, and I think it was 1854. I think I've got 1855 here, but I think it was actually 1854. He was the first person with the help of two mirrors and the sunlight to actually see his own vocal cords vibrating. 1854, we're into Wagner already. This is what has happened where the training and development of the voice went without even knowing where the instrument was or how it functioned.

So is pedagogy important? You bet. Is it a good thing? It's a wonderful thing. Is it the determiner of how to teach a voice? No, I don't think so. At the end of the day, it's the teacher's ear, the conductor's ear, the composer's ear that guides the singer. And that's how they learn how to sing, memorizing those energies and those skills without the help of modern science. So there you go. Now, as I go through the process here, I'm going to fast forward a lot of it. But in learning how to sing, the process is the way I spell it out after a whole lifetime of trying to figure this out and working with countless, countless, countless students. After posture comes breath. And one of my favorite ways of teaching the breath is by utilizing some of you who've studied science and are really, really smart.

I'm going to know this already, but I'm not sure you're going to know it in terms of singers. And it bears repeating. There's a theory of aerodynamics known as the Bernoulli effect. It's hugely helpful in understanding exactly the energy and timing of perfect phonation. That is, the moment when the vocal cords approximate and vibrate a pitch. Bernoulli states that decreasing the air pressure between two objects actually draws the two objects together, the opposite of what you would kind of think. Now, I'm going to show you this because it's fun. And I do this with students, although I'm doing it sideways. Any of you who've studied with me?

[13:41] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: I already probably have seen this over and over, but here we go. This is the Bernoulli effect. Let's pretend that these are my vocal cords, which would not be in this position, right? But they would be up there somewhere. And this is the trachea, which is what delivers the air. And I'm going to go, so what happens? I blow air there and the vocal cords get sucked together. This is a great technique for countering the very common habit of muscling, trying to make sound. The singer wants to hear what they can't hear. They have to learn very early on that listening to yourself is very counterproductive. So that's a great little trick for singers to begin the process of learning, that you start the energy first from the breath, and then the sound happens after, after the fact.

[14:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes, now we're going to go. Thank you so much. That was, yes. So just so you know, we're going to go through a series of three passages from the book, and then we're going to see them put into action by some of Carolyn's very talented students. And the first topic is we're going to enter the wonderful world of legato. I can't imagine that they aren't in there.

[15:31] Dylan Glick: It looks like everything's in there. Everything else in the world is in there, so why wouldn't they be? Everything else is. Do you need a hand?

[15:33] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yes, thank you. Oh, I'm sorry. Did I knock that over? You focus on the glasses. You know what? Why don't you look in there? Why don't I? Why don't I look in here? I'll try to fake it. The literal meaning. I'll let you know what I see later. You don't want to know what's in there. The literal meaning of the word legato is in a smooth manner. No breaks between the notes, okay? Continuous sound. Now, this is not very, very much in keeping with the Americanized English, where we go very much toward consonant sounds. Unless you're from the Deep South, in the drawl, where you just kind of drag the vowels and hardly pronounce the consonants. Well, that works very well for singing. But not too many of us actually speak that way.

So what I would like to do right now is invite Robert Stinner, a young man that I've known since he was about 11 or 12. Stunning with me. Show your handsome self. Yes, yes, please, please. Sing something from Phantom of the Opera, right? And he's going to show us what legato is.

[17:01] ♪ Musical number: "Music of the Night" — performed by Robert Stinner ♪

[18:43] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Bravo. That was gorgeous. That was just absolutely ideal. Did you all notice? Did you all notice there were no breaks between the sounds? There was no space. Even when he was on a consonant, it was still traveling its way to the next vowel, right? Music. It was making music on every note. Take you to every note. And yet, did you miss any words? You understood every word, right? Do you know how long people, Americans have to work to get to do that? Like that? It seems so easy. If you're Italian, you have an easier time of it because your language is already like that. But for Americans to learn to do that like that.

[19:27] David Rigano: Terrific. Thank you so much. Well, we nailed legato. All right. So, well, we're moving on to a particularly, I think, delicious topic for just about any performer. And that is the concept of high notes. High notes. Yes.

[19:53] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: That's the piece de resistance, right? That's the one that singers get scared at high notes. For one thing, even the ones that are good at it, you're very exposed up there. And the singer doesn't hear. They have to memorize an athleticism that allows them to get there and trust that it's going to work even under pressure, even when they're really nervous. And the real high stakes, I mean, if you go to the Metropolitan and you go here, like the most famous singers in the world. Remember Beverly Sills said, you're only as good as your last high C because all you have to do is fail once. And the critics are after you when it's so easy to fail. It's a very precarious thing. Now, I devised a little trick because as a singer and also working with so many singers, one of the things I figured out is that most singers, when they're getting to something that scares them, like a high note, have a tendency to want to rush there, get to it, forget what's on the hook, forget everything that got you, just get there, get it over with. So you can take a breath and chill out, right? Yeah, but that's not the path. And what I figured out was...

[21:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I tried to help with those glasses. Thank you. Didn't find them. Didn't find them. Okay, no problem. Well, I can wing this since I do it all the time.

[21:20] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: You can. It doesn't have to be a direct reading. It could just be... Whether it's in the book or not.

[21:25] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That's right. And it's very well worded in the book, but it's extra inspired when it's extempore. So just tell them.

[21:30] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Right. So the trick is, not the high note, but what you did to get there. At the end of the day, spending more time focusing on... How many times did we do this? Focusing on the note prior, what I call the setup note. Sing that note in practicing and rehearsing, okay? You got to take it out of tempo. Don't try to sing this stuff in tempo. And then you're going to get to the high note. Don't try to sing this stuff in tempo. Work your way through to the note prior. Pretend that you are riding a bicycle and you're looking at a hill. Most singers, if they want to approach the high note the way they would normally approach it, they'll get slowed down getting to the hill and run out of steam before they've gotten to the top of the hill.

What you want to do is treat that hill as though it's something you have to prepare for back here. And start speeding up in order to get enough breath energy to make it to the top. When you prepare the note prior to a high note correctly, that high note rarely feels high if it's in the singer's voice, if it's in their range. And we have a lovely young lady here, Joy Missy. You're being beckoned. Get on out here. Who is going to demonstrate, hopefully, hopefully she's going to demonstrate what that is. How you don't rush to the high note, but spend time on the note just before and crescendo it. And then the high note should just be right there. A little tall. Let's see if this fits. Yeah.

[23:36] ♪ Musical number ♪

[24:14] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: She's going to be in a voice teacher here, right? Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay.

[24:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Is this on? No, this isn't. Thank you.

[24:34] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Ah, there we go. The light though. Okay. What I want you to do is I want you to do, start dancing, honey.

[24:45] Dylan Glick: It's always time for a dance break.

[24:47] David Rigano: One hundred percent.

[24:49] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: I had a friend once who, uh.

[24:58] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Apparently, you blew its mind.

[25:00] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yeah. Okay. Okay. What I want you to do is, um, V hum, right?

[25:30] ♪ Musical number ♪

[26:34] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Well, that was well tweaked. Excuse me. I rest my case on that. Lovely. Bravo.

[27:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Okay. Now.

[27:12] Dylan Glick: Oh yes. No, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. So, um, we're, we're, I guess we're moving. This is what the section that we like to call beyond the book, right?

[27:22] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yes, because, um.

[27:24] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: The book lays out basics, everything every singer, every teacher should know, but then it's really about development beyond those basics, and so we're taking it back to breath. Back to breath, yes, exactly. Breath, as we talked about, you know, it was on the breath, but as you get more advanced, there is something called breath pressure or breath support, that gives a little more strength to the tone without muscle, without muscling.

[28:00] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: So, if Martina would like to come out, she's going to sing for us something from, this is Martina Reschka, another one of my students from Florida, but she's from FAU, and this is from Sister Act, right, Sister Act, and she's going to sing it once with normal breath control, as in no help from any devices, and then she'll sing it again.

[28:31] Martina Reschka: And all of the doors yet to open, all of the rooms ahead, they're beckoning bright, scary and new, but I'm standing tall and I'm walking through what's gone, maybe gone, but I won't go on playing dead, it's time to start living the life I never led.

[29:25] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: That's lovely. Now, we're going to pump it up a notch. My favorite part. When I was a young student and studying opera, the teachers encouraged us to wear corsets, because it helped to maintain a sense of support. You felt the muscles work, right? You felt them work. So, this is the modern day version.

[30:09] Martina Reschka: And all of the doors yet to open, all of the rooms ahead, they're beckoning bright, scary and new, but I'm standing tall and I'm walking through what's gone, maybe gone, but I won't go on playing dead, it's time to start living the life I never led.

[30:46] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Thank you. I think that speaks for itself. All right. So, Tony, I think that was... Thank you so very much. I'm trying to remember to get to the mic first. So, I think that everyone, I think everyone probably has the same question here. So, do the studs help? Or is that just me?

[31:10] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Okay. What did you say? Well, no, I mean, that takes us through. Those were the demonstrations that we really wanted to go through. I think that this would be a lovely time if we had any takers on, before we get to questions and answers, if we had any takers for... I see that we did. We will announce the winner of... Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I will do a blind mix and we'll see who gets a free lesson. Yes.

[31:46] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Everyone who has a book is already entitled to a half-price lesson, but one person's going to get to do it for free. And I can speak for myself. It is a joy. So, you will pull the name out? You want me to? I'm notoriously unlucky.

[32:01] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Well, don't tell them that. Oh, I'm going to read it. Okay. Here we go. Jenna Hotchhammer. Yes. Wonderful.

[32:23] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: That's great. We also have a few backup topics to discuss, but we would like to open it up to questions. She's a great person to pepper with questions, so I invite you to do it. I don't promise I'll have answers, but I'm happy to listen.

[32:39] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: She always has answers. Anything?

[32:41] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Anybody? Anybody want to know anything?

[32:44] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yes, Sarah, how are you? It's so great to see you. It's been a very long time.

[32:49] Sarah: I know. I haven't seen you. Just out of curiosity, do you have any Broadway performers in general that you would use as examples of good breath control, high notes, or just overall very good singers?

[33:01] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Well, I mean, most of them are incredible. I just need to repeat the question. So, the question was, are there any Broadway performers that you look to as examples of good vocal production, good technique? Did I get that right? Yes. My answer would be most of them that get anywhere have that down in spades, but I'm going to also say that the ones that open the shows, the big stars that open the shows, these songs, many of them are really tailored to what they do really well, too, in all fairness. Not everybody could do what they just did this well, but what they do do, they do extremely well. I mean, top of the line.

[33:44] Sarah: Are there any particular names, though, of Broadway performers? I mean, we can extend it even to current day or anybody that you look to and said, now there's a person. Like, for instance, I mean, on the pop side, you always like to point to, because he's so universal even today, thank goodness, the early days in particular of Frank Sinatra, you would talk about him. So, I'm just wondering if there's anybody who's on stage now or on stage in the heyday that you really thought, listen to that person, they're really doing it right.

[34:18] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Well, I'll be honest, I've only been back in New York since last December, so I've not seen, I don't think enough to be able to give you an intelligent answer to that, but I'm willing to bet that there have got to be a half a dozen at least or more, because I mean, a lot of these people have been so well trained and they're so talented to start.

[34:39] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Well, actually, I like the fact that you asked, I'd like to sort of turn that on its head, because one of the things that we went through so many things that we could talk about, one of the things that came up was the concept of song styling and the one thing that I, or style of singing, I should say more accurately, because Carolyn, I like to say, she is not an opera singing teacher, she's not a musical theater singing teacher, she's not a pop singing teacher, she's a what?

[35:11] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Singing teacher. Yeah. I teach singing, bring any style you like, Gregorian chant, whatever turns you on, I'll work on it.

[35:19] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Well, and sort of on the fly, I wonder, I mean, do you think that there's possibly, there are folks who teach a style, but I mean, it almost seems like that there's maybe a danger in that because there's tricks to get a result rather than a process of developing and uncovering a true voice and then layering on a style and obviously you make sure that when they're bringing the style to class, that they're still singing beautifully and with proper technique.

[35:51] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: What you can have is a situation where someone has an ambition or a fascination with singing in a certain way or singing certain rap, only that's not really what their voices are born to do. And so the teacher, I mean, I usually just try to get them to sing better and in the process, they figure it out themselves. They start asking, I mean, I remember a young man who came to me many years ago, musical theater, baritone, light baritone, started working with him. I didn't think he was a baritone, but I wasn't going to tell him. He was going to tell me, right? So I started teaching him and he started saying, these keys feel too low. Can we sing something higher? Can we sing? Sure, sure, sure. And then he got to a point where no musical theater songs were high enough.

And he said, what about an opera aria? No problem with me. So we went to opera and the man wound up singing character parts at the New York City Opera. And he started out in musical theater. Not that he wasn't good in musical theater, but his voice was much more. I mean, if you wanted to get further, he had more there that he hadn't explored yet. So all to say, but that comes as a result of working.

[37:10] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Anybody who thinks that they can meet somebody, hear them once and, oh yeah, this is where you belong. No, you don't know that. And that actually brings us to one of the other things that we talked about, because I suspect that some people see what you charge for a lesson and they might be kind of surprised because it's a little less, shall we say, than what we've seen. But tell us why, because it's not, I mean, the reasoning behind that. Because at the end of the day, if somebody can't come to voice lessons regularly because they can't afford it, if you're going to charge $600 for a 45-minute voice lesson, somebody has to work two months, three months in order to get the money to come to you.

You cannot, I don't care who you are, unless you have a magic wand you can wave, you cannot really improve anybody. You have to work with somebody regularly. They have to be able to come often, regularly, because these are muscles that you're training and coordinations, right? You can't do that if you don't see somebody all the time. It's an athleticism. It's like learning how to play tennis or playing golf. You have to do it a lot and you have to perfect it. Again, you can't do that. So I keep my price at the bottom line. I mean, I don't give my voice lessons away, but I don't overcharge either. I mean, I've been doing this a long time. And I have perfected it. I brought it all down to this, all down to this.

[38:45] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I wouldn't want to say that some of these teachers, I mean, they may bring some kind of credit and whatnot, but it just strikes me when I heard some of the prices that are out there that it seems rather transactional when just like with a doctor or with the person who styles your hair, you want a relationship, you know? And so people can do that when it's affordable. Any other questions out there?

[39:18] Audience Member: Oh, all right. I have a question about breath control. I can get my breath and I can belt out a big note and hold it from here to kingdom come, but a soft note, it feels like it is so much harder to have to control my breath for a softer note. And what do you recommend?

[39:43] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: All right. That is not breath. It's muscle. My chapter on registration would help you. You have to learn how to separate head voice from chest voice and to do it so that they balance each other, but are opposites. And then you'll find, I suspect you're probably pushing the breath a lot and your big high note has probably got a lot of muscle in it. So you have to learn how to lighten your voice and find that head voice and separate it out. Don't try to mix. Mix soft notes. No, you're going to run out of breath. And it's not really breath you're running out of. It's that the muscles won't, they just won't keep working.

[40:29] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yes, you can. Back to questions. I see a question. Yes, please.

[40:37] Audience Member: I have a medical question. A dancer who wants to be able to be considered for course that requires.

[40:48] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: That requires what?

[40:51] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Asking about it again. Yeah. We need to repeat the questions. Yes.

[40:55] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yes. I've taught many.

[40:58] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: The mother is very ambitious for the daughter.

[41:02] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Oops.

[41:05] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Uncovering Your True Voice.

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[51:05] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: And then you go as though it's going to work. I like to use an image sometimes of riding a horse. Jumping on the horse. Take a breath. Give that horse a kick. That is, start your voice. And then just try to guide it. Just guide it. But you can't be listening and singing at the same time. If you try to do that, what you're doing is you're looking at where you've been. You're driving a car, looking in the rearview mirror. By the time that sound has happened, we've heard it. You can't change it. You can't fix it. And you're not going to be very well set up for anything that follows. Because you are stuck in holding zone, waiting zone, waiting to hear it before I do what I have to do. No, that's the singer's imagination, you see.

[52:22] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: There was a – oh, gosh. I mean, there's so many stories about famous singers who created their own – the way in which they handled the stress and pressures of going out and singing on a stage, which is extremely vulnerable, was they played little mind games. I mean, I had a friend who – very successful opera singer. She said she used to see her voice. She could see it. And so she was controlling it by way of what she was seeing. Then there was another very famous lady who talked about a golden arch. She was an opera singer also. That when she walked on stage, she walked through this golden arch. And she stayed under that golden arch for the entire performance, even when she was in her dressing room, and didn't leave the golden arch until after her last curtain call. Okay. That's legitimate too. I mean, whatever it takes for you to go to that place and take all those risks and do what singers have to do, it's all legitimate. Whatever works for you works.

[53:26] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: I'm about to beat a dead horse. But I've got to go back to that because when we were talking, the other thing is that image worked so well with how you guide the horse too because we keep talking about muscling. For anybody who has ever ridden a horse or enjoys horseback riding, you're not yanking a rein this way or yanking a rein that way. It's a little pull here. It's a little pull there. If you want them to go faster, it's not – you're not kicking the heck out of it. It's a little tap, and it's those micro – I mean compared to a horse, I mean really those are micro adjustments, which I think really is a great metaphor for vocal technique.

[54:05] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: That's correct because there's no way you're forcing that horse to do anything. You're encouraging him, right?

[54:12] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yeah. You're guiding. You're encouraging. Good horsey. Good horsey. Go this way. Go that way. Well, but that's a little bit what goes on with singing too. You're breathing. You're going, and it's like now let's stay on this line. We know you're feeling a little bit off today, but you better not get off that line, honey. Just keep stirring it. Just keep stirring it. Just be a good horsey.

[54:34] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Back to the audience. We have time for maybe a question more or two, but we also don't have to – but this is your moment. Good. Take advantage of the moment. I love it.

[55:47] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: That already has an affinity for whatever it is that you're attracted to. Self-Truth is the discipline that allows you to access all the skills and coordinations required in order to be able to control this thing called singing, right? In this case, singing. And of course I teach that because at the end of the day, if you're coming to me for singing lessons, if I took you, and if you're progressing, self-one, there's talent, alright? You already have something in there that knows how to do this. Now self-two is the part where you now have to access the skills and the consistency of those skills. You can't just do it once. It's got to be that way every time, over and over and over again, because at the end of the day, nothing is completely dependable.

I mean, the voice is reliant on, you know, it's two little membranes that are the barometer of every chemical change in your body. At any given moment, something can go wrong. Something cannot, right? So that's what self-two is for. It's to keep you on that track. But self-one is what you shouldn't be thinking about or worrying about. It's already there. It was born in you. I mean, so many times people have come up to me and say, can you teach anybody to sing? Oh, hell no. No. No, not at all. No. People think, oh, anybody can learn how to sing. Oh, nothing could be more, not true. No, no. And even if I've even taught some people who had voices, I mean, they kind of, you know, they had one because mostly you think somebody tone deaf, you know, can you teach a tone deaf person to sing?

No, not at all. Some people though have a voice and some talent, but so limited that you can't get them past a certain point. Like that's as much as they, they're not going to go any further. So you either stay there and keep trying to find a moment when you might be able to catch them and move them a little further or just let them get bored. And eventually they probably leave because they're not really loving what they're doing because they're not really getting any better. But there are some that actually don't mind that, but most people do. Did that answer? Anybody have, did this kick anything up for anybody or is a burning question that you're just too shy? I encourage you not to be too shy and ask.

I have to say one thing about learning how to sing. It requires so much taking of risk because the singer doesn't hear and the singer can only feel what you've been able to get them to. So they can't imagine anything beyond that. So it's, you know, it's the teacher, the teacher's ear, the teacher's ability to imagine. Yeah. Imagination. Right. The ear and the imagination. What this voice is hiding, you know, what's hiding in there. Keep tweaking, keep correcting, try to get rid of some more, another flaw that is, seems pretty minor, but it could sometimes cover up something else that all of a sudden blossoms and takes the voice someplace else. I mean, I remember years ago I had friends, singers who were taking students and, and they knew how many, you know, the kind of hours I was, I was working.

And I remember one person that I remember specifically said to me, don't you get bored? Bored? Oh, no. I said, I can get tired. But every single singer standing in front of me is an entirely unique creature. I mean, voices can be similar in range and, you know, you've got lyric sopranos and you've got spinto sopranos and you've got contraltos. They may have different voice ranges and voice, different colors and whatever. But at the end of the day, every one, put me 10 contraltos in a row, they won't be too alike. They all sing in that same range and they all have the tone color for that material, whatever. But every single voice is unique to that particular person. And as the singing teacher, my job is to draw it all out and to try to get it to its best place, given the patience and, and, and desire and ambition of the singer.

You know, at the end of the day, some don't care that much. They just like to get up and sing karaoke and that's, that's enough for them. But then there are others that really want to be as good as they can be. And that's my job is to help them do that. Uncovering your true voice. There's nothing, nothing boring about that.

[1:00:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, no. And I mean, for, for those of you who haven't had the chance to just see Carolyn's face, when you surprised yourself and then you see that same expression of, of, I wouldn't say surprise for her, but delight. It's almost like you're surprised and she's like, I knew you'd get there. You know, there's nothing quite like it. I can, you see, the singer, the singer doesn't hear. Right. But, but experienced singing teachers with developed ear can hear. They're on the, you're on the verge of another, another pitch, right? I mean, it's like you hear, okay, you can't quite do it yet, but we can hear because of what you've done getting there. Right. That all of that's loosening up and all that's lightening up and all that's finding a better place. So it's just a question of time before the muscles can pull together the next note. I see. So while I was melting down, you were like, oh no, nope. It's just around the corner. You're getting there. Now I get it.

[1:01:36] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Alright. Well, I think that that really is a nice place to end. I, you know, how fortunate you all are to get to go home with Carolyn, if you will, but there's nothing like having her all to yourself, to yourselves in the studio. So I really encourage those of you who haven't had the opportunity to, um, give it a try. I think that, uh, give her a try. I think that she's, she's just a delight. And I guess by way of introduction to, I guess I, I, one thing I did miss in talking about myself is that I get to call her one of my dearest friends. So I think that, uh, I was just, I'm just so happy. Yeah. A long time. So I'm just so happy that I was, that we all thank you to Drama Bookshop. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to bring folks together and just delight in this. Thank you all. And your questions. Terrific. And now it's time to sign some books.

[1:02:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And we are back. And we were earlier talking about the next generation of composers and lyricists and writers, but we may have had the next generation of performers, musical theater singers here with us. And that was wonderful. And it was something that was really funny with this one in particular was I was chatting with the singers afterwards and we were just doing the networking thing. And I was like, yeah, I write musicals. Like I, by all means, take a look at my stuff. Here's my YouTube channel. Here's my Instagram and whatever. And if you see anything you like, email me and the sheet music is available, blah, blah, blah. And when I was like, oh, I write new musicals. One of the young women who was there was like, I have been trying this entire night to figure out where I knew you from. And I auditioned for you for a show in Florida. I love it. Wow.

[1:03:25] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: So kids, it's a small world.

[1:03:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It is a small world. One, I remember there's a couple of times where I've worked with people who have had events here or I, while we're chatting, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is somebody I've worked with. This is somebody like I've either performed or written with. But speaking of small worlds, I still remember, and it's because you're wearing the shirt that's reminding me right now, when I was in LAX leaving California.

[1:03:45] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: The smallest of worlds.

[1:03:47] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I know. On the other side of the country. And I stopped to get some food before I got on the flight and I saw somebody walking ahead of me and I was like, God, that looks like David. How funny. He's wearing a shirt that looks a lot like the Holy Cow shirt from the back, the same color. And then I heard them call out David for the food and you walked up. I was like, what are you doing in Los Angeles?

[1:04:08] David Rigano: Yeah, I was coming home from a wedding.

[1:04:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We were on the same flight.

[1:04:11] David Rigano: We were on the same flight. Yes, the smallest of worlds. And I was wearing my Holy Cow's shirt, the one that I am wearing.

[1:04:18] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: She's always wearing her show shirts. So your collaborators will recognize you when you're in an airport across the country. I didn't even know you were in California at that point.

[1:04:27] David Rigano: It was such a quick jaunt. Because the wedding wasn't in LA. The wedding was on top of a mountain. It was beautiful. Becca, your wedding was gorgeous. And I loved every second of being there. Driving up the mountain.

[1:04:46] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Oh, those were scary. I hated that when I lived out there.

[1:04:49] David Rigano: God. Once we were on the mountain, everything was beautiful. It was amazing. But, yeah, drive. And then I had tried to get in touch with some LA friends. Of course, you weren't going to be one of the LA friends.

[1:05:04] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Because I don't live in LA anymore.

[1:05:06] David Rigano: And then I had a job interview in LAX on my way in that I knew that I wasn't going to hear about. I didn't think I was going to get it. But I knew that the turnaround was so fast that if I got it, I had to be back in New York. So I actually cut my trip short by a couple of days. And then I didn't get the job as I expected not to get the job.

[1:05:33] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: But I just couldn't.

[1:05:34] David Rigano: Take the chance.

[1:05:35] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: In the small chance that I would have gotten it, I couldn't suddenly be in LA on a Wednesday and have to start this new job on Thursday and figure out how to get back to New York. And then by fate, we were all on the same flight. You, me, Rodrigo Paul, all of us together loved it.

[1:05:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Eating our food in LAX.

[1:05:53] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: But yes.

[1:05:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: At the same little restaurant. Just by chance, we went to that same restaurant. It's so crazy how small the world is, how small the theater world is, how small and musical the theater world is.

[1:06:05] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: But also, if y'all have not listened to the official studio demo of The Holy Cows of Crete in South Dakota, it is available on all major streaming platforms.

[1:06:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Absolutely.

[1:06:13] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: The cast is phenomenal.

[1:06:14] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Cast is great. The show is great. The music is great. The lyrics are great. The book is great. It's all-

[1:06:19] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Mark is in it.

[1:06:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I am. I forgot that I'm in it until actually recently I was listening to, not it, it was on Shuffle and-

[1:06:27] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: And that scene popped up?

[1:06:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That scene popped up. Mark's in a list of my favorite musicals. So it's hundreds of shows.

[1:06:35] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: So funny.

[1:06:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it just happened that one popped up as I was walking to work one day. I'm like, oh, that's me. That's me in my husband.

[1:06:41] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: I'm not going to give any spoilers for this in case you'll be listening to it for the first time. But there is a scene that is so pivotal that we decided that it should be on the album. And so Mark is not a singing character on the album.

[1:06:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: No.

[1:06:57] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: He's only on this track that is a scene. So that's just very funny to me.

[1:07:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I've also played that role twice on stage.

[1:07:04] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Yeah.

[1:07:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes. And it's pivotal and it's me.

[1:07:07] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: You played it at-

[1:07:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I played it at The Puzzle and I played it at Planet Connections.

[1:07:11] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: I did that role at Gallery.

[1:07:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[1:07:14] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Because I was already on stage doing the stage directions.

[1:07:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That was a night.

[1:07:18] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: That was a night.

[1:07:19] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[1:07:20] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: Which is a story for another time.

[1:07:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: A story for another time. But speaking of other times, we're going to talk about our next episode. Our next episode is The Sense Ability Ensemble's Guide to Creating Theater for Audiences That Are Neurodiverse by author Dion Odell. It was another event that we brought in actors and performers and created an entire showcase performance for everybody here. It was a great theatrical experience, showcased how to create for neurodiverse audiences, and it was just exciting and I can't wait to share it with you. So follow us on Instagram at Dramabookshowpodcast. Please subscribe to the Dramabookshop on Eventbrite so that you can be alerted when we add new in-person events to our calendar.

[1:08:07] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: And remember, all the books we talk about can be found here at the bookshop.

[1:08:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And so can we.

[1:08:11] Carolyn Marcell Elmore: We will see you at the bookshop!