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[0:00] Jackson Klein: The Ensemblist is brought to you in part by our new Patreon members, Cullen Elijah, Josh Fiedler, Joanne T. Garvin, Linda Lee, and Joey Soji.

[0:10] Jackson Klein: You can join them in supporting the work we do for as little as $5 a month.

[0:14] Jackson Klein: Learn how at patreon.com slash theensemblist.

[0:18] Jackson Klein: Some hearts can conform, fitting the norm.

[0:23] Jackson Klein: You're listening to Queer Characters on Broadway, a new miniseries from The Ensemblist.

[0:28] Jackson Klein: I'm your host, Jackson Klein.

[0:40] Jackson Klein: Welcome back, listeners. I hope you enjoyed our history lesson last week.

[0:44] Jackson Klein: Throughout the remainder of this miniseries, I want to dive into the minds of some of the queer artists who have recently played queer characters on Broadway.

[0:51] Jackson Klein: Last season, The Prom leapt onto the Broadway scene, delighting audiences with an original queer-themed musical just in time for the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots.

[1:01] Jackson Klein: In The Prom, teenage lesbian Emma Nolan is banned from attending her high school prom with her girlfriend, Alyssa.

[1:07] Jackson Klein: When a group of narcissistic Broadway performers hear the news, they travel to Indiana to help Emma and pick up some good press along the way.

[1:14] Jackson Klein: While this premise sounds quite humorous, which it is, The Prom also moved audiences with its great heart and depth.

[1:21] Jackson Klein: This week, we asked Caitlin Kinnunen, who received a Tony nomination for the role of Emma, into the studio to chat about her experience as a queer artist bringing this role to life.

[1:30] Jackson Klein: In addition to The Prom, Caitlin has performed on Broadway in Spring Awakening and The Bridges of Madison County.

[1:36] Jackson Klein: Here's our conversation.

[1:40] ♪ Musical number: "Just Breathe" — performed by Caitlin Kinnunen ♪

[1:54] Caitlin Kinnunen: Hi.

[1:57] Jackson Klein: Can you please introduce yourself and tell our listeners what neighborhood of New York City you live in?

[2:02] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yes, I'm Caitlin Kinnunen, and I live on the Upper East Side.

[2:06] Jackson Klein: Fabulous. Thanks for joining us today, Caitlin.

[2:08] Caitlin Kinnunen: Thanks for having me.

[2:09] Jackson Klein: We are here to talk all about queer representation in musical theater, particularly with your most recent Broadway role, Emma Nolan in The Prom.

[2:17] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yeah.

[2:18] Jackson Klein: Can you please tell us who Emma is?

[2:20] Caitlin Kinnunen: Emma is a 17-year-old girl who is unapologetically herself and just wants to take her girlfriend to The Prom.

[2:28] Jackson Klein: And everyone around her says, no, you can't do that.

[2:31] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yes, they do.

[2:34] Jackson Klein: And then a group of Broadway actors come in to try to save the day.

[2:37] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yes.

[2:38] Jackson Klein: Kind of fail at first, but eventually everything comes around and the day is saved.

[2:44] Caitlin Kinnunen: Correct.

[2:45] Jackson Klein: Can you tell us a little bit about your journey with the show? I know you were with it for a while before Broadway.

[2:49] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yeah, so I had been working on the show for, I think like beginning to end, it was five years. And so we did a 29-hour reading of it. Then we did a lab. Then we did an out of town. Then we did another lab. And then we were on Broadway this past season. And so, yeah, it was a long and lovely journey.

[3:09] Jackson Klein: Great. So as we've mentioned, Emma is a lesbian, teenage lesbian in Indiana. Do you think The Prom is an important piece of queer musical theater?

[3:20] Caitlin Kinnunen: I think it's an incredibly important piece of queer musical theater. I think it's one of the first pieces that represented a lesbian relationship in a positive light, and especially for LGBTQ plus youth of that age range, you know, for teenagers. It really let them see like, oh, no, we can be happy. We can live amazing full lives and have the love of our life and it'll be okay.

[3:47] Jackson Klein: Are there any moments in the show that really stood out to you as particularly notable?

[3:50] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yes. As far as queer representation? My favorite part of the whole show, Always and Forever, has been Unruly Heart. So it comes towards the end of Act Two. It's after all of the Broadway performers have come and tried to save the day, and they've held the fake prom, and things are sad and horrible, and she finally says, you know, screw it. I'm going to do this my way. I've got this. And she just opens her soul up for the world to see it. And she records it in her room on YouTube. And so, yeah, it's great. It's really the moment that you, this sounds like so cheesy, but it's the moment you see Emma's heart and you see all of her and you see her like completely vulnerable and just her stating exactly what she wants. And I think it's so important and so many people can connect to it no matter what your background is. And so doing that every night was really incredible.

[4:47] Jackson Klein: Did you feel a responsibility to the queer community when you were portraying Emma?

[4:50] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yes, very much so. I took it very seriously, and I never wanted to put words into other people's mouths. I think everyone's experience in life is completely individual, and so I tried to bring my experience but also keep it kind of open so that people could connect with her. But I felt a huge responsibility to just be my best self and be honest and be caring and to treat her with love and respect, and I think I did an okay job at that.

[5:21] Caitlin Kinnunen: But somehow I learned to see No matter what the world might say This heart is the best part of me.

[5:36] Jackson Klein: So as far as queer characters that had been written for women, there was Rent, there was Fun Home, that's kind of it. And both of those portray accurate people and people who are real human beings in life, but not ones that I could identify with. I'm not the overly sexual, powerful Maureen type, and I'm also not someone who's struggled with the death of their father and is trying to find themselves through that. That is great that those stories are being told, but it was so important to me to represent a queer youth that is just trying to live her best life. And so I think it's really important that they wrote this beautiful human being.

[6:27] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yeah, there just aren't enough queer women roles in musical theater in general. I mean, the fact that I can only name two off the top of my head is like, wait, what? That's not okay. I think Emma stood in the footsteps of every queer character. I think most queer people do step in the footsteps of queer people. You know, it's such a legacy and it's such a rich history and every single thing that a queer person does affects the next generation of LGBTQ+. So I think Emma really kind of was a culmination of all of it. I don't think there's one specific queer icon that she was like. I think she especially was like, no, we have to do better. We have to keep going. And so she took a little bit from everything and everyone.

[7:16] Caitlin Kinnunen: I did not feel the need to quote unquote present gay. I think some people think of that as a thing, but especially with Emma, she's just a human being. There was nothing about her that was like, oh, I'm gay. You know, that didn't matter. She was just trying to live her authentic life. And so there was no part of me that was like, oh, man, I have to really embody the gayness of Emma. You know, like I just kind of was like in my own body on stage. It was very cool, actually, that I could just kind of like be me on stage and not have to worry about like a physical element of it.

[7:58] Caitlin Kinnunen: I think it's funny because people I have really weird shoulders and they tend to be up towards my ears a lot of the time. And people assumed that that was a character choice that I was making to make Emma look awkward and uncomfortable. And I was like, no, that's just my body. That's not something I'm trying to do on stage. That's just happening.

[8:21] Jackson Klein: So, of course, you were making major strides at the Longacre every night. But during the course of the run, you and your fellow castmates did several press appearances on TV. You had the GLAAD Media Awards, the Tony Awards, the World Pride Closing Ceremony. What an exciting time for the show to play here.

[8:36] Caitlin Kinnunen: It was amazing. But I want to talk about one particular TV appearance, and that is the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in 2018.

[8:42] Caitlin Kinnunen: Yes.

[8:43] Jackson Klein: You and Isabelle McCalla, who played Alyssa, Emma's girlfriend in the show, made history by being the first people to share a queer kiss on the parade. What was that like?

[8:54] Caitlin Kinnunen: It was incredible. It just was a completely overwhelming and amazing and love-filled experience. We didn't really know how big of a deal it would be. We thought it was awesome, but then what the nation brought to us was just love and happiness. And seeing themselves portrayed on TV and in a family environment where it's like, no, love can look like this. Love does look like this. Families can be whatever you make them. And so it was really just wonderful to be a part of, and we are very grateful that we got to have that opportunity because it's really special. And it should have happened years ago, but it happened then, so we're good. Onward and upward.

[9:37] Caitlin Kinnunen: And it also made it clear, I think, that it's still a story that needs to be told beyond the celebration, because there was some pushback from audiences. And I think it was beautiful that you all were able to share that message of love and hope beyond that and give that message to those people especially.

[9:53] Caitlin Kinnunen: The show in general was really interesting because so many people, especially in New York, would come and see it and say, oh, well, we're good. This doesn't happen anymore. It does. And it actually happens every year. Every year there are proms that get canceled or students who are barred from going to their prom because they are.

[10:09] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[10:33] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[10:58] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[11:18] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[11:40] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[12:00] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[12:22] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[12:42] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[13:04] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[13:24] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[13:46] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[14:16] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[14:46] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[15:16] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[15:38] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[16:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[16:36] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[17:06] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[17:26] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[17:46] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[18:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[18:38] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[19:08] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.

[19:38] The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network: The Ensemblist & Broadway Podcast Network is a production of the Center for Autism and Related Disorders.