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[0:00] Christine Shepard: We should constantly be aspiring to reach higher and higher and higher. We should never be comfortable where we are. We should always be aspiring to know more and to better ourselves and to improve ourselves. Because that's how we improve the world around us, by working within us. You improve yourself. Light up the corner that you live on. You may not touch a gazillion lives, but you can light up your own space. Light up your home.

[0:57] Christine Shepard: Ta-da! I'm back! Hi guys, welcome to another episode of Chris Chats with Chigurl. First time or second time, I'm glad you're listening and I hope you can take away some great stuff from today's episode. Word. So, today I'm going to give y'all the lowdown on this gem of a place that I was fortunate enough to stumble upon recently. Radial Park is an interactive theatrical experience providing a safe space for new art to emerge amidst these uncertain times. They combine two media mediums, Broadway and drive-ins, to create a new form of entertainment. And I'm not going to lie, I dig it. I'm high-key obsessed with this concept, truly what I've been hoping would come from this universal metamorphosis we're all going through.

The track I started today's show with is an original by Miss Ari Grooves, who showcased her own intergalactic production at Radial Park on Halloween night. I'm going to swing it back one time for the one time, because when it bangs, it bangs, you know?

[2:23] Christine Shepard: Okay, so like, it's a giant parking lot in somewhere Queens, go Queens, and there's space for cars to park, a few rows of picnic tables, a food truck, a concession stand, and of course, a stage. Then above the stage, yes, above, there's an inflatable screen. Like, I swear I'm not making this up. This inflatable screen can show videos, including clips and movies, or live stream of what's happening on stage. Guys, like, come on, this is dope. My passion comes from the fact that I truly stumbled upon it. Like, everyone should know this place exists. How many times have you been trying to think of something to do that is either different from your norm, or social, but with space? And with the weather getting cold too?

Drive-ins? Duh. So yeah, I feel like I should spread the word. And I think you should too. And not just to the artist community. Just saying. At Ari's show, I met Chris Fink, a New York director and visionary who played a massive part in Radial Park's creation. I got a chance to sit down with him and gab about my new fave theater and what's in store for it. Hi, Chris. Thanks so much for being with me. I'm really excited. So let's go ahead and dive in. Can you give me a quick synopsis of how the park got started?

[4:00] Chris Fink: Radial Park came about because, basically, in the midst of the pandemic, and when everyone was sort of in isolation, a couple friends of mine had a music studio in Harlem that we kind of quarantined in together. We're kind of like everyone else, like, oh my gosh, when is the world going to be normal again? What do we do? How can we, you know, stay sane? Basically, because we have this large open air space, we thought, what if we started driving? And what if we do something that is socially distanced and safe in this space that we were kind of like working on pre-COVID? So we just kind of adapted to the circumstance and found a way to kind of really comb through all of the potential hazards, you know, because our number one thing has, of course, always been doing this safely and making sure that people feel comfortable to come and be at the space.

So once we were able to kind of parse those things out and put together a plan that made everyone feel comfortable on our side, we started building the place and got all of our permits together and got all of our team together, and here we are.

[5:08] Christine Shepard: Were there specific elements that you knew you wanted to include that were either different from other drive-in movie theaters you'd seen or outdoor theaters you'd seen and stuff like that?

[5:16] Chris Fink: Yeah, I mean, so obviously the live performance element was a key part of it for us, and the reason that I bring up the music studio is that we sort of found that the only thing that was kind of keeping us sane was each other, was being able to create together and being able to, like, have these moments of shared community. So the drive-in aspect of it and the outdoor aspect of it were really sort of symptoms of the greater cause, which is ultimately, like, bringing people together and letting people experience music and experience theater and experience community, because that's the thing that, you know, I feel like has been the most jarring through this strange year, is that, like, out of nowhere, we're all just like, oh, we can't hang out. Oh, yeah, all right. No, it's cool. Okay, yeah, for sure.

[6:06] Christine Shepard: How do you feel you guys are actively working towards achieving all of your initial goals that you guys have?

[6:13] Chris Fink: Yeah, I mean, again, to, like, steer it back, like, the mission really is community, so, like, one of the things that we've really been trying to do is, like, facilitate a space for artists to come and work together and create, and, you know, that comes along with some challenges, because people are still rightfully, you know, trepidatious about coming out into the world. We don't really have a path to tomorrow at this point, and I think that, like, one of the things that I'm proud that we have done is really cultivated a tight community of people who are comfortable existing in the space, and we're seeing that ripple out slowly as people are coming to, like, be a part of that.

[6:55] Chris Fink: Yeah, and I think, I don't know, it's definitely challenging, because, you know, just getting people to come participate has been our biggest kind of thing, and then once people are there, they're like, oh, it's huge, and it's safe, and like, I don't feel like people are on top of it, because frankly, they're not, you know, and once people kind of have that experience, that's sort of the immediate moment.

[7:15] Chris Fink: That's what happened to me, I really feel like that's what happened to me, being able to be there for the first time, and being like, oh my gosh, like.

[7:20] Christine Shepard: It's a little bit like normal.

[7:22] Chris Fink: Yeah, no, yeah, it's a new normal.

[7:24] Chris Fink: Now, it was a taste of an idea of a new normal that feels progressive, and has the potential to feel comfortable if it didn't feel initially comfortable, and things like that.

[7:35] Chris Fink: Absolutely, and, you know, in a normal world, you know, the exciting thing about the space is we do have the capacity to do some really, like, large, cool events there.

[7:43] Christine Shepard: Yeah.

[7:44] Chris Fink: But, like, in the meantime, you know, a couple hundred people is fine, because, you know, where in normal times it may be a couple thousand that can fit in that space, we just actually have the open area to be around each other without, you know, being endangered.

[8:00] Christine Shepard: Right, and still have, you know, more masses that won't even, I recently learned that in Jersey, you can rent out a movie theater.

[8:07] Chris Fink: Oh, really?

[8:07] Christine Shepard: Like, of whatever room for a movie theater, for however long the movie theater is, for like $100.

[8:12] Chris Fink: What?

[8:12] Christine Shepard: Because I think they're, you know, they're like, please come to our facility.

[8:18] Chris Fink: We can certainly sympathize.

[8:19] Christine Shepard: Right, right, right! I'm like, I understand.

[8:24] Christine Shepard: Who would you think are your guys' biggest competitors, and why?

[8:28] Chris Fink: Um, I mean, it's a strange thing to say, but I feel like our biggest competitor is public health.

[8:38] Christine Shepard: Wait.

[8:42] Chris Fink: I don't mean that our competition is public health in a bad way, I mean that, like, literally it's until science sort of, like, helps us arrive at a more safe place.

[8:52] Chris Fink: Right, the potential of what the park can be is kind of being held back a little bit by the circumstances in which it exists.

[8:59] Chris Fink: Absolutely, and, you know, we have, like, done what we think is appropriate in terms of, like, encouraging people that we're being safe, but also, at the end of the day, like, we're not going to be in the business of creating super spreader events, and we're not going to be in the business of, like, telling people, oh, come down, everything's fine, because...

[9:20] Chris Fink: I'm not going to pretend.

[9:22] Chris Fink: Oh, yeah, it's fine, come down, you're going to be safe, like, you know, I get that, that tribulation, so that's what we're up against.

[9:30] Christine Shepard: Yeah, time. Time is basically the number one kicker at this point.

[9:35] Christine Shepard: What do you think is in store for the future of live theater, and do you have any ideas of your own that you want to contribute to, I think, the inevitable evolution that it kind of has to go through?

[9:47] Chris Fink: I mean, I think that the...

[9:52] Chris Fink: It's sort of a multifaceted question to me because I think that like in addition to the public health realities of the future and how that will sort of interact with live entertainment, I think that this period has also really sort of shown a light on a broken model as far as like how theater is approached from a producing standpoint. I think that we are realizing, especially in New York, that the model that sort of has existed for quite a while now is one that is really based on commerce, and like that's okay, and there is a place for that. Yeah, there is a value to that, but we also are seeing that like the other theatrical experiences aren't able to survive, right? Something like this six-month, you know, year, year and a half, whatever it ends up being shut down, right, is already shaping Broadway to its core.

And so when we look at the smaller independent venues and we look at, you know, the non-profit venues around the city, these places simply are not going to survive, right? Because the model was sort of too close to the edge in what we'll call the before time.

[11:13] Chris Fink: At the end of the day, even something with the spending power of Broadway is looking at reopening and saying, "Hey, how the heck are we going to spend two million bucks or, you know, whatever it's going to cost to get our show back up and running without money can't get them out of the hole at this point?" Well, and also, you know, to the challenges that we're seeing at Radial Park, you know, we spend this money and then people aren't ready to come out and see shows for a month, and now we're operating at, you know, a multi-million dollar loss because people just aren't ready. Yeah, there's no way to gauge that. There's no way to know. I mean, we could look at pre-sales, we can sort of like take some measures, but also we don't know what legislation is going to be, right?

So it's untenable for a Broadway house to operate at 25 or 50 percent capacity, and this is a conversation that's been going on for the whole year, right? You know what I mean? And there's no new answers, and it's sort of like, you know, these Broadway meetings that are happening, whatever, whatever, there's sort of the same answer coming out of them, which is, "Well, the model doesn't work. We have to find a way to equitably sort of incite community," because at the end of the day, the problem with the sort of like commercialized side of theater—and again, it has its value, and I'm not knocking it at all—what I am saying is that like this other thing is important too, and ultimately the great performers and the great shows that we all have come to know and love are birthed from that place, right?

Right? Like Stephen Schwartz didn't write Pippin from, you know, the Music Box Theatre; he wrote it at his college with his friends and hanging out, like, you know what I mean? Like that's how these things happen, right? But we also need to like make sure that artists can survive. So when we're looking at, you know, and I don't necessarily blame producers either because look, it's expensive to put a show up in New York because real estate costs a lot of money, right? You know, and I hate to keep going back to that, but you know, it's hard to ignore some, you know, you know, and even, even, you know, look, again, I direct plays; I'm not a real estate investor or a real estate sort of analyst, like, but by my estimation, the reason why we can't pay our artists is because we're paying our landlords, and like two plus two did equal four, you know what I mean?

[13:29] Chris Fink: Yeah, so I think that that's the biggest change that just like has to happen or we're going to be in a play. I mean, even from a business sense, does it make more sense to sort of pilot what's going on, even if you're using the Broadway theaters, right, and spend a couple of million bucks to find out that people aren't ready, or does it make sense to spend a couple hundred thousand dollars and make sure that the artists who are desperate, "Hey, we're dying. We're out here dying. Everyone give us a job. Help us create something. Help us get back together. Help us like do the thing that makes people, pardon my French, give a shit about us in the first place and make us feel something." Like this is the missing piece, and like the people who like seemed like they knew that, right, are out here like, "Oh, well, when are we ever going to get to get back together?"

I mean, who can afford it? You actually, I just think it is so crucial the investment in things like the park, you know what I mean? Independent works and the survival of your artists because it is not only a representation of like what we've learned from the past but how we can try to form this quote-unquote better future that we kept talking about. I mean, look at something like Ari's show, you know, the thing that we did together. Yes, Ari, you know, first of all, is a force, but within that, she pretty much single-handedly made that show in less than two weeks. Yeah, I mean, imagine if she has a team with her. Imagine if she has space to like actually bring everyone together in time to time, you know what I mean?

But, and look, hey, it was a pretty cool thing. We did it. It made all of us feel something, and you know, the whatever, 50, 60 people that came out that night, right? We all had a community moment, and the feedback from that is the same. The feedback from most every show that we've done has been, "Oh my God, I didn't realize how much I missed this. I needed this." Yep, you know, that's how bad it actually is. Oh wow, I'm back in the middle of this and how I remember how nice it is, you know, how essential it is.

[16:02] Chris Fink: Totally, no, yeah. So what are even other locations like? Like, do they exist? Why not? I don't know. I just feel like, look, frankly, the business doesn't make sense that much, right? So if we're talking about the same kind of conversation that we've been having, you're not going to get rich off of the model that we put together, right? You know, so as far as like other, why are other people doing this? I think that the finances, you know, this is something that I'm very sort of lucky and thankful to have, you know, Jeremy Shepherd, our executive producer, and the Garrisons' space. Like they have decided that it is more important to have this thing exist and give people community if they want it than it is to have a fat bottom line.

And you know, that is obviously not something that is sustainable forever, but they have taken a chance on saying, "Okay, yeah, we're going to invest in the arts. We're going to invest in creating a community," and it just unfortunately is not, you know, no investor or no sort of like commercial producer is going to look at what we're doing and say, "Oh wow, this is a home run," right? Because frankly, until we can have a higher capacity, which like one day will happen, but like for now the numbers aren't good, you know?

[17:11] Chris Fink: Yeah, just so I think that's all right. Last question: what would be the best contribution to the park to help stay afloat through the pandemic? And we know, um, numero uno, of course. Yeah, I mean, numero uno, we have a GoFundMe set up. If you got some money laying around and you want to support artists directly in New York City, we are definitely going to do that. But also, really earnestly, it's community, you know, and we are really, really, really impassioned to have artists come down and do work and be a part of what we're putting together. And, you know, we have to again sort of be aware and cautious and sensitive to where we are in a public health sense, but also like we got space. We're out here, and if, you know, giving money or even buying a ticket to something is not something that you can do, I'm Chris Fink, and I'm on Instagram and I'm on Facebook. Hit me up. I'd love to see you.

[18:14] Chris Fink: With our phones that trap us in the virtual world sometimes can actually benefit us in the real world if we actually use absolutely tools instead of, yeah. And, you know, I, you know, I've looked, I've been in the position plenty of times where it's like, "Oh yeah, I mean, you know, I'd like to reach out," but like do it. Yeah, we want to see you come hang out. Yeah, I mean, I think it's coming out.

[18:45] Christine Shepard: The Ensemblist was produced today by Mo Brady, Jackson Klein, and me, Christine Shepard. There are two great ways you can be helping The Ensemblist right now. One is by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. The second is by becoming a Patreon member at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. Please follow The Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts, whether that be on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or at our home on Broadway Podcast Network at bpn.fm. Thanks for listening. Until next time.