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[0:00] Mo Brady: The Ensemblist is brought to you in part by our Patreon members, including Phoebe Stewart, Linda Lee, Cheryl Hodges-Selden, Cat Hicks, and many, many more. Our Patreon is now a chock-a-block of exclusive listens for members like them. Don't miss out on the fun! Join them at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. I'm Mo Brady.

[0:34] Mo Brady: After speaking to producer Eva Price about the commercial Broadway theater, awards for performances seem to be the kind of thing that can make or break a show's life. So, if awards ultimately behoove the theatrical landscape, why not have more of them? Well, that's exactly what happened in 2020 when a new awards ceremony was added to the New York theatrical industry, the Antonyo Awards. The Antonyo Awards were created in 2020 by Drew Shade and Broadway Black, an organization that supports Black theater. Named as a light-hearted reference to the Tony Awards, these awards acknowledged Black artists from both the Broadway and Off-Broadway theater communities. The inaugural ceremony was produced by Shade and a committee of associates, including performer Darius Barnes.

Darius made his Broadway debut as a replacement in the Tony Award-winning musical Memphis in 2011. In the decade since, he's performed in five additional Broadway musicals, as a replacement in Mean Girls, Cinderella, and Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark, and an original company member in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and the 2019 revival of Kiss Me, Kate. He's also slated to open the new Broadway show MJ the Musical when Broadway returns. In addition to his obviously busy performing schedule, he worked on the production team of the Antonyo Awards. He recently joined me to talk about how the team created an awards ceremony from scratch, and why he made the decision ultimately not to include a category for Best Ensemble. Here's our conversation.

[2:33] Mo Brady: Hi, would you introduce yourself and tell us where you're calling from today?

[2:36] Darius Barnes: Hi, my name is Darius Barnes and I am in New York.

[2:40] Mo Brady: So you were on the producing team of the first annual, the inaugural Antonyo Awards, correct?

[2:46] Darius Barnes: Yes, and Drew Shade of Broadway Black and the Black Theater Society.

[2:52] Mo Brady: For the uninitiated, what are the Antonyo Awards?

[2:55] Darius Barnes: Sure, the Antonyo Awards are a celebration of Blackness, of Black art, of theater artists who are Black, and their contribution to the theater. It was a ceremony looking to sort of fill the gap between acknowledgement and Black talent. We wanted to do something that highlighted everything that myself, people who have come before me have contributed to theater. Theater was shut down and we wanted to do something. Drew wanted to do something. He had this idea in his brain for years. And we had this initial meeting, just the idea just sounded so great and celebrating the community that has built theater and built these shows that are so beloved and get us through the hard times. We celebrate our birthdays with, or we start our mornings with, or we go to sleep listening to, you know, these show tunes.

The idea behind it was celebrating the community, not one individual person at all. The collection of everyone, of every artist who's ever done a show that's made an impact, that's touched someone, that's made somebody want to do this or change the way they look at the world or affected all of us. So it was really a ceremony geared to show us, have us be seen, have us be heard, have us be celebrated. I feel like we accomplished that. It was a beautiful day, Juneteenth, you know, when it premiered. I think we were all thrilled with how it turned out.

[4:25] Mo Brady: Yeah, it was very well produced. And that, I guess, leads me to my next question, which is great idea, inspiring idea. So many of us have great, inspiring ideas, and we don't make them happen. And you guys made it happen. Talk about the process of taking this great idea and birthing it into the world. Like, how did you actually make that happen?

[4:44] Darius Barnes: I don't know. I don't know. Well, what I will say is because of the shutdown, we sort of lucked out in that the world was sort of at a standstill. Right now, we are still in a pandemic, but we're in, like, pandemic life. Like, everybody's working and, like, starting to do things. Theater's not back, but somehow theater artists are busy either doing things on Zoom or doing readings. Somehow we're all figuring out this virtual thing. At the time, we really hadn't figured out much virtually. People were, like, teaching classes and starting to do readings, and Zoom was becoming synonymous with everyone's day. We lucked out in that a lot of people were not doing anything. Drew had a meeting that he pulled us all into.

Myself and Alan Lewis, who was the musical director, supervisor for the show, and Neville Braithwaite, who was the editor, and Kim Exum, Catherine Caldwell, who were also producers on the show. Yeah, he was like, I have this idea. I pulled you all in. I think we could make this thing happen. What do you guys think? And we were all like, yes! And then it was like, okay, we have to make this thing happen. How are we going to do it? Immediately, my thing initially was talent. Like, who did we want to be a part of it? And if we were going to do an awards show, who would fit for what sort of, like, award? Really, it was reaching out to people to, like, get them a part of this thing that they had no idea what it was.

We had meetings with everyone. We sent out sort of an invite or, like, an offer. And we all sort of spitball ideas for, like, numbers and openings. Alan, one meeting overnight, came in with this song, the opening song for the show, which is original. He wrote it out of his genius brain. It just instantly felt like everything we were talking about. We're sitting still. What is going on with theater? All of these things are coming to light about theater and inequities, theater possibly being, you know, racist. It just nailed it. Like, how we feel, how we want to be seen, how we want to be celebrated, how majestic we are and great we are. And he just nailed it. It sort of put a fire under us even more to make it as good as the song.

And it didn't really change. It did not change from his opening sort of template of it. But then we sort of had to, like, figure out how we were going to do that and how do we film it and how do we get all of these people involved? I had to figure out how to put choreography together that everybody could do on Zoom. How do I orchestrate it to make it look like an opening number of any award show that you've ever seen, but everybody's in their house and sending in essentially self-tapes? We didn't have a whole bunch of examples. I think the Lortels were before us and the Drama Desks happened, but they were mainly like, here's an award. This person won. Yay. Move on to the next category. It wasn't like a show.

And we wanted a show with, like, musical numbers and little skits. As we would figure out numbers, we'd be like, ooh, this is a dream person. Ooh, this is a dream person. Ooh, this is a dream person. Can we get these people that we think would be perfect for these things that we're thinking of? They all happened at once and all snowballed. Magical things happened in the last two weeks, like Sasha Allen singing the national anthem literally happened in the last two weeks. That was not in the show. And then all of a sudden it was, and she was singing it. And I was like, what a win! Thank you, friend, for singing the song. And Allen did an incredible arrangement. It was one of those things. We all hope every project is amazing, right?

And we all hope that everybody's on one accord on every project. But art is this weird lightning in a bottle thing where all of that can happen and it doesn't work out. Or everybody can be on one accord and you're not gelling and people aren't getting along or people aren't hearing each other and they're not communicating. And it was one of those lightning in a bottle. Everyone got along. Drew and I were, he would just have an idea, call me and be like, what do you think of this? And we would like talk it out until it became a bigger idea. Shoot it over to Allen and, Allen, can you musicalize this idea? And then it was like magically in the show. And we were just working on all cylinders and up until four and five o'clock in the morning thinking of ideas and Allen turning songs around.

I mean, we hit the ground running from like start to finish six weeks. The first meeting that Drew had us all on a call on was like May 2nd. But that's, like you said, sort of the gift of this time. And also what a gift to you to have something to creatively, spiritually like sink your teeth into in a moment where so few people have something to sort of grab onto creatively.

[9:25] Darius Barnes: It saved me, actually. Drew and I were talking about that. We had several talks about it. So we had our first meeting and instantly started planning May 2nd, and then George Floyd happened three weeks later, two weeks later. It was interesting because immediately the country was in disarray. There were like marches starting and things like that, and it was an interesting time because it was like marches starting, but we were still in the house. Being around each other wasn't quite a thing yet, but you couldn't not march if you were Black. You couldn't not be affected. You could not cry. You couldn't not be touched or upset or emotional in some way. And so that led to people being outside and marching for their lives.

We were working on this thing. We were so focused that it was a protective bubble of Black joy. It kept us safe. I couldn't even take in too much of anything, really. I couldn't really watch the news. If I saw anything, it really was on social media, but we didn't have time. I did not have time to sit and take in news. I was on the phone with Drew constantly thinking of a show, conceptualizing things, or on the phone with Alan or on the phone with Neville or Kat or Kim. It really protected us. It really was like a cocoon of joy, something positive to work on when the world around us was collapsing and going to shit, quite honestly. For that moment in time, it really protected us and gave us light in a moment that was really, really dark for a lot of Black people.

[10:52] Mo Brady: You sort of did two things simultaneously, which is you found the moment, which was this virtual thing, and you sort of created it. And perhaps it was a little easier to create or felt serendipitous because of the pandemic and the time we were in and the sort of focus on Black people, both in our industry and just in our country. And then the second thing is you set up the first annual, the inaugural thing that is supposed to, I would assume, live outside of pandemic, but to continue on. What are the conversations that you've had since the successful 2020 version about creating the next one?

[11:26] Darius Barnes: A lot of conversations. Based on the number of conversations you had for the first one, I assumed that you've been thinking about it. It's funny because right away, off of the high of the first one, it was like, yeah, I can't wait for next year. And then people get busy. Nobody was paid for that. Everyone just gave of and supported and donated, which I am so grateful for. What do we celebrate when there's been a year with no theater? But how can we still be intentional and make the community feel seen and feel heard and feel appreciated again? I can't really say too much as to what is happening. We're thinking of things moving forward to continue on because that was the first. So we are looking to continue.

Absolutely. One of the reasons I wanted to talk to you about the Antonios was because I've been thinking about how to celebrate ensembles. What you all did with the Antonios is so incredible to have gone from nothing and created something. Not included in the Antonios is a category for ensemble. I'm wondering, did it come up? Did it not come up?

[12:30] Darius Barnes: It definitely came up because I'm an ensemblist. I'm proud to have been in six Broadway shows and the ensembles and covered roles. And I love being in an ensemble. I love being a part of people to create a thing. I mean, I also like being on zero. That's fun. But being on mass is something different and collaborating and working alongside or partnering with people, I think always makes art better. It makes the idea larger than just you and I'm better and people are more touched by the larger idea always. The only award show that I've been to is the Cheetah Awards. They have an ensemble award, which I love. And I've only been to one of them, King Kong one. So when we were talking about it, what are we actually honoring?

For me, it's a very difficult, even with me being in the ensemble, it's a very difficult category. And as badly as I want it, especially as a part of the Tonys, I would love. But it's like, I don't know exactly what is being honored by an ensemble award. Yes, the work being done, but the best musical is also the ensemble award, I feel like. That being said, who accepts the ensemble award? It's 25 people working as one. Who speaks on behalf? Is it the dance captain? The dance captain is kind of not in the show sometimes. It's so many variables to the ensemble award. I voted no. I don't know how we honor everyone equally in the ensemble if we do an ensemble award. I still don't know how to honor us.

What are we nominating? Every ensemble is working hard. If it's 12 people, or if it's three people, how do you honor everyone evenly? Because that's what you're saying, like everyone in this has made this amazing, which is true, and everybody's work should be honored. But how do we actually do that evenly? How do we let everyone have a chance and have a moment to speak and feel that their work is honored? It's very hard, and I don't have an answer to it.

[14:32] Mo Brady: In the dialogue that you were having about whether or not to include an ensemble award, what were some of the reasons that made you go, yeah, maybe we should?

[14:37] Darius Barnes: Because I'm an ensemblist. Maybe we should because everyone in Carolina Change is amazing. Everyone in Tina was working their butts off eight times a week. Going deeper into the conversation, it's like how do you actually honor that? And when they win, who wins? Who accepts? We were like trying to get acceptance speeches. How do we put up 25 people who are speaking at the same time? You know what I mean? I don't feel like you can have one person speak. And if you do have one person speak who represents the whole, who is that? I don't have the answer to that question either. You're getting to two questions, which is what is being celebrated and then the logistics of making it happen. Are we saying that everyone in the show gets awarded together for collaborative storytelling, or are we pulling out the dancers basically, the dancers and the singers?

For Kiss Me Kate, is it the entire company or is it those people that perform too darn hot? Because that is an incredible piece of theater that deserves to be celebrated. And I would have loved an award for it, quite honestly. I think we all would have. One of the hardest numbers I've ever done in my career, eight times a week on the Today Show, on the Tonys, we did it everywhere because Warren's choreography deserved to be seen everywhere. It was amazing. It was an ensemble number. And it's rare that you get those numbers that's like, here is the cast and the whole cast is about to wear you out. Like everyone's going to turn, everyone's going to jump, everyone's going to kick their legs. We're going to dance you into the ground for nine minutes and you're going to rise to your feet.

[16:10] Darius Barnes: One of the first shows I saw was Fosse and I was blown away as like an 11, 12 year old kid. It was a whole show of triple threats, dancers who sang and acted. I'd never seen anything like that. If that was an ensemble award, who would have everyone evenly, people were featured and people danced in an ensemble, who would have gotten that award? Everyone, but like then who speaks to what it meant to do that work and build it. And if everyone doesn't, I feel like you're not honoring the ensemble for real. You know what I mean? Yeah, if the goal is to celebrate this team effort, pull someone out and say they speak for us. I've had conversations with the president of Outer Critics Circle. He says I want to give an award to ensemble but we have a sit down dinner and if I invite all of the nominees for best ensemble, I've just added 150 plates to our sit down dinner and I don't have the money to do that.

You don't have the money to make these statues. I mean, whether or not people actually have the money or it's like finding money in a budget, what we're getting at is not what is to be celebrated, but how do we celebrate them? It's really hard. And I think that's it. It's not that the ensemble shouldn't be celebrated. They should and there should be an award and I don't know what the award actually is because I don't know if it's best ensemble. I'll just be specific. I don't know if that's the title of the award. How are all of these people honored evenly? What is hard about it? Because essentially you're honoring the company of the show, which is really difficult to do. I guess he was kind of saying the same thing we were.

Plates is equal to like simple airtime. How do I let everybody speak evenly even if I give everyone five to ten seconds? But then that's not it's like is that worth five to ten seconds per person? That's not fair. It's hard.

[18:03] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Darius Barnes for sharing his stories with us today. The Ensemblist was produced today by Anna Alltide, Jackson Klein, and me, Mo Brady. Please rate and review The Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or at bpn.fm, the home of Broadway Podcast Network. Our Patreon members have on-demand access to our archive, including full conversations with guests and early access to episodes. You can join Christopher Gurr, my dad, Patrick Brady, and many, many more for between $5 and $20 a month at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. Thanks for listening. Until next time.