This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Ramin Karimloo: Hi, I'm Ramin Karimloo, and welcome to my podcast, The Hang, where I get to hang out with some of my friends and get some much-needed face-to-face time and talk about, well, whatever.

[0:13] Ramin Karimloo: Today, I get some face-to-face time with Lambert Jackson.

[0:17] Ramin Karimloo: Lambert Jackson is a production company dedicated to producing musical theatre shows and stunning one-night performances.

[0:23] Ramin Karimloo: Founded by Jamie Lambert, CEO, and Eliza Jackson, Creative Director, the company made its debut at Cadogan Hall in August 2018 with There's Nothing Like a Dame, 100 Years of Women in Musical Theatre.

[0:37] Ramin Karimloo: We worked together for the first time with the production company's biggest success to date in the sellout and critically acclaimed UK premiere of Dr. Zhivago.

[0:45] Ramin Karimloo: In our Hang, we talk about new writing, their goals on casting, diversity, and I learn about how amazing they are and what they're doing and how beautiful they are as human beings.

[0:53] Ramin Karimloo: I'm so fortunate that they are also my friends. I'm grateful for The Hang.

[0:57] Ramin Karimloo: Welcome to The Hang. Today, we have the wonderful Jamie Lambert and Eliza Jackson, otherwise known as Lambert Jackson Productions.

[1:12] Ramin Karimloo: Did I do that correctly? Did I say it correctly?

[1:13] Jamie Lambert: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we've ever been produced so poshly.

[1:16] Eliza Jackson: Poshly? Poshly and quite French?

[1:18] Jamie Lambert: Announced would be the word, not produced.

[1:20] Ramin Karimloo: There we go.

[1:21] Ramin Karimloo: Oh, I'm not thinking straight.

[1:22] Ramin Karimloo: I think Jamie's going to do all the talking today.

[1:24] Eliza Jackson: I don't think so. You'd be surprised. Eliza's the kind of person who says that she doesn't want to do interviews and then suddenly she is the interviewer.

[1:29] Jamie Lambert: No, don't. Don't. This is too much pressure. I can't cope.

[1:33] Ramin Karimloo: So, Lambert Jackson Productions.

[1:35] Jamie Lambert: Yes!

[1:36] Ramin Karimloo: How did it all start? Because we know you've got, you're in collateral.

[1:40] Eliza Jackson: Where did you train?

[1:42] Jamie Lambert: So, I trained classically. I did a mentorship scheme with English National Opera.

[1:46] Jamie Lambert: And that was like a youth thing where one of the principals, when they had principals, took me under his wing and trained me for a couple of years.

[1:54] Jamie Lambert: And then I decided that I still wanted to do opera, but wanted to get a degree first.

[1:59] Jamie Lambert: Because in opera, male voices, they mature, you know this, they mature much later.

[2:04] Jamie Lambert: So, I had time. So, I went to do a degree in Spanish.

[2:06] Eliza Jackson: Wow!

[2:07] Jamie Lambert: And then I moved down to London and went to a little place called the Associated Studios with a lady called Leontyne Haas, where I met Eliza, who had already trained at the National Institute for Dramatic Art in Sydney.

[2:18] Eliza Jackson: Correct, in Sydney, in Australia.

[2:19] Jamie Lambert: Which is like their RADA. Very, very, very, very posh and very highbrow.

[2:23] Eliza Jackson: Oh, thanks.

[2:24] Jamie Lambert: And very hard to get into, so she's very good.

[2:26] Eliza Jackson: Oh, good for you.

[2:27] Jamie Lambert: And she came over to do the same course as I did, which was like a conversion course to meet people in London, like agents and creatives and stuff.

[2:34] Ramin Karimloo: And did you go straight from that to collateral or did you do West End?

[2:37] Eliza Jackson: No, well, Eliza and I both auditioned for years for West End stuff.

[2:42] Jamie Lambert: Really?

[2:43] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, we did.

[2:44] Jamie Lambert: Yeah.

[2:45] Ramin Karimloo: And Eliza, you didn't get in?

[2:46] Eliza Jackson: Babe, it was, I think, I think perhaps maybe I'm quite niche. And I think maybe my talents didn't fit perfectly into the little boxes that sometimes the West End has already established.

[3:00] Eliza Jackson: So I had some success in smaller things and then I wrote my own show, which was kind of how we ended up getting into producing, because we decided that would be the first show that we would produce.

[3:11] Eliza Jackson: We took it up to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

[3:12] Jamie Lambert: Which did phenomenally well.

[3:13] Eliza Jackson: And it was called The Voice Behind the Stars, which was a story about Marnie Nixon.

[3:18] Jamie Lambert: She was probably the most prolific voiceover artist who sang, she dubbed for all the voices like Marilyn Monroe, Deborah Carr.

[3:25] Eliza Jackson: Wow.

[3:26] Jamie Lambert: Yeah, really cool story.

[3:27] Ramin Karimloo: And is this something you wrote?

[3:28] Eliza Jackson: I wrote it.

[3:29] Eliza Jackson: We produced it.

[3:30] Eliza Jackson: And I performed in it.

[3:32] Eliza Jackson: And we got, we actually made money at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

[3:35] Eliza Jackson: And we got five star reviews across the board.

[3:37] Eliza Jackson: And made money off an amazing, massive tour that we did of Australia with it, which ended at the Perth Fringe Festival.

[3:44] Jamie Lambert: Really?

[3:45] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, it was cool.

[3:46] Eliza Jackson: It was amazing.

[3:47] Eliza Jackson: And the reaction to the show was fantastic.

[3:49] Jamie Lambert: I mean, you have, we're talking like five star reviews from Broadway World across the board.

[3:52] Eliza Jackson: Like it was, it was brilliant.

[3:53] Ramin Karimloo: Excuse my ignorance. What was the character's name?

[3:57] Eliza Jackson: Marnie Nixon.

[3:58] Ramin Karimloo: Marnie Nixon.

[3:59] Eliza Jackson: Marnie Nixon, yeah.

[4:00] Ramin Karimloo: So she, you'd know her voice from the movie soundtracks from West Side Story.

[4:05] Eliza Jackson: My Fair Lady.

[4:06] Ramin Karimloo: My Fair Lady.

[4:07] Eliza Jackson: She sang I Could Have Danced All Night.

[4:09] Ramin Karimloo: That was her.

[4:10] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, Audrey Hepburn's voice.

[4:12] Ramin Karimloo: Is it because I know nothing about the industry I'm in that I don't know this name?

[4:16] Eliza Jackson: Or is that the whole point?

[4:17] Jamie Lambert: No, this is the whole point.

[4:18] Jamie Lambert: That it was so, it was such a secret subject.

[4:21] Jamie Lambert: There was a lot of people who were dubbed.

[4:23] Jamie Lambert: So for West Side Story, the movie, there was, I think, six lead characters. Five out of the six, their singing voices were dubbed.

[4:27] Eliza Jackson: That's amazing, isn't it?

[4:32] Jamie Lambert: That's very interesting because, you know, sometimes you get.

[4:34] Eliza Jackson: But she did end up having a role in The Sound of Music, didn't she?

[4:38] Jamie Lambert: Yeah, so that she only ever had one. She had over 200 dubbing credits to her name and she had one on-screen credit.

[4:45] Eliza Jackson: Her life was just incredible.

[4:48] Ramin Karimloo: And who is it? How was it? You were telling me a story about how she dubbed for a movie.

[4:55] Eliza Jackson: I think it was West Side Story. And the only reason that she got any money out of it was because Bernstein actually gave her one of his producer points.

[5:03] Jamie Lambert: That's correct.

[5:04] Eliza Jackson: So she basically got no credit, like absolutely no credit.

[5:07] Eliza Jackson: She has credit now, but we're talking like 50 years after the case.

[5:11] Jamie Lambert: So no credit, very little pay. Like she got $200 for her work on My Fair Lady.

[5:17] Eliza Jackson: Which was obviously worldwide smash hit.

[5:20] Jamie Lambert: And she is the actual voice on I Could Have Danced All Night.

[5:23] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, you would have grown up listening to her voice, but you had no idea.

[5:27] Jamie Lambert: We need more stories about these strong, incredible women.

[5:32] Eliza Jackson: This is why it was so successful.

[5:33] Eliza Jackson: Every single person said how, every reviewer said how fantastic it was to have seen something that actually they knew basically very little about.

[5:43] Jamie Lambert: Yeah, with a review saying, how do we not know this woman?

[5:45] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, and the amount of people, especially probably the older generation who grew up going to those films in the cinema, they'd come up to me and be like, I have gone my whole life without knowing this information.

[5:58] Eliza Jackson: Like I thought I was a massive fan of these films and of these actors and I knew nothing.

[6:02] Jamie Lambert: And it touched people.

[6:03] Eliza Jackson: Yeah.

[6:04] Eliza Jackson: It genuinely did, both here and in Oz.

[6:06] Jamie Lambert: Same reaction from everybody was that it was a piece that really spoke to them.

[6:11] Ramin Karimloo: Can we get the story back up on its feet? Where is it now?

[6:14] Eliza Jackson: It's there and ready, isn't it?

[6:17] Jamie Lambert: You still got the rights to your own show, obviously.

[6:19] Eliza Jackson: I have the rights to the show as I've written it. Getting the rights to the songs is a trickier situation because obviously there's the Rodgers and Hammerstein stuff. There's the Bernstein stuff.

[6:28] Jamie Lambert: It's something we found really, really frustrating because it's different in the UK than it is in Oz.

[6:36] Eliza Jackson: But in Oz, we managed to sort it. It was still very expensive. They take quite a large cut of the box office for some minimum spend.

[6:42] Jamie Lambert: And there were some songs that we weren't allowed to use or like I had to send so many different scripts with markings on how the themes would be used and like that I wouldn't be manipulating the story or, you know, putting anyone in a bad light.

[6:58] Eliza Jackson: So there was quite a lot of rewriting had to happen.

[7:01] Jamie Lambert: Part of that is fair, I think.

[7:03] Eliza Jackson: A hundred percent.

[7:04] Eliza Jackson: I think that this is one of the first things we learned as producers from this show was that actually it's a lot of the times.

[7:12] Jamie Lambert: Now, we've been very lucky in our most recent productions, A, with Dr. Zhivago and B, with Secret Garden, to work with really good people who are the guys that curate the rights.

[7:25] Jamie Lambert: For example, MTI or Samuel French, really helpful, genuinely want you to do the shows, want you to produce things.

[7:32] Eliza Jackson: And we couldn't speak more highly of them.

[7:33] Jamie Lambert: But there have been rights holders who we've contacted who have been incredibly difficult to the point where it stifles young producers and young artists and young writers.

[7:44] Eliza Jackson: And I think there is a case for people to say that.

[7:47] Jamie Lambert: Obviously, some people will come back to that and say, well, you should write your own stuff. That's all very well and good. But does that mean that we shouldn't celebrate things that have been written in the past?

[7:55] Eliza Jackson: And these stories will die. These songs will die if they can't get a new life.

[8:00] Jamie Lambert: And the thing is, anyone who saw the show knows that it was such a celebration of this music.

[8:05] Eliza Jackson: It was unbelievable.

[8:07] Ramin Karimloo: So the only thing, the hindrance for you in this show is the songs, not the actual story.

[8:12] Jamie Lambert: No, the story itself. Because you can tell whatever story you want.

[8:15] Eliza Jackson: Absolutely.

[8:16] Eliza Jackson: And I had quite a lot of contact with the Mani estate. So they were really excited that I was telling her story.

[8:23] Eliza Jackson: I was talking to her kids. They were like, please tell our mom's story.

[8:26] Ramin Karimloo: Where is she from?

[8:27] Eliza Jackson: She's from the States.

[8:28] Ramin Karimloo: Where's the estate now?

[8:29] Eliza Jackson: She's in New York. Her kids are still based there.

[8:33] Ramin Karimloo: So yeah. But who knows? He might have a life later on.

[8:37] Jamie Lambert: Now with music, isn't there after 75 years, it becomes out of copyright?

[8:41] Eliza Jackson: Yes.

[8:42] Jamie Lambert: But with things like the Rodgers and Hammerstein estate and all of that, I think there are different rules that come into play.

[8:49] Eliza Jackson: Well, they probably keep, yeah.

[8:50] Jamie Lambert: They'll keep renewing it or something.

[8:52] Eliza Jackson: I'm not sure.

[8:53] Eliza Jackson: But I actually just thought of a really fun connecting thing.

[8:56] Jamie Lambert: So the first bit of dubbing work that Mani Nixon did was on the Secret Garden film.

[9:01] Eliza Jackson: And she sang the Hindi lullaby for the child actress in it.

[9:06] Jamie Lambert: Isn't that crazy?

[9:08] Eliza Jackson: Which is fun because obviously we're all working on the Secret Garden, the musical together.

[9:12] Jamie Lambert: And she didn't speak Hindi.

[9:13] Eliza Jackson: She didn't speak Hindi.

[9:14] Jamie Lambert: That's how talented this woman was.

[9:16] Eliza Jackson: And obviously, yes, we are working on the Secret Garden. That's not going to happen nowadays.

[9:18] Jamie Lambert: No.

[9:19] Eliza Jackson: It's absolutely not going to happen.

[9:20] Jamie Lambert: Not going to happen now.

[9:21] Eliza Jackson: But kind of a fun little connection.

[9:23] Jamie Lambert: You think that it's challenging to find people who speak Hindi who are also actors, but it's just not.

[9:28] Eliza Jackson: The thing is, my view, and it's the same thing with this Amdram thing. We talked about this because there are a couple of Amdram societies around the U.K. who've been criticized for putting on all white versions of shows that are typically not even set in an all white setting.

[9:44] Jamie Lambert: And the response is, well, we're a charity and we're just celebrating music.

[9:48] Eliza Jackson: Well, actually, I think we're at a point now where representation matters more than that.

[9:52] Jamie Lambert: And we've talked very much about this as a three-piece in the past when we did Dr. Zhivago about how we can make sure that there is a degree of diversity.

[10:02] Ramin Karimloo: You yourself are Iranian-born.

[10:05] Jamie Lambert: And it's really important to have a degree of diversity in every show, not for the sake of having diversity because for diversity's sake, but actually because that's what reflects the world around us now.

[10:18] Eliza Jackson: Yeah.

[10:19] Eliza Jackson: And there is so much talent out there.

[10:20] Jamie Lambert: And I think it'd be hard not to find talent from all walks of life.

[10:24] Jamie Lambert: I still think, you know, may the best person, you know, get the job.

[10:30] Eliza Jackson: But I think there should be equal opportunity for everyone for sure.

[10:33] Jamie Lambert: And then if there's a historical element, well, you've got to tell the truth.

[10:37] Eliza Jackson: You have to be relatively true to the historical element.

[10:39] Jamie Lambert: But even in historical pieces, say, for example, just look at Hamilton.

[10:46] Eliza Jackson: Yeah.

[10:47] Jamie Lambert: I mean, that's an incredible way of showing diversity through historical pieces.

[10:51] Eliza Jackson: Very, very clever.

[10:52] Jamie Lambert: Well, it's kind of turning it on its head, isn't it?

[10:53] Eliza Jackson: Absolutely.

[10:54] Jamie Lambert: But that doesn't affect the story.

[10:55] Eliza Jackson: It doesn't, you know.

[10:56] Jamie Lambert: Look at how people love it.

[10:58] Eliza Jackson: I think that is where the future lies for the industry.

[11:02] Jamie Lambert: It doesn't lie in doing all white productions of Rent.

[11:05] Eliza Jackson: Do you know what I mean?

[11:06] Jamie Lambert: It doesn't lie in doing that.

[11:07] Eliza Jackson: There was that story a couple of years ago about that all white production of Show Boat.

[11:11] Jamie Lambert: What?

[11:12] Eliza Jackson: Where?

[11:13] Jamie Lambert: Who?

[11:14] Eliza Jackson: What?

[11:15] Jamie Lambert: Oh, yeah.

[11:16] Eliza Jackson: You should look it up.

[11:17] Jamie Lambert: It's almost unbelievable that someone thought that was a good idea.

[11:20] Eliza Jackson: But people did.

[11:22] Jamie Lambert: How can that work?

[11:26] Eliza Jackson: Well, it doesn't.

[11:27] Jamie Lambert: But I think this is what we're saying.

[11:31] Jamie Lambert: We had three things when we first started the company, three rules, three mantras that we started the company with.

[11:37] Jamie Lambert: One was to have inclusivity and to celebrate BAME talent.

[11:42] Jamie Lambert: One was to pay everyone fairly and treat everyone with respect.

[11:45] Jamie Lambert: And the other one was to have at least 10% of all of our casts as new talent who either hadn't worked before or hadn't worked for a while because they'd been out having kids or hadn't been seen for a while.

[11:58] Eliza Jackson: Those were the three things that we really wanted to stick to and we've managed so far.

[12:02] Jamie Lambert: And it's not easy.

[12:03] Eliza Jackson: It isn't easy sometimes.

[12:04] Jamie Lambert: It's incredibly easy to look at a show like Secret Garden and cast it all white.

[12:10] Eliza Jackson: It would be so easy to do that.

[12:11] Jamie Lambert: And also just to cast it all as names that we know.

[12:14] Eliza Jackson: And those names are brilliant and would do an excellent job, but they're finding work easily, whereas it's so much cooler to bring in new talent.

[12:26] Jamie Lambert: The fact that it would be easy for us to do that, easy for us to cast names or easy for us to cast an all-white show is part of the problem.

[12:33] Eliza Jackson: And the reason it's easy is because that's the way it's been done for so long.

[12:37] Jamie Lambert: And in the last few years, we're having this conversation, and that is all about what it's about, having the conversations about it.

[12:43] Eliza Jackson: That's how you move forward.

[12:44] Jamie Lambert: And for us, the fact that it's easy is an issue to cast a show as all-white or cast a show as all names.

[12:51] Eliza Jackson: And so what people have to do and what producers have to do at whatever level – we've been going for a year and a half now. We've got a Palladium show. It's amazing.

[13:01] Jamie Lambert: But producers of all levels have got to take responsibility and do the work to make sure that these problems are tackled head-on rather than just going with what's easiest.

[13:10] Eliza Jackson: I think a lot of people are getting on board, though.

[13:12] Jamie Lambert: Oh, they are.

[13:13] Jamie Lambert: I think some of the stuff that's coming out of Britain at the moment is really exciting.

[13:15] Eliza Jackson: But just look at our amazing director for Secret Garden, Nick Winston, who dropped us an email the other day saying, have we thought about this part as maybe diverse, and this is a great role.

[13:24] Jamie Lambert: And we just looked at it and said, we love that, because we love that he's so clued up to it.

[13:30] Eliza Jackson: And we think it's important that everyone is so clued up to that.

[13:33] Jamie Lambert: Because sometimes you can flip things on its head and turn, and why not?

[13:37] Eliza Jackson: Well, we had conversations about this, about Secret Garden, about whether we could gender flip a role.

[13:42] Jamie Lambert: Could we gender flip? And we are always thinking about this.

[13:46] Eliza Jackson: But again, it has to work.

[13:48] Jamie Lambert: We're working on two new pieces of writing, one called The Throwaways that is in workshop stages, which has a lead woman.

[13:55] Eliza Jackson: Great.

[13:56] Jamie Lambert: And she's the one who gets shit done.

[14:03] Eliza Jackson: Like, almost like a geeky thing. It's considered geeky, which is still now a very male-dominated, male-driven industry, and she's a lead woman. Yeah, and it's cool. That's an exciting story for us. And then we've just started working on a new Christmas show, which would be a kids' show. We can't talk too much about it yet, but that's another female heroine. Are you writing this? No, not writing this. This is with two new excellent writers.

[14:30] Jamie Lambert: If we see a piece of new writing, it's normally Eliza who sees it because Eliza is the creative director, and I sit with my spreadsheets. Who are my friends? It's very Sweeney Todd. I would say these are my friends, but I just hold up my laptop. But you know, Eliza will see these new pieces of writing or someone will submit to both of us, you know, we've got a group email, and Eliza will read through it and say, "I think this is good," and then I'll read through it and I'll say, "Mmm, and this is good." And if we can make it work, if we look at it and think this has got a future, there is something about new British writing. It's so important in this country right now because for a long time, a lot of the stuff that we were was on in the West End was significantly stuff that was coming over from Broadway, right?

[15:14] Eliza Jackson: And then suddenly you had Everybody's Talking About Jamie, which was amazing. You had Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, which was huge. I say "cursed child" because I'm dramatic. But you know, we have these two amazing British pieces, which are hugely successful, one of which originated in the north in Sheffield about, you know, the very British story, British story, and was a documentary, you know, in Britain. That's how it started. And I think there is just such space for new British writing recently. One thing that I sort of wish we'd been involved in was Fiverr. I thought Fiverr looked amazing at the Southwark Playhouse, which Alex Ellison and Tom Lee wrote. It had him, Heber in it, it had Luke Bayer in it and a couple of other amazing people, but good new British writing that deserves to be celebrated.

[16:14] Jamie Lambert: We've got another big season of cabaret shows in the Other Palace studio space in January as well. So two weeks, and that's celebrating. I live there basically for the whole of January.

[16:23] Eliza Jackson: We just did your show there, but isn't that what they're doing and what they're allowing to be done?

[16:29] Jamie Lambert: Well, this is really interesting, and where this came from was Calabria doing our fourth album, and it actually turned out to be the first concert thing that we put on. We did an album launch in the Other Palace, and it just sort of came from us looking for spaces. We talked to the Albert Hall, we talked to a couple of other spaces, and something about the vibe of the Other Palace just worked really well. And then we were sat together one day, and we just came up with the idea of what if, because at the minute you have limited spaces for a West End star who might not be so known outside of musical theatre, but who obviously could have sold a much bigger venue. But we talked about that, and it was beautiful to do an intimate space.

[17:09] Eliza Jackson: But a lot of the people that we bring into the Other Palace are West End stars whose only option raised you solo concerts is one of the smaller cabaret spaces that 80 to 100 seats, and the Other Palace is 312, right?

[17:22] Jamie Lambert: But without it, it is bigger, but it still feels, and you know from playing that stage, just as intimate because of the way it's raked, the way the audience is great. Everyone feels like they're right in front of you. Also, it's such a nice theater. It feels really classy. I've got a hundred kinds of gin.

[17:42] Eliza Jackson: But we talked to them, and they were so, we have such a great relationship with Lloyd Webber Theatres. We've got obviously what the Palladium now as well, but the Other Palace, the team, they just felt like what they wanted to do. We wanted to work away with them to take a theater on a dark day and bring in somebody to do a really intimate West End standard concert, which is not easy. And the first season was great. We didn't do amazingly well off it financially because we were sort of learning about how it would work and also we, you know, make sure we paid one properly, etc.

[18:17] Jamie Lambert: But then it blew up because of the first, because of the success of the first season, the second season was mad. Like it was crazy, the numbers that we were doing.

[18:21] Eliza Jackson: And is it hosted by anyone each night, or is this?

[18:26] Jamie Lambert: No, no, it's just artists come on. Artists come in. So like last season, we had Amy Atkinson, who's just been announced in Pretty Woman from Six. We just had Jody Steele, we had Joe McElderry, we had David Hunter. What a dream. We had Jason Petticoat. Big fan. And more, you know, and these guys, they come in, Alice Fern from Wicked. These guys, they come in and they just, we give them complete creative control, provided they stick within a certain set of rules that we've got about how their timings and what they can have on stage and stuff.

[19:05] Eliza Jackson: Right, they come in and they create their own shows, and the difference between the shows is amazing. It's not, yeah, they, because they have the opportunity to release their creativity. It's so fun to see what they come up with. But like in our studio shows, which are much the similar thing, but they're smaller, we've got New Year, New Favorites, which focuses on new writing, new arrangements, etc. We've got two weeks in the Other Palace in January, and you've got Sage, our Kashwala, who isn't, who's gonna sing like pop because that's what she does. She's a queen, and she's amazing.

[19:30] Jamie Lambert: Gospel, absolutely. It's gonna be amazing. And then we've got Lou Dearman. Oh, now she's a dream, probably the best voice, one of the best voices I've ever heard. She's a great human being. Oh, so nice. We were talking about that. We were in a meeting this morning just talking about how much we love, we basically talk about Lou. We should, but we have this range of people, and every single show is gonna, if we've actually got a guy, this was a bit of a rogue one, but we've got a guy called Joe Ashman who is trained in theater but is in a Netflix series. He's an actor in a Netflix series, massive, like following of like crazy young women.

[20:13] Eliza Jackson: But just, I just, I know him of old. I just texted him and said, "Do you fancy coming in and doing one of these shows?" Because I know he plays piano and plays guitar and sings. He said, "Yeah," and it's sold really well because it's something that he wouldn't normally do. And that's why every single show that we're doing is, it's great on the 2nd of March with Divina de Campo, who was a Drag Race finalist in the UK. But we've also got John Owen Jones, we've got Jordan, a gauge, gauge. We've got my point agreed.

[20:40] Jamie Lambert: But then the big, big, big, big show is April 4th, which is Secret Garden, Dad, which we're very, very excited about after the success of Dr. Zhivago, and we're so excited that you're coming back.

[20:53] Ramin Karimloo: Hey, I'm excited that you guys are having me. Appreciate it. It's just gonna be so good, just magic, isn't it?

[20:59] Jamie Lambert: Yeah, what we didn't realize was we knew how popular the show was. We didn't realize the place that it had in people's hearts, like just the pre-sales today.

[21:04] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, I'm sure we can talk about that. I could be an amazing talk to me, like the pre-sales have been amazing today. As a producer, what do you expect from a pre-sale that would make you happy? Jamie and I were kind of talking about this. Pre-sales, especially the first day, the kind of hype and excitement from that will definitely reflect how it's gonna do on the main general on sale.

[21:30] Jamie Lambert: How is this compared to Dr. Zhivago pre-sales? I think we're gonna do the same amount of pre-sales today that we did in the first day of general on sale for Dr. Zhivago, right? I think we're gonna get quite close. I think mixing the name of The Secret Garden, having you, Lucy Jones, and Jack Garrow, as well as at the London Palladium, that's a hopefully, and they have a huge base like the London Palladium.

[21:58] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, but what's nice is that all of you have done things for LW Theatre. So you did your own show at the Palladium. They've got all the Phantom stuff for you as well. They've still got that information, the booking information. They've got all of the Waitress Lucy, they've got all of the Joseph stuff for Jack. So they've got people who've seen you guys before who they can directly email, which is great, right? And these people all love you because they've seen you perform. So we're really hoping it's gonna be a crazy buzz, but it is a beautiful story, beautiful music. As we, you know, we've got to know Lucy well. I've known Lucy for quite some time. Lucy Simon, composer, Lucy, who's coming over to see it. It's gonna be her like birthday trip.

[22:37] Jamie Lambert: Oh, that's, we're obsessed with it. Yeah, and it's a big special birthday too. I was like sometimes late at night, one of us will just email her and copy the other one in, be like, "Hey Lucy, how you doing?"

[22:49] Eliza Jackson: But she's amazing, and we just fell in love with her when she came over. We just completely fell in love with her. She's such a gentle genius.

[22:58] Jamie Lambert: Yes, she really is. That's what I would describe her as. Her music is special and it's heartfelt, and anyone who loved Chicago and that music, like if you don't know Secret Garden, the review that is the same kind of lush or a beautiful piece. Yeah, she's cinematic.

[23:18] Eliza Jackson: We're in a beautiful scene, Lucy's face after the show and seeing the reaction that her Dr. Zhivago got.

[23:24] Jamie Lambert: Well, my, I'm getting goosebumps thinking. So Eliza spent the whole show in the lighting box being a genius, and I spent a word genius, and you are a genius, Eliza. She's very clever. I was running around in the front of house trying to deal with any merchandise crises and also trying to make sure that everyone was happy inside.

[23:45] Eliza Jackson: In the second show, sitting with Lucy and I at the end had gotten up and gone round to get ready to take Lucy and Amy to the stage to do their kind of like speech at the end, which was amazing for everyone there.

[24:03] Jamie Lambert: Oh, the cast lost it. You remember?

[24:05] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, I'm so happy and surprised to see Amy there as well.

[24:08] Jamie Lambert: Oh, she's lovely. She seemed really thrilled as well.

[24:11] Eliza Jackson: She was, and they came down, and I remember I turned round, and I was at the edge of the road, and I saw Lucy, and her face, honestly, I burst into tears. I have messages from people who'd see me be like, "Did you really cry that much?"

[24:18] Ramin Karimloo: Does Ramin know what Lucy said at the end about our production of Dr. Zhivago?

[24:23] Jamie Lambert: I don't think I ever told you. Tell him.

[24:26] Eliza Jackson: She said that she'd never seen herself reflected in her work like she'd seen it that night, which to us, like, well, obviously, we just went to pieces because that's the kind of you do it. She's just that kind of person who you can't help but completely fall in love with.

[24:39] Jamie Lambert: People still ask me what's happening with Dr. Zhivago.

[24:44] Eliza Jackson: They ask us too, I guess, on like almost a daily basis.

[24:47] Jamie Lambert: We just, we think the show is so special, and we do hope there's a future for it.

[24:53] Eliza Jackson: So obviously I know you guys are a great producing duo, and you do amazing work. Is Dr. Zhivago something you're still working at, something you'd like to see?

[24:59] Jamie Lambert: It's something we'd love to see, and we're working at it. I think the thing is, and it has a long history, and there are a lot of people involved.

[25:04] Eliza Jackson: Yeah, and there are things that we'd like to do to the show to make it relevant to a UK audience and to make it relevant to an audience today that I think are alarming to some people because obviously when something is your baby and you've spent so long, and it wasn't an easy show for those guys, Dr. Zhivago, because it went from place to place to place, and it's had various degrees of success, but it is a phenomenal show.

[25:29] Jamie Lambert: Yeah, but there was some turmoil with it, and I think when a new producing duo come along and they want to shake it up, it can be a bit difficult, and actually they have been amazing with us, those guys. But it's just about making sure that we do what's necessary to make it.

[25:45] Eliza Jackson: It will be quite a process to get to the point that we want the show to be at, but a work in progress.

[25:52] Jamie Lambert: Yeah, I think so. So what's the best way to?

[25:55] Eliza Jackson: When this comes out, straight to the Palladium website, go straight to the LW Theatres website. It is on there, and just get your tickets. Are you gonna want your tickets?

[26:06] Jamie Lambert: It hasn't been done like this in London for quite a long time, and in saying that too, if you want to follow Lambert Jackson Productions on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook, LJ Prods on Twitter and also Secret Garden London.

[26:14] Eliza Jackson: And then that's, you'll be the first people to hear all the news and all the exciting stuff coming.

[26:23] Ramin Karimloo: Well, you guys are doing such amazing work. It's definitely worth the while to follow.

[26:28] Jamie Lambert: LJ Prods for Twitter and then Lambert Jackson Productions for Facebook, and it is the problem with predictive texting. You never, it just comes up, so yes, you never actually learn. It just, it's there totally.

[26:41] Eliza Jackson: But yeah, thank you for having us on the show.

[26:46] Ramin Karimloo: Thanks for coming. Pleasure. You are one of us. This is around the corner whenever you need us, okay? Love you guys. Thank you so much.

[26:56] Ramin Karimloo: That was Jamie Lambert and Eliza Jackson of Lambert Jackson Productions. Had a great time hanging with them. I find them incredibly interesting and love their passion for their company and what they want to achieve. I think they're only gonna go strength to strength.

[27:09] Ramin Karimloo: The Hang is produced by Dori Beristain and Alan Seales from the Broadway Podcast Network. You can find me online at EPN.fm forward slash The Hang. Don't forget you can connect with me on Instagram and Twitter at Ramin Karimloo, on YouTube at Ramin Iranian, or my Facebook page, Official Ramin Karimloo.

[27:30] Ramin Karimloo: Music for my podcast is by my friends and one of my favorite bands, The Dives. Please check them out at their website, thedivesmusic.com. That's thedivesmusic.com, where you can get to know them, hear their incredible music, get links to all their socials, and most importantly, their tour dates, where you can find out where you can see and hear them live. They are truly a great band, and they are phenomenal live. Check them out.