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[0:00] Bobby Steggert: I'm Bobby Steggart, and this is The Quiet Part Out Loud.

[0:15] Bobby Steggert: Addiction is not a matter of willpower or character. It often begins as an earnest attempt at coping, at numbing pain, distraction from isolation or shame, an attempt to quell social anxiety. And usually, at first, it works. That's why we keep doing it. It smooths out the edges, it makes the party a lot more interesting, it makes us feel calm when we felt like a mess before, or powerful when we felt small and scared.

[0:45] Bobby Steggert: The problem, of course, is that the benefits are merely a burst of beginner's luck, followed by an avalanche of additional pain and disconnection that follows. An important thing about addiction, it's not merely a psychological or emotional process, but a physical one. Whether a chemical substance or, let's say, the trigger of a slot machine spitting out coins, the brain's reward system releases feel-good chemicals, most notably dopamine. This feels wonderful, but over time, the brain gets used to that euphoric surge. This is called tolerance, and we start to crave even more, and then this leads to what we call dependency.

[1:26] Bobby Steggert: Add to this genetics. Some people are simply more vulnerable to addiction due to a number of genes that affect brain responses, like how much dopamine gets released. Or metabolism, like how quickly it's broken down. Or even personality traits, like how likely you're to take a risk. While none of these genes cause addiction on their own, they can increase your susceptibility to environmental factors like stress or trauma, or easy access to addictive substances.

[1:54] Bobby Steggert: God, I love a book report. All this to say, it is very important that we talk about addiction from a fully ecological perspective, one that includes consideration from the whole range of factors, from the tiny little receptors on your cells, to the larger societal forces that affect our culture. It's a discussion that has only somewhat recently become acceptable and freer from the shame that forced so many people into secrecy when they've been dealing with it. And it is for that reason that I am most especially grateful to this week's guest, Alex Puette.

[2:29] Bobby Steggert: He's a talented Broadway performer currently in Hadestown. He's thoughtful, articulate, highly intelligent, handsome. You meet him and you could easily make the assumption that he just floats through life. In fact, when you hear his story, you'll learn that his addiction to crystal meth wasn't, in fact, a response to dire and traumatic circumstances. He got caught up in a moment, unaware and naive of the danger he was in, and like any human in that situation, he quickly found himself powerless to a substance that totally took over.

[3:07] Bobby Steggert: Alex's story is important, not because it's a nightmare, but because it's typical. He may have struggled with a particularly extreme substance, but let me tell you, as a therapist, I can attest to the reality that each of us, me included, is addicted to something. You might want to consider the device you're using to play this podcast.

[3:27] Bobby Steggert: One of the things that you said when we talked a few weeks ago, when we were planning this, was that you didn't in any way want this to be tragedy porn. And that keeps ringing in my head, and I just want to put out there, your being willing to talk about your experience with drug use and with addiction is such a public service, because I think it's one of the most misunderstood experiences of the human condition.

[4:01] Alex Puette: Yeah, absolutely. I do think it is important. You have to know the darkness in order to get to the light. That's the only reason I really feel compelled to talk about it is because I know that in sharing the sort of muddy, gross details, there is hope.

[4:13] Bobby Steggert: Absolutely.

[4:14] Alex Puette: And so, I appreciate you saying that, Bobby.

[4:16] Bobby Steggert: Of course. And the thing that I learned so much about in social work school, and you have such a personal relationship to, is that drug use, substance use of any kind, it's always a reaction to some kind of pain and isolation one is experiencing. I don't know anyone who doesn't have that as part of their story. It's really important to me to talk about this through that lens as well, that no one is immune to addiction. And I would love to not only talk about how substance use hurt you, but actually how it functioned for you as well.

[4:47] Alex Puette: Sure. Let's get right into it. So, I think the only reason that I saw this particular drug, but I would say any addiction that I was experiencing before, because even long before I found crystal meth, I had abused alcohol at some point in my life. I had struggled with eating disorder behavior all throughout high school and college. I struggled with lying. There are a multitude of addictions that have come up in my life. And of course, crystal meth was the one that brought me to my knees, but they all serve the same purpose. That was like filling this hole in my soul, right? This wanting mind that I say I, but I really do mean we as a collective, right? We all are constantly wanting things and that's truly a product of our society that makes us want what we don't have.

And so, for me, it was the wanting. It was really basic stuff too, right? It was wanting connection. It was wanting to feel like I belonged. It was wanting to feel like I had some sort of sense of purpose, wanting happiness and not having that, as I just said, it left this deep wound within me. And so, I saw these behaviors and then ultimately found crystal meth quench that thirst.

[6:03] Bobby Steggert: So, if you were to trace, as you described, lying as a little kid all the way to crystal meth as an adult, what did it give you, both of those behaviors?

[6:14] Alex Puette: Validation.

[6:15] Bobby Steggert: So, what were you lying about?

[6:17] Alex Puette: Oh my gosh, what wasn't I lying about? So, my very first memory of being a child lying, I was in first grade and it was like the very first day of school and the teacher asked all of us what we did over the summer. And for whatever reason, I was listening to all these kids talk about all their amazing vacations they had and we were middle class, but we didn't take a bunch of extravagant vacations. And in my head, the first thing that popped up as a six-year-old, I said, my family went to China and I marched in a parade and I was a dragon. And I made up this whole story and the immediate validation I got from my classmates and from my teacher, oh, I had goosebumps all over my body. I really felt power.

I felt I was being put on this pedestal. It was all this validation that I wasn't able to give myself even as a six-year-old. And I feel like that lie alone set me off for decades of lying. And then over time, it became anything, right? It became inflated stories about what I was doing. It was lying to my parents about where I was going. And sometimes it was really for the thrill of it, right? It was the thrill of getting away with it. It totally transcended just like wanting to feel like I belonged and enough, right? Then it ultimately became like this like thing. So I'm getting away with this. People think I'm powerful. And it just snowballed, snowballed over the years.

[7:46] Bobby Steggert: It occurs to me how you so relate to lies as a kid. For me, it was so connected to lying about who I was as a survival. When you told these lies to feel powerful, did you also know that you were lying about who you were as a gay person?

[8:02] Alex Puette: I don't think initially, not when I was very young. Of course, by the time I hit adolescence and I started going through puberty, I was very much aware that I was different from most of my peers. You know you're different, but you don't necessarily know why or how. There's just some sort of deep knowing that something is quote-unquote off. And then when it did become clear what that offness was, of course, the lying then became about lying about who I am. Having the girlfriends, telling everybody the crushes I had goes back to those getting that validation, that sense of belonging. People are like, oh, you have a girlfriend. You're one of us. Oh, you have a crush on a girl. You're finally a teenage boy. And that kept it going only so long until I really truly couldn't keep it in anymore.

[9:07] Alex Puette: Addiction for me has always been finding something outside of myself to feel better about myself. Finding something to attach to provide me with the love, for lack of a much better word, that I was certainly not able to offer myself. And ultimately, I think that is the purpose that addiction served in my life. Of course, it was a deeply false refuge. All of it was. But it really was just a way for me to feel belonging in the world, like belonging in my community, belonging within my family system, in my career, which translates to love.

[9:13] Bobby Steggert: Now that you're an adult and you have the framework of addiction to define it, how can you look back at those early patterns of behavior and connect it to addiction?

[9:53] Bobby Steggert: You have me thinking about how so many artists struggle with addiction. And it's so clear that in the way that you describe that search for validation and for acceptance is the very same thing that artists are often seeking as they pursue it as young people.

[10:04] Alex Puette: Oh, sure. Not always, but especially in show business, we're constantly asking other people to validate our talent and to provide us with opportunity. And that alone, it created a deep rift in my sense of worthiness and my sense of happiness. I relied on so many others for my happiness in ways of just being like a job or providing me with an opportunity. And so I do think that is why a lot of artists are really drawn to addictive behaviors. It's because, again, it's that clinging. It's that wanting mine. I want this opportunity. I want us to fill my dreams. And very early on in my career, and especially when I was in addiction, I was blaming so many other people and reasons why I wasn't getting the opportunities.

And so then it gets back and forth of feeling like I deserved it. And at the same time, feeling like I didn't belong and I wasn't worthy, and then getting angry at the people that weren't providing those opportunities and yet begging them to just see me and help me fit in. And so for that, I feel like it's no wonder that so many artists see substances and behaviors just help them feel any sort of sense of belonging.

[11:31] Alex Puette: I will also say this too. There's also this, and it's I guess a little cliche, the suffering artist too, that if I suffer, my art will be greater. There was a point in my addiction where there was a little bit of me that was getting off on that. I guess it was more towards the beginning of my addiction that I was like, oh, this is going to make me a better artist because I'm finally suffering like all the great artists are. As if I also wasn't creating enough.

[11:59] Alex Puette: Suffering on my own long before it. And of course, I now know as someone who has seen a little bit of what the other side is, I actually feel way more confident in my artistry, my creativity, coming from a place of love and joy than I ever did from suffering. I so relate to almost everything you just said. I would use alcohol more than anything in terms of one, coping with the powerlessness of being an actor. All of the ways in which you give your power away, I coped with through drinking, drinking socially, drinking by myself. They were equal opportunity moments for me. And I also relate to what you said about thinking that the down and dirty quality of substance use makes you more gritty, makes you more real, makes you more dark. And so I'm wondering if there's something about the exploration of darkness that you found attractive.

[12:53] Alex Puette: Oh, absolutely. All human beings have the darkness and the light within us, right? We all have our shadow sides, and let's try to be more so to the world. And that comes out right, like in joy and anger and in happiness and melancholy, like it's a part of the human experience. And I have always been drawn to the darkness of the human experience ever since I was a little kid. I think part of going back to the line, too, was a part of that, too, that it was a way for me to take risks and get away with things. And so as I got older, that darkness turned into exploring my darkness sexually and how I can access those parts of me in that way, which I guess is really ultimately how I found crystal meth.

I think what is what drew me to it so deeply is because I was able to then, in the beginning, not feel shame for feeling those dark things. Because so much of darkness, at least in my experience, has been that I have these dark feelings, I'm supposed to feel shame about them, right? They're in the dark for a reason. I don't want those things to come out. So we keep those inside. It's like the Stepford Wives. It's the being the best little boy in the world. It's only showing people on the outside what is bright and shiny and beautiful and keeping everything that is, like you said, gritty, really vulnerable, messy, anger, like all of those things. It's keeping that on the inside. And as we all know, that only leads to repression, which can only build up so much until it comes out into something really harmful.

[14:37] Bobby Steggert: So it sounds like what it did for you is it gave you permission. It gave you permission to be sexual. It gave you permission to be and to feel the aspects of yourself that you felt that you had to edit out.

[14:48] Alex Puette: Yeah, it turned into that. I think at a time that we, you and I, grew up, it was very hard. It was challenging to come out, right? Even if, and I'm so blessed, I had the most supportive parents in the world. And yet it was still so difficult. It took me years to come out because I was under the impression that gay equals bad, gay equals wrong, gay equals different. Gay sex is wrong on a whole other level. And I felt that all through. I remember feeling through college, even every time I had sex, there was some time I would feel it was obviously very pleasurable and I sought it and it was what I wanted. But there was always that underlying internalized homophobia that was like very alive inside of me that was like, yeah, but the sex you're having is wrong.

It is not the natural way. So I found crystal meth. At first, I was wrong because of that sort of like able to really express those like darker sexual sides of me that I didn't even allow. Even things that with my partner now husband at the time, like things that I was like really curious about that I would have never admitted to him because I was so ashamed to admit that was something that I would maybe be into. And meth took all inhibitions away.

[16:16] Bobby Steggert: The first time you tried it, how was it offered to you? And then what did you experience?

[16:20] Alex Puette: Yeah. So the first time I was offered meth, it really did appear in front of me without me even knowing what was happening. I had a really bad audition that day. I was just feeling really horrible about myself. And so I found someone and they asked me a question. Do you like to party? At the time, I was like, yeah, I love to go to parties. I'm super social. I'm super outgoing. I love to day drink. Absolutely. I would love to. Great. Come over. And so I went over. And as soon as I got there, there was crystal meth and all of its paraphernalia were on the table. And I said, oh, what is that? And he described it to me. And I was so blindly unaware about anything about crystal meth, but especially about meth in the gay community.

I didn't know it was a thing. I didn't know. The only thing I really knew about crystal meth was that people out in the middle of nowhere, Arkansas, did it made it in trailers and lost their teeth and went to jail. That was like what my perception of crystal meth was. And so I remember asking him, it's going to make me fall asleep because I like I have something really important to do later. That is how totally unaware I was of it. And so I tried it for the first time and it was a very instant antidote to the shame and self-deprecation that I was feeling, especially after that audition and just where I was in my life. I didn't have a lot of confidence. My self-esteem was really low. And so when I took that very first hit, I remember just feeling euphoria all over my body.

I felt confident. I felt powerful and I did not feel fear. And those were feelings that I was not accustomed to feeling at the time. And that is what I was addicted to. I was addicted to those feelings more than anything, more than the sex, more than the recreating my darkness and like finding a way to express it. It was like that feeling of I'm confident, I am powerful. I don't have to think about all the things that are happening in my life that are amounting to anything, all of the things that I wish I could change. In that very first time, there was almost something that made me feel deeply present with what was happening in front of me and I couldn't quiet the noise.

[18:47] Bobby Steggert: What's so interesting is that my thought about what it would be like is that it would be a loss of control, but you're describing the complete opposite.

[18:56] Alex Puette: Yeah, I'll say this. It is an illusion of control that you have, that you think you have. And especially the first time. After a while, months and months in when I was using it daily, there was no control. There was no control. I still had that illusion a little bit like I was in control, but that's when things started spiraling.

[19:16] Bobby Steggert: How did it escalate? How did it go from use one time to taking over your experience?

[19:24] Alex Puette: Yeah, so I used it the first time and it was a great experience. It did everything you needed to do in that moment. And then of course, I did not sleep that night. But then I woke up the next day and I felt a little depressed, but I moved on with my life. And all it took then was, I think it was like two weeks later, that something else happened where I instantly felt terrible about myself. I didn't feel like I was enough. I didn't feel like I belonged. And I was like, oh yeah, that's right. I did have that experience two weeks ago that sort of made me forget that. What if I just reach out to that person and see if they're around again? And of course, then it happened again. It happened then a week later.

And then it happened so quickly and almost without my knowing of what was going on, it really got out of control quite fast because your brain is flooded with so much dopamine when you take crystal meth that nothing in life at that time, nothing in my life could recreate that experience. And so I just wanted it more and more and more. And then I think it was two or three months after my first use that I started using it every day.

[20:38] Bobby Steggert: Every day. And how were you functioning? How were you getting on with the other aspects of life?

[20:45] Alex Puette: Yeah, I was very good at hiding it. I guess maybe it was a benefit of my acting training and being an actor. I was, for a long time, I was able to hold it together. I, of course, on the inside, I was broken. My heart was racing, truly racing. My brain was in overdrive, but I was able to be with someone in front of me and able to have a conversation with them. Of course, that I thought I looked normal and I looked fine. I don't, after talking to people that I love afterwards and they're like, yeah, we always knew something was maybe up a little, but I really thought I had it together. And I always set ground rules for myself, especially in the beginning, right? Oh, at first it was, I won't use every day.

Then that happened. It was like, okay, I'm only going to use when I don't have anything important to do that day. Or I'm only going to use when I don't have an audition or I don't have to go to work. And then I crossed that boundary and the boundaries kept getting crossed and crossed it, but I won't use it intravenously. However, until of course, again, they all got broken and I'm very prone to anxiety. And in college, my friends gave me the tick name. They gave me a couple of nicknames, but one of them was Code Red because I was always just, I'm very emphatic. And I was just always like on high alert and like a little bit of like deer in headlights. So I think a lot of people just attribute to a slightly heightened version of myself.

And so I think there was that piece as well. I also did everything I could to make sure that I slept because from what I saw in my experience was the people that used meth that got, I hate using this word, but got a little crazy that I saw doing really wild unhinged behaviors are the people that didn't sleep. And so I was like, okay, whatever I do, I'm going to sleep. And so unfortunately that meant doing meth during the day and then at night taking Ambien and marijuana and Xanax and muscle relaxers and anything I could get four hours of sleep.

[22:56] Bobby Steggert: So the rollercoaster you were putting yourself through?

[22:58] Alex Puette: Yes. Yeah.

[23:05] Bobby Steggert: What happened to your relationship?

[23:11] Alex Puette: So my relationship with my now husband, there were a lot of trust issues. I was very good at hiding it, hiding the literal physical drugs in my home. I was very good at hiding it. And he actually never found them. It was more behavior that was discovered later, but he would always find out that I went somewhere that I wasn't supposed to, or he would be away for long stretches of time and knew I wasn't at home. And so the trust was almost completely broken during that time. We were so disconnected because the meth ultimately made me hate myself in an even worse way than it was before I found it. And so as our lovely friend RuPaul says, if you can't love yourself, how the hell are you going to love somebody?

[23:59] Alex Puette: I really felt that, right? I had such hatred for myself. That there was no way I could be fully present with my partner. And no way that I can really give him the love that he deserved. And so for a couple years, it was really bad. And we almost split up many times.

[24:16] Bobby Steggert: I must have been so hard for both of you.

[24:19] Alex Puette: It was and to this day, I just, I feel so horrible for what I put him through. And he's such an amazing man. And he always, you know, after I went into recovery, I remember asking him once and I was like, why did you stay with me after all you put up with? And he said, because I knew, I knew who you were, I knew who you were and the person deep down, I knew your potential. And who I was seeing those couple years was not the man that I fell in love with. And I knew that person was still in there. And I just hoped and prayed that he would come back.

[25:01] Bobby Steggert: That's really beautiful.

[25:02] Alex Puette: This is beautiful. He's amazing.

[25:04] Bobby Steggert: When I observe through clients who deal with substance use, everyone's quote, rock bottom that tells them that something needs to change is different. What was it for you? What made you realize that you had to go to treatment?

[25:20] Alex Puette: So I was doing an out of town tryout of a show in Las Vegas. And Las Vegas was a very difficult place to be when you're in the throes of addiction. And so I was using every day very hardcore. And I remember the first day of rehearsals, and I got there and I was like, I really want to do well at this job. I am not going to use the whole time I'm here. And I landed in Las Vegas and within an hour, I was using and it got really bad. I was missing rehearsals because I was getting really sick because my immune system was just like totally compromised. I wasn't eating. I was not drinking. I was not hydrating because meth really suppresses your appetite. It's a stimulant and all stimulants do that, but meth does it to an extreme degree.

And so I was getting really sick all the time. I was dancing in the show and I dropped people in lifts. I was almost fired several times. I can't believe I wasn't. It was the first time using that I really recognized how broken I was, like on the inside before I think I kept pushing it away. But I remember looking in the mirror at one point. At that point, I think I had been up for a day or two. And I was looking in the mirror and I could see all of my ribs in a really not healthy way. And my skin was like this awful color and I felt like it was dripping off my face. And I remember thinking, if I keep doing this, I'm going to die. And so I went and visited a friend who was my best friend who was on tour with the show and she was in Los Angeles and she's like, come visit me on your day off.

So I did. And at this point, I hadn't told a single soul about my use. And I get to her and she actually picks me up from the airport. And she looked at me and she was like, you look awful, were her first words out of her mouth. What is happening? And I said, oh, I'm fine. I'm fine. I was not feeling well. And then by that night, she's the first person I actually admitted to. And that conversation that I had with her, of her meeting me where I was at, of her not telling me that what I was doing was awful, of her not telling me that I was a terrible person because I was abusing crystal meth. Her meeting me with love and connection, like deep, deep connection. That took my rock bottom, my moment of rock bottom to my beginning of recovery. That was that transition.

[27:52] Bobby Steggert: Her ability not to shame you allowed you not to shame yourself in that moment.

[27:57] Alex Puette: Yeah, because all I've been doing was my favorite spiritual teacher, Tara Brach always talks about second arrowing. And I love this concept. And so it's like, with suffering, right? You ever want the first arrow is the suffering, right? The first arrow is the drug use. The first arrow is oh my gosh, that person died and I'm experiencing grief. It's the second arrow, the judgment that keeps that suffering going. And so for me, it was like, the suffering alone of being addicted to crystal meth was its own hell. But then it was the second arrow of but you're terrible because you're doing it. But I'm gonna I'm gonna shame you into trying to get better, right? I'm going to use self-hatred as a motivation to get better.

And you think it's gonna work, right? You really do. You're like, I tell myself how awful I am and how awful this is. At some point, I'm gonna stop. And it's the opposite, right? We all know the benefits of community and connection. And they told me this in rehab. Soon after I got there, I had a counselor say the opposite of addiction is connection. And it all just clicked for me. And I was like, Oh, that's fine. That's why when I told my friend, and she met me with love, that's why I started to be able to be on this path towards recovery. And it took a while and it was not it was very much not linear. And it was very bumpy. But like, it was only through connection that I was able to find my way out of the deep hell that was my addiction.

[29:34] Bobby Steggert: We could talk about recovery for a whole nother hour. I guess what's most important to ask you is, is what tools that gave you?

[29:42] Alex Puette: I apply tools that I learned in my early stages of recovery every single day. I was in a 12-step program for many years. And saved my life was really wonderful thing for me. And there are so many cheesy sayings that are so cliché for a reason, because I think they were the very simple, one day at a time, I apply that to my life in every way imaginable, whether it is in my relationship, in my marriage, in my career, in my friendships, in my creativity, you can even break it down to one moment at a time, right in a very non-recovery way. So if I'm thinking about creatively, right, I'm sitting down to write. And I start feeling an immense amount of doubt, I really have to take that moment to be like, okay, this doubt is temporary.

This is what is happening in this moment. I see you doubt, I'm happy you're here. You are part of this conversation always. But what do I need to do now in this moment to overcome that doubt? And that's not to say that doubt's not going to come tomorrow. And I'm not going to feel anxiety about this project in two days, or three days, or four days. What do I need to do today, just overcome that. And that's gonna look different every day, right? Let's say I might need to take a walk, whereas taking a walk wouldn't help me in that moment. In early recovery, though, for me, it was really like, I remember being so daunted. I remember thinking, how am I never going to not use a mood or mind-altering substance ever again.

And it really wasn't. For today, I can choose to not do that. Tomorrow, I'll cross that bridge when it gets there. But what can I do today? And in early recovery, it really was, what can I do in this hour? Because I'm feeling that craving so strongly. But I need to know what I can do in this very moment to keep me from not using the next moment. But I do, I use that all the time in my everyday life in so many ways. I'm currently out of work right now with an injury, and it's disgusting with my head, but I'm really trying to take it one day at a time. Other tools that I use in recovery were the concept of a higher power. For me, I was really adverse to this idea of God, just because I grew up in a community, I grew up Jewish, but I grew up in a community that was very Catholic-centered.

And so I saw what God was doing to people. And so I was so adverse to that for so long. But the way they described it in both in 12-step rooms and rehab was that it's just some power that is greater than yourself. And maybe that is your sangha, your community. Maybe it is an actual way of God. Maybe it's Mother Nature. Maybe it's the universe. And I rely on that every moment of every day.

[32:39] Alex Puette: I stopped drinking a while ago. And at first, I really missed it every day until I missed it every week. And then I stopped missing it altogether. And what I learned is that I had more and more capacity to tolerate discomfort with no substances in my body. And it takes a while for your body to learn that, I think. That said, every once in a while, I really wish I could go out and get trashed. That would be really convenient.

[33:03] Bobby Steggert: And do you ever have those moments?

[33:08] Alex Puette: It's convenient, yes. Yes, absolutely. Oh, man, who doesn't want to escape? Right? Like, there's so much happening in the world right now that is very scary. And not just within our own lives, right? On a grander scale. And I still wish that I could use my old coping skills. I so wish I could use them. And I wish I knew that if I use them, they would work. Because of course, I know now that I guess something else I learned to call back to your other question to is another tool I used is playing the tape forward. I would go and I would consume that drug, I would feel guilt and shame for using it. And that would override my experience completely. I also know that coming down from that drug is, while there's no physical effects, the mental effects of flooding your brain with that much dopamine, and then cutting it off is a depression that I had never experienced before I tried that drug. And I know is a part of it. It is the yin and the yang of using, right? You feel that pleasurable experience. And then once that's taken away, you feel the emptiness and the void.

[34:24] Alex Puette: And for me, where I am in my life today, I'm choosing not to go down that road.

[34:39] Bobby Steggert: We'll be right back. How do addictive patterns show up for you today?

[34:45] Alex Puette: Oh my gosh, addiction is still very much present in my life. I was about to say that, oh, at least it's with things that aren't as harmful as crystal meth. And while that may be true on the outside, I actually don't know that I can say that with full confidence. Just because you think about a very basic one that I'm sure we can all relate to is reaching for that rectangular device that lights up in your pocket. And I'm waiting for the elevator. And I do it without even thinking. Because instead of wanting to be with my own thoughts in that moment, I would rather have something else to distract me. I especially notice myself getting drawn to it when I'm feeling sad, when I'm feeling angry. It is the easiest thing that is so at my fingertips that I can do.

And only very recently have I really tried to be really aware of those moments. And sometimes I can be, and sometimes I can't be. I'm addicted to it. Something else that I've been really working on this last year with my therapist is my addiction to negative thinking. I feel like that negativity bias was so strong within me for so long. And I'm finally able

[35:58] Alex Puette: To have more awareness around it and just being the observer in those moments of negative thinking, I'm able to hold a little more space for it. But I am so prone to always going to the negative in any situation, right? Looking at that glass half empty, thinking about the what ifs, really future tripping in a way that causes me anxiety. I love ice cream. I love ice cream so much. I know it's cliché. I love it. I love dessert. And when I eat ice cream, I want to eat the whole dang carton and trying to like, learn that everything in moderation, super basic things, but that still have a grip on me. And that still take me away from how I'm feeling in the present moment, which is what we're always trying to get away from when we use any sort of addiction as a distraction.

For anyone who's listening, I'm looking at Alex and he's surrounded by 100 beautiful plants in his apartment. And I also think about the sublimation of addiction into positive addiction. I have clients who would say that they're addicted to AA. They're addicted to attending meetings. You said earlier when we were speaking off the mic that you're addicted to your plants.

[37:11] Bobby Steggert: And do you mean that? Is that an actual, literal description?

[37:15] Alex Puette: Yeah. Yeah, it's so funny. I actually, I have plants in front of me all around me. And yet, I didn't even think to say that. So yes, am I addicted to plants and plant care? Absolutely. Now, I feel like I became so drawn to plants because it was an opportunity. When I was caring for a plant, I was present. It was so meditative for me when I had 10 plants. And then I was like, I love this feeling so much. I want to keep it going. I want to care for 20 plants to keep those positive feelings of nurturing something and watching it grow. That's a dopamine hit right there, too. And now I have over 200 houseplants. And it would be wrong of me to say that it wasn't an addiction. It's funny, though, because I always say it's a positive thing.

But there are so many days where I'm watering them and caring for them. And I'm like, I don't have time to do anything else with my plants. I'm going to throw them all away. I was like, if I have to water one more plant, and yet, I don't do anything about it. And I keep them. And I spend hours a day sometimes doing it and neglect going to the gym. I neglect making dinner and go out and then order something because I've been caring for my plants all day. Now I don't have time to cook and do other things that are self-care. I know people that are addicted to spiritual experiences and going on retreats. And there are good addictions and bad addictions. But at the end of the day, they're addiction.

[38:53] Bobby Steggert: What's the most uncomfortable thing about not having meth in your life anymore? What do you miss?

[39:00] Alex Puette: This is such a hard question for me to answer only because I have to admit that I do miss it sometimes. And of course, while I miss it, I don't want to invite that back into my life. But I miss the feeling of being completely uninhibited. Meth gave that to me, especially sexually. I've done a lot of work both with my partner and with my therapist on reclaiming my sexuality without meth. That was a long process that took many years. And while I feel like I've made lots of progress, nothing compared to what it was like to have sex on meth. And I miss the false power that I felt on it. There are times when I'm really tired. And I know I have a lot to do. And I'm like, you know, what would make this just a little bit easier is a little hit of crystal meth.

And yeah, I miss it. And what I do miss about it, if we're on a scale, the joys and rewards and everything that I've gained by not doing it is so much greater. But it is there. I think it would be very naive of me to say that it's not. And even just admit it out loud, it's actually very helpful. And it gives those cravings that much less power over me in those moments.

[40:30] Bobby Steggert: I love that.

[40:31] Alex Puette: And so thank you for asking that, because that's not something I often talk about.

[40:34] Bobby Steggert: I really appreciate you saying that. Yeah, it's just a much more honest orientation to it.

[40:40] Alex Puette: It would be so naive to say that I was addicted to something. And that was a time in my life. And I went to rehab, and I've recovered. And now life is grand. And like, I'm a Disney princess and life is gonna live happily ever after. And that's so not the case. And addiction is so nuanced and so insidious that it really does creep in. In 12-step rooms, your inner addict is just waiting in the back room, always doing push-ups. It's ready to go at a moment's weakness. And I remember after that pink cloud bubble burst in my early recovery, and I felt that for the first time. It was like so jarring. And I think I naively thought in the beginning of recovery that, oh, this is something that I'll just feel in early recovery.

It won't be something that I feel later. And it's there. Life is so messy. It's, again, what we were talking about with darkness, right? The darkness is always there. The cravings are always there. I haven't picked up the drug in seven years, but I still think about it every once in a while. And I can't be naive in thinking that it won't be there.

[41:43] Bobby Steggert: What led to your decision to talk about this publicly?

[41:46] Alex Puette: In early recovery, being really angry that I didn't know more about crystal meth and crystal meth culture in gay culture before was in front of my face. And I felt really angry that I didn't have any education on that. And so I felt very called early on to, I was like, you know what? I'm going to find a way to tell a version of my story for the sole purpose of educating someone that's never heard about this. So that if they're confronted with it, they might be able to make an educated decision. I'm still working through that because I am having a hard time to this day owning my story with addiction because today, I am not completely obstinate. I avoid crystal meth. I avoid any hard drugs. But I still drink alcohol every once in a while.

And I still partake in marijuana use every once in a while and psilocybin, like things that are a little more like of the earth. Things were not a problem for me when I was addicted. Of course, I was completely obstinate for about three years. I think I dabbled the most, I was almost two years completely sober. And then when I started to reintroduce a little nuance, and it took a lot of talking to my therapist and my family and my husband and months and months of getting back to a place where I felt like I could maybe live a little more in the gray area. Once I got there, I really was like, okay, now I can't talk about my addiction story anymore, because me not being completely obstinate makes it totally null and void.

And then I feel like since that's happened, I've talked with lots of people who have been like, I'm also struggling a little bit with something that's really harmful to me, but I feel like there's more room for gray area. And I don't know. And I was like, that's my experience too. But nobody really wants to talk about that. Because it's not the typical model, right? It's not the typical addiction story. You hear the typical addiction story that we all hear that we see on TV that we read about in our newspaper is this person was like, addicted, they lost their job, they lost their home, they lost everyone in their life. Now they got sober. And now they're completely obstinate, they've been obstinate for 20 years, and their life has improved fully. And that is not my experience. And I'm now starting to realize that sobriety has so many colors and variations and looks differently on different people.

[44:19] Alex Puette: The more that I can accept that this is my journey with recovery. And this is maybe something that is a little more palatable to others that are struggling with some sort of addictive behavior. So it's twofold, right? It's also I think there is so much a part of me too, that wants the gay community and people outside the gay community to know that this is an epidemic. This is a problem. It is rampant in our culture right now. And it is going untalked about because the taboos surrounding it are so extreme, that everybody feels shame around it. And so nobody's talking about it. And so people are diving deeper into it. And so if I can just shed a little bit of light on my own story, then maybe someone else can hear that and find some sort of hope.

[45:07] Bobby Steggert: I think that's so beautiful. Also, while it's an epidemic in terms of crystal meth itself, the point you made earlier is one I agree with, which is that, first of all, no one is immune to their brain being hijacked by addiction. And many of us are addicted to something and don't even realize it. We are addicted to our technology. We're addicted to porn. We're addicted to binge watching television shows. We're addicted to ice cream or whatever food you choose to fill in the blank there. And while your story may be more, quote, extreme, it's something that I think you can help a lot of people as it applies to any aspect of addictive behavior in their life.

[45:46] Alex Puette: Yeah, thank you for saying that. I hope I can only speak from my own experience. But there was something about having a dark night of the soul, like a deep, dark night of the soul that has totally reshaped the way I think and now approach my life. And for anyone listening, whether it's addiction, whether it's something traumatic that's happened, whether it's losing someone really important and going through some deep period of grief or trauma, for me, I look at that and that experience, I don't know that I would change it, haven't yet. Because it has opened my eyes and brought such a deep awareness to other parts of my life that has made me a better human and made me want to be a better human and evolve and a better partner and a better friend and a better artist.

[46:40] Bobby Steggert: Also, the disconnection you experienced through addiction eventually led to reconnection. And here we are connecting about it in a way that I think will be very helpful to many people.

[46:51] Alex Puette: I hope so. I hope so. I think the more we keep these experiences that we deem as shameful inside, it just becomes like a sickness that takes over. And it's only by bringing something like that to light that true healing can happen. And it's only in connecting with other people, whether it's people that you love or people that have shared a similar experience. I think that's why 12 Step Rooms are so successful is because you go somewhere and you hear someone be like, and I remember like the first time going to a meeting and hearing somebody share and be like, Oh my God, that's what I experienced. I thought I was the only one. And it's only in sharing it, I think that we can de-stigmatize it for ourselves and for the people around us.