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[0:10] Robert Bannon: Welcome to the Roundtable. My name is Robert Bannon. You're listening to us on Broadway World, the Broadway Podcast Network, iHeart, Spotify, wherever artists are talking about art. Our next guest is an artist, but he also runs theaters. He directs things. He does all sorts of things. He might be up north. He might be in New York. He might be over in England. You don't know where he's going to pop up and show up and be doing. He's just going to be something. He's going to jump out and put on a show. Well, right there in East London from today to Saturday of Halloween, STOKER/WILDE is coming to Wilton's Music Hall right there in the UK. And why not bring Eric Rosen, who just so happened to write the book and the lyrics of this brand new original musical all about Bram Stoker and Oscar Wilde. Welcome to The Roundtable.

[0:56] Eric Rosen: Thanks, Robert. Thanks for having me.

[0:57] Robert Bannon: Eric, I think you do a lot of jobs.

[1:04] Eric Rosen: Listen, it's a gig economy. I got a nine-year-old kid. I got to put him through college. I got to.

[1:10] Robert Bannon: So before we get into this, you are known to this show. We talk about you often because you are the man behind the Cape Playhouse, who's about to celebrate 100 years. And we've had a great time this summer talking to people. You also have a pretty big old fancy Broadway star husband and a family. So how do you manage? Clay Bourne is in a show in New York. You have kids, you have the Cape, and you have now a show in the UK. So are you exhausted, tired, running on both ends? How do you do it?

[1:43] Eric Rosen: I mean, what a great question. I don't know. This wave of work has been insane. And I remember there was a time five years ago during the pandemic when I thought, well, I guess I'm done. I guess I'm just going to, I don't know, get a job teaching or something. And now I've never been busier or more excited about what's going on, I think, between the centennial at the Playhouse and this dream of having a show that I wrote with Rodney Bush come to life in this extraordinary and innovative way here in London. It's more work than I've done in a long time, but it's a dream. And thank God Clay is keeping the home fires burning and the kids safe for a few more days. And then I'll be home and I can't wait to get back.

[2:27] Eric Rosen: He'll be home. He'll be home and his show will be, this iteration of it, will be off and running and to be continued. So tell me a little bit. So Rodney Bush is from Tony and the Kiki, which is a band here in New York. Who came up with the idea? How did this idea for the show come to you or him?

[2:41] Eric Rosen: It's a real pandemic story. Rodney happened to be standing next to Clay and I when Broadway shut down on that March 12th. And I said, we're going to go up to the House of State. And I was like, if you want to come, and he said, maybe I'll come in a couple of days. And I was like, you come today or you're not coming. And then we spent four months together and started writing stuff out of that weird dark time. And so we started working on a different show that was about Walt Whitman. And then in 2022, I discovered a letter that Bram Stoker had written to Walt Whitman. And it's the gayest thing I'd ever read. And this fan letter he wrote when he was in college. And that sent me down a rabbit hole to try to figure out who Bram Stoker was.

And then I discovered his connection with Oscar Wilde, which I was totally blown away by. And it's been, you know, a couple years of kind of mystery sleuthing trying to figure out who they were and what they were up to. And because of Rodney's music, we decided very early on the voice of it would be certainly the voice of Oscar Wilde would be like the voice of Tony and the Kiki, sort of queer glam rock, super fun, rebellious, queer, fun 70s vibe. And that gave the show its heart. And then it's been, you know, years of developing it since then, but it's really a labor of love for both of us.

[3:59] Eric Rosen: It's really fun to think of disco rock, glam rock, gay vampires, Dorian Gray, like it all fits in my head, like it is about as it could be. But yeah, when you Why do gay people, as me included, and my husband really loves vampires and Dracula? And why is it a part of queer culture? Why do you think it lives in queer culture so much?

[4:24] Eric Rosen: That's really the heart of what we're up to in this project is how did these two Irish guys, Bram Stoker and Oscar Wilde, who grew up together, knew each other their whole lives. One writes Dorian Gray, and five years later, the other writes Dracula in the wake of this massive scandal of Wilde's conviction that our two most enduring queer coded literary monsters are given birth within a few years of each other. And they, you know, Dracula is our most enduring, coded queer monster legend. And what I sort of imagined in the show is that Dracula is a response to Wilde's conviction. In fact, Stoker started writing it like the week that Wilde went to prison, and he released it the week that Wilde was released from prison.

And those things are true. And if you think about that, the massive scandal and cultural change that was precipitated by Wilde's conviction, Dracula and how it's held queer secrets for 100-something years starts to make sense. And that's really what we're exploring is, you know, if not thinking like, oh, it's terrible that Dracula is a queer code or, you know, that people have been turned into monsters, but rather how in making this monster, he gave queer identity a safe place to hide in what would become a very dark 60 or 70 years. And in that hiding, we're trying to liberate that.

[5:51] Eric Rosen: I think it sounds like an incredible basis of a show. And what it says in the press release is that we know their names, okay? We know their characters that they've created, the monsters that they've created, but we don't know that they have a rivalry. So how did you find out information about them both? What is the research that went into doing this?

[6:10] Eric Rosen: I mean, you know, I have a PhD in performance studies. I'm an old school academic geek. So it's pretty well researched. You know, I can sort of say, you know, there's a lot of it that's true, a lot of it that's totally made up. But this is, you know, the mystery of working on queer history is there's no correspondence that exists between Bram Stoker and Oscar Wilde. They lived two blocks from each other over in Chelsea. They worked in the same industry. Bram was a theatre producer, not known as a novelist. They grew up together. They tried to marry the same woman. Bram won. Their lives were completely intertwined, and yet there's this gap. And to me, that gap is really telling. When Wilde was convicted, 400 men fled for Paris.

People's correspondence went up in smoke, and everything had to go really secret. And I imagine throughout the story how that secret could have played itself out. So, you know, a lot of it's sort of like Amadeus made up drama. And then a lot of it's really true. You know, a lot of it really did happen. And a lot of it is invisible to even scholars. A lot of the Wilde biographies barely mention Stoker. And to me, that's a huge oversight when you think, how could you miss Dorian Gray and Dracula and their connection? Wilde didn't write that much. He wrote six plays, a book of poems, and a novel. And it's a big, you know, it's a big, it's hiding in plain sight. And we know it, and it lives forever. Like, it will live, their work lives forever and has been stolen and adapted and changed and moved. But the original of it will be studied for a decade.

[7:42] Eric Rosen: So, this show in particular, it's one act, right? We're gonna, so I don't have to take my ADD medicine. I can get through one act. I don't, it's not three hours long.

[7:57] Robert Bannon: Look, we all love a 95 minute show. It's your dream. I'm getting so old and bad with it, that 95 minutes sometimes I'm like, oh boy, maybe we could cut. Oh yeah, no, this is going to be perfect. You don't have to.

[8:07] Eric Rosen: I love it. Did you see Best of All is Liberation? Brilliant, brilliant play. And I love the joke at the beginning. She's like, we got all dressed up and we spend so much money to go to the theater. And all we want is for it to be over soon.

[8:20] Robert Bannon: That's a perfect point. I love nothing more than go to the theater. And I love nothing more when I get to get to the curtain call. I'm like, yes, we did it. That was great. We did it. 95 minutes. You can see it. Tell me about this cast, because you put together some really incredible talent that has done all sorts of work around the world. Who's going to be singing and saying your words?

[8:38] Eric Rosen: Well, the two, I mean, Shami Campbell is an Irish director, young Irish director who's sort of a big deal over here. And he's incredible. And he's assembled a really first rate cast. Glenn Adamson plays Oscar Wilde and he's got a voice that is so crazy. Just like Tony and Tony and Kiki, he's got that high belt and that glam rock bona fides. And he's got this huge fan following here where all these people are buying tickets who are like his super fans. We got to go see him in concert and they're all coming. He was in Bad Out of Hell with Christina Bennington, who's playing Florence Balcombe. And she's another power belt and a lovely person. And the whole cast, it's full of... Oh, and my favorite is David Bedella, who's won three Olivier Awards, is playing Bram's nemesis, Henry Irving.

[9:34] Eric Rosen: Just camps it up and is a delight. He's one of my favorite, favorite people, an American actor who's been living over here for about 30 years. So yeah, it's full of incredible people and they're a blast and so fun. It's going to be incredible. And you described the music, is the music disco rock, like funk? It's not going to be old and farty music, because you think of things, this is a story from a moment ago, but the music is not classical and snoozy. No, we wanted to make it, if these people were revolutionaries, which I think they were, what is their heartbeat and how do we relate to that? So Oscar's sort of modeled on Freddie Mercury, David Bowie, Florence is kind of modeled off heart and big power belt of the 80s rock ballad.

And Bram is sort of a little Bruce Springsteen, a little Irish rock. There's a lot of Irish identity in the show and he's got some real Irish bona fides. And there's some sort of 70s camp and disco exactly, but it's much like Rodney's music. It borrows from 70s, 80s, but it's purely contemporary and really a score unlike anything I've ever heard in the theater. It's a blast. That's what is exciting. You're going to hear music you've never heard before, a story you've never heard before. And if you're going to be in the UK, then you could be jumping in and seeing something that's never really been seen before. If you're not, and this sounds like up your alley, like you're like, oh man, I'm in New York.

I'm in, I don't know, Oklahoma. Hello, all the theater, hi, gays in Oklahoma, wherever you are in the world, you can follow it and see what's going to happen to it. All you got to go to Stoker Wilde musical on Instagram. The link will be below. And you could, I'm sure Eric, this is not the end of the road. This is just the beginning of the dreams and ideas that you all have.

[11:24] Eric Rosen: No, this is a really innovative way to do this because, you know, it's only seven performances. But, and we had a three week workshop before this. And, you know, I keep joking that we were in this beautiful 18th century musical. It's so gorgeous and crumbling and couldn't be cooler. And we have this whole rock band. And I keep saying, well, it's a lot better than a workshop presentation at Ripley Greer. It's a very elaborate way for us to test it out and see what it is with an audience. We've been selling really well. So we'll have, you know, a few hundred people a night and we'll get to see what it is. And then we'll take it apart and we'll hopefully have a legitimate run after that. And then, of course, we'd love to get it to New York after this.

And, you know, maybe we'll do some workshopping in the city. But right now London is its home and it's a very British story and it should be here. The coolest thing about it is, you know, we are in the city where Bram and Oscar lived. And we went over to Dublin. We were where they're from, how present they are here as legendary figures. And it feels like bringing them home, especially Bram Stoker, who no one knows anything about. To remind people of what a visionary he was and what a misunderstood person is very, very cool.

[12:39] Eric Rosen: I love that. I look, the tickets are, if you go on the website to buy tickets, everybody, they're selling fast. There's already shows that are limited. So you better get a ticket and jump on here and get it fast. Also, the UK gets a lot of kudos all the time for making theater affordable, different than sometimes in New York. The tickets are only 14 pounds. I don't know how they say it. 14 pounds to 29 pounds. So that's like $35, everybody. So you can get a great seat. You can bring a date. Do they celebrate Halloween in the UK? Am I being?

[13:10] Robert Bannon: Oh, for sure. Yeah. The Halloween shows are pretty full. It's not like New York. I mean, I don't think they're that excited about it, but it definitely is. It'll be a fun Halloween celebration for the last night. It's the perfect way to celebrate. My jersey, my trashy jersey is showing that I'm like, I don't know if they celebrate Halloween in the UK. I don't know. They do in Hoboken, New Jersey, but it's not like the States, but it's certainly around. So it's the perfect evening. So if you're going to visit the UK or you happen to be there, it's the perfect evening. It's the perfect place to see theater and you can go see incredible new work and not have to break the bank and mortgage or UK castle to go see the show.

[13:50] Eric Rosen: So for you, this has been taking up your time that everything else has been taking up your time. What happens to Eric Rosen on November 1st? What does he do?

[13:58] Eric Rosen: Well, apparently I have to plan a season for the Cape Playhouse Centennial, so I should get on that. Now we're about to announce the season for the summer, which is going to be incredible. And then, you know, I'm really full on to celebrating 100 years of the Cape. Here we go.

[14:14] Robert Bannon: And you're going to juggle that and this at the same time?

[14:18] Eric Rosen: Yeah. And most importantly, juggle my child, who is the most important.

[14:21] Robert Bannon: Yes, and your family, and it'd be your dad. I tried to bribe your husband to tell me what shows were going to be at the Cape, and he did not buy it.

[14:29] Eric Rosen: He might not have known. It's changed a couple of times.

[14:34] Robert Bannon: If people are listening to this and they're not going to be in the UK, but they are in the United States, tell us a little bit, if you don't mind, about the other part of the hat that you wear. Why should people come up to the Cape this summer? Why should people support the Cape Playhouse?

[14:47] Eric Rosen: The Cape Playhouse is the oldest summer theater in the United States, and it is the birthplace of legendary stars like Bette Davis, and Henry Fonda, and Jane Fonda, and Humphrey Bogart, and Tallulah Bankhead, and all of them. And we're really trying to capture that history and tell our story with what we are now, which is still, for 100 years, a home for extraordinary Broadway actors in a beautiful, beautiful place to make fun, amazing, accessible theater in one of the most iconic and beautiful theaters in the country. And it turns out Cape Cod is really nice, and people should come spend some time with us. And on your way to Provincetown, check us out. But it's going to be an epic season, it really is. I'm so excited about it, and a fitting celebration of 100 years of extraordinary accomplishment for that beautiful, beautiful place.

[15:33] Robert Bannon: Well, I have been, okay, don't get mad, Eric. I have been to London. I have never been to Provincetown. I have never been to the Cape.

[15:45] Eric Rosen: I'm sorry, Robert, you're going to have to give back your card.

[15:49] Robert Bannon: I'm not gay anymore. I haven't even, I'm not gay. I've been to Palm Springs. Look, so I promised your husband I'm coming up this summer. I want to celebrate 100 years. I want to go there. My uncle, who is straight, allegedly, goes all of the time to P-Town. He told me that he went to Provincetown, and he saw a very famous Broadway singer, and she was very good. And he didn't remember her name, but he was going to look it up. And then he said her name was Audra McDonald. Have I ever heard of her? Maybe you are not gay. But the greatest talent is up there. Go to the Cape, and you have the most incredible, you know everybody. Everybody comes up and does the work. They say they have the most incredible time.

So if you're going to be in New York, if you're going to be looking for a vacation spot next summer, we just got you set up. You'll have great, incredible art. And if you're going to be in the UK, you have an incredible week of shows to run. And then we want to follow you and see what's to come of this incredible show. I'm sure you'll have great. Are you scared? Is it scary to open tomorrow? Is it scary?

[16:47] Eric Rosen: Terrifying. Really? Yeah, it's five years of my life. I mean, it's terrifying, but it feels good. You know, we've done a lot of work, and it has, a British person said to me, it's like, oh, it's got big fat legs. Great. It's got big fat legs. It's got a big bright future. You all amaze me. I think you are my couple goals. I love you. And I love him. I love your family. I think what you do is incredible. As a man who's been married for less than two years, who's trying to navigate being a gay couple, looking into a family, figuring life out. I look at the stories and the pictures and the journey that you guys are on. It makes me feel like it's possible. And it's beautiful. So thank you for this possible.

[17:35] Eric Rosen: Yeah, that's my message to everyone. It's possible and it's worth doing. And thank you for the art because I spent, you know, 20 years in therapy and a lot of money to hear that you could have it all you could have a full professional artistic life and a family. And you can have both and they can live in the same house together. It might not be easy, but it's it could be done. You're gonna be so tired all the time. But you're gonna make it.

[17:59] Robert Bannon: Well, when I come up to the Cape, I'm taking you out to dinner. That's what we're going to do.

[18:02] Eric Rosen: I will buy you a lobster roll. I promise you that.

[18:04] Robert Bannon: I mean, perfect. That sounds perfection. That sounds perfect. Eric Rosen, everybody. You gotta follow the show. You gotta look for Stoker Wilde. It's coming. It's gonna be watch. It's got big fat legs, as they say in the UK. And if you're in the UK, go see this before Halloween and then be on the lookout for the lineup and the incredible season that's going to come to the Cape Playhouse. And we'll be celebrating and we'll be promoting it. And we'll be doing and we'll be promoting and sharing all of that exciting stuff right here on the roundtable. Thank you for making time. Much love to your husband and your family.

[18:33] Eric Rosen: Thank you so much. You do.

[18:36] Robert Bannon: Happy Halloween.

[18:36] Eric Rosen: Happy Halloween. It's my birthday. Halloween.

[18:40] Robert Bannon: You and Nick Surly. Nick Surly's birthday. Happy birthday, Nick Surly.

[18:43] Eric Rosen: And happy birthday, Nick Surly. And we are good old Scorpio evil, terrible Scorpios. Nasty. Nasty.