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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to the Theatre Podcast, intimate personal conversations with the industry's biggest names. This episode is with Max von Essen, who you may know from Anastasia and a couple tours of Les Mis and Jesus Christ Superstar and gosh, so many others. He actually grew up in the area, gave himself, the area being New York, Long Island, gave himself two years to quote unquote, make it. Obviously, he did. He's a guy who needs these connections of his Broadway peers to feel like a whole person, which is not an uncommon thing we've been hearing these days, especially during COVID. He is just a super fun guy to chat with as you're going to hear in the episode. He's just very energetic and obviously you can tell loves, loves the arts, loves Broadway, loves performing, just so much fun.

Find me on Instagram and Twitter at Theatre underscore podcast. Hit like, hit subscribe. However you are listening, leave a rating and a review. Visit the theatrepodcast.com and now everybody, please enjoy this episode with Max von Essen.

[1:11] Alan Seales: One, two, three. Today's guest most recently starred on Broadway as Gleb in Anastasia and then toured the country as Marvin in the Lincoln Center production of Falsettos. In 2016, he completed his Tony, Drama Desk and Outer Critics Circle nominated run in An American in Paris. He's got so many additional Broadway and regional credits that if I listed them, we'd be here probably all day. He has TV credits that include The Good Wife, Gossip Girl, and Elementary, among, of course, many others, and now is one of the headliners of the upcoming Town Hall Signature Series Broadway by the Year on their May 24th concert about the Andrew Lloyd Webber years. Max von Essen, welcome to the Theatre Podcast.

[1:58] Max von Essen: Thank you so much and thank you for that intro. I found it actually very helpful during these tough times during the pandemic to hear someone intro me because then I go, oh, okay, relax. You did have a career and you'll have one again. Breathe, Max. You've done things. You can be proud. So thank you for that very lovely introduction.

[2:18] Max von Essen: And I shortened it too. I mean, it was like five and a half pages long, but you have done so much. And now, of course, we're meeting virtually face to face again here. And as you said, it's COVID, everything's been shut down. So actually, let's start with that. Of course, May 24th is this virtual concert coming up with the Town Hall Signature Series. But how have you been keeping busy in COVID in general?

[2:47] Max von Essen: You know, I'm just, I'm trying to like not be too hard on myself because it really has been a tough time. I know some people who have been thriving, you know, and they're happy to have the downtime. But most of my friends, it's been a really difficult time and to not, we are really the, you know, I feel for, of course, I'm very grateful. You know, I'm healthy and I didn't get COVID. But as far as industries, I mean, just the reality is that the live entertainment industry is really one of the hardest hits. So it's been very difficult. And I realized how much I miss it. I realized that I do it for more than just a job. I realized that I do it because I love it so much. And it's like part of my soul.

So it's been, in some ways, I have to just look at the positives. It's been an incredible reminder of how lucky I've been. What a great career that I feel I've personally had. All I've wanted to be was a working actor, you know, so I just like love to just jump from show to show and project to project. And I have been very fortunate. So I've been doing, you know, some virtual things. There was a lot of need for charity work in the beginning and making videos for different fundraisers and for the Actress Fund. And I was very busy with that and just, you know, finding what I can. The Irish Rep did a great little virtual project they filmed, Meet Me in St. Louis. We were all home alone in our apartments in front of green screens.

We kind of somehow managed to put together a musical all without ever being together. So a lot of places have been very creative. And luckily, I've been able to fill some of the time, not nearly enough. And I, you know, I'm not paying my bills on it. But there have been some things and there have been some silver linings. And I know we're, you know, going to get through it. I'm feeling super hopeful lately.

[4:23] Max von Essen: Yeah, things look like they're starting to come back. Of course, West End is still on track to continue to open, you know, in the next few weeks as we're recording this episode. And Australia productions have already started to open. Six announced there. What is it, the Irish tour cast? I believe it was Ireland or Scotland. It was somewhere in that region. I don't know my ignorant American self. I don't know.

[4:49] Max von Essen: I mean, if it doesn't affect us, I'll read about it later.

[4:54] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's right. If it's a big deal, you know, just follow my inbox. But tell me actually about where you grew up, because I want to know. Oh, you're drinking out of your American in Paris mug. That's cute. Tell me about how you grew up and what got you into theater. I love everyone's origin story. So like, let's start at the beginning.

[5:13] Max von Essen: Oh, okay, sure. I'll try to just, you know, narrow it down to just a minute or two. I mean, I grew up in the New York area. I feel like I'm very much a New Yorker, but I was born in Queens. And by the time I was about five or so, my parents moved to Long Island. And so it was still felt like a very suburban existence, but still very clear about 35 minutes on the Long Island Railroad. And we still had that benefit of, you know, being close to New York City, because I always, I mean, I knew I was going to end up here. It's just like inevitable. But for me, you know, I was the youngest of four, and they were more into sports and my parents, it was very important for us to play sports and push the academics.

But I just, you know, I somehow found, well, not somehow, to be honest, I remember being in elementary school. And we had a music class or something or some sort of school assembly and the music teacher in school played the piano. And I think I was in second or third grade. And I had never, of course, I mean, I knew what a piano was. I knew I had heard piano music, but I had never witnessed someone. You know what I mean? I had never been feet away from someone and seeing it in person, seeing their fingers moving. And I'm telling you, I remember it so clearly, like it was like I was at a magic show. It to me was like she was a sorceress, like a magician. I didn't understand how her mind was connected to her fingers, you know, at this young age, it was something that I totally connected to.

And I thought, I want to do that. And I begged my parents for a piano and lessons and they bought this cheap used piano. And they said, you know, okay, listen, if you show you love it and you've got the discipline, we'll, you know, invest in something better. And sure enough, by two years later, I had been really going for it and they invested in a nicer piano. And then by the time I was in middle school, I was good enough to play for the four shows. So like for the chorus concerts and things, and that kind of inspired me to like try out my voice. I mean, I always loved to sing for fun, but I didn't necessarily know if I was a singer. And I don't know if I even was at the time, but I knew I loved it.

And just like the piano, I was hooked. I became hooked on singing. And then from the piano to the singing, that led to the full musical theater, you know, experience and wanting to be in full shows and then wanting to do plays in high school as well. And then at that point I was hooked. You know, I didn't go to college to actually pursue this, although I did double major and one of my majors was vocal performance. I had a lot of vocal training and I performed anywhere I could, you know, all over campus, everything. But I was always through high school and college taking lessons, jumping in an acting class because I just loved it. But I didn't know if I had the, well, the courage or the chutzpah really to go for it.

And I mean, I tell you, it was weeks before graduation from college that I just said, you know what, if I don't give this a shot and probably being so naive probably helped me because I didn't know how you start. I mean, I grew up in New York, but I didn't know what you did. You know, like I was like, I guess I got to be a waiter first and then, you know, pick up backstage paper, which was still a paper and I would just circle things, go to non-equity open calls, mail my headshot in and then it just began. I just went for it. And here I am.

[8:19] Alan Seales: I guess what would you have done then if you hadn't made the decision to dive in?

[8:24] Max von Essen: I would be on Wall Street. I think I would. My other major was economics and I was already looking into investment banks and I would be in finance. Yeah, without a doubt.

[8:35] Alan Seales: Well, at what point do you realize that there's actually some potential and, you know, you say to yourself, oh, I might actually be good at this?

[8:44] Max von Essen: Well, I mean, I always, I did not think I thought I was good, but I did think there was potential. Like it seemed to me that like what I was doing in high school and college and roles I was getting that I would that I could be that I would be someone that could pursue this. You know what I mean? That I might be a if I don't know, it sounds terrible to say, but you know what I mean? I have the sense that you could go for it, but it's going to be hard, you know, and you don't know what's out there. But I'm still this like math, mind, finance guy. So I said, you know what, I'll give it two years and I'll go to auditions. And if and if I don't get, you know, a response from the theater community that there is potential here within two years and not like I had to be a star or even be in a Broadway show.

I just thought I would know after several months or many auditions, if there was a response, am I what am I getting a callback? Am I getting a nonunion show? Am I doing something regionally? Is anything happening? You know what I mean? So I would at least have a sense because, you know, I'm a fairly intelligent person, like, you know, be like, oh, okay, there's a response. And I said, and if not, not really, I'll go back and get it, you know, a graduate degree and continue and just move on. But I was really lucky. And it was like, I thought I didn't get a Broadway show right away. I didn't get a TV show. I got some regional stuff. I got a great tour with some with Liza Minnelli. I got a European tour of West Side Story.

So these were cool things and exciting, but they didn't need to be like the dream thing or like the absolute like goal. They were just great gigs along the way that I was like, oh, people are hiring me to sing and to act. I might be able to be a working actor for my life because that was enough for me. I still don't need, you know, a TV show. I like it. But you know, I don't need, I'm not looking for fame. I love doing it. And I would just rather do it for 50 years. Yeah, that's it. Period. I would rather do it, you know, for many more decades.

[10:55] Alan Seales: It's funny that you started, I mean, you take so much enjoyment in the regional theater and in the tours and things that you did because I think what a lot of people maybe who aren't into the scene as much or they're younger and thinking about going into it is thinking like Broadway may be the be-all end-all for them. And it's kind of a double-edged sword because you know, the Broadway and then the Tony nom, then like all of a sudden that's a, that's a way to open doors. Sure. But there's so much to be said and so much work you can do regionally. And as you said, over tours, right? Like some people, because you have your expenses paid for, can just save and save and save on these tours. And then they come back and it allows.

[11:43] Max von Essen: You know, to try the hand at Broadway, if that is the goal, or try something else, if that is the goal. I remember, Kate Rockwell was kind of burnt out. So, before she got Mean Girls, she became a sommelier, right? And then, now she came back to Broadway. She's like, I'll give this one more shot, and she got Mean Girls. Totally. So, I mean, she'd really been ready to leave the business, like, for good, and that happens a lot. Sometimes you just need like a little bit of a reset. But I luckily, like, I haven't been burned out, and I've also had periods where it was very dry. You know, there was a real dry spell, and I wasn't getting the gigs I wanted, but even during those tough times, I was still in it, if that makes sense.

I remember, like, I was still having great callbacks, down to the end for some great projects, that of course would have been awesome to get them, but throughout those times, I knew I was still in it, and I was competing, so. And like you said, I'm with that a million percent. Like, some of my actually best experiences have been around the country, or, you know, Paper Mill, or Sacramento Music Circuits, Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera. Like, I've done great roles on Broadway. I'm thrilled to have had them, but they're more of the supporting, featured nature, and whereas, because of, I think, my resume, and my relationships to some other theaters, I have those credits, which is great, but that kind of allows me to play larger roles.

So I've actually been, you know, the leading role, the starring role, and once again, I don't even need to have that, but it was pretty thrilling to travel around to some of these theaters, and play roles that I don't have the opportunity to play on Broadway. Same with, you know, tours. Like, it's quite possible that I, well, I've seen it, I've seen it. There have been shows that I've tried to get, or I couldn't even get an audition for, but then when it came the time for it to tour, they were interested in me, and it was a new situation. I could be frustrated that I wasn't taken more seriously for the Broadway, or I could also enjoy the fact that I got to, you know, tour the country as Marvin, you know, in Falsettos, with this, like, phenomenal cast, in a role that was just, like, life-changing, and one of the most challenging and rewarding things I've ever done, you know, in my career.

So it's, I love it. In fact, what I would love, now I'm putting it out there, you know, as things kind of bounce back, I would go on a tour in a second right now. It would be great to sort of, like, travel around as theater is coming back, and which cities are doing well, and, you know, where we could bring a show. So, secreting it. I think that tours are going to come back in, I guess, in greater quantity before Broadway does, because just the sheer cost of operating a Broadway show is insane. I always forget what it is, but it's like, to break even, you have to be in the 80th percentile, I believe, in terms of audience attendance. So if you're, like, in the 70s, then if that many empty seats, then you're just not breaking even, you're losing money, and all of a sudden you're just going to shut down.

Whereas if you were at 70 or even 60% in a regional house, or, you know, some other touring house, then that's totally normal, totally fine, whatever the case is, right? And also, I mean, Broadway, we rely, I mean, when a few shows come back this fall, it's going to be so exciting, and I know the tri-state area can support, you know, a couple of shows for a while, but the truth is, we rely absolutely on tourism, and that's going to take years before that bounces back to a level that can support Broadway fully. But if you bring a show to, you know, Des Moines, or Tulsa, or, you know, Chicago, they're not relying on tourism, they're relying on their area. So when you come to them, it is for them, and they're there, and there may be even more people there that haven't been able to travel, or haven't been able to leave their area. So I think it's a great time to bring theater around the country as we, you know, continue to bounce back here in New York.

[15:41] Alan Seales: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[15:56] Alan Seales: So bringing it back to you for a little bit, your training...

[15:59] Max von Essen: Yes, please!

[16:00] Alan Seales: Why were we talking about Broadway in general? Bringing it back to you, so your voice training, I was looking through, and of course, I saw you in An American in Paris, absolutely loved it, and looking through the other things on your resume, Les Mis, and these other traditional, I'll call them parts that are your standards, right? Your baritone tenor kind of thing. And then there's Jesus Christ Superstar just kind of stuck in there.

[16:23] Max von Essen: You rolled your eyes when I said that.

[16:33] Alan Seales: Yeah, because my question for you was like, as you are training and you are going out for roles, my voice, speaking for myself, I could never get cast in Jesus Christ Superstar because I've got that, you know, baritone crooning, maybe that's my mental block right there, but what I'm trying to say is, is there a difference for you in your training and what you're going for between the pop rock kind of thing and your traditional, your operatic, your Les Mis, your American in Paris, the things that you've, falsettos, things that you've toured with, right?

[17:09] Max von Essen: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because there's no reason why people shouldn't be able to do many things. And I do think my voice can do more than what people probably might think. But there are very few people that really, I feel like, can totally transform. Or someone like Jessie Mueller, I'm like, who is this woman? It's like her voice can do anything. And not just do it, but own it. And the fact that when I'm in American in Paris or something, I feel like I'm in the pocket. I feel like I'm in a place where I was somehow born to be, you know what I mean? Like in a natural voice, or even if you push that, the standard voice to slightly more legit, and then you put me to the Anastasia world, or Les Mis, that's also a good fit for me.

But it is fun to kind of also challenge yourself. And Jesus Christ Superstar, it was fun being in the ensemble, but when I had to go on for Jesus, it was a lot, and I would not go back. And I remember a year or two after that, I was offered it regionally, in Sacramento Music Circus, actually. And I started losing my voice after a few performances, and I was so frustrated. And I was calling my voice teacher, and I remember her saying, literally at the time, she's like, don't ever do this again. She's like, I am tired of having to work you through this, because it really was, it's the kind of thing that would be fun to do in concert, or maybe record something. But eight shows a week for me to sing roles like that, that's what I mean about it's not my natural voice.

When you're asked to do something, the kind of schedule that Broadway entails, and two and a half hours a night in a role, I think, and at least for me, it's very difficult to do it and have the endurance, and then on top of that, if it's sort of like not your natural place, you know what I mean? But if it's in your natural voice, like kind of where you should be, and of course it's going to push your ability and push your range, but my voice naturally should be more in American Songbook, Golden Age of Theater. So my Jesus Christ Superstar days are over, but it was really pretty thrilling. Also too, I've got this high lyric baritone voice, but part of that is it flips into a soprano, and it's beyond countertenor, it's almost like I can do super high soprano, so I was able to mix a lot of that and kind of wail some of the Jesus stuff, so it was interesting how I was able to fake it.

[19:37] Max von Essen: I think maybe that's Abby Mueller's secret, or Jessie Mueller.

[19:40] Alan Seales: Well, both of them.

[19:42] Max von Essen: Both of them, yeah.

[19:44] Alan Seales: Yeah, the secret is they're just like, well, I'm going to fake it, and one day hopefully no one will catch me.

[19:49] Max von Essen: They are good.

[19:51] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[19:52] Max von Essen: Well, that's your next cabaret show right there, is taking all these pop songs and bringing them down into making them a jazz standard.

[20:00] Alan Seales: Hmm.

[20:02] Max von Essen: Right?

[20:03] Alan Seales: I don't not like it.

[20:05] Max von Essen: Huh.

[20:06] Alan Seales: There's like Over the Moon from Rent.

[20:11] Max von Essen: Oh my gosh.

[20:12] Alan Seales: It's like, you know.

[20:13] Max von Essen: All you have to do is jump over the moon.

[20:17] Alan Seales: That's funny.

[20:19] Alan Seales: So going to the Townhouse Signature Series.

[20:22] Max von Essen: Yes.

[20:23] Alan Seales: The Andrew Lloyd Webber years, is this something that when they came, did they come to you and they were like, which of our performances do you want to do? Because every one of their concerts, this is one of three that's happening on May 24th, and this one's about Andrew Lloyd Webber. So is this one specifically, was this given to you, or did you ask? You're like, I want some, I want me some Webber.

[20:41] Max von Essen: You know, I didn't ask. At first he said, you know, I need, I really could use you on the Kander and Ebb. And I was like, okay, great. And then I was kind of brainstorming some Kander and Ebb songs that I already know, and he wrote back within like a day, and he's like, oh, no, no, I don't know what I was thinking. He's like, you should of course be on the Lloyd Webber. I mean, I did, as we were talking about Soup Star on Broadway, it was my Broadway debut. And then years later I did the Evita revival. I've done some shows regionally as well. And so it's something that feels comfortable and feels exciting in my voice. And so he, he's the one, you know, Scott was the one that immediately liked it, did an about face the next day.

He's like, oh no, no, no, absolutely. You know, you've done two Broadway shows and it's Lloyd Webber and let's, let's have you do this. So I'm excited. I'm just excited about the whole series in general. I'm just so glad people are, you know, continuing to create and, you know, and be creative. You know, I think a lot of us thought that this was going to turn around more quickly, you know, and I think now with all this time passing and there is theater happening, there are some things happening, there are outdoor events, but the reality is it's still going to be, be some time. So I'm just so, I mean, Scott's been doing this, you know, for almost a whole pandemic, but I like that he's, you know, it's the town hall series again.

Have you, have you been able to see any of the, there's been a lot of theater that I've watched that's actually been on Zoom. We use Zoom sort of interchangeably as like, let's have a video call, right? Like hand me a Kleenex, but there's actual Zoom performances that I've been watching and, and I applaud the attempt and I'm not, I'm not trying to talk down about anything because there's always learning. There's always improvements to be made to any show. And there's something though about, about watching a performance, the exact same performance on stage versus over Zoom, that doesn't seem authentic to me. And, and I wonder what your thoughts are. I know what my thoughts are, but I want to hear yours first.

[22:43] Max von Essen: Well, let me say this because I also don't want to really criticize. Anything that's happening now is, is great that it's happening, but, but I'm with you. I don't want, that's not how I want to see a play or a musical. You know, I want to see more and I'm enjoying the theaters and the groups that are just getting a little bit more adventurous and creative. And even if it's flawed or like, you know, I did, like I was saying before, what I did with the Irish Rep, Irish Repertory, was it perfect? No, but it was cool. And we were creating and we were all connected over Zoom. So we felt like we were in the same room when we were filming it and we were hearing our lines in time and people were acting with each other and emoting. And we were.

[23:54] Max von Essen: Who cares? Let's just keep getting creative and doing this stuff. So I applaud it all, but I'd rather see... I want more than just a Zoom live. My thoughts were that, all of a sudden, it feels too much like a conference call to me because the video is static. And that's what's, I think, missing to me. Because when I'm looking at a live performance, I just love... Of course, sitting in the audience, of course, feeling... I'm 6'1", so feeling my knees squished against the row in front of me. And that whole experience is part of the fun. But yes, it's the experience. And for me, though, I can look around. And even though there may be someone just belting their ass off downstage center, I can still look around and watch the ensemble.

Or I'm the nerd who's checking out the fly system to see what's coming in and out. And I'm seeing the whole thing. And you feel it. There's fog, there's lights, there's the vibration from a good sound system, all of this stuff. And so I'm not just focused on one thing. But when all of these performances are coming across online, what's missing to me is a camera cut. I want to see a slightly different angle, but not too many because you end up with cats, the movie, and it doesn't stay on a damn shot long enough to get the choreography absorbed in your mind. But we won't go there. But yeah, that's no comment on that. But that's my whole thing is that I want... It just seems like I'm just staring at someone's face the entire time uncomfortably. And I don't want to look away, but I have nowhere else to look.

[25:38] Alan Seales: I know. I know. Listen, there's nothing that's going to replace live theater. And even like what I was talking about before with the Irish Rep, you can't. But if we can at least, or like this Town Hall series, I've been talking with the director and he's just, listen, we're not going crazy and we still want it to be a live performance. And we are supposed to be alone and safe. So we're essentially doing it in our apartments. But still, we're discussing, is it more than just a blank wall? Is it better? Will it be more appropriate to film this number at night with a different feel of the lighting or where in your apartment? Let's discuss this. Just have a little bit more than like, okay, I'm singing in a blue box now.

We've done for so many things in this year and virtual events and galas and things, and that's great. But now we've been doing it for a while and the production value can only be so much, but at least we're having the conversation to just, okay, and then let's then maybe when we edit this, maybe this would be a good one to be in black and white or a certain kind of filter on it or just make it sepia to give an old-fashioned feeling. So we're trying to just create a little bit more than that Zoom feeling while also giving people that these are live performances in one take, singing it live, just like Town Hall. So we don't want to mess with it. We're not editing pieces of it together. We're not fixing the vocals. We're not sweetening things or fixing the pitch. It's a real performance, but hopefully a little bit elevated now.

[27:16] Max von Essen: Good, good. I'm really happy to hear that. And the things that I've seen come out of the Town Hall so far have been really, really good. I'm excited to see this, and I'm glad that there's some post-production that, of course, is going to happen. I mean, the live side of things is always nice, but as someone who produces live events, too, it's not always needed. And I would rather watch a well-produced, well-polished event that's gone through post-production than something live that's just live for the sake of being live. It doesn't make sense to me. So I'm glad it's going to be this way. I'm very happy. Have you recorded yours yet? Are you still going through all this?

[27:53] Max von Essen: No, not yet. I'm doing two songs, and we were just kind of discussing it. I'm going to do some little rehearsals in my apartment instead of my tripod and kind of film it and sing it through lightly just so I can get it ready and get the framing and figure out how to get the best sound and everything and just play around with it a little bit at this point. But it's going to be fun. They're good songs and great performers in it, and it's nice to be working on something. There are a couple of things like this, or tomorrow I'm going up to, I forget where exactly I'm doing this concert for, but it'll be virtual, but I'll be in a theater with Telly Leung and Laura Osnes, and it will be brought to people's homes.

It's virtual, but we'll be there. We'll be rehearsing in the space with a small band, and we'll be hanging out, and we'll be, you know, it feels like one step closer to the live performance. A couple of these things pop up lately, and they're not even much money, but people are paying, and they're trying to do the right thing and appreciating the work of actors and singers who've had a tough year. And that just gives me focus and gives me a little bit of a schedule and gives me some music to sink my teeth into again, which it's been for the past year, I've kind of had to create my own excitement. There's only so many times I can go over and sit at my piano and open up a book and sing, you know. So now I feel like a little bit is coming back, you know, in a new way. So it's keeping me inspired and connected.

[29:31] Alan Seales: That's what I was going to comment a second ago on this great Town Hall Signature series. You're one of several just amazing people that are part of this whole series, and you're recording on your own, and you're sending in the footage, and they're doing things, and you don't get the benefit in this particular instance of getting to perform with Ethan Slater and Liz Calloway. You are, but you're actually not in the same room with them, right?

[30:01] Max von Essen: I know, I know. It is a bummer. I mean, I really, really miss it. Those nights at Town Hall are always so fun. There's always so many great people, and you're all hanging out backstage. And that's one of the big things, you know, about this whole year that's been so difficult, because like I said before, I knew this instinctually, but I've just been reminded that I don't just do this because of the job, you know, and not even just because of getting out on stage or, you know, doing the work and then being able to perform for people. I do it for the whole experience, the whole community of it, and connecting with people. What I miss the most is like just walking into a room and seeing these people, like you just mentioned, or walking into a rehearsal space and having that process.

And I need it, you know, I feel a little bit lost without it. So if I could just, like I said, tomorrow, you know, I'm going to see a few people, and sure, there won't be an audience, but we'll be together. It'll be one step closer to creating and being in a room with people and singing. And so that gives me hope that we're getting there, and hopefully one day soon we'll be back in Town Hall.

[31:02] Alan Seales: We will. I mean, we're getting there, barring no weird freakouts, breakouts, whatever. I think we are heading in that direction. I just hope it's sooner. I think the Off-Broadway shows are going to be able to open up because of the house sizes. Off-Off-Broadway, definitely, like the Green Room 42s, the 54 Belows, the things that can operate on a lower cost and still maintain social distancing, I think, of course, we're going to have tons of those. This is my prediction by the end of 2021. And I think it's going to be really hard, though, to bring Broadway back just because of all the politics involved with everything. What was I reading the other day? There's basically five landlords every show has to pay money to. It's insane how much goes into all of that crap. But I digress. Let's wrap up this episode with three standard closing questions that I ask everybody. The first one, very simply, is what motivates you?

[32:05] Max von Essen: Art and bringing joy to people.

[32:10] Alan Seales: Easy, easy.

[32:11] Max von Essen: Oh, yeah. I thought, is it like a one word? Can I talk for a minute?

[32:14] Alan Seales: Oh, sure. You can talk as much as you want. I was going to go on a nice question.

[32:18] Max von Essen: No, I mean, honestly, that is what motivates me. It's like the process of doing, we were just talking about it. It's a part of me. I don't know how to do anything else. And I just love that I can do that work, step out there and help people just escape or be totally engaged and have their life change for a couple of hours. I love it and I miss it.

[32:42] Alan Seales: Then the next question is, what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[32:50] Max von Essen: Well, work your ass off. That's for damn sure. My younger self, I would be like, Max, don't take yourself so seriously. You are going to find the most incredible world of people. Don't think life is just what it feels like now because I was a sad, scared, little closeted kid. And somehow, I hung in there and I would tell any kid out there, trust me, you will choose your path. You will have the freedom and you will choose your world, choose your friends, you'll create a family and you will find that happiness moving on or find your love and your passion in your own little world.

[33:35] Alan Seales: Beautiful. Okay. Last question, hardest one. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[33:45] Max von Essen: Gypsy.

[33:47] Alan Seales: That was easy.

[33:48] Max von Essen: I don't know what it is. I could see that regionally. I could see a high school do it. I could see Patty do it, Bernadette, Tyne, Ethel, anyone. Love it.

[34:00] Alan Seales: Wonderful. All right. So, where can we find you on social media?

[34:04] Max von Essen: I'm on Twitter and Instagram. It's Maxispad, M-A-X-I-Z-P-A-D. Sorry, I made those names a very long time ago. I didn't realize social media was going to be so huge for so long. So, it's at Maxispad and MaxVanEssen.com, but really the Instagram and Twitter is where I post most things and you can see what I'm up to and performing and look at silly pictures of my cat.

[34:27] Alan Seales: Wonderful. You can get more of me at thetheaterpodcast.com. Find more about Max and all of the things we talked about on the website in the show notes. I'm on Instagram and Twitter at theater underscore podcast. Hit like, hit subscribe wherever you're listening, leave a rating and a review. This has been edited by well-rounded hoodlum productions. Thanks to Jukebox the Ghost for intro and outro music and Max, thank you most of all. This has been so much fun.

[34:49] Max von Essen: Oh my gosh, I know. Seriously, thank you. What a lovely surprise.