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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome back to The Theatre Podcast. Intimate, personal conversations with the industry's biggest names. I'm Alan Seales and our guest today is now Tony nominee, Rachel Dratch, who you probably know very well from her SNL days. Of course, Debbie Downer is one of my most favorite characters that she's ever done on the show. And of course, one of hers, too. We get into that a little bit. We are recording in New York City. So just a little disclaimer from her side. Sometimes you hear some sirens. She lives in Midtown, I think, so that she can be close to the theater. And she's just so fun and such an awesome person to talk to. Her love for performing and comedy just knows no bounds. I am super excited to share this interview with you.

So, as always, find me online, Instagram and Twitter, Theatre underscore podcast. Leave a rating and a review. Find me on TikTok, at the Theatre Podcast. I still don't know what I'm doing, but I'm having fun. So we're going to take a quick break and then come right back for Rachel Dratch.

[1:16] Alan Seales: Today's guest is no stranger to live performing, having been a cast member on Saturday Night Live for seven years, originating Debbie Downer, one of my all-time favorite characters and still being seen for the occasional guest appearance. She's got her own memoir called Girl Walks Into a Bar, has hosted her own late night show, has numerous off-Broadway credits and now just made her Broadway debut in POTUS, or Behind Every Great Dumbass, Our Seven Women Trying to Keep Him Alive, which just resulted in a 2022 Tony nomination. Rachel Dratch, welcome to the Theatre Podcast.

[1:51] Rachel Dratch: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[1:53] Alan Seales: Oh, you're very, very welcome. And I was surprised to read that after being in the limelight for so long and having a career as long as yours, that this is your Broadway debut.

[2:04] Rachel Dratch: It is my Broadway debut. Yes. I mean, it's very exciting. For me, anyway.

[2:12] Alan Seales: And I met you, yeah, we were talking off air for a second, that I met you during Tailspin.

[2:17] Rachel Dratch: So you've got your second political...

[2:19] Alan Seales: Second political comedy, yes.

[2:21] Rachel Dratch: Well, talk me through how you got involved with POTUS because, I mean, I guess at this, and we'll get into your career and et cetera and how you got to the stage at this point, but POTUS on Broadway, hilarious with some amazing, with six other amazing women.

[2:37] Rachel Dratch: Yeah, so, I mean, I'm not quite sure how I was, I think the reason I'm in this is because of Susan Stroman, who tapped me like a fairy godmother of Broadway. I did a reading with her of a musical that didn't take off, but that was, I don't even know how many years ago. And then I did her one night only, Crazy for You at Lincoln Center, had a pretty funny part in that one. So I don't know, I guess she had me in mind when she was directing this as someone to round out the comedy cast of this show. So I believe it was all because of Stro, as I now call her, now that I'm in the Broadway scene. Yeah, so that's how it all came about.

[3:22] Alan Seales: That's so much fun. I saw the show the other day, and I'm not going to spoil anything, but it's a group of people coming together, the cast coming together. And I've known Lily Cooper for a long time, and just this cast of women coming together, I've never seen all of you together, or even pairs of you together before, and you all work so well together. And I guess, Stroman too, when you're working together, when you're getting to know the script, when you're getting to know each other, how much of the timing, what we see on stage came from the script, came from Stro, and how much did everyone bring into each character?

[4:03] Rachel Dratch: Oh my gosh. I don't know. It was kind of a mix of everything. I mean, Susan Stroman is so chill, but she has her own, she has a vision, but she never comes in, like, this is what I see here. She just very calmly and mellowly says, start here, go here, whatever, and then brings her whole comic sensibility to it. But she's also extremely open to what all the performers bring. So it never felt like, I don't know, it just felt very, very organic in terms of what all the actors brought. And yeah, it was a very lovely process. And then, yes, Susan Stroman is very open to people's comedy ideas too, and input, even if it wasn't comic. Even if it was like a moment in the play that's a little more, you know, heartfelt or political or making a statement. We had a few discussions, like, what are we trying to say here? And that kind of thing. So it was all really positive, except we all got COVID. But aside from that, it was a really positive process that felt very natural.

[5:10] Alan Seales: So is now the process of Broadway, eight shows a week, compare that to the pressure that I suspect people are under on SNL, right? I mean, it's two totally different things.

[5:24] Rachel Dratch: I would say SNL felt like more pressure because you were having to write every week. And, you know, if you've ever tried to write a comedy sketch, it's not always easy. So, you know, you're always trying to come up with your next character and hope you get on the show and, you know, hope that the host of that week likes your sketch. So it was almost like an audition every week, sort of, in a sense. So this doesn't have that. This is like, once you're there, you're there. And of course, it's physically demanding, this part and a lot of our parts in this show. So definitely that Broadway schedule is no joke. But then I think of people who are doing a musical where they actually have to sing and dance.

And that's a lot harder. Or I think of like, you know, Macbeth. I think, oh my God, imagine doing that twice a day. Because every time we have a two show day, I'm like, this is hard. But it's actually a lot of fun. But it definitely takes over your life. You know, you're not going away on the weekend.

[6:19] Alan Seales: So there's a muggle, a muggle friend of mine. He took his family to go see Hamilton the other day. And he said, he said, I saw the maddening of Hamilton. So like, there's a whole other cast that comes in for the night show, right? Like, those people are paid to do that very well.

[6:36] Rachel Dratch: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I love it. In POTUS, your character spends most of the show high on drugs, which are just friggin hilarious. So yeah, you mentioned the physical aspect of it. Is that something that you fell into over, I guess, over time? Like, talk to me about the comedy chops, right? Because we'll get into Second City. We'll get into Young Rachel. But do you prefer slapsticky or like, highbrow comedy, if we want to call it that?

[7:05] Rachel Dratch: Well, I mean, honestly, I like all forms of comedy, I think, except maybe the kind of thing where you're tricking the audience and prank comedy. I'm not like, I'm so bad at that. And that makes me want to run away. But aside from that, I mean, I mean, to participate in it. But aside from that, though, no, I mean, you know, I came up in improv and sketch it. But I also did the school plays and stuff like that. I was a drama major. So I sort of had this whole melange going on there. But my most comfortable zone, I guess, is improv and sketch. And so the what I love about this part is, just all that, like, you know, on the page, it says one thing, and then it's like, what are you gonna do with that thing?

You know, especially in this role, which is kind of like the clown of the show. So I love that thing where you're finding, oh, if I do this, like, you know, this will get a really big laugh or the thing that that whole sort of science of on stage, like, it's weird if I like, move my hand here, and then say the line, it gets a laugh. But if I do it at the same time, it does, like, I love all that stuff. So it's just fun to experiment and trial that stuff out in front of the audience. And so yeah, I mean, I don't know, I guess I really love doing physical comedy. But it's never, I've never thought of myself as like, I'm strictly a physical comedian. I've never really even thought of that until this play came along, I guess. So yeah.

[8:30] Alan Seales: It's strange when I did some of my own improv in college, because I'm that guy as well. And people are like, why? It's improv. Why do you rehearse? Why do you practice? Why do you practice improv? And the answer I would always give them was like, it's that part of your brain is a muscle just like anything else needs to be flexed, needs to be, you need to strengthen it, you need to grow it because you need to be able to train yourself to be able to react in certain ways. And people make fun of the yes, and part of things all the time. But it's so important to come out and add to a scene or only come out when a character is needed instead of just coming out to get some attention, right? So go ahead.

[9:17] Rachel Dratch: Oh, no, I was gonna say like, I used to improv almost every single night of my life in my 20s. So it used to be just like part of my life so much. And I could never imagine not doing improv. And now I haven't done it in years, which is so strange to me. But in terms of the practicing, I mean, the biggest hurdle to overcome, to become a good improviser is the fear of not knowing what you're gonna say. So that's why you rehearse. It's like practicing, getting over that fear, practicing, jumping in when you know there's an edit needed, and you don't quite know what you're gonna say, but you just trust you're gonna come up with something. Because that does take a ton of practice. When you first start out, you're thinking of a line, you're trying to think of a joke in the back line, like, well, what if I say that? And that just doesn't work, as you soon discover. And I think the first sort of leap you can take when you're improvising is jumping out without knowing what you're gonna say.

[10:16] Alan Seales: How do you balance that then with writing sketches? Because if you're trying to write, writing obviously is something you need to plan. You can't just go out on live television not knowing what you're gonna say. So how do you balance that with the improv training?

[10:27] Rachel Dratch: Well, that's a great question. I mean, at Second City, you start off in improv, and then you start practicing writing sketches. And at Second City, a lot of sketches came out of an improv scene. So we weren't sitting at computers, which didn't even exist then. No, I mean, we weren't sitting there writing them in any sort of cerebral way. We would just do a sketch, and then it's like, oh, that sketch works. Let's let that improv scene work. Let's try that as a sketch. And then you would kind of hone it and shape it. And that's how we develop material at Second City. Then you get to SNL, and it's a whole different thing, because you are sitting there in front of your computer. And then your brain kind of has to do this shift of like, wait, how am I going to write a sketch when I haven't? Because up on your feet, I'd come up with a lot funnier stuff improvising than I would sitting there.

But then you learn how to do it that way. It was like a learning curve. Luckily, you might know some people there that can help you along. I mean, I've seen a lot of people that are really funny that go through SNL. They don't have that adjustment, and it's really hard there. So yeah, and then your brain sort of starts to work like a sketch writer. You start to anticipate what would get a laugh. Or I always like writing sketches with other people, because then you have the person right there. Like if you're laughing together, then it's probably something funny.

[11:54] Alan Seales: Do you have a favorite character that you have over time? I mentioned Debbie Downer as one of my favorites. But are you like, I'm so over Debbie. I would rather do something else.

[12:04] Rachel Dratch: Well, I mean, when you're on SNL, I was there for seven years. So you're always trying to come up with a character that might stick or even that might succeed one time even.

[12:48] Rachel Dratch: Debbie Downer definitely got me the most. That's the one people come up to me the most about. I'm not like, I'm so sick of this, because it was almost like a time capsule to me. I did it then, and it's kind of had some cultural staying power. So that makes me happy that some people don't know that that phrase came out of the sketch. Some people think the sketch came out of the phrase, but that's not true. So I like that we created this thing that is now a term. Except I do feel bad because one of my best friends' name is Debbie, and she's not a downer at all. And my Aunt Debbie too. And I feel really bad that I associate, because I didn't know it was going to stick. So to my friend Debbie and my Aunt Debbie, I'm very sorry.

You are not downers at all. And then my other probably fave is probably the lovers in the hot tub with Will Ferrell, because that was just so goofy and cringy and made me laugh a lot. So those are probably my ones that I have the most fondness for, whatever. I was thinking of everybody you were just naming, and I think actually part of the training, the improv training, that you actually have to be good at and have to practice this is not laughing, not breaking. Because when you have to take these characters seriously for them to come across and be funny to who's watching. So when you're in these scenes with Tina and with Will Ferrell, and especially Jimmy Fallon is the king of cracking, but when you're with these people, is that something that you're actively fighting against? Or are some of these people, especially some of the hosts too, they come in and they're like these serious actors, so in the moment, are they just there goofing off?

[14:19] Rachel Dratch: I mean, I would try not to laugh because, well, back before I was ever on the show, I always liked it when people cracked up because it just made me laugh at home. But you try not to just because it's sort of like a cheap, like you know the audience is going to go nuts, so you try not to do that just because then they're not really laughing at what you're saying, they're just laughing because you're laughing. So I would really try, but there were a few times, obviously that first Debbie Downer, we really lost it, and a few other times. But I really made a valiant effort not to. I'm happy to say I have not broken yet in POTUS.

[15:00] Alan Seales: Really? Because I'm like, I am not going to break on Broadway stage, you know what? I think it was Leah. When I was watching it, I think someone almost broke? I don't know.

[15:12] Rachel Dratch: I can't remember who it was though. I was going to ask if it was you, but yeah, that's impressive because POTUS is so funny and all of you just don't stop.

[15:22] Rachel Dratch: Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of fun. Do you have a favorite, I guess a favorite moment in that? Because, I mean, your character is all over the place.

[15:33] Rachel Dratch: Um, I mean, I love so many moments that Selina Fillinger has written. So I mean, I like at the beginning, I'm all, you know, mousy and scared. And I love playing that, like that's kind of my wheelhouse. So I love the first act, but then it's also fun to, like for me as a person to bust out of that for myself and for this character. So it's very freeing like, you know, it's funny, like, you know, if you have to play angry for a whole play, your body becomes physically angry in a way, you know what I mean? And so for this, to play this like freed up, loopy, trippy person, it's kind of fun. Cause like, I feel like my body actually gets this like little vacation every night. It's, it's, it's fun. It's weird how that mind body thing works. So I don't get all metaphysical here, but I know, but like, you might not expect me to be a comedy person, but I've noticed, like, it's just kind of cool. It's almost like meditation when I'm in the second act.

[16:34] Alan Seales: Well, I think, I think it's, it's, again, it's the difference between acting and being, because for you to take it seriously, for the audience to take you seriously as this character, you have to go there and you're convincing your body to react in a certain way that your brain is pretending to be or being. And I, I absolutely love that. And I, I, I've talked with, with so many people, um, who do the opposite, right? Like Elizabeth Stanley from Jagged Little Pill going through all the trauma and the abuse and all the serious things that her character does eight shows a week. I was like, how do you come out of that and still be a normal person? And she's like, she said, literally she would go off stage at the end of every show after curtain call.

I just like the, everyone knew to leave her alone and she would just literally shake, shake it out and go, you know, just get it all out of her system and make sure like she's leaving Mary Jane on stage so she can go home and be Elizabeth Stanley. And I assume that for something like, like you, uh, and POTUS and all the other women in the show, they are, are happy and thrilled to be able to take some of that home a little bit.

[17:45] Rachel Dratch: Yeah. I mean, maybe that's why I'm in comedy. I don't know, but it's, it's just, it's fun to be around laughter all night. You know, it's fun to be in a room of a thousand people and everyone's laughing, especially now. Like, um, you can feel the audience really wants to laugh. And I don't know if it's cause like Broadway's back and the pandemic's over or just cause like the world right now. But if there's a, there's this kind of feeling of like they're laughing, but then they're also psyched that they're laughing. I can't even explain it, but it's just this vibe in the room that's really fun.

[18:13] Alan Seales: Well, it's going on, it's going on a journey. I say this all the time on the podcast, you're going on a shared journey with a room full of strangers. And we are evolved from herd animals who love to be together and have these shared emotional experiences. And that's my version of spirituality is, is allowing myself to experience these things with all these people that I don't know. And that to me gets me excited. I love that. And I missed that. I missed that so much. And to your point about having a thousand people in a room eight times a week that are laughing together, not maliciously, is one of the greatest things I think we have right now. And it's, and people want it. People need it, whether they realize it or not.

[19:03] Rachel Dratch: Yeah. Yeah. So why did you get into, why'd you start performing in the first place? Because I feel like there's the people who are super shy. And like you said, want to get over that fear and get in front of people. And then there's the other people who are super needy and want the attention and crave that attention. And there's very little in between. Right.

[19:19] Rachel Dratch: Well, I was really shy when I was little, like, but then, then I don't know if I'm like junior high, I sort of was like class clown type of person. And then I was really into watching, it's sort of this whole combo, like perfect storm that equals this comedy actor, because I was like really into watching SNL when I was little, the first cast. And, you know, my, my, my dad was very funny. So like, my parents appreciated comedy. And so, you know, they, when I was really little, they watched like laughing and then Carol Burnett and like I said, SNL. And so I had that going on around me. And then like, I was into the, I mean, I was into the school plays and stuff like that. And so I don't know, then I found like in acting, I wasn't a kid.

It was like, I'm going to be an actor. Like it wasn't this, but I just thought like, oh, that'd be really cool. Like when I was watching SNL, like how do they, or I remember I went to see Annie when I was like 10 or something. And I was like, wait, how are these kids up there? Like, how do I do that? You know, but, but then like when I, you know, as I got older, the whole school play thing and all that, like, I found that the comic parts were just much more, not only to my liking, but probably to the audiences. Like I wasn't a drama person, you know, I just was not like, that's not, not only do I not think I'm that great at it, but I also, I just don't have as much fun. Like to me doing drama for me is like, I may as well just be like playing basketball or something.

It's just not my thing. But I mean, of course there's a whole spectrum of, you know, where you are. Like, I don't want it to seem like I only do big, broad comedy, but just comedy is where the fun was for me.

[21:03] Rachel Dratch: So then in college, I got to join the improv group and then I was just like, oh my God, yeah, this is like, I just saw, I was like, well, I feel like I'd be good at that, you know? And then, and then it was just so fun. Like that was my joy place was the improv. And then I decided I'm making this really short, but then I, or maybe really long depending on your opinion. But then, but then I decided to like go out to Chicago. I was just going to try, cause we took a little trip to Chicago and saw Second City and Improv Living. I was like, okay, after college, I'll just like try this. And just so I know I gave it a shot, you know? And so that's how I ended up actually making the move. And then, and then it was really slow progress.

Like most people I know, like no one I know really had overnight success, but then, so I was in Chicago for nine years and eventually got into Second City and was on the main stage. And that's how I got seen for SNL. And I just encapsulated everything into a minute there, but yeah.

[21:57] Alan Seales: Oh wow. So you were, I would have assumed like based on biographies and, you know, Wikipedia and stuff, they're like, oh, you just moved to Second City. And then all of a sudden you were on, or you moved to Chicago and then you all of a sudden you're part of Second City, but you were there in Chicago for nine years.

[22:13] Rachel Dratch: No, as a matter of fact, I moved to Chicago and I had so many, like, I know all the actors you interview must have their, you know, whatever, rejection stories and all that. But I definitely had, like, I'd never just like, waltzed in and was picked for this. Like, it was always my second try or even third try, but yeah, I moved to Chicago with a friend of mine from our improv group. And then like, we auditioned for the classes and, which I heard like, oh, everyone gets into the classes. And I didn't get into the classes. Like we just moved, I didn't get into class. And I was like, oh, what have I done? Like pack up everything. But I stayed. And then it took a while, like, then I got into classes and then like, I auditioned to the touring company and then get in and then I got, but I was doing other things, you know, like little plays and stuff like that.

And then, yeah, so even SNL, I auditioned, didn't get in the first time, got to audition again a year later, got it that time. So yeah, I was in Chicago for three years and then I got into the touring company and then you kind of tour for a few years and then you move on up the ranks. So, but Chicago was so fun because it was this whole, like, I mean, improv was my world there and comedy and like everyone who moved there back then, like everyone had moved there from all over at age whatever, 22, 23 to do this thing. And so there was this giant, everyone, like many, many people are in comedy now that were there then. So it's kind of cool that, you know, cause you hear how it's so hard to become an actor, but like most people who were there who stuck with it are either writing or they're in comedy. And I mean, I was there with a lot of great people. So, um, yeah.

[23:58] Rachel Dratch: Well, give me some, give me some name drops. Who was your-

[24:02] Rachel Dratch: Oh my gosh, here's my name drops. So, well, first of all, when I was in the touring company, um, the main stage was, oh, well, Amy Sedaris, Stephen Colbert and Steve Carell were all in the same cast on the main stage. Uh, Jackie Hoffman was there and I was, I was there with Susie Nakamura who's currently in my cast right now, which is super cool. And, um, you know, like Nia Vardalos, Jack McBrayer, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, uh, Matt Walsh was, you know, starting UCB with her and, um, oh my gosh, so many people. I can't even, I can't think. Oh, Adam McKay was in my first cast. He's of course like now Oscar winner. And, um, so yeah, and that's just the people I can think of in this-

[24:37] Rachel Dratch: So, you know, you're around all these really funny, really talented people, so it just upped everyone's game. Everyone rose to where everyone else was. And the other great thing about that was that when one person, you know, broke through, they'd bring other people with them. So it was sort of this really cool connection that wasn't really intentional networking, but it just sort of happened that way, you know? Well, you cast your friends, you cast the people you want to work with. And so, yeah, again, if you have the ability to write or to produce or to create, then you're like, like you said, Strowman had you literally in mind for this and put you in, and then you're the perfect person, right? So now you've originated a role in Broadway, which is freaking awesome. And I guess, going back to college for a second, what was your major in college?

[25:22] Rachel Dratch: I majored in drama and minored in psychology, because I also wanted to be a therapist, which I always talk about, because that was a real interest of mine. So then I wasn't sure which one I wanted to do. Like I said, I wanted to try the acting thing, so I could just know I tried it. But I was also genuinely interested in psych, which I still am. And I still get into all that stuff. But yeah, so then, you know, that was it. And I did a semester at the O'Neill, whatever they call it now. I don't even know. Now, they called it NTI, but the Eugene O'Neill Center, where it was just like, you just do theater. Actually, that was kind of pivotal for me, because no one else there, there were like 40 students there, and no one else there was like, a lot of people there wanted to be an actor professionally, but no one else there was that into comedy, like I was.

So then I was looking around like, oh, wait, like, I'm the only person here that seems like they're really into comedy. So maybe I should try this too, because all these people are going to go for it, you know? So that was also sort of factored in.

[26:26] Alan Seales: We're going to take a short break. Stay tuned for more of the episode.

[26:41] Rachel Dratch: I got a psych minor too, by the way, so twinsies.

[26:43] Alan Seales: Oh, okay.

[26:44] Rachel Dratch: But for a much different reason, I was going to go into, I originally thought I was going to do artificial intelligence in Japan. So I want to understand the psyche of the brain. That's a whole other session.

[26:55] Alan Seales: Yeah, it didn't go there. Let's talk about that. It's like, you could be a shrink too, like a bunch of problems in form of a joke. I forgot my question. Oh, so when did you realize then that, I guess, acting was for you and make the leap to move to Chicago slash the people who you were with are trying to be serious actors. In your mind, is there a difference between acting and being a comedian?

[27:25] Rachel Dratch: Well, I don't know. I just met the people that I was around for that particular thing. Like, no one seemed that into comedy as I was. So I was into sort of comic acting. I didn't really know. Improv, you know, SNL, like whatever. You know, when you're just starting out, you're like, I don't know what exactly, but I know I like comedy. Oops, there's a siren going by. This is gritty New York, folks. Let's see. And then, yeah, I mean, I was mainly into improv when I moved to Chicago. Like, my goal was Second City when I moved to Chicago. So, like I said, I was just sort of, I'll see how it goes. And then what I found is like, I mean, I'd make, you know, that you hear people like the five-year plan, if I haven't made it this far in three or whatever years.

I don't know anyone that did that. It was more like, did I make a little bit of progress each year, you know? And then if I did, then that sort of like hooked you in for another year, you know? So that's how it sort of works for me.

[28:30] Alan Seales: Well, that works. You, what is it? Andre De Shields said, the top of one mountain is the bottom of the next, right?

[28:34] Rachel Dratch: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[28:36] Alan Seales: Yeah, he said in his Tony speech. And so you get, look, remember to turn around and look back and see where you've come from and see the journey you've just been on. But yeah, there's always more to go. There's always more to do. And so now, at your current age, you are making, you're making your Broadway debut. And you've been in the business for decades. Is there, do you want to continue to do stage? Do you want to do, do you ever want to do drama on stage or in movies? Or like, what is, tell me about your five-year plan.

[29:05] Rachel Dratch: I don't have a five-year plan. I would never say never, but I would like to do more stage. Yeah. Because this, this whole, the POTUS experience has reminded me that like, this is where sort of my, my joy vibes are, is like just you in the live audience, you know? Like that's what it was like in Second City. And I don't know. I think that's my sort of wheelhouse. I don't know. You know, doing movies is like, oh my God, I'm in a movie. That's so cool. You know, but like when you're doing the movie, you're doing the same scene, you know, 30 times and there's no live factor there. And so this is just, I don't know, it's just like, for lack of a better word, a lot of fun.

[29:49] Alan Seales: Are you able to not improvise when you're doing movies?

[29:52] Rachel Dratch: What do you mean?

[29:55] Alan Seales: Like when I, whenever I'm in the limited experience I've had in front of a camera, I get bored doing the same thing over and over and over.

[30:04] Rachel Dratch: Okay. Actually, I don't really like improvising on film because usually I think the script is good and the person has worked really hard on the script and getting language just right. So like, if you have another idea for a joke you want to throw in, yeah, that's one thing. But if people are like, and this one, this take just makes it up. I'm like, no, like, I just, it's weird, but it's not really my thing to just like, I'm going to come up with a joke on the spot that's better than what the person, you know, worked really hard. So I like it when a director is like, do whatever you want in this take sometimes. But in terms of script, I kind of like to follow it.

[30:39] Alan Seales: Well, do you ever have the urge to say something completely different?

[30:43] Rachel Dratch: No.

[30:45] Alan Seales: Really? Like I'm always, I always want to just like take it and just tweak the language a little bit to do what, I don't know, just do a little bit something different.

[30:53] Rachel Dratch: Not unless like there's a part that feels oogie. Like if there's one section that feels like, oh, I don't know if I'd say this. Like, can I put it like that? And then they're usually cool about it. Because I don't really do that that often. But I mean, I don't know, maybe it's a testament to some good scripts I've come across. I don't really know.

[31:10] Rachel Dratch: Maybe I've just done bad scripts. Or maybe I just, maybe I show up and I'm like, I'll do whatever you say. You know, like, I don't want to make waves. But no, I don't do a lot of improvising on film.

[31:22] Rachel Dratch: Well, actually, you know what? Now that I've said that, and now that you've given your response, it occurs to me that some of the biggest joy that I've had on stage is when I do get to say the exact same thing over and over again, but finding how to say it differently. You know, you're saying it differently with your body. Like you said, you're doing different body language, or your inflection is different, or your pacing is different. So there we go.

[31:46] Alan Seales: All right. So I completely just negated my own argument. Glad we had this talk.

[31:53] Rachel Dratch: And that's all the time we have. So then you grew up in this region, right? The Northeast?

[32:00] Rachel Dratch: Yeah, I grew up in Massachusetts.

[32:03] Alan Seales: Yeah, Massachusetts. So then family was not into show business at all, correct?

[32:09] Rachel Dratch: Well, no, but my dad, like I said, he was very funny. And he did community theater, and he did acting in college. He had the bug, but he wasn't a professional. But he was a person who would make up songs in the car, who did impressions. Like, oh, my gosh, I ran into a classmate. One of my friend's dads was in high school with him, and he said to me, like, your dad used to imitate all the teachers as soon as they left the room. Like that kind of thing. So whatever that is, I had that.

[32:40] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[32:41] Rachel Dratch: Oh, that's so awesome. Yeah, I guess genetics, the comedy gene definitely runs in the family. And so I assume then, too, that your parents had an idea of the impact, I guess the importance of making it into Second City, and then making it onto SNL, and then continuing down that path. Because if I tell my parents, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this thing. And they're like, awesome. They have no clue what anything – they're so out of touch, right? I mean, no offense to my parents who are probably listening now, but they've been out of touch for a little bit for a while.

[33:18] Alan Seales: Okay. So your parents, at the time when you were hitting these milestones in your career, were they like, oh, good job, now go clean your room? Metaphorically?

[33:27] Rachel Dratch: Oh, no, no. Did they celebrate?

[33:29] Rachel Dratch: Oh, yeah, they were really excited for me and all these things. I mean, I think when I first was moving out to Chicago, they were probably like, okay, whatever makes you happy. But they were probably kind of nervous for disappointment or whatever. But no, they fully appreciated all the little successes along the way, or big ones or whatever, yeah. I mean, being able to see your child or children on TV and not as a mugshot, I think is pretty cool.

[33:57] Alan Seales: There you go.

[33:58] Rachel Dratch: Right? Yeah. So it was like bragging rights and proud parents and whatnot. So I can see that. I can see at least from an influence standpoint that it is something that probably hit home very easily for them.

[34:15] Rachel Dratch: Oh, yeah. But, yeah, improv, there's so much bad improv out there that the good improv, when you get into good improv, it's so hard. I'm sure they have their share of bad improv. But, you know, SNL is such an iconic thing that that's sort of, you know, you tell your friends your kid made SNL, everyone knows what that is. And it's pretty exciting, yeah.

[34:38] Alan Seales: Why did you decide to leave?

[34:41] Rachel Dratch: Well, I had been there seven years, and back then it was sort of different. Like now people stay, you know, kind of as long as they want. But back then it was more like seven years and you go sort of thing. So it was just like a different vibe around then.

[34:58] Alan Seales: So, yeah.

[35:01] Rachel Dratch: Is it like a family with Lauren? Do you call up Papa Lauren and just shoot the shit with him all the time?

[35:07] Rachel Dratch: I mean, I wouldn't say that, but whenever I'm back, they call me back there to do Amy Klobuchar and various, like I've gotten to go back for a lot of whatever, like the Mother's Day special or, I don't know, they've called me back a bunch, which is always really fun. And it's like, you know, when you go back, it's so fun because you don't have to write anything and you're not like, oh, I hope my sketch makes it because you're just there and it's all the good stuff about the place. So, yeah, it's been really fun. Of course, Lauren, you know, he's like, I don't know, I owe my career to Lauren, you know, so I'll be forever grateful to him. But I mean, I'm not like calling him up to shoot the shit, no. But I'm always happy to see him.

[35:53] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, it seems like the experience, I mean, I say this with Broadway shows and going through the rehearsals and text, and it's a form, like you bond so much emotionally, and I say it's a form of trauma and not in a bad way, but like doing a comedy is hard. It takes a lot of serious, serious work to do a comedy because you have to work so much at it and make it right, and, you know, finding the moments and whatnot, and you're still finding the moments after you open because even though the script is locked, you're doing different things different ways, right? And the added pressure of live TV internationally, well, it's live TV, but like now with the internet, everything goes out internationally almost immediately, right? So, and I talked with, when I was talking with Bill Hader once, he said that he had, he would legit have panic attacks before every single live show because of the pressure of all of that. And I feel like with you coming in,

[36:56] Rachel Dratch: And going back again to the pressure and the trust you have to place in your fellow castmates going out and doing improv when you don't have lines. You know, script aside, when you're going out and trusting your scene partners to lift you up and for you to lift them up, I feel like that bonds people in a way that is incomparable to many other situations. So, like, these are lifelong friendships that you're always going to have. Yeah, I mean, there's that. And then just also coming up in this, like, SNL has its share of, like, triumphs and tribulations. You know, like, it's like your dream job. And it's also like a lot of pressure. And it's this great ensemble and, you know, really good friends.

Like you said, like only someone that's been there knows what it's like. And so it is very bonding. And same with just, but I mean, I feel like you kind of say that about most plays, like something about theater just is like, I mean, I did this play 10 years ago called Minsky's, this musical that we did out at the Amundsen in L.A. with a possible Broadway move, but it never happened. But like, I still have really good friends from that show. Like, there's something about, I don't know, just your theater buddies, you know, and the laughs you have. Or like when you're out there and the audience isn't responding at all and you're just looking into each other's eyes. Like, oh, my God, like there's something oddly thrilling about that.

I mean, you know, or being up on stage at an improv show where everything's dying. It's just like it's like riding a roller coaster while you're in it. It's not that fun. But looking back, I can I can laugh at the worst shows we've ever had. So, yeah, it's sort of like this bondage for fraternity or sorority or whatever the heck is now an OK thing to say. A group of like-minded individuals.

[38:48] Rachel Dratch: In your memoir, so it came out in 2012. Full title is Girl Walks Into a Bar, Comedy Calamities, Dating Disasters and Midlife Miracle, which covers a bunch of things, two of which that I wanted to call out. One of which is that I didn't know this until recently, that you were the original role that Jane Krakowski ended up having permanently on 30 Rock. That is true, yeah. And then unexpectedly got pregnant at 44. Yeah. That's the midlife miracle. 43 in eight months, but OK. 43 in 10 months. No, I'm just joking around. Yes, I had my child at 44. Yes. So if we can, can you talk about the experience with 30 Rock, though? Because you talked about the family and coming up with Tina and whatnot. I mean, I kind of like I'm not saying this because I don't want to talk about, but I've talked about this like so many times that now I feel like I could say like in three sentences, like, yeah, I was cast in this part and then it got recast.

And that's what happened. I don't know. I'm just like so like it's like now how many years ago? I don't know. So I don't know that I have anything like new to say other than like, you know, in showbiz that this happens to everybody and it wasn't like that crazy for me. But the crazy part was it got a lot of media attention at the time. And so coming out of SNL with all this like kind of negative spin on it, whereas I didn't even like basically I got shifted off that to do these little parts. And I was totally fine with that. Like, I could see even, you know, I see like the sense of that, I guess. But I just got a lot of like blow up media crap. And it was sort of my first and thankfully only intro to, I don't know, just like being asked this question this many years later. Like, because it's just people wanted to like find a scandal in it, I guess.

[40:49] Rachel Dratch: Oh, no, no. I didn't bring it up for scandal reasons. Back then. No, I don't mean you. I just mean like back then it was like a so I've just answered this so many times. But I brought it up. I brought it up because you had mentioned that happened. And you had mentioned you're doing the show in L.A. that didn't it was talking about Broadway and didn't come to Broadway. And there are so many people of named notoriety, yourself included, who are in these great things that everyone like you can put a great actor in a crappy script and it's still a crappy script. And sometimes things just don't work. And the point I'm trying to make is that throughout the career, like you said, it's riding a roller coaster. There's the micro riding the roller coaster of doing individual shows. And there's the macro riding the roller coaster of the whole business of show business, because you never know when a global pandemic is going to come and just shut your ass down.

[41:37] Rachel Dratch: Exactly. What are you going to do after that? And so there is success and then there's failure and it goes up and down and up and down. And again, case in point, you went to Chicago and was there for nine years before getting into Second City. And I will say, I was going to say also, you're reminding me because I don't like live in that emotional spot anymore. But you're reminding me that like after SNL, things really were not happening for me at all. And it's like, so I kind of felt like, oh, I guess I'm not going to do much. I sort of thought, you know, should I go become the therapist? Like I kind of forgot about this part where like for I guess like four years after SNL, the things sort of died down a whole bunch.

But then I had the surprise of a baby. It was one of those like after Second City, things also kind of died down a lot. And then I just sort of learned over time to if you're in a dip, don't like live in the dip. Like just know there's going to be some else. So have fun when you're in the dip. Like do other things that you don't have time for when things are slow because something else will probably be coming along. So it was a good kind of lesson for me, actually.

[42:53] Alan Seales: Yeah. Well, that's the therapist aspect of you, right? You got to look for.

[42:56] Rachel Dratch: I guess so. But it took me a while to learn that.

[42:58] Alan Seales: I love that what therapists are required to be in therapy themselves, I think.

[43:05] Rachel Dratch: I know my therapist is.

[43:07] Alan Seales: Probably. My therapist is.

[43:09] Rachel Dratch: Yeah. She tells me about her therapy.

[43:11] Alan Seales: Well, don't tell me specifics. But yeah, I think there are a lot. Anyway, so let's wrap up the episode here with three closing questions that I ask everybody. The first one is very simply is what motivates you?

[43:22] Rachel Dratch: Oh. Oh, my God. I'm so bad at these. I'm so bad at these rapid fires. What motivates me? Like. Laughing. How did somebody else answer this? I want to copy them. Oh, God. That's been. Let's see. People have said money. People have said family. Oh, geez. I would say for you probably laughter and being lifted up. But yeah, I'm not gonna put words in your mouth. Yeah, laughter. I mean, I do really like being a mom. So that's been a fun next chapter. So I find hanging out with my kid very motivating. Oh, it's the best and the worst all at once. That's my answer.

[44:05] Alan Seales: Yeah. All right. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[44:12] Rachel Dratch: Ooh. Well, I mean, two versions. One is the more practical version where I say like whenever anyone asks me like about getting a comedy, I always say to take classes because it is a sort of a natural community that you get to hook into. And that's how like everyone that I know that is doing this started on classes. So even if you think you have nothing left to learn, which, of course, we probably know isn't true. But it's not just for what you'll learn there, but who you'll meet there and the community you'll get involved in. And then the other advice I would say is what I just said that I learned myself is like, you know, don't take like if your friend gets something great, that doesn't mean you're not going to get something great. Or like it's the long road or like, you know, if you're having a dip, it doesn't mean it's going to last forever.

[45:00] Rachel Dratch: I like that you said that about the friend because if you help the friend to get something great, then most likely they're going to help you get something great right after that along with them. I know like when I was really young, like, you know, it's the first person that got a job, a real job. You're like, oh, well, wait, since I didn't get a job, I guess I'm not good at this. And so you can kind of like crash your whole confidence out by like when it's not happening for me right now. And that means it's like a sign that I'm not talented, but, you know, just it's a long game. So and then and then also, like you said, like support among the community is huge. So, you know, your friend getting something means like you might be recommended later on or whatever, that kind of thing.

[45:48] Rachel Dratch: Or they break you apart.

[45:50] Alan Seales: There you go. Yeah. Oh, yeah. OK. So the final question is the hardest one. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[46:00] Rachel Dratch: Like a theater show we're talking?

[46:03] Alan Seales: Well, I say any show, but yeah, we'll go theater.

[46:06] Rachel Dratch: Oh, sheesh. I'm going to choke on this. What if I have no answer? You can do TV. Can we edit?

[46:18] Alan Seales: We are live broadcasting.

[46:20] Rachel Dratch: Oh, no. OK, there's two things that came to mind. There's two things that popped into my head. Two movies. Are they allowed to be movies?

[46:29] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah.

[46:30] Rachel Dratch: OK. The first thing I thought of was Spinal Tap. Just popped into my head. But this is a theater show. So instead, I'm going to say Brigadoon. No, I'm just kidding. I've never seen that. A play? It could be a musical. A musical? Anything. It could be a TV show if you like TV.

[46:56] Rachel Dratch: I'm choking so hard on this. I'm going to say Music Man. And then I'll go to hell singing 76 trombones a thousand times over. The third time, I'll be like, why did I pick Music Man? No, I was in Music Man in high school, so I know all the music. So maybe that's why it jumped into my mind. You're not pleased with that answer.

[47:24] Alan Seales: No, no, no, no. I'm saying Music Man. That was an affectionate sigh. Because Music Man is one of the three shows I grew up as a kid watching on repeat on VHS. That's what got me into theater. So I have a very strong fondness for Music Man. That's what's like, oh, that's my love. My love for Music Man.

[47:40] Rachel Dratch: Okay, okay. I mean, like I said, I'd probably regret it after the third round of Wells Fargo Wagon. And then I'd say, why didn't I pick Midsummer Night's Dream, which has a lot of depth to it? I'm sure I could get something different out of every single time. I've said, it's interesting. Before the pandemic, the most common answer was Sweeney Todd.

[48:04] Alan Seales: Oh, okay.

[48:06] Rachel Dratch: And then after the pandemic, no one said it.

[48:09] Alan Seales: They don't want to go down that.

[48:11] Rachel Dratch: They don't want that. Depression. That nasty eating people. Anyway, can we find you online anywhere? Do you do social media?

[48:17] Rachel Dratch: I'm on Twitter and Instagram. Yeah.

[48:19] Alan Seales: That's where I am.

[48:24] Rachel Dratch: Oh, sorry. I'm at The Real Dratch on Twitter. And on Instagram, I'm at Ray Dratch. R-A-E Dratch. Because I apparently couldn't figure out how to make them both the same thing for ease. But yeah, that's where I am.

[48:40] Alan Seales: All right. So you can get more of me at TheTheatrePodcast.com. I'm on Theatre and Instagram. They're the same thing. Theatre underscore podcast. I'm on TikTok now at The Theatre Podcast. I don't know what I'm doing on TikTok. It's horrible. But go check it out. This is edited by well-rounded Hoodlum Productions. Jukebox the Ghost gave us our intro and outro music. And Rachel Dratch, thank you so much. I have been laughing so hard and enjoyed talking to you so much.

[49:02] Rachel Dratch: Thank you.

[49:03] Alan Seales: Thanks very much.