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[0:00] Alan Seales: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with the industry's biggest names. I'm your host, Alan Seales, and this is another episode I'm bringing back to you from the vault, as I'm calling it. This is with Tony winner, Bonnie Milligan, who just won a few weeks ago for her role as Aunt Deb in Kimberly Akimbo. And this is originally Episode 5. We recorded on November 9th. It was launched on November 19th, 2018. This is such an oldie, and I absolutely love it. Bonnie has continued to grow, of course. We were originally recording for Head Over Heels, so the majority of the conversation is about that. Enjoy this episode. Bonnie is a gem. She is Broadway's national treasure. So now, everybody, please, again, enjoy this episode with Bonnie Milligan. Here you go. One, two, three.

[1:08] Alan Seales: Welcome to the Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest talents. I'm your host, Alan Seales. Today, we have with us Bonnie Milligan, otherwise known across the internet as Belting Bonnie.

[1:21] Bonnie Milligan: Hello.

[1:22] Alan Seales: Yes. Your credits include the first national tour of Kinky Boots. You were the original Pat in that production. You've been off-Broadway all over the place. God bless you, Mr. Rosewater, gigantic Jasper in the Dead Land. On television, you even have a recurring role of Caitlin on TBS's Search Party, and then Happy on the SyFy network. And now you are, after originating the role at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, you've made your Broadway debut as the amazing Pamela in Head Over Heels.

[1:54] Bonnie Milligan: Yes.

[1:55] Alan Seales: Thank you for being here with me today.

[1:56] Bonnie Milligan: Thank you for having me.

[1:58] Alan Seales: As I'll start how I start normally with everyone here, tell me about your childhood. Tell me about how you grew up. Where did you come from?

[2:06] Bonnie Milligan: I grew up in central Illinois.

[2:08] Alan Seales: In Inouye.

[2:10] Bonnie Milligan: In Inouye, exactly. Decatur, Illinois, to be exact.

[2:15] Alan Seales: I've been to Decatur.

[2:16] Bonnie Milligan: You have?

[2:17] Alan Seales: I performed, sorry to interrupt, I performed at Bear Creek. Was it Bear Creek Dinner Theatre?

[2:23] Bonnie Milligan: It was in...

[2:24] Alan Seales: Oh, wow, I don't know.

[2:25] Bonnie Milligan: Bryant, Indiana?

[2:28] Alan Seales: Indiana.

[2:30] Bonnie Milligan: It's right near Decatur. It was near Decatur.

[2:32] Alan Seales: All right, fair.

[2:33] Bonnie Milligan: I don't know. I need to fact check myself.

[2:35] Alan Seales: We can google it.

[2:36] Bonnie Milligan: It's been a long time. Anyway, go ahead.

[2:38] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah, so I grew up just kind of in the farmland, you know, of America, the Great Plains. And I always was singing. My dad was a preacher, and I grew up in church kind of always singing as soon as I could talk. And when I was 10 years old, I got the lead in a school play.

[3:03] Alan Seales: And then I decided, oh, I'm going to be an actress.

[3:05] Bonnie Milligan: What was the play?

[3:06] Bonnie Milligan: It was, I can't remember the title of it, but I was an elf that saved Christmas. Like something held up Santa. And it was one of those, it was a really small school, so there would be like 25 to 30 kids in a grade. So all of the grade school, like K through four, would sit in bleachers on the side in the school gym. And the fifth graders were on stage being the actors. But all of the songs were sung by like the rest of the school. It was really, you know, really top notch art.

[3:40] Alan Seales: You got the acting bug back then.

[3:42] Bonnie Milligan: When I did, I was like, oh, this is what I'm going to do. And I have all these old journals from when I was a kid that are so dramatic, that are like, I'm trapped in central Illinois. And, you know, my life is so pathetically dry, and I want to be an actress. And just like so dramatic.

[4:02] Alan Seales: You know, you need to write your first cabaret show based on those journal entries.

[4:06] Bonnie Milligan: Well, I do have a show coming up at Birdland, actually, November 26th.

[4:10] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah?

[4:11] Bonnie Milligan: I'll be doing a show, yeah.

[4:13] Alan Seales: Well, depending on when this airs, it might have just happened. Actually, well, let's try to get this out before that.

[4:16] Bonnie Milligan: All right, great.

[4:18] Alan Seales: We'll get this out before. So November 26th, everyone go see Bonnie at the Birdland Jazz Club. It's on 45th, right?

[4:25] Bonnie Milligan: 44th.

[4:26] Alan Seales: 44th, yeah. And then, so that was, did you sing as the elf? When did you know you could start to sing?

[4:31] Bonnie Milligan: Well, I think, well, I always sang. So it was one of those that my parents met when my dad was the new lead singer of the Southern Gospel Group my mom was the pianist for. So they were always singing. And we would do like specials in church, and I loved it right away. I have an older brother, and he has a great voice, but he would always be like, meh, over it. And I'd be like, great, give me his verses. So I, it was something that I kind of always did and always loved doing was singing.

[5:03] Alan Seales: And then the roles that you've taken from what I've seen, they always had to have, or they've had some sort of comedic element to them. Where did you get that part of your personality from?

[5:16] Bonnie Milligan: I don't know. You know, my dad's a funny guy. He was always kind of, he always was joking. And, you know, he's an entertainer. And so I think that's where I kind of first learned comedy and making people laugh. And then, you know, people liking you, when I kind of got like, I was around 10, when I kind of, I don't know if it's like baby weight that all of a sudden hits at 10. But I got a little bit chubbier, and I didn't want to be made fun of. So I thought, I'll be the funny kid. And then people will like me and I'll be popular that way. And so I kind of did self-deprecating humor at like 10 years old. But I did and then I became popular because I was fun to be around. So it started then, for sure, when I was like a kid kid.

And then, you know, the people that I look up to are the strong character actress comedians, you know, like Carol Burnett, Madeline Kahn. I love, you know, just strong, funny, hilarious women and in musical theater world, you know, like Faith Prince, Beth Leavel, Deb Monk, all the good ones.

[6:29] Alan Seales: Yes. I enjoy. I actually saw Beth in The Prom very recently. Just blew me away. You need to go see that. Maybe someone can help you out with that. But I want to touch back on, you said you're doing self-deprecating humor. And then, you know, I want to touch on this later on in the podcast here as well about giving representation to plus size women. But your view of yourself, did that change on your own? Or did it change as a response to how people were? Were they treating you any differently?

[7:05] Bonnie Milligan: I don't think so. I mean, again, I came from a really small town, you know, so it wasn't a lot of people. The town didn't have much money. We certainly didn't have much money. I grew up in like a double wide trailer. And so I always knew that there were things that, you know, I hated the trailer. I hated that. But it was something that I was always provided for. Nobody kind of, there was like one time I had a friend kind of jab at me for it. Like, they wanted to come to my place and like, well, you're the only one that has a license plate on your house. And always being kind of aware of it. But so there were certain things like that. And my parents both struggled with their weight. So I remember thinking that was sort of my lot in life.

And I even look back at pictures of myself and I wasn't even all that big, especially through the years of when I hit high school. And I think you're so beautiful. And I did not see it because I wore clothes that had two numbers, not one and everybody else had one number. So it was that always making sure that I was in charge of my story. And if it was going to be funny, then I was going to make it funny. And you're not laughing at me, you're laughing with me, kind of a thing. And I remember, you know, even as I got older, different friends would be like, Bonnie, you're not fat. Like, what are you doing? I'm like, whatever, you know. So that was kind of that was there from the beginning and watching how my dad did that about himself and how he spoke and made jokes about being the big guy and then everybody thinking it was so hilarious and so fun. So that's where I kind of saw it early.

[8:43] Alan Seales: And then as a preacher, though, did he incorporate that into his, into what he was saying?

[8:49] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah, I think it would be like, you know, he always had jokes. He's a really funny guy. So his messages, that's where a lot of people actually liked. He kind of traveled around and he would guest do sermons and stuff. And people always liked having him because he was really funny and relatable and really kind of down to earth guy that loved everybody he ever met and, you know, was just a nice guy. So I kind of took that example of also being kind about everybody around me and embracing everybody around me and trying to make everyone feel comfortable.

[9:29] Alan Seales: So you were a 10 year old elf and you said, I want to be on Broadway. And did everybody say, all right, let's help you? Or were you like, were they saying, there's no way you're going to get there?

[9:46] Bonnie Milligan: Well, like it started off. So then once I decided this is what I'm going to do, I started thinking about what can I do locally? I don't know where all of this came from. But I would remember looking in the paper and being like, mom, can we go to this audition? And somebody, I don't remember how I got involved with this summer program that Decatur did called the Best of Summer Stock, which B-O-S-S, BOSS, and they're Milliken University is in town and they have, it's kind of like a show choir, they call the park singers. And they ran this program where it was just essentially musical theater camp for kids, but kind of show choir camp in a different way. And so I started doing that. And, you know, my grandma paid for me to go and she would take me every day.

And, um, it was really great. And that's how I kind of also got involved in like the local children's theater there. And, um, and then, you know, they got me into musical theater camp for when I got a little bit older. Um, and then as soon as I could drive, I was doing like community theater productions as well as my school production. So I was like always doing a show. And I think, you know, my, my mom especially was always just somebody that was like, just said yes. And I was like, okay. And never said that's not going to happen for you. Um, was just kind of let me have like the big dreams and let me do all the things along the way, which was really great. And, you know, especially come from a really small town, everybody's like, well, you're really talented and kind of, I think had hopes for it, but nobody said that's not going to happen for you.

Wasn't really until later in college when it got a little bit like some voices of it's going to be hard for you because of your weight and you might not make it that, but it took a while for me to kind of hear that.

[11:40] Alan Seales: You said in college, people started, I guess trying to reality check you for a lack of, of, of a better phrase. Um, did that dissuade you at all? Or were you like, screw you guys, I'm going to do this anyway?

[11:55] Bonnie Milligan: You know, I, there was one, um, incident that happened. It was with, um, somebody that just meant a lot to me. And it was like over drinks that had said, um, it's not going to happen for you. And this person is who I really, really looked up to. And so I was devastated.

[12:13] Bonnie Milligan: And the next day, they were very like, I'm so sorry, it was, it was the vodka. And I don't think that. But it was like, what? Why would you say that? And, you know, I, I forgave her. And I thought, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it wasn't honestly until years later, I really realized what those words had planted in me this like, idea of that was a premonition, like a truth, rather than like an opinion of somebody that I, you're like, okay, whatever, I'm different. And it's going to be different for me, that someone that I trusted with everything that said, and cassette it with I love you. And this is why I'm telling you this, of fear. And of course, there's all the insecurities that you have inside yourself anyway, that that fed into that, I think kind of snowballed.

That first when I moved to New York, you know, I didn't really go for things like, I think, maybe I would have. And who knows, like, maybe I always would have been a little scared and not, you know, gone for it as much because I didn't have a leg up like a lot of these college programs to you have a showcase in New York. And that means agents and people come and see you. And we didn't have one of those. Because mine was a liberal arts degree from Ohio State that focused in acting, not musical theater. And I loved my program. I begrudgingly went in the first place because they gave me all my money. And again, I didn't have any money growing up. So it was one of those things that wasn't honestly, it was like four or five years after I moved to the city that I realized, oh my gosh, like, I haven't been doing this.

And I didn't realize what those words really did mean to me that I and that was kind of a devastating thing to realize what I had allowed to permeate my like, self worth and confidence. So I kind of got into therapy to start thinking, like, how can I find that girl again that loved herself and believed in herself? Or did that part of me die? Or can I find it again? Or just find a way to move on from it? And I can't recommend therapy enough. Because it's just, I mean, it's so helpful. It is. Yeah. Life's hard. So you know, especially New York life. Oh, my Lord. Yeah. So you said you were here for four or five years before. And so when did you move to New York, though?

[14:40] Bonnie Milligan: 2008.

[14:41] Alan Seales: 2008. Okay. So that was 10 years ago. Yeah. And then when did I guess when did the first workshop for Head Over Heels kind of fall your way?

[14:49] Bonnie Milligan: That came four years ago. So that came in 2014. We did the very first reading of Head Over Heels.

[14:54] Alan Seales: It was here in the city?

[14:55] Bonnie Milligan: It was. Yeah. And then, okay, so you did the reading here. And then it got success at an Oregon festival?

[15:02] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah. So then they did the world premiere a year later, in 2015, at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. And so I had after the reading, I booked the first national tour of Kinky Boots. So I left town and did the Kinky Boots national tour, when I heard it's going to happen at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. And you're like, okay. So I put myself on tape because you it's a rep company, which you just like, you know, you have you don't just do one show, you do at least two, if not three. So I had to audition. And, and then I got the part. So I left the Kinky Boots tour at the very end of March, and I went out to Oregon. And I was out there for six and a half months where we developed and worked on it and performed it for like four and a half months on rep.

And I guess I'm putting this into perspective for people who may not know about the show or might have seen it. A show that is on Broadway that has so much unique representation that we haven't seen before, premiering at a Shakespearean festival, because it's a jukebox musical of Go-Go's music. Why is it? Why did it work for Shakespeare? I guess is what?

[16:31] Bonnie Milligan: Our book is a lot of it's an iambic pentameter. It's mostly a free verse or iambic pentameter. So it sounds a little bit more what you would think of Shakespearean. And there's many Shakespearean tropes, you know, it feels like one of his comedies. You know, Midsommar, where you have people in the forest meeting lovers and mistaken identity and kind of magic and all that. It's Elizabethan costumes.

[16:57] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah. So it's it's kind of a Elizabethan sex romp mash up with a book. It's based on Sir Philip Sidney's Arcadia, which was in the 1580s. So you have a book from the 1580s with the music of the 1980s. And somehow it works.

[17:15] Bonnie Milligan: Well, speaking of sex romp, I want to sidetrack real quick and talk about Cuff Me. The Fifty Shades of Grey musical parody off Broadway in 2013. I don't know if I had the, I call it the pleasure of seeing it. Was it? Did you enjoy that? What was that?

[17:34] Bonnie Milligan: It was my off Broadway debut. It was the first thing that I had done off Broadway. And it was so fun and ridiculous. There were four of us actors. And, you know, two people that played Anna and Christian and then the other two of us that were kind of the clowns that we did. We were two New Jersey housewives, like we're reading a book at a nail salon. It was an old woman trying to buy like supplies and, you know, I was her inner monologue and her roommate. And it was one of those crazy, like 80 minute shows where you just go, go, go. And they parodied pop songs. And I would have like four costumes on at one point because I was in a, you know, onesie with things underneath and things underneath to make a quick change.

And it was just one of those shows where it was so fast and furious. And they allowed a lot of kind of improv. And I love that improv nature. I'm just really having fun. And I did it with really funny people. So we would have a lot of like the middle aged Jersey ladies coming in. That was really our crowd. And we did it at the Actors Temple, which is funny because it's an active temple, doing Fifty Shades of Grey.

[18:49] Alan Seales: Cuff me. Oh, like a religious temple?

[18:56] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. That also doubles as like a theater. Would that, would you consider that your weirdest job?

[19:03] Bonnie Milligan: I mean, that was a pretty crazy job. Yeah. I think that was, yeah. And we toured it a couple of times. We went to Texas. We went to Florida. Texas. We went to Boston. Yeah. For like a week, you would just go and do like a week of shows. And it was really funny and really crazy. We were at like the Boston Opera House doing Cuff Me. I kid you not. I just imagine these pent up housewives that are just coming in and being like, don't tell my husband that I'm here, but I'm really enjoying this. A lot of bachelorette parties. It was a good time.

[19:36] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure. That's incredible. So getting back on track. October 21st, 2018, Head Over Heels was the 100th post-opening performance. And I found a quote online of something else you said once you said, many scoffed that we wouldn't even make it to here. Proud to be taking down the patriarchy, rejecting the binary, exploring the gender spectrum, representing so many and celebrating queerness on Broadway. What does all of this, like all of this behind the show, it's so unique. It's so representative of things we don't see. What does this all mean to you? Like you, the person?

[20:08] Bonnie Milligan: I think it feels like an important responsibility to show people themselves that have never seen themselves that are, especially in this world right now with this administration. There are so many attacks, especially on the LGBTQIA community. And it's devastating. And it's so hard. And I meet so many people at the stage tour that are especially young queer kids and non-binary kids that are just like sobbing saying, I never thought I would hear they pronouns like in a Broadway show. And what we're doing is celebrating queerness and celebrating finding your true authentic self and identity and embracing it and embracing acceptance for other people. And I think it's a message we need right now in this world that day by day feels scarier and harder to think, how are people letting this happen?

And so to feel like we're on stage showing the cis white hetero man be taught a lesson by a powerful trans person of color saying, you need to stop doing what you're doing because you're going down a bad path of chaos and destruction. And because we're set in Elizabethan kind of a time period, it feels like a fairy tale and it feels far enough away that you can embrace this magic and this ideal situation of this man actually learning his lesson and feeling like he needs to change. And having even in that me, the big girl on stage being the beautiful princess and everyone on stage saying you are, there's this we're empowering this like body positivity, this rejecting the binary saying one of the other characters, he kind of finds gender fluidity in the show and embraces that.

And there are things that it's just like people want to get hung up on these things, especially like the president. And it's insane to me. And I love that we get to celebrate the beautiful spectrum of souls that inhabit this earth. And I think it's important. And I think it's somehow dangerous for us to go that far to embrace all these people. And it's too much. And that's what I was talking about people thinking oh, they'll never get this far because they're just they're being they're being so inclusive. And it's frustrating. And so it delights me to be able to do this eight times a week and to it feels like a responsibility to celebrate people that aren't celebrated that in fact, fear their livelihoods are at stake and at risk and to say we love you here and we celebrate you beyond allowing you to be here. You're a part of this world. And it's, you know, loved and also normalized in a way to it's not, you know, just to have it there. We love and appreciate the people that inhabit our world.

[23:27] Alan Seales: And I was just thinking about your father. He said he was very religious, obviously.

[23:33] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah.

[23:34] Alan Seales: A preacher did. Did you hear? I guess I grew up in a small town where there was a it was the middle of Bible Belt, North Carolina. There's a Southern Baptist church on every corner. And because I didn't go to church with somebody's daughter, I wasn't allowed to date them. And like everybody different was just wrong. Did you? So this is my own past coming back to Yeah, to, I guess, color my question. But did you? Does your father support any of these views? Do you guys agree? Like you see, is he open minded when he is open minded? What's, you know, the thing that is amazing that I do feel fortunate about, like with my parents and especially my mom is.

[24:26] Bonnie Milligan: I saw what, when, would you if you look at Christianity and like Jesus and stuff, to me it was very like liberal and that's what like a lot of problems he had and I'm not very religious myself. I do believe in God and all of that but I look at my mom who acts like actually a Christian and she loves everyone and you know we went to go vote Hillary together and um she actually acts with that kind open heart and that's one thing that I never growing up, I never saw my dad um rejecting anyone or putting his nose up to anyone or saying they're not right for this and that. I saw a lot of people in the church do that and that's what I have a problem with religion and the hypocrisy of so much especially right now that's happening and I don't know I can't say what my dad votes, you know what I mean, but I know how I've watched him act and I hope that you know it's hard because I think politics right now it's put a good amount of distance between me and a fair amount of family that I love dearly that I know what your heart is and I don't know he never told me who he voted for which makes me think you know but um so I can only say that I don't know it's what how you act and so much of that hypocrisy is what I have a problem with but I know that I learned compassion and love and um he embraced everyone he ever met um yeah which is how I've tried to live and again like I said if you're looking for real Christian ways that's what you're supposed to be doing is love thy neighbor right and you know people have told me when I've told them that kind of feeling of mine before they've said like you're more Buddhist than anything because yeah Buddhism is more of just you know loving loving yourself loving everyone around you and just you know being nice in general and we need a lot more of that obviously right now but you know speaking of the current uh administration um the show Head Over Heels uh you said it's evolved over the last four years so it was conceived years before our current administration yeah ever you know got to you know the president before the president we had before he announced he was going to run for president um but the message obviously was being cooked already yeah and and then our you know Trump is just bringing all this to the forefront of our of our minds to talk about but um how have you seen the show evolve over the last four years and did it change at all that you know of in response to our current administration for sure yeah sure um we the oracle was um a much more kind of separate character there was no excuse me um no name Pythio which is um what we have now there was the the oracle was not non-binary uh was not secretly um connected to other characters I don't want to ruin the plot um that wasn't there and there was um the the stuff that was there was Musa Doris does have a speech at the end about embracing both female and male and him that was always there and there used to be a section of in a meeting I have with uh my sister and everybody I I kind of called to arms about fighting for our right to marry um for turns out I'm a lesbian so uh spoiler alert spoiler um and so that was all part of it and I remember being in Oregon the day that um the same-sex marriage uh what was it the that happened not the amendment the the 2015 it was it got passed like it was all across the nation like same-sex marriage um and I remember saying uh to fight for our right to marry and we had to hold for the applause because it was just like this beautiful it had happened while here I was talking about it may 19 2014 it was officially recognized in Oregon yeah um and so I I remember being like yes and there were things that you know then a couple years down the line then um Michael Mayer became our director and brought a new team so we were kind of retooling things a couple of years ago I remember that was one of the first things he's like I want to make sure we're current I want to that the idea of like fighting for marriage feels a little dated and um I and it was he started the idea of relooking at Pythio and now we have a new adapter James Magruder and so the two of them really wanted to um change that and and bring up another kind of thing in the forefront and so that started in um I guess it would have been October ish of 2016 we did another reading and um things started to change from there and um to to the product that we have now that's that's uh that's incredible I always love hearing the origin stories of the shows themselves I mean everything's got its own origin story um and I love that uh the oracle played by Peppermint yes who uh from RuPaul's Drag Race um and then she is the first trans woman on trans openly trans woman on Broadway right the first openly trans woman to originate a principal role on Broadway yes mouthful but yeah and she is is phenomenal ev the two of you kind of uh I mean the show is getting so much attention now and both of you are getting so much attention and have you guys sort of ever taken each other aside and been like holy crap what are what are our lives now well what I love is it's both of our Broadway debuts so it's kind of it's fun to kind of be um in that together and we both believe in you know the message of the show right now and the importance of the representation that we're giving so it's it's it's fun yeah and is this is this kind of what you had expected you know the 10 year old girl you're like I'm gonna be on Broadway and I'm gonna be doing podcast interviews and I'm gonna be singing on the morning show you know no um it's definitely glorious and wonderful but it's funny that you know it's hard work and I've never been so exhausted in my life I'll tell you that much um but it's also amazing and exhilarating and sometimes you just you're like oh I'm just doing my show and other times it kind of strikes you oh I'm on Broadway right now you know and um it doesn't go past me how important like the show is but also like the step in life that here I am and it actually happened it's it's funny to like have the different people throughout my past reaching out to me now you know I just had like a high school friend come into town with um her husband and they came she came to the show and we were like she was like I always knew it was just like really sweet and cool I'm like wow you know and we'd taken a trip when we were like 16 years old to the city together and here we were she was watching me on a Broadway stage and we saw our very first Broadway show together oh really so what was your first show Rent nice yeah that was a good I think that was my first show too nice came up in high school yeah I saw Rent and I saw Aida that trip yep yeah that was the same time yeah I saw Les Miz it was Rent and Les Miz I think I saw that trip you talked earlier about um some of the feedback or the the the people coming up and commenting to you uh outside the stage door afterwards um generally uh what kind of feedback are you getting overall specifically for you and then generically for the show um I definitely get a lot of um just the other night a girl you know came up to me and she was a bigger girl and curly hair and she's like I just I can't tell you what it means for me to see someone who looks like me on stage and um and that you're being called beautiful and it just and she just had tears in her eyes she's like it just means a lot means a lot and there are a lot of people that I've met that too that beyond size or whatever have clearly been told they're probably not enough in society for whatever reason it is and the amount of them that says um how much it means to them to hear me sing the song beautiful right off the top of the bat which is just me talking about how beautiful I am um means a lot and that's something that you know on days where I'm if I've had a bad day or a rough day or whatever you don't feel great about yourself which happens to all of us um that's what I remember and why I then I'm like nope we can't do that on stage because that is not Pamela that is not her she does not have that insecurity because the whole world has told her her whole life how beautiful she is so it is just fact there's no you're like well yep that's I know that's all I am gorgeous and you know and she's dealing with a day of having to meet suitors which she hates and so it's kind of her way of like male suitors yes exactly and of her being like well like I am beautiful and just like returning to what she knows to be true you know how some people say like if you're freaking out stop and be like what day of the week is it where are you you're in a room you're okay so her way of coping is I am beautiful my life is perfect okay it's just like it's just hilarious but that's really her like talking herself down from like oh god these men are coming again I hate it you know and how much of of Pamela is you versus like what you've created how much how much of Bonnie is inside Pamela oh there's so much there's a lot of the like the pre you know judgmental voices that tore Bonnie down uh before there's a lot of early Bonnie Pamela and pamela and um I mean a lot of the rhythms of things and you know how I speak a lot of things is very much me um yeah so you speak in iambic pentameter all the time no and the the band is all female yes so that's that's unique to that and then the I don't want to give away spoilers the the king or the the queen something's happens to her she becomes something I don't want to give away the thing um speaking of it's very female empowerment yes yes message it's very um yeah it's body positivity as you said female empowerment like promoting promoting uh queer individuals on stage and you are also very outspoken about trans rights on your social accounts as well do you feel I mean is again is that based on um kind of the show you're in and the position you're in now or would you be is Bonnie like are you an activist outside of Head Over Heels outside of Broadway I definitely am outside of there I've I was always that kid that I remember um you know saying stuff to my mom and like tear-filled eyes of just and I think theater immediately like in small town I met more diverse people than

[37:09] Bonnie Milligan: I can and I'll use the voice I can. And I will try to spread a message of love and light and acceptance and to say that if you're feeling scared, I don't know what I can do, but I'll do all I can to fight for you. And, you know, you think of you look at history and you look at when we talk about the Holocaust, and I remember being in high school and thinking, how could people let that happen? Like, even if you how, how could you let that happen? Or you look back at civil rights, and you're like, why were people letting this happen? And I feel like we're closer to that, you know, now, and I think, well, I'm not just going to sit back and be complacent, because it doesn't affect me. I'm going to use my voice in any way that I can.

And if I'm called upon, then I'll do whatever I can, because I think that's my right, not my right, my what I need to do as a human being, is what we all should do is stick up for each other, because the world needs all the array of people that we have, it's shitty, if you just don't, like, you need to, like, be a decent human being. And that's the only way we can come towards change. And when that, you know, New York Times article came out about Trump trying to define gender as your genitalia at birth, and all of these steps towards trans erasure, you know, I was texting with Peppermint, who is a dear friend and colleague and star and human being who's in fear for her rights. And it's not okay.

And why what hatred causes people to be scared of Peppermint, who's the sweetest, nicest, kindest, most open loving human, and you're really gonna fight for her and what I just it just blows my mind. And so, yeah, it seems like it's all based in fear and fear and unknown. And I think like you and I have very similar paths around the middle school high school age of growing up in these being in these small towns, but because we were involved with theater, yeah, the theater kids, yeah, are always such this eclectic bunch of differences. Yeah. And so I felt I felt the exact same way I I was also the computer nerd. So I had a double whammy before computer nerds were cool. Computer nerd and theater nerd.

So I got picked on a lot. And I was super skinny. Yeah. And you can give me a big pouty face. I probably got bullied. Yeah, I did. I did. And and so it's never it's never made sense to me why, why anybody wants to purposely make somebody else feel like that. And I just don't get it. I think it's fear. And the people that I know, especially from back home, home being North Carolina, who I've actually seen with me, I've actually lost some, some of my older friends and parents of friends. Yeah. Because they're just so like, well, this is right, because I'm white. Like, that doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't make a damn bit of sense. But anyway, here we are. Who do you think you would actually be if you hadn't been part of Head Over Heels? Who would Bonnie be?

[41:36] Bonnie Milligan: Who would Bonnie be? Um, an actress looking for a job. I probably would have done the Kinky Boots tour a lot longer.

[41:46] Alan Seales: I meant more, more emotionally. Emotionally. Yeah. Oh, wow.

[41:52] Bonnie Milligan: Image. I imagine Pamela has allowed you to, to like, accept your own beauty, as you said.

[42:03] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, my life would be a lot sadder. I think it's, I feel like I've, I've learned so much in this process of, you know, the show and being the only person to have been with it from the beginning and riding that roller coaster. I've learned so much. And I've met such amazing people that are so integral and important in my life that I just can't imagine, like, the woman who played my mom in Oregon is one of my dearest, dearest friends. And she's kind of like my theater mom. So she's really my mentor in a lot of ways. And God, I can't imagine life without Miriam. She has kept me off the ledge in so many ways. Yeah, it would be a lot, a lot sadder.

[42:50] Alan Seales: Wow. What do you think you're the most proud of so far in your career? Your career is actually, your Broadway career is just... You will have many more decades. But what are you proud of so far?

[43:00] Bonnie Milligan: I mean, I'm really proud of this. I'm really proud of this show. And what we're doing and the album that we got to make. I mean, that's a lot of bucket list stuff that I've gotten to do with this show. And the lives that I feel like we're really changing. I'm very proud of that.

[43:21] Alan Seales: And if you could pick any role on a show to just in general, you could say, I want that role. Give it to me now. What would you pick?

[43:28] Bonnie Milligan: I want that role. Give it to me now. Oh, gosh, I feel like existing things. I always say I mean, they're doing they're bringing here I'm sure they're using their West End girl, but I've always wanted to do female Bobby in Company.

[43:43] Alan Seales: Very good.

[43:46] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah. And then just a quick plug for you as we're wrapping up here, you will. When are you going to do Escape at Dannemora? And what is that?

[43:51] Bonnie Milligan: Okay, so it's a new mini series that's coming out on Showtime that Ben Stiller directed. It's, you know, he's an up and comer. They have an amazing cast is led by Benicio del Toro and Paul Dano. They play a few years I think it was 2015. They were two prison escapees up in the Finger Lakes up at Dannemora. So that's what this is about. And Patricia Arquette plays the corrections officer who helps them escape. And David Morse, Bonnie Hunt, one of my personal heroes, we didn't have any scenes, but the fact that we're in in an episode at the same time, pretty pretty jazzed about.

[44:29] Alan Seales: Your filming's all done already.

[44:32] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah, yeah, I filmed it last year. So I did two episodes. There's eight total. I play a waitress named Betsy. And yeah, it was great. It was it was crazy. You know, it was really cool. I got to go and stay at Lake George overnight and go to, you know, on a set with Ben Stiller all day.

[44:54] Alan Seales: That's pretty, pretty awesome. So it comes out November 18. It premieres this year 2018.

[45:00] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah, cool. And then we have three standard questions.

[45:03] Alan Seales: Yes. Did I ask everybody to wrap up? Very generically, what motivates you?

[45:08] Bonnie Milligan: What motivates me? Um, I think the desire to share light and love in this world.

[45:18] Alan Seales: What advice would you give to your younger self?

[45:22] Bonnie Milligan: She gave me a face. Do you want to do you want to answer that again? No.

[45:29] Alan Seales: That's nice. Your publicist is with us here.

[45:34] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah. Um, let's see. So the second question, then what advice would you give to your younger self and or younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[45:41] Bonnie Milligan: I think for people I say hold on to who you are. This is a tough biz. And a tough world is getting here. And what makes you different is what makes you special and the world deserves your voice. So don't cheat the world. And just stay grounded. And that's different for everybody. It could be your family, your friends, your faith, your who knows your motivation. But be kind and be someone that people want to work with. And just again, hold hold on to what makes you you and don't forget it.

[46:23] Alan Seales: Last question, if you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you say?

[46:31] Bonnie Milligan: What? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. If I could see one show, but as many times as I want. That is so hard. Oh, how dare you?

[46:48] Bonnie Milligan: I mean, I feel like I, I never saw it. But I wanted to see it live was like the original cast of Ragtime. I, I would love like, original cast Ragtime that like, album is everything.

[47:05] Bonnie Milligan: Oh, my gosh, you know what I've also been listening to recently, and I lived for it was Disaster that happened. If I want it. So if I wanted one, like, art sake that but if I could have to the other would be Disaster because it just I saw it three times and made me so happy. And the album is still so good. And it just it makes me laugh. And it's just Yeah, that's what I would do.

[47:28] Alan Seales: Thank you for being here. We can find you on Twitter at Belting Bonnie on Instagram at Belting Buns.

[47:32] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah, it's a little more casual, more casual instances. And anything else YouTube or?

[47:41] Bonnie Milligan: Yeah, I mean, I'm all over. Yeah. The YouTube also on Search Party on TBS. Yep. I play Catherine Chantal's sister. And I just shot for season three to which is coming out there filming now. So look for that on TBS. And yeah, wonderful.

[48:02] Alan Seales: That's right. And then Birdland, you know, November 26.

[48:05] Bonnie Milligan: That's right. And then you can find more of me and The Theatre Podcast at theatre_podcast, both on Instagram and Twitter, or facebook.com/officialtheatrepodcast. You can also listen and subscribe via thetheatrepodcast.com. Please give an honest review everywhere you get your podcasts. Of course, we are produced here by Jillian Hochman. And a big thank you as always to Jukebox the Ghost for this music you hear underneath us right now. Bonnie Milligan, thank you so much for talking. Come see Head Over Heels at the Hudson. It's a good time. I promise you'll leave feeling much lighter than when you came in. Thank you.

[48:47] Bonnie Milligan: Deep breath make the world a little colorful.