This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Isaac Mizrahi: Hi, I'm Isaac Mizrahi, and welcome to The Theatre Podcast with Alan Seales.

[0:11] Alan Seales: Greetings, fellow fashionistas and Broadway lovers. This is an all-new episode of The Theatre Podcast, and I'm your host, Alan Seales. In case you haven't heard of Isaac Mizrahi, this episode's guest, let me give you a quick word of advice. Google this dude. He's been a fashion icon for decades and a household name, but interestingly enough, he found all of this fame and success because he was afraid to try to do what he really wanted to do, which was be a Broadway performer. It's insane to me how much he succeeded in a field that he really only kept doing because he just happened to be good at it, and opportunities kept presenting themselves that, as he says, he would have just been stupid not to take.

Given the fact that so much of his career is embracing chance encounters, it felt very appropriate to bring in Heather Vickery, the co-host for one of my other podcasts called Was It Chance?, which also aligns with how Isaac made his career what it is today. So that third voice you hear in this episode, that's Heather. Make sure to check out the show notes for more information about my other podcast, Isaac's Upcoming Show at 54 Below, and please leave a rating and review in your podcast platform wherever you're listening now. Everyone, now please enjoy this episode with Isaac Mizrahi.

[1:27] Alan Seales: Today's guest is a creative force with an unparalleled ability to blend fashion, entertainment, and art. This individual has left an indelible mark on each field he touches, his journey from the vibrant streets of Brooklyn to the glittering stages of Broadway and the forefront of fashion innovation has been nothing short of extraordinary. With a career spanning decades, he has become a household name known for his sharp wit, bold designs, and magnetic personality. Whether behind the scenes or in the spotlight, he has consistently pushed boundaries and redefined what it means to be a modern-day Renaissance man, capital R. Today we have the privilege of speaking with the iconic designer, performer, and television personality who can soon be seen performing at 54 Below, August 28th through 31st, Isaac Mizrahi. Holy cow! Welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[2:19] Isaac Mizrahi: Hi, darling. Wow, what a great introduction. Thank you so much.

[2:24] Alan Seales: You're welcome. That's all the time we've got. You're also on Was It Chance, Isaac? You're getting two for one today.

[2:31] Isaac Mizrahi: Yes. Oh, wow. Hi.

[2:33] Alan Seales: Hi. I'm so excited. I like it. One-stop shopping. A special two-for-one podcast interview with my co-host of my other podcast, Heather Vickery. Welcome, Heather.

[2:42] Heather Vickery: Hi, guys.

[2:43] Isaac Mizrahi: Heather, who has done nothing at all with her life.

[2:49] Alan Seales: I have done all the top that you introduced, and Heather has done literally nothing.

[2:52] Isaac Mizrahi: No, tell me a little about Heather.

[2:54] Heather Vickery: You have a great podcast.

[2:56] Alan Seales: I know all about Alan.

[2:57] Heather Vickery: I do. I do have a great podcast, but we want to talk all about you.

[3:02] Isaac Mizrahi: We do. We want to hear all about you, but if you want to hear about me, we can hook up later, Isaac.

[3:06] Alan Seales: Okay. All right. I like it. I'm in Brooklyn here, which is where you grew up, right? I want to start at the beginning. You've done so much, and we have so much to cover. Hopefully, we'll get to all of it, but let's start at the beginning, because you grew up in Brooklyn, too, right?

[3:17] Isaac Mizrahi: Yes, I did. Well, where are you from originally?

[3:22] Alan Seales: I'm from, I say, North Carolina.

[3:27] Isaac Mizrahi: Oh, okay. Well, because the thing is, I was born in Brooklyn, right? I have this funny thing about calling myself a New Yorker, because I always think that New Yorkers were born in New York proper. By the way, I was born at Mount Sinai Hospital, which is all the way up on the west side.

[3:43] Alan Seales: Yeah, yeah. My kids were both born there.

[3:46] Isaac Mizrahi: I lived in Brooklyn, and I lived there until I was about 20 years old, right? But I went to Performing Arts High School when I was 13, so I traveled on the subway every day to 46th Street. My father worked on 34th Street. I felt like a lot of that. My uncles lived in the city, so I feel a little bit weird about saying I'm a New Yorker, except I don't know how much more New York you get than that.

[4:15] Alan Seales: I think you're safe.

[4:16] Isaac Mizrahi: I think I'm safe. I know. But you know, Lena Dunham has this thing also. We kind of talk about it all the time, about how you really can't say you're a New Yorker unless you lived in New York as a baby, but I tend to not agree. Anyway, sadly, no.

[4:28] Alan Seales: I think you have to be angry enough consistently, and then you call yourself a New Yorker, so I definitely hit that mark.

[4:33] Isaac Mizrahi: I think you're right about that. Well, anyway, so I started, mostly the thing I wanted to do was be a performer, like a stage performer. I started when I was very, very young. I can't even remember. I started doing female impersonations. I've told the story so many times, but I started doing Streisand and Liza Minnelli and Shirley Bassey and all these different amazing – and eventually, I can probably still do Shirley Bassey. I won't, but I can still do Shirley Bassey.

[5:09] Alan Seales: Damn, that was my next question.

[5:10] Isaac Mizrahi: I used to do these crazy – no, no, you can't. Just don't even forget about it. But I used to do it. We had this driveway, and I had a garage that was blocked by this extension my parents built on the house in Brooklyn, which I turned into a puppet theater. I made puppets. So I was this sort of cross between Charles Bush and Florent Ziegfeld. I had this giant, extravagant follies of puppets going on in the garage, while also having a two-for-one sort of revival of whatever funny girl going on starring me.

[5:49] Alan Seales: That's amazing.

[5:50] Isaac Mizrahi: I know. It was sort of amazing. The thing is, it was Starlings. We're talking about the 1970s. This was not a source of pride, let's put it that way, for the family, for the Mizrahi family. They were mortified by the fact that I was doing this. They didn't want to discourage it, and yet they did everything in their power to sort of deflect. They looked away. You know what I mean? My parents looked away. It just wasn't something that made them proud. I could feel that. I could feel it. I was quite sensitive to that.

[6:24] Alan Seales: Most performers would be.

[6:26] Isaac Mizrahi: I know. The thing is, it made me a little frightened of the idea. My father was in my father was a drummer until he sort of came to his senses and married my mother and went into the children's wear business.

[6:34] Alan Seales: Your father was a drummer?

[6:43] Isaac Mizrahi: He was a drummer. Yeah, he's still a drummer, actually.

[6:46] Alan Seales: Wow. Well, you see, you're lucky that your father is still a drummer. I always thought that if my father had stayed a drummer, he might have been much happier in his life, and he might have lived longer. He died really young when he was like 56 years old, which is really young. But anyway, the point is that he used to tell me, you know, it's like one in a jillion and, you know, the gorgeous ones, which you're not. I mean, he was trying to break it to me gently that I wasn't gorgeous. And, you know, at performing arts high school, where I went to performing arts high school, I auditioned for the drama department. I got right in. I auditioned for the music department and truth be told, I did not get into the music department. I was in the middle of playing this big Mozart thing. I just broke down and started crying and I couldn't finish because it was just too much stress for me to play the piano.

[7:31] Isaac Mizrahi: Playing the piano is so much stress, darling. And you can see, like, it's I have there's always a piano in my shadow, right? Like, I always have a fucking piano in my shadow. And someday I will be a concert pianist, right?

[7:44] Alan Seales: I believe you.

[7:44] Isaac Mizrahi: Anyway, so the point is, like, I took lessons for years. I was like a really good pianist. I was a really good singer. I was a really good creator of these puppet shows. I went to performing arts. I was one of the stars of the Spring Drama Festival. I was, you know, Touchstone and As You Like It, which was a great. I mean, I didn't get J-Queeze. My friend Kevin got J-Queeze, right?

[8:04] Alan Seales: Damn it, Kevin.

[8:05] Isaac Mizrahi: Crushed, crushed that I didn't get J-Queeze, but I got Touchstone. Touchstone's a pretty great part. There are two or three really good monologues. But anyway, the point is that, you know, something told me besides my father and my mother kind of looking away the whole time, right? It was also the teachers at PA at the time. They were great. But all they said, literally, every day we went to school, they were like, about one, like, 200,000 of you will be getting jobs as actors and the rest, darlings, maybe you should look at, you know, ushering or ticket sales or something, you know, like, it's probably not going to work for you, but good try, you know, good try. And here are these gorgeous people in my class, you know, and there were, I don't know, like, there were a few, like, Stephen Webber, you know, Stephen Webber, there's a tall, thin, blonde kid.

He was in my class, right? Stephen was, he's a really good friend of mine. I've known him since I'm 12 years old. And I think to myself, now Stephen's going to get cast because he is, also, Stephen was not gay. Stephen, you know, he was all those things that you would think in 1980 or whenever it was, right? I mean, 1979 or whatever it was when I graduated, you'd think that that person would get cast, right? And so, when I graduated, I was also, by the way, making clothes because I had an, I had this puppet theater in the garage and I had this kind of studio in the basement where I made the puppets and clothes and I made sketches. So, I was doing this all my whole life.

[9:33] Alan Seales: That's what I was going to dive into for a second because you were, you started out performing and I would have, I mean, given the fashion, the impact on the fashion world that you made, and we're going to get to that, obviously, I would have thought that you would have just always been like, I'm doing fashion, that's what I'm doing.

[9:45] Isaac Mizrahi: No, you know, I mean, the thing I really wanted to do was perform and act and sing and, you know, and then I looked at fashion. I tell you what, like, another complication, another wrinkle in the story here is that I was raised in a, albeit a sort of a reformed Jewish household, but the yeshiva we went to was very, very religious. It was, you know, it was like orthodox, the yeshiva, right? And the temple my family belonged to was pretty orthodox and my sisters actually, they took it all really seriously. They became very, very, very orthodox, you know, like, honey, they are like, wow, they are so religious, my sisters. And anyway, so that environment was like, not also just the terrible bullying, like you hear stories, well, darling, this was bullying on a different level, you know, it was almost funny, you know, it was almost hilarious.

And I'd have to be an idiot to believe one word these people were saying to me only because it was so obvious that it was some kind of desperate ploy to kind of push me out, you know. And, and so I, like, I started to feel this pressure when I was very young, when I was like, 14, 15 years old, I was exposed to the greatness of New York City. I mean, my parents took us to the theater a lot before performing arts. But darling, when I was once you get to performing arts high school, and your best friends are like, you know, ballerinas at ABT, for instance, like, you know, two of my best friends are still, you know, ballet teachers, but they were in the corps de ballet. You know what that's like? It's 1617 18. They start them at the corps de ballet.

[11:28] Alan Seales: I was my ballet career. Did you have a ballet career?

[11:36] Isaac Mizrahi: Oh, sorry. No, no, I was just like, hmm, Alan and a dance. I mean, I could see it. I think I could I still have my dance belt, by the way.

[11:42] Alan Seales: Yes. Would you sign it and send it to me, please? I would love to.

[11:44] Isaac Mizrahi: I would love to. Are you secretly wearing it now?

[11:51] Alan Seales: I wear it every day just became a totally different podcast.

[11:56] Isaac Mizrahi: Sorry, but you know, like when you go to the ballet every night of your life, literally every night of your life, and your parents don't even ask where you are. That's the thing. It was a different world. You know, I would leave at seven o'clock in the morning to go to high school, and I would not come back until 11 o'clock most nights. I didn't even worry. He was I'm on the subway taking the subway home, or like, anyway, that was like three out of five nights or out of seven nights.

[12:20] Isaac Mizrahi: I really disappeared. So anyway, so I was taking the subway. Darling, that to me is freedom. The subway in New York City is literally equated with the most free you could ever be. So I was exposed to that. And I thought, well, you know what, there's something wrong with these people, you know, the community and the rabbis and my family even to an extent. And I need to start making money to get myself out of here to get an apartment to sort of live away from all of this and thrive if possible, you know, and so I made this decision. And it was right to the extent that it was easier getting a job as a design assistant in New York City in those days. Oh, my God. I mean, when you consider the odds of getting cast in something, you could just I mean, you hear the stories of people going on castings and castings and castings and castings.

And, you know, and they just don't get apart. And by the way, you know what, can I tell this story? I was recently in Chicago, right? That's where I am. Yeah, no, no, no, I know the show. Yeah, I was in the show Chicago, two years ago, right? And I auditioned and I thought, okay, they want me for Amos, of course, right? Because I am so Amos. But you know, when I saw the show in 1974, or whatever the hell that was, when I was 13 years old, it was the fabulous Jerry Orbach, who was not beautiful. And he was, he was sexy in a way, but he was also middle aged, not gorgeous. And I thought, well, why don't they consider me for Billy, you know, and I had lunch with BB Neuwirth, who's a good friend of mine.

And I had and I and I, when I went to the audition, I said, What about Billy? And they were like, no, not Billy, you know, it was like, okay, you know, and BB was like, maybe not Billy, consider Amos. It's a great part. You know, it's like, I so you see what I mean? I'm not wrong about this idea of not being so castable. Well, especially now that I'm over a certain age, right? But anyway, 25 is over. Yeah, over a certain age. But anyway, the point is that I was right in that I did get a job right out of the box that just, it was an insane thing. It was at Perry Ellis. I was I was in between my, my freshman and my senior year, my whatever that thing is in the middle of the junior and senior year.

And I applied for that job. And we had this meeting. And he was incredible. He was like a mentor to me. And you know, this morning, I was thinking about this. I'm sorry to go on. Okay, but I will go on. All right. Like, I was thinking about where I got the idea that that the world was so incredible, and that it was so necessary to experience all these things of the world, you know, and I think I knew that I don't know where I knew that from, because a lot of my friends who went to performing arts who were really successful, kind of like actors or arts administrators, whatever it is, that's their life, their life is arts administration, or acting or whatever it is. And they don't really feel compelled to go to literally every fucking museum show in the world, you know, or every damn sort of performance of the ring cycle in bear rot.

You know what I mean? It's like, I feel the I feel like I need to do that culturally. It's a crazy kind of a quest, right? And, and when I think about like my life, you know, I think about, I think about the kind of focus you need, right? To be good at something. And darlings, you realize how much of your life you have to sacrifice to being good at something. And, you know, like, I mean, I think I'm good at a lot of things. And I have sacrificed almost everything else, you know what I mean, to the altar of, of the performing arts, you know, and also the design, you know, design, designing, I'm not bad at that. I consider design also so akin to, to performance, you know, I don't know, I always.

Well, you know, now what I do is not really this kind of haute couture thing. It's I have a very big sort of smart business at QVC. But it's mostly about, you know, a very good little Pima cotton t shirt with a certain neckline and a certain sleeve. And that's what we do, you know, a cashmere sweater, that's $100. That's amazing quality, that's a really good color, you know, right? That's what we do mostly. So it's not like I'm creating these moments on the runway, you know, it's not like I'm telling so much a story. That's, that's what I was doing. For those sort of 10 years when I was in business by my, you know, on the couture thing, I was like telling a story, I was envisioning a woman's life more than just doing clothes, I was presenting a woman to the public who I thought was, you know, erudite, and urbane and sophisticated, who traveled around the world, etc. All the things I wish I was, you know, and I think I am all the things that I am, you know, as if I am a woman, I am that, right?

That's what I was gonna ask about. It sounds like you're channeling your inner femininity, like, and you said one of the very first things that you ever did was dress up and imitate other women. Well, I didn't dress up, I'd never dressed up, because I never saw myself physically, as this vehicle to look good. I always thought of myself, I did the voice and the mannerisms, but I never, never did the clothes. I often think like, if I were born in a different time, I might have done the clothes, you know, born in a different time to a different family and a different community situation, a different school. You know, I recently did these, I recently did these incredible posts online with that amazing, you know, wunderkind called Max Alexander.

We went to the Met to look at this exhibit, you know, this wonderful exhibit called Sleeping Beauties. And I was thinking, first of all, his mother, the minute she came on, I met her for the first time in the lobby of the Met with pink hair. I thought, you know what, if my mother had pink hair, I would just be, of course, my mother had impeccable hair, but it was not pink. You know what I mean, right? Like, this woman was so kind of amazing, his mother, and the way she was so, like, proud of him and on it and sort of supportive of him. And you know, my mother was supportive and on it, but it was a different kind of a thing, you know, like Max's mom was just so incredibly, like, I don't know, and on top of everything, she was a mom, you know, my mother was more like, she was a great mother for artists, I will say, for me as an artist, she was a great mother.

You know, she talked to me like I was an adult, right? That's one thing she did. And she, you know, she would look at my sketches, and she would, like, critique them as though I was showing, you know, I was as though she was, you know, the Dean of Parsons or something. She'd be saying, you know, the white blouse, maybe it's better. I'm not kidding, you know, and me going, yeah, I think, you know, I really so that was, but you should see, like, I think if I had a different mother, different circumstances, different world, I might be, like, I don't know, a drag performer or a performer who had less kind of, I don't know, boundaries, less boundaries, you know? More just accepting.

[19:46] Alan Seales: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[19:50] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the episode. Isaac, I'm so curious. So the Was It Chance version of this show, we talk about taking intentional risk for creative success. And I'm really curious what intentional risk you took led to you being a fashion icon because it wasn't your thing.

[20:08] Isaac Mizrahi: Well, I mean, you know, let's let's go back a minute, because I was making clothes, I was sketching. In my class at Performing Arts, people knew me as like this person who also had this interest in fashion, you know, and so I did have an interest in fashion. I did, you know, my mother would get Vogue. She was like this incredible, stylish person, just unbelievably stylish. But it was kind of like, it wasn't the same kind of expression. It did not feel as ecstatic as being on stage, you know, in a play or being on stage singing for a bunch of people or dancing. It was nowhere near as terrifying, you know. I mean, to me, show businesses, I get such stage fright, I can't tell you.

[20:54] Alan Seales: Oh, really?

[20:54] Isaac Mizrahi: Oh, yeah, especially. And the point is, like, every time I ask myself, every time I go on stage now, you know, I have these shows coming up 54 Below and I go, why? Why did you do this? What are you thinking? And then I go through the show and I think, that's good. That's pretty funny. That's a beautiful song. That's going to be a good arrangement. We'll kill this. And I end up, you know, kind of reconvincing myself why I'm actually doing it. But it's a different thing. And, you know, it's like when a parent, right, when a dog, whatever it is, someone who takes care of someone else when they prepare dinner. Like, I'm a good cook, too. You know, it's like fashion is like that. It's like cooking or something.

It's just it comes out of you, either comes out of you or it doesn't. You know, like some people just can't cook. I completely understand. I mean, why do you both laugh so hard? Because it's true. It's very true. It's very true. And I can see it as a great analogy in fashion.

[21:58] Alan Seales: Right. Yeah, no, I mean, like, some people just are, you know, like, this is one thing that I it's always hilarious. Like when mothers say, oh, their nine year old is going, not that shoe, not that shoe, darling. You know, it's like we just knew at nine years old that it was not about that shoe, you know, not that. I just like put your damn shoes on. I don't care what they are. Yeah. But if your kid was saying, Dad, you can't wear those shoes with those pants, that's not going to work. You can't wear those shoes with that dance belt.

[22:28] Isaac Mizrahi: Exactly. They don't match. That doesn't work. How did how did you actually get into fashion as a career that if you were going to school, you were pursuing theater?

[22:34] Isaac Mizrahi: Yeah, I know. I was too scared. And I mean, that fear that motivated me, I was too scared to be what to do what I really wanted to do, which was go to Juilliard. You know, I didn't even audition for Juilliard. I didn't even audition for for for purchase. You know, all of my friends either went to Juilliard or purchase right from Performing Arts. And I didn't because I didn't even think because I again, I went back to this thing. I got to get out of here. I got to make some money. Who's not getting cast me? Why don't I just cut to the chase and try to make a living, you know? And so that's why I did it. And I went to Parsons. I I applied to Parsons with this great portfolio because I had been sketching and making clothes.

And I knew I swear to God, like in Parsons, I'm not kidding you. I knew more about sewing than my sewing teacher in second year. I'm not kidding. Wow. Try to correct my sewing. I'd be like, thank you. Thank you. You could go back. Thanks. So you can go back to death. No, I mean, you know, when you're doing my father was in the business. We had all these sewing machines in the basement. I learned how to he taught me how to sew. And and I started sewing it the puppets. That's how I started making these puppets for these crazy, fabulous shows, you know? Anyway, so that's the risk, I guess, which was the opposite of a risk. It was sort of like a tail between my legs. Yeah. Safety net.

[24:01] Alan Seales: Well, so you're a fashion label that started in 1987, right? Like, yeah. Can anybody just go out and start a label? How does that happen? Because it immediately like garnered all this critical acclaim at the time.

[24:41] Isaac Mizrahi: You know, five trips a year on trunk shows, you just look and you become a stylist. I was sent on a seaplane, you know, five times a year with models and Erica Lennard, this incredible photographer. I learned a lot from Erica. I mean, like everybody, I learned a lot. And I remember, I was terrible. You know, it's like, I remember like those days at Perry Ellis when it was just teeming with not just editors, not just Andre Talley, who was also very young in those days, not just crazy, like Harry Donovan, and Manolo Blahnik, who is to this day, a really good friend of mine, you know, not just these incredible people, but also like movie stars, and you know, Tommy Tune. And I just can't remember.

I mean, Mariel Hemingway and Lauren Bacall. I met Lauren Bacall. I worked with Lauren Bacall one morning, it was like, oh my god, you know, right? That's just the tip of the, like Sigourney Weaver, I don't know, all of these people came in and out of Perry Ellis, right? And so like, it was like this nexus. It was like this, at that point, it confirmed that I was right about the world, about this big old fabulous world, with these fabulous people on planes, in and out of parties, in and out of clubs, some of them louche, you know. And so, you know, and it became this kind of thing. And then I read Noel Coward's diaries. I don't know if you ever read those, darlings. Oh, my god, you know, it's like, every other word is Judy or Marlena.

Judy was so tiresome last night, she just wouldn't stop singing at the piano. You know, right? You know, and so like, I don't know, and then he, it's a little, it's like 10 years too late. Noel Coward started those diaries. By the time he started those diaries, he was already like struggling as a playwright and struggling. You know, those first 10 years of his life, he was like the toast of everything. But then it became a little difficult. And still, he was a massive success. But at the end of it, he starts at the Café de Paris in London, right? And he goes to Vegas to do these shows in Vegas. And I think like, excuse me, right? This is my life. Cabaret, or, you know, or like these weird little concerts, right?

I don't really see it as cabaret. I see it as more like weird little concerts that I do. Or I do these songs that are amusing to me, or dear to me. And I do patter that is funny. And a lot of it, I mean, I was saying this to this person the other day, oh, if you're going to appear in front of people, you have to prepare, right? You have to prepare stuff to say, or you're going to, you're going to mess up, right? And you have to get the joke, right? You have to present the da da da and the punchline, right? And I once interviewed Patti LuPone. By the way, you remember, I had a talk show for seven years. Yeah, right. Well, and you've written a memoir. I mean, you've done it all. That's right. This is true.

This is true. This is true. But once Patti LuPone, you know, she said to me, I like to be very, very prepared, you know, and then there was that thing on the Julie Andrews. She did some talk and she said something like, amateurs prepare, do it. I can't remember the quote, but it's something to do with like, professionals do it until they can't get it wrong. Professionals do something until they can't get it wrong. You know what I mean? Like, we have to look up that quote, because it's beyond. It's something like, you know, amateurs do it till they get it right. And professionals do it until they can't get it wrong. That's what it was. Yeah, I mean, that is the greatest quote in the world, you know?

And so I prepare all this stuff to say, I rehearse the shit out of everything, right? And then something occurs to me while I'm performing. And I can't stop myself from saying it, because it becomes this like, very, I don't care if there's 3000 people in the audience, it becomes like a really, what, like an intimate moment that I'm talking to these people.

[28:42] Alan Seales: Well, it's real. It's authentic.

[28:43] Isaac Mizrahi: It's very, very real. Exactly. And I have to say, like, when I perform in shows with lines, plays, I'm pretty good at that. I don't know if you saw, no one saw Chicago, but it was, I was really good as Amos Hart, you know?

[28:57] Alan Seales: Of course.

[28:57] Isaac Mizrahi: But—

[28:58] Alan Seales: Well, I tried to, but I saw right through you.

[29:02] Isaac Mizrahi: Wow.

[29:04] Isaac Mizrahi: He's been holding on to that.

[29:06] Isaac Mizrahi: Anyway, it's all very gratifying. Performing to me is just the most, and a friend of mine, she's also an artist, and part of what she's doing now is performative. I mean, she's mostly an illustrator, and she's great. And she's doing these films right now. She's making these little films where she's portraying, and she's like, Isaac, how did I not know? It's like, darling, we're all running away and joining the circus. This is what we're going to do in our old age, you know? Like, seriously, we're going to go, we're going to just drop everything else and just be on stage every night of our fucking lives, you know?

[29:39] Alan Seales: You are going on and on about performing and being on stage and everything, and still, it's like you're living two different lives within your head, right?

[29:49] Isaac Mizrahi: I know.

[29:49] Alan Seales: You've got the super successful, you're a Bravo host, you've got podcasts, you've got books, you've got the fashion, fashion, fashion. And then on the other side, all you want to do is be this loved and accepted performer.

[30:02] Isaac Mizrahi: I know. What is that? And I think to myself, like, I need a big break in show business.

[30:09] Alan Seales: So where was the chance?

[30:10] Isaac Mizrahi: You know, I'm not kidding. I still need the big break. I still need the big break. I'm thinking because I don't want my, I'm not kidding, like, I want my obituary, which is all I think about, by the way, obituary. That's all I do every morning since I'm in high school. I get the New York Times, I turn to the obituary page, and I look at the obituaries. It's the greatest, so many stories. But anyway, but I want my obituary to be right, which is I don't care. I mean, fashion, yes. But fashion was like, and somehow that became like this amazing stardom. Like, for 10 years, darling, like I was on like the A, A, A, A list. And I don't care about that. I don't care about that shit. I really don't. I care about making these clothes. I guess so.

[30:58] Isaac Mizrahi: That's why I got it. I was like, really, do I have to go to this party? Do I have to go to this party? You know, I have to go. And a lot of them were fun. A lot of them were fun. But like, you know, if I had my druthers, I would have been like at some Suzanne Barsh party or something. You know what I mean, right? I would have been like at the Tunnel every night of my life or, you know, Xenon when I was 15. Forget about like parties where you have to go and red carpet. I want to go to the real fun things where you actually see things going on, you know, but yeah.

[31:29] Alan Seales: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[31:33] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the episode. So the documentary 95 unzipped, like that, that peeled back the layer, or I guess it opened the door for the general public to see inside like this incredible world of fashion, right? And it kind of cemented this, cemented you as this cultural icon of the 90s, right? So how did that kind of propel you into the television and the media career?

[31:58] Isaac Mizrahi: You know, I'm going to tell you this, which is that I was partners with Chanel, right? They owned most of my company, which closed, right? In 1998. Okay. And by the way, they were wonderful people. Like really, I had a great rapport with them. And they kind of gave me a few options. They were like, well, you know, you continue doing this, and it'll be fine if right, or you could close. And I was like, you know what, I'm getting out of this. I'm out. I was so excited. And then when I did that, it was announced on the cover of the New York Times, like it was no, I'm not kidding on the cover with a picture of me. And the headline was, you know, design a most likely to dozen to something like that. I'm not kidding. Right. And I keep saying, like, the okay part of that was that the picture was really good.

[32:53] Isaac Mizrahi: Always a silver lining.

[32:54] Isaac Mizrahi: Always a silver lining. But the point is that, you know, that when that happened, you had all these people who were calling to commiserate. And I was like, no, wait, let me let me take you back, darlings. I don't care about any of this. All I care about is like, doing what feels right in my life. And by the way, that wasn't the end of the opportunities for my fashion line. You know, then I went on to this huge thing with Target that was very, very, very earth shattering, and it changed the whole industry. And I did that for seven years. And then, you know, and then I did, I'm doing this thing with QVC. And that's pretty divine. And that's been going on now for over 15 years. And in the interim, I had a talk show.

And in the interim, I've been doing shows at Joe's pub and at all these different places and trying to get that going, you know, and I feel like that's the one. That's the one, like, what's the word? Cautionary tale about my life, right? It's like, if you want to be known as something, don't do something else and become like legendary.

[33:59] Isaac Mizrahi: Your obituary will be wrong.

[34:01] Isaac Mizrahi: Your obituary will always be but I have to change this, darlings. You have to help.

[34:05] Alan Seales: Okay, we're helping you.

[34:06] Isaac Mizrahi: Like, what can we think of? You know what I keep thinking? I think I should be in a revival of Victor Victoria. I think I should star as Toddy. You know how good I would be in that role?

[34:16] Alan Seales: Yeah, what about something modern-ish too, like Mrs. Doubtfire? Could you do that?

[34:22] Isaac Mizrahi: Okay, all right. I guess so.

[34:23] Alan Seales: Then you could play in your dress-up phase too.

[34:25] Isaac Mizrahi: I guess, right?

[34:26] Isaac Mizrahi: Or hairspray. I could do hairspray. I could, yes.

[34:30] Isaac Mizrahi: So, it's totally interesting to me how, when I was reading all this stuff, I was like, oh, this closed and then that stopped. And the assumption when someone shuts down a business is that it failed, but literally, we're breaking the misconception right now that you chose. You're like, I just don't want to do it anymore. It's fine. I can go on.

[34:51] Isaac Mizrahi: Listen, in my partnership with Chanel, I mean, if you look at it by today's standards, it was not failing. It was doing incredibly well, because all they do is, they kind of promote those designer brands, and then people know a lot about licensing, and they sign the right licenses, and that's the thing. But with Chanel, they just didn't understand anything about licensing. It was like, if you know anything about Chanel, there are no licenses. It's like, all those handbags are made in factories that make nothing but Chanel handbags.

[35:25] Alan Seales: I didn't know that.

[35:25] Isaac Mizrahi: Even the fragrance is made by Chanel, the fragrance itself, the juice that goes in the bottles. Anyway, so they didn't believe, and they were right in some ways, except in this paradigm, that's the way you make money as a designer. And so they came to me, and they were like, look, it's not working. We're losing all this money every year, but if you do this, you do that, you do that. And I was like, I'm not going to do that.

[35:53] Isaac Mizrahi: I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to constrict myself. I really want to do this other thing, and I think I have a leg up, because at the time, I was already writing this one-person show. I was already sort of talking to Dory Berenstain, our good and mutual friend Dory Berenstain, who was encouraging me to write it as a one-person show. She had come to see me perform a few times. She liked me as a performer, and she was like, oh, darling, do this, write the show. And then she helped me produce that show that became Les Mizrahi, eventually. I know, but darling, it ran for a year and a half. It was two years of my life with previews. It was incredible. But anyway, the point is that I don't necessarily see the ends of things as such. I always see the next thing that's coming. I always do. I don't know why. By the way, when I closed my doors at Chanel, not only did I have this sort of agreement to make my one-person show,

[37:00] Isaac Mizrahi: I also had a deal with Spielberg to make a movie based on a comic book that I wrote that never got made. It was with DreamWorks. We had meetings and meetings and meetings. It never happened. I had a deal with HBO to do a series about my life, which I started writing with my friend, I can't think of his name, Marshall Brickman. It was really good. We had it in the script. They passed. When you're thinking, should I close my doors? I think yes, because I have this deal with Spielberg. I have a deal with HBO. I have a deal to make a talk show. I have a deal for a one-man show. This is much more exciting to me. Anyway, that's how it worked out. What about the Target partnership? You mentioned that. I was curious about it because when you think of high-end fashion, you don't think about Target. Sorry, Target. Except that you made it high-end, because I remember that. I'm going to be 50 this year. I know, I am.

[37:58] Alan Seales: It's a great age, darling.

[38:00] Isaac Mizrahi: I'm thrilled. What a gift to be able to age. I remember you being such an icon, right as Target was becoming what it is now, like YouTube.

[38:13] Isaac Mizrahi: Totally. Because there was a licensing agent who wasn't working on my behalf, who I knew through the industry. He called and said, what would you think of this? I said to my partner, Marisa, you take the call. That could work. If it's Target, yes. Then once he got that response, he was like, well, we could shop this around. I could take it to Kmart. I was like, darling, it's not going to work.

[38:38] Alan Seales: You didn't even want to take the call.

[38:40] Isaac Mizrahi: No, it's only going to work if it's Target. We went to Minneapolis. I did a little fashion show there. We had lunch. They realized that I wasn't doing it just for one season. I really wanted it to be this ongoing thing, which they agreed to. They agreed to do it as a full head-to-toe thing with accessories. It was just great. Right off the bat, it was hugely successful. I knew that it was the right time for that. I thought if there is a partner for me for this mass thing, it would be Target. It can't work with anybody else. At the time, it was like a fun, funny place, Target. It worked. I was right.

[39:20] Alan Seales: Wow. I didn't realize how instrumental you were in changing the reputation. I remember when Target—

[39:26] Isaac Mizrahi: Oh, look it up, darling. Look it up.

[39:28] Alan Seales: Alan does his research, too. You should see our notes on the back end.

[39:32] Isaac Mizrahi: I'm sure I know. Me, too.

[39:34] Alan Seales: He wants to see my back end. I'll show you my back end.

[39:36] Isaac Mizrahi: So are these things happening congruently? Forgive me for not fully knowing the timeline, but you've got Target. You're meeting with Dory. How close is all of this stuff happening?

[39:45] Isaac Mizrahi: It was all happening at the same time. I'm not kidding. My one-person show happened congruently with my starting the word about Target. It was starting the thing with Target. Target and Bergdorf Goodman. Let's not keep them out of the equation because I did this kind of couture thing for them. So it was Target and Bergdorf.

[40:08] Alan Seales: Talk about spectrums. I love it.

[40:10] Isaac Mizrahi: Well, that was the idea. High and low, you know?

[40:13] Alan Seales: But you were a household name, period.

[40:16] Isaac Mizrahi: Was.

[40:17] Alan Seales: Are.

[40:18] Isaac Mizrahi: Thank you.

[40:18] Alan Seales: In my household, we've been talking about you all day.

[40:21] Isaac Mizrahi: Exactly, exactly.

[40:22] Alan Seales: But what about the Bravo, the hosting, being a guest judge on TV? Was that around the same time, too, or was that—

[40:32] Isaac Mizrahi: That was a little bit later.

[40:33] Alan Seales: Yeah, it was later, right?

[40:34] Isaac Mizrahi: It was a little bit later. Well, I was a talk show host on Oxygen first and then the Style Network. So that was 2001 or something to 2006 or 2007 or 2008. And that's also when I had this thing at Target. It was like Target and Oxygen and all that. So that was good. Target was like 2007, I think. No, 2003 to 2000. I don't know. Darling, you know, this is my problem. But it was all happening at the same time. And by the way, you know, it's like when I think about President Barack Obama being not president anymore, I think that was yesterday. And that was like almost 20 years ago.

[41:22] Alan Seales: Wait, wait, what?

[41:23] Isaac Mizrahi: No, no, no, 10 years ago.

[41:25] Alan Seales: Oh, was it 10 years ago? Okay, well, you see what I mean? I'm not that old.

[41:27] Isaac Mizrahi: I don't have any. See, that's what I'm saying to you. I have no real feeling for a past or present or future. I just see it as one giant blob.

[41:39] Alan Seales: It's your life.

[41:40] Isaac Mizrahi: It's your life. Exactly, exactly, exactly.

[41:45] Alan Seales: I love it. I think that it's so cool. I mean, I really think Alan was onto something. Your fashion success might have been, and everybody can take something from this, our Was It Chance listeners who are like, how do I make this work? There's something powerful about going, yeah, I'll do it, but I'm not that attached to the outcome.

[42:04] Isaac Mizrahi: Yeah, I hear it all the time when people are like, I went in for my final audition, that was it. That was going to be it because I was giving up and I didn't care. I didn't want the job. And then they got it and it changed their life forever.

[42:15] Isaac Mizrahi: Right. I only wish we were talking about auditions in my case, as opposed to—

[42:20] Alan Seales: Well, let's talk about auditions. Have you ever actually, I mean, since you had a platform, and then people, you already had a name. And so have you had to actually audition for anything?

[42:32] Isaac Mizrahi: Occasionally, yes. And I've been rejected too. I mean, you wouldn't believe it, but people don't think I'm right for certain things. And then they stick to that and it's like, okay, well, they hired someone else. And I can't give you examples because I feel like it's too indiscreet. But like that audition for Chicago, I went in there knowing I was really good for that part. And I read with someone, this lovely woman, right? She read with me. And when I left the audition, she was in the elevator. She was like, honey, you killed that. I was like, did I? Thank you. I was so excited. At least someone was witness to that. Even if I don't get the part, at least she witnessed me killing it. I think that's more important than actually giving a shit whether you get something or not.

It's like, did you go in there that day and just kill that? Crush it, so that they can't see anything else. And sometimes they do see something else because they have other motives, like there's a bigger star or someone who's fatter or thinner or more bald or has more hair or something. It's like, there's always a reason why they don't cast you.

[43:40] Isaac Mizrahi: But you know what Bernie Telsey told me on my podcast, which I thought was the greatest, it was the most fantastic thing anybody could ever say. I said to him, what would you tell people about casting agents that would put them at more ease or make it easier for them to read or audition? He said, oh my God, that's so simple. And I said, what? And he said, we want you to be great. We are sitting there wishing, hoping it would be great. We're rooting for you. So unless you absolutely stink, unless you've done absolutely no preparation, chances are that casting director is going to look at you and go, okay, he's not good for this, not good, but he might be good for that. You know what I mean? So they're rooting. They need good people.

[44:27] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah. It makes them look better when you do better. And then somebody told me on my podcast, I don't know how many episodes ago, was that you have to go into it with a mindset that when you are auditioning, you have the role for those however many minutes you are in there. It's your role. So crush it, do your best. And if you didn't get it, remember that the business is so much luck anyway, exactly like you said.

[44:48] Isaac Mizrahi: Well, wait a minute. Recently I auditioned for something, right? I swear to God this happened, thinking I'm getting this part, right? And when I was doing it, they were like, wow, you're really good. And I was like, thanks. I mean, I hope I was good. Why are you so surprised?

[45:05] Isaac Mizrahi: I know. And then the casting agent and the producer said to me, we have to look for something for you. And I was like, as opposed to like—

[45:12] Alan Seales: Like you're not right for this, but we're going to find you something.

[45:14] Isaac Mizrahi: No, exactly. But you didn't say that before I came in. You didn't say, we're looking for something for you because you're not getting this, right? We already offered it to someone else. They didn't say that. But I thought that was hilarious. Like, oh, we're looking for something for you. But listen, they are. Maybe they are now. You know what I mean? They are looking for something for me.

[45:35] Alan Seales: Yeah, which is pretty great to be in front of them.

[45:38] Isaac Mizrahi: That is very great. That is very great. And you know what? You don't have to be famous or gorgeous or anything. You just have to be good at something, great at something.

[45:48] Alan Seales: And known for it.

[45:50] Isaac Mizrahi: That's right.

[45:51] Alan Seales: All right. So, gosh, I feel like we've talked to you forever, but I want to start making sure we cover your 54 Below show. So the 54 Below show, August 28th through 31st. Why do you continue to do the one-man shows? Are you still pursuing this acting career? That's your ultimate goal of like—

[46:10] Isaac Mizrahi: Excuse me? Yes. Why can't you believe that? Alan, what do I have to do to convince you?

[46:16] Alan Seales: What are you like? What the fuck? I hate you. Can't you just believe me when I say I want to do—

[46:20] Isaac Mizrahi: Listen, I'm trying to be a good host and set you up with softball questions that I know you could answer well.

[46:25] Isaac Mizrahi: Well, Heather believes me. Why don't you believe me?

[46:27] Alan Seales: I'm better than Alan, though.

[46:30] Isaac Mizrahi: I believe you. I'm—

[46:31] Alan Seales: You're the mother I wish I had.

[46:33] Isaac Mizrahi: Yes, I would have loved it.

[46:35] Alan Seales: So tell us. You are continuing your acting career.

[46:39] Isaac Mizrahi: Yes, I am continuing my acting. I have a few really good jobs coming up. I'm appearing in a movie, I think. I don't want to talk about it, but it's a small part in the movie that I just got that's taping over the winter. I'm excited about that. I have an appearance on a TV show that's coming up also, but I'm playing myself. Okay?

[46:56] Alan Seales: Okay. That's pretty iconic.

[46:59] Isaac Mizrahi: You know, exactly. You've got to do that every once in a while. You know, show the children who you are. But anyway, the point is that, you know, these shows that I'm doing, I have more gigs. I swear to you, I have something like, including my residence at the Carlisle, which is, you know, 10 shows. But including that, I have something like 50 or 60 shows already just booked for 2025.

[47:23] Alan Seales: That's a lot. That's just in the first half of 2025.

[47:25] Isaac Mizrahi: That's a lot.

[47:26] Alan Seales: That's a lot of shows, right?

[47:27] Isaac Mizrahi: No kidding.

[47:27] Alan Seales: With the amount of preparation you said you have to do, are you just constantly rehearsing then for all of this?

[47:39] Isaac Mizrahi: Yeah. Yes, I am. How funny is this? I have my last rehearsal for 54 Below the day before the show, right? And then I have my first rehearsal for my Carlisle residence the day after the residence at 54 Below. How funny is that?

[47:53] Alan Seales: Wow.

[47:54] Isaac Mizrahi: So poor Ben, who's the musical director, he only has to like, get all the charts and everything, and everybody rehearsed for this show for the next four nights, or whatever it is next week. But then he also has to get some new charts ready for the next day when we start looking at new music, you know. But anyway, poor Ben, or lucky Ben. Ben is amazing. Ben is one of the most smart, gorgeous creatures. I love him. He's like my platonic husband. I mean that.

[48:21] Alan Seales: I love that.

[48:22] Isaac Mizrahi: Well, hello, Ben. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break.

[48:25] Alan Seales: Welcome back to the episode.

[48:30] Isaac Mizrahi: I know that Alan has something special he wants you to do. Before we get there, though, I'd love to ask a question we always ask on Was It Chance? And you alluded to this earlier. What is your relationship with failure? I can't wait to hear your response to this.

[48:45] Isaac Mizrahi: You know, it's complicated, darling. Sometimes I think I am way better at failure than I am at success, because if I was better at success, I would have succeeded a lot more. I feel like mostly my life is defined by failure. It's like mostly I fail at things. Once in a while, something comes through, and it's like, why did that succeed? How great. I'm not kidding. I've been in therapy since I'm in first grade. You have to know that. Literally, consistently since I'm in first grade. The shrink I'm with now, I just love him so much.

[49:20] Isaac Mizrahi: Is a recurring theme. What do I like better? Do I like success better, or do I like failure better? Recently, a project of mine was picked up, which is so exciting. I'm just a producer on it, but I was so excited. I was like, hey, I'm a producer. I was so thrilled that it didn't fail. I was so excited that it didn't fail, and I was expecting to be gutted that it was not going to go. But then it happened. Since then, I've been floating on a cloud. The worst shit in the world could happen. I'm not kidding. But I go, no, but you know what, darling, this is one step closer to the obituary. I'm not kidding, darling. So I think, relax, give it a minute, breathe, you will get there. I think I am more comfortable with success than I am with failure, though failure is where you learn the most.

Failure is where you become the person you are. I mean, there's a million things to say about failure. By the way, if you like failure better than you like success, why is that wrong? Why is that wrong? Failure is like eating your feelings with your dogs, watching reruns of Sex and the City. Which is not wrong. It's just we can't do it all the time. Well, really? I mean, not if you want to keep having a house to eat the ice cream with the dogs. Isaac got a whole career out of failure. He's a fashion icon because of failure. That's right, darling. That is an interesting perspective. It's pretty great when your fallback is something that you're fucking spectacular at and everybody wants you for. Well, this is a very deep, deep, deep conversation that I wasn't expecting to have, but this is where I am. This is my life.

[51:14] Alan Seales: That's incredible. Thank you for sharing it with us. That is really incredible. I mean, it is inspiring. I hate that cliché term, but it's inspiring to know that when, like if you're scared of trying something, it's never too late to keep trying.

[51:27] Isaac Mizrahi: No, I can't. But you can still be successful, really successful, and pour your heart into something else that still brings you creative fulfillment. And you very, very consciously set your boundaries. You're like, Chanel, no, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't need to do these things. I'm going to go do something else. I'm going to let Coco go. I'm going to do something else. Whatever. I mean, it wasn't that easy. I mean, some of it felt like it was prescribed. Some of it feels like it was inevitable that I was going to close my business in 1998. It was inevitable that I would make that deal with Target because my partner was like, well, we need the money. I was like, oh, okay. In that case, it's like, well, yeah. You know what I mean? You should do that because you'd be stupid. They're offering you this incredible deal. Do it. And so I'm going to continue to do that because I do like my house. I love it.

[52:17] Alan Seales: Exactly. The autonomy, darling. You got to do it. The gigs, darling. The gigs. And so many of my friends tell me like, you're so lucky to have that gig. And I feel like I'm very blessed to have that gig, a fashion. I really do.

[52:30] Alan Seales: Well, I love that. All right. So we'll start wrapping up here with a little game that I'd like to end now on my podcast. It's called Plot in 60 Seconds. Give me a number one through 16 that will correspond to a show that you will have heard of. It's a popular show. And then you have to give me that plot in 60 seconds.

[52:50] Isaac Mizrahi: Okay. You ready? I'm going to give you the number one because I know what show that is. Ironically, that is Chicago. Go.

[52:56] Alan Seales: 60 seconds remaining.

[52:57] Isaac Mizrahi: The plot is, you know, it's about this fantastic character called Roxy Hart, who actually lived and breathed in Chicago in the 1920s. And she created the kind of success to scandal. She was the like first sort of Kardashian before the Kardashians, darling. I mean, she did crazy things which made her famous and they weren't good things. You know, she killed somebody and that's what made her famous. And she became a fabulous sort of, you know, performer because of that. And that's what the show is about. It's about how she kind of like, you know, stepped all over people, including her poor husband, Amos. Right. Including this crazy, you know, lawyer that she had called Billy Flynn, etc. So that's the story and how she met Velma Kelly. And they had this double act. I'm not sure about the Velma Kelly part. I'm not sure if that's true. You know, that could be like a creation of Kander and Ebb, you know.

[53:53] Alan Seales: Five.

[53:54] Isaac Mizrahi: Anyway, is that good? Is that the story of that 60 seconds or that's more than one?

[53:59] Alan Seales: No, that's it. Wait, was that, is this based on a true story? Chicago based on a true story?

[54:03] Isaac Mizrahi: Yeah.

[54:04] Alan Seales: I did not know that.

[54:05] Isaac Mizrahi: Chicago is based on a true story.

[54:06] Alan Seales: Seriously, Alan?

[54:07] Isaac Mizrahi: Yes.

[54:08] Alan Seales: I did not know that.

[54:09] Isaac Mizrahi: Alan, your heterosexuality precedes you. But wait a minute. Here's the thing. The other thing is, there's a movie called Roxy Heart. You know that, right? Roxy Heart.

[54:19] Alan Seales: Yeah. I have not seen it.

[54:20] Isaac Mizrahi: And I want to say it's with Ginger Rogers, but I think I'm wrong about that. Did Ginger, was that Ginger Rogers or something? I'm googling it. No, it's, oh yeah, it's Ginger Rogers. Come on.

[54:29] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[54:30] Isaac Mizrahi: Yeah. Right on. All right. Well, there you go. Anyway, there you go. So it's based on a movie called Roxy Heart.

[54:34] Alan Seales: I did not know that.

[54:36] Isaac Mizrahi: I think that's when I got the idea.

[54:38] Alan Seales: Well, I just lost my theater card for the year, I guess.

[54:41] Isaac Mizrahi: You did.

[54:42] Alan Seales: Totally.

[54:43] Isaac Mizrahi: You did.

[54:44] Alan Seales: All right.

[54:45] Isaac Mizrahi: Well, hold on to that dance belt.

[54:46] Alan Seales: The theater podcast without seal.

[54:47] Isaac Mizrahi: Yeah, exactly.

[54:48] Alan Seales: You don't want my dance belt anymore. I need to be accepted. All right. Well, hopefully I'll redeem myself with these fun final closing questions. Okay. The first one, just very simply is what motivates you?

[54:54] Isaac Mizrahi: What motivates me? I'm not sure. You know, like now what motivates me is this feeling that nothing else matters, but my personal inner like kind of feelings and my personal inner life. And a lot of that is kind of fed by my domestic situation with my husband and my dogs. I'm not kidding. So I would say like the motivation for my success or something is my husband and my dogs.

[55:23] Alan Seales: Hmm.

[55:24] Isaac Mizrahi: I love that. What advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[55:29] Isaac Mizrahi: Oh my God. You know what, darling? I'm not kidding you. Like, I'm so glad we had this talk. Because after this talk, my advice would be like, don't do a damn thing differently. Do it exactly the way you did it. Because I see now, I see somehow like that it will that my obituary will be the right obituary. I can see it now. I can see it after this conversation.

[55:53] Alan Seales: Just make sure, put it in your will that I proofread it. I'll make sure we lead with.

[55:58] Isaac Mizrahi: Yes. Oh God.

[56:00] Alan Seales: Performance superstar, Broadway king.

[56:03] Isaac Mizrahi: That's right.

[56:04] Alan Seales: Darling, I have a recurring nightmare about this. Okay, go on.

[56:08] Isaac Mizrahi: I got you.

[56:09] Alan Seales: Okay. The final question. This is the hardest one. If you can only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[56:14] Isaac Mizrahi: The easiest answer in the world. Gypsy.

[56:20] Alan Seales: Ooh.

[56:21] Isaac Mizrahi: Are you kidding? Hello. What? Is there another answer to that question? Gypsy? What?

[56:26] Alan Seales: Are you looking forward to the Audra production this fall?

[56:28] Isaac Mizrahi: Oh my God. It's not, will I see it? It's how many times will I see it? Are you kidding me, Audra? In that show, I almost don't have to see it to give it like a rave review. I can't wait. And by the way, maybe someday the world will be ready for my Mama Rose.

[56:46] Alan Seales: Oh God.

[56:47] Isaac Mizrahi: I'm not kidding. I think my encore at the Carlisle is going to be Rose's Turn. That's you just got, that's a scoop. Okay. I've been working on that for two years.

[56:57] Alan Seales: I was going to ask if you were going to perform any of that at your shows. Yeah, sounds like it.

[57:02] Isaac Mizrahi: Well, I have. I mean, I've done numbers from Gypsy. Gypsy, darling. Gypsy.

[57:05] Alan Seales: Well, hopefully when one of the times you go see Gypsy, hopefully Heather and I can go with you. I just want to watch you watch it.

[57:11] Isaac Mizrahi: Yes. Correct. We definitely want to do that.

[57:14] Alan Seales: So where can we connect with you? Where can we find you online?

[57:18] Isaac Mizrahi: You can find me at my website, which is called HelloIsaac.com or my Instagram page, which is I am Isaac Mizrahi. The initials I am, no dots, just I am Isaac Mizrahi, one word. And make sure to go to 54below.org and get tickets to Isaac's show, August 28th through 31st. Oh my God, Isaac, thank you so much for this amazing chat.

[57:39] Heather Vickery: Thank you for joining us.

[57:41] Isaac Mizrahi: Yeah, I loved it. It was so great. What a treat for me. So lovely to get to spend time with you, Isaac.

[57:46] Isaac Mizrahi: Thank you. Me too.

[57:51] Heather Vickery: Oh, darling. That was incredible.

[57:53] Alan Seales: What a ball of energy.

[57:56] Heather Vickery: Oh, I love that. That's one of my all-time favorite interviews.

[58:01] Alan Seales: So fun.

[58:03] Heather Vickery: He didn't want any of the fashion success.

[58:06] Alan Seales: I know. He's like, I guess fine. Whatever.

[58:09] Heather Vickery: I'll just do this.

[58:10] Alan Seales: Absolutely a legend.

[58:12] Heather Vickery: That's incredible.

[58:14] Alan Seales: But you know what I loved is that at the very end, he's like, I don't know if I would have said this before this interview.

[58:19] Heather Vickery: Yeah, yeah.

[58:20] Alan Seales: But now I can see that I wouldn't change anything because it all works out the way it's supposed to because, baby, was it chance?

[58:26] Heather Vickery: That was a chance, baby. That's right. Was it the theater podcast? Oh, yes, it was.

[58:32] Alan Seales: Thanks for hanging out in this crossover episode, folks. Now, that was such a cool experience to talk with somebody. I mean, when you call someone an icon, that means a lot.

[58:43] Heather Vickery: It does.

[58:45] Alan Seales: And I've talked with people like McConaughey and Oprah and these big names who I would call iconic in their own right for making a big change in the world.

[58:57] Heather Vickery: And again, he's just like my husband and my dogs.

[59:01] Alan Seales: That's what gets me going. Every now and then I'll do something because I need the cash, and you'd be dumb not to do it.

[59:07] Heather Vickery: He just embraces these opportunities that come at him, come at him, not to him, at him that he doesn't want. He's like, I don't want to answer the phone. I don't want to do that. And then all of a sudden, he's just hosting this and writing that and judging this and on TV over here.

[59:15] Alan Seales: Yeah, and having people find opportunities for him, for him, creating opportunities for him. That's the dream for all of us, right?

[59:35] Heather Vickery: I want somebody to come to me and say, I have this idea for this show. And it's gotta be you, Heather. I built it for you. So I'm putting that out into the universe right now.

[59:47] Alan Seales: Come on.

[59:48] Heather Vickery: Yeah. We didn't have time, but I was gonna ask him, I was like, I mean, could you just call up like, could you text Oprah right now and be like, I'm talking with these two great chat hosts, chat hosts.

[59:58] Alan Seales: Yeah, that's my audition right now.

[1:00:00] Heather Vickery: They would like their own talk show.

[1:00:01] Alan Seales: Can we make that happen?

[1:00:02] Heather Vickery: That's right.

[1:00:03] Alan Seales: Can you imagine?

[1:00:05] Heather Vickery: Can you imagine how much better we'd be with a writing staff?

[1:00:07] Alan Seales: I think we're pretty good, but we can have a lot of fun.

[1:00:10] Heather Vickery: Yeah. Well, everybody, thank you.

[1:00:13] Alan Seales: Thank you for listening to this amazing episode. For my solo podcast, The Theatre Podcast, you can find me on Instagram threads and TikTok at theatre underscore podcast. Facebook.com slash official theatre podcast. The music is by Jukebox the Ghost. And Heather, tell us where they can connect with us for Was It Chance?

[1:00:34] Heather Vickery: Yeah, you guys come and hang out with us. So we are on Instagram and threads at Was It Chance? It's just Was It Chance, right?

[1:00:41] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[1:00:42] Heather Vickery: Yeah.

[1:00:43] Alan Seales: Every time.

[1:00:44] Heather Vickery: Yes.

[1:00:45] Alan Seales: Every time.

[1:00:46] Heather Vickery: Because our website is wasitchance.com. But the email, see the difference is I set up everything except the email and Alan set up the email. The email is wasitchancepodcast@gmail.com. I think Was It Chance was taken.

[1:00:55] Alan Seales: Maybe.

[1:00:56] Heather Vickery: Maybe. I just more fun to throw you under the bus.

[1:00:58] Alan Seales: No, I'm kidding.

[1:01:00] Heather Vickery: That's us.

[1:01:01] Alan Seales: That's us and on YouTube. And we would love to have you subscribe and follow us on YouTube or wherever you're enjoying your podcasts. We also want to hear from you. We want to hear about the intentional risks you're taking. We want to hear about what you love about the episodes. Do you have any suggestions for guests that you think we should interview? All that good stuff. You can send us DMs. You can send us an email. We would love to connect with you.

[1:01:24] Heather Vickery: Folks, you have been listening to this really special, wonderful crossover episode between Was It Chance? And the Theatre Podcast. I'm Heather Vickery.

[1:01:28] Alan Seales: And I'm Alan Seales. I'll talk to you guys soon.

[1:01:30] Heather Vickery: Bye, bye, bye, bye.

[1:01:32] Alan Seales: Bye.

[1:01:34] Heather Vickery: Bye, bye, bye.

[1:01:35] Alan Seales: Take a deep breath. Make the world a little colorful.