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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast, intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. This episode is with Keith Sherman, who is a publicist who's been in the Broadway and entertainment industry at large for over 30 years now, and he's got a small team of four that make up his firm. Like so many others in his field of work, his livelihood has been ripped out from under him due to the global pandemic. We had an interesting chat kind of about how all of this has affected his work, has affected Broadway, has affected his livelihood, and he's just incredibly optimistic through all of this. We both hypothesized about how Broadway is going to reopen, and yes, we both completely feel it will.

We talk about how being a press agent has changed over his 30 years in business, especially as social media crept into the game and become a major player. Even though he's just lived through a COVID-19 diagnosis himself and had to furlough all of his staff, he's amazingly positive still and taking this opportunity to learn more about himself, try some new things he's never previously had the opportunity to try, and we actually just had a really great casual conversation. He told me more about what a press agent does and why he got into it, and it's still one of those careers that I think more people need to know about because I've said it before, I'll say it again, someone once told me, if I knew being a publicist for theater and Broadway was a thing, I wouldn't do what I'm doing now.

So I'm trying to bring this story to you because it's actually really nice to know that this kind of thing is out there and it exists. So before we get into it, as always, please visit me online at thetheaterpodcast.com. You can visit me on the Broadway Podcast Network at bpn.fm slash ttp. Find me on social media, theater underscore podcast. Find me on Facebook at slash official theater podcast. Please leave a rating, leave a review, show your support at thetheaterpodcast.com slash Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N. And now, everybody, please enjoy this episode with Keith Sherman. Here you go. One, two, three.

[2:17] Alan Seales: My guest today operates Keith Sherman and Associates, a Times Square public relations firm founded in 1989. And recently, he tested positive for COVID-19, which I actually think is a great place to start this conversation considering that we are chatting remotely over the internet in the midst of this pandemic. Keith Sherman, welcome to The Theatre Podcast.

[2:37] Keith Sherman: Hello, Alan. Thank you so much for having me.

[2:40] Alan Seales: No problem. So you're okay, right? Like you're feeling all right?

[2:44] Keith Sherman: I am truly blessed. I've come out of it. My husband is the medical director for two nursing homes and a patient in one of his facilities had it. The Department of Health came in the next day and tested the staff. Six people were positive, including my other half, and we share everything. So he brought it home to me. But fortunately, we had very mild cases. We didn't have trouble breathing. The fever, the cough, the night sweats, the chills, that lasted for several days. And then the fever lasted for almost a week or more, and then it slowly just went away. And I'm hopeful that I have the antibodies. I can't wait till I can get that test and maybe donate some of my plasma if that could be of help to others.

[3:36] Alan Seales: I'm glad that you're feeling better and you're able to focus again on life and living and your career. But your career, strangely, is on pause more or less. I mean, is that safe to say? Because you run a PR firm for the entertainment industry in which right now nothing is happening.

[3:57] Keith Sherman: Very much so. Everything is on hold. We sent out a press release last week for the Brett and Paul Foundation, which announced grants to writers whose theatrical productions were canceled of a lot of money. But there's nothing really right now to promote. I'm talking with some of my clients about planning for the future, but the future at the moment for all of us is so uncertain. So a lot of ideas are going back and forth, but there's not a lot of concrete action that's being taken right now.

[4:32] Alan Seales: Well, what are you doing? I mean, what are you doing? Because as someone whose livelihood relies on the ebb and flow of Broadway specifically and entertainment in general and whatnot, with everything shut down, I've talked to people that on both ends of the spectrum range from just working hard, buckling down, producing content, getting online, doing Instagram Live and YouTube Live. And Christina Alabado launched her YouTube channel, something she's wanted to do and never had time for until now. And then I talked to other people who literally are like, I'm depressed. I can't get out of bed. I feel hopeless. I mean, there's so much going on right now. And as someone whose career sort of relies on this, how are you feeling?

[5:21] Keith Sherman: Well, first of all, I feel great. I'm an optimist. I am never bored in life. I have so many interests and I bounce between all of them. I don't know where on that spectrum I feel I fall, but I'll tell you, I'm using this. I've never had this kind of free time in my entire professional life before. And on one hand, it's horrific what our society is going. I can't control that. But for me personally, I'm sleeping longer than I've ever slept before. I'm cooking. I made a pecan pie, a raspberry shortcake and some brownies. My husband, as I said, runs two nursing homes. He is on the front lines and he has it really, really hard right now. So I'm trying to take care of him. I'm talking morning, noon and night with colleagues and clients and friends, and we're supporting each other.

And we're talking about the moment and we're talking about the what ifs and planning. I'm organizing my house. I'm throwing away crap from years ago. I'm reading. I have a second business. I run an art gallery. I'm spending time trying to move that along. From my perspective, there is so much to do, but none of it has to do with my professional life. PR, I'm certainly not making any money right now. I've been in business for 30 years. I've had, God, I've been lucky. We're a staff of four. One person has been with me for 19 years, another for 18, and another for 11. And I'm really proud of that. I've had to furlough them. I don't have any income. And I don't know when we're coming back, but we're talking once or twice a week as a staff, as an office.

And it veers from the personal to the professional and back again. And I think what this pandemic is showing us as a society is really how connected we are with each other and the whole concept of social distancing. The theater is about a lot of people in a small room, elbow to elbow, experiencing a moment. At this time in our society, in our lives, that's forbidden. We cannot do that. So, the very essence of what the theater represents is kind of against the law right now. Isn't that odd?

[8:09] Alan Seales: Yeah, it's for the greater good and completely understandable. Because if we do get together, then there's this risk of spreading this horrible disease or virus. But here's the optimism, Keith. Here's the optimism of centuries to ancient Greek and ancient Roman times. I mean, the beginning of organized religion. People gathering in a room, listening to someone smarter than they are. That's the beginning and the essence of theater. I did a little bit of research. I found out that there was something called the bubonic plague in the early 1600s. Of course.

[8:54] Keith Sherman: Exactly. Shakespeare's Globe Theater, which was presenting King Lear, I believe I'm referring to the original production. Because of this, I don't know if it was a pandemic, an epidemic, but because of this plague, the theater had to close and performances of King Lear were canceled. You fast forward several hundred years and we're not in a dissimilar position in our world. I think the theater will survive. I think it will come back. But I think it will come back in a different form. For example, from a business perspective, the theater works on a very tight margin, save for the very few, very, very successful commercial Broadway productions and tours. But when we come back, we have to embrace social distancing in the house where we have to seat people six feet apart.

So if producers and theater owners need to cut by a third or a half, what does that do to the bottom line, which is a razor thin margin to begin with? What does that mean for theaters? With the stock market in the toilet right now, are funders going to support not-for-profit arts organizations? I mean, these are all valid questions, but in truth, there's no answers to any of that at the moment. Just know that to come back, we don't know when and we don't know how. And I think it's important for us to accept life in the gray. It's not black and white at the moment. It's not going to be black and white for a while. It's gray. And I think if we can accept that, we'll be a lot less stressed out.

[10:49] Alan Seales: Oh, I totally agree that people in general need to not stress about what they can't control and worry about what they can. And in terms of worrying about what you can, what you can control right now is following the guidance and in some cases, the law of social distancing. Here in New York, Governor Cuomo is saying you should always go out with a mask on. That's recommended social distancing six feet apart. I still walk down. I take a walk outside every now and then with my mask on and I try to walk around people and there's still some people who walk right up next to me to stop at a crosswalk and I move away because I'm like, what are you doing so close to me? So do what you can, but the rest of the time, like you said, I am an optimist while focusing on preventing the negative, if that makes sense.

I'm realistically like, I'm going, yeah, so I'm going to make sure that this and this, yeah, like, all right, so I am going. You know, it's okay to have your head in the clouds as long as your feet are on the ground.

[12:00] Keith Sherman: Right, right, right. So, you know, continue. I got my USB rig with my microphone here. I'm doing interviews remotely sitting in my guest room at my house here in Brooklyn. So yeah, like I'm with you, but I had no idea how, I mean, I know it will. I know Broadway will come back. I was going to say, I have no idea how theater will come back in, but what I mean is I know it will, but I don't know the method by which it will. And so like you were saying, it hadn't occurred to me that you would cut a house by a third and seat people six feet apart. What I was thinking was that, you know, if say tomorrow the restrictions are lifted, everything's fine, we've got a vaccine, everything's cool. I think it's going to be, okay, well not tomorrow. So let's say, what's the current, as we're recording this, the current guideline is that everything's shut down until June 7th, right?

[12:47] Keith Sherman: Correct, yeah.

[12:53] Alan Seales: So say June 7th comes, everything's fine, everything can reopen. I think realistically it's going to be September before shows start going up again because you're going to have to get the cast back in shape, bottom line anyway, because you've got shows like Moulin Rouge and things where, you know, dancing, choreography, the stamina the cast requires to maintain eight shows a week, they're losing that just by not doing the show.

[13:21] Keith Sherman: Well is there a world, Alan, when we come back incrementally? I mean maybe, you know, and again we'd have to do this in concert with the entire theater community, but maybe there's only five or six performances a week as opposed to eight because particularly for Broadway, the bulk of the audience is from out of town.

[13:38] Alan Seales: Absolutely.

[13:45] Keith Sherman: Are people coming to New York right now? Are people traveling anywhere in the next period, even when we're over the peak of this curve? I mean, the virus is still going to exist in smaller numbers and people are afraid.

[14:00] Alan Seales: Justify a Brusseau. That was more of my thought that I was thinking like October, September, October time frame because people, shows have to open and you don't want to open everything at once because that's just going to dilute the pool and you want to sell tickets. So I think this is going to be a concerted effort, like maybe the Broadway League has to step in and say, all right, so the first thing to open is Hamilton. With that we know we'll sell. Or maybe, I mean, maybe not actually. Now that I've said it, maybe they take a show that's less expensive to open, right? What if all four starts first? What if theaters with a hundred seats?

[14:34] Alan Seales: What about restaurants? Do restaurateurs need to take out half their tables? That's what somebody else said to me is that before Broadway can open. Yeah, yeah, so someone said to me the other day, I forgot about this, that before Broadway can reopen, restaurants need to reopen because people need a place to go in and eat before and afterwards. Well, it's, you know, if you can only do takeout, that's an enlightened perspective, but it's true. I mean, that's reality, and that's where the left hand has to talk to the right hand in terms of our government on different, you know, local, state, and federal levels, you know, working with different industries to reopen them.

[15:06] Keith Sherman: Right, right, yeah. Because we are all so interconnected. I know, and I mean, fortunately in New York here, the subway's still running, fortunately and unfortunately, in that, you know, there was something the other day saying that subway poles are responsible for spreading most of the virus in New York, but.

[15:22] Alan Seales: Oh, I didn't see that. That's crazy.

[15:24] Keith Sherman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, because that's where everybody puts their hands, right? Right. So, it makes sense, but you can't shut down the subway because our essential workers need to get to their jobs to keep the rest of every, I mean, I applaud the essential workers, and you know, seven o'clock every night here in New York, everyone goes out and on their stoops and their windows and their balconies or wherever, and they, you know, the big hooping and hollering and clapping, it's an incredible thing to still hear every single night. I read that Brian Stokes Mitchell is singing The Impossible Dream from his window every night at seven.

[15:57] Alan Seales: Isn't that a beautiful thing?

[15:59] Keith Sherman: Yeah, yeah, but I would love to be a fly on the wall in whatever room they are chatting about the strategy behind how to reopen Broadway, because it's kind of a chicken and egg, like you're saying, the smaller houses off-Broadway or whatnot, but what's gonna get more tourists back is going to be the Broadway shows. So, I don't know how I would do that. I have a distinct memory right after September 11, when Broadway was closed for two performances approximately, there was an event that took place in Times Square and Duffy Square where, you know, anyone who was in a Broadway show and a lot of celebrated New Yorkers got together and said, New York is open, come back to me, come to New York, come see your Broadway show, and, you know, there was this astonishing groundswell of energy and enthusiasm to let the world know that New York was open and in business and come celebrate, and I'm sure that something similar to that will happen again at the right time.

You know, when will that be? I don't know. I mean, when will our government, governments, allow us to promote tourism and coming back? It's a question mark. I hope it's soon. We all want it to be soon. We all want to resume our lives.

[17:34] Keith Sherman: Right, well, yeah, those of us, those of us in the entertainment business and in the theater business, yeah, this is our livelihood, and I've talked, I mean, you run your own press agency, and I've talked with other press agents and marketing agents, and I don't know anybody right now who's not furloughed.

[17:54] Alan Seales: Right. Because there's just nothing, there's nothing going on.

[17:57] Keith Sherman: Right, right. So, I mean, that kind of gets me into another, I guess, another question of mine, but, I mean, you've had, yeah, so Deadline.com ran a great article that you wrote the other day talking about, you know, your history in the theater and multiple decades running a PR firm, and you've, it's, you've had a great success. 300 plus shows. More recently, you did Be More Chill and We Will Rock You and Mike Berbiglia's show, and you actually had the Tony Awards for 18 years, too, and all four, it was you and a staff of four additional, right? So, five of you?

[18:45] Keith Sherman: Yeah, well, me plus three. Over the years, it's been a little bit more, you know, up and down, but, you know, I run a tight ship. Everyone carries their weight.

[18:54] Alan Seales: Right. So, at what point, I mean, I guess you, in the article, says that you dipped in your, you've dipped in your savings to keep things going, or, like, is there, is there anything that is still going? Like, what's happening right now in your world, in the PR world?

[19:12] Keith Sherman: Well, you know, very little. From an entertainment perspective, there are no shows on their feet right now. So, there's nothing to, I mean, certain are still up and running and thriving. Books are still coming out. Television is, you know, and digital content is, you know, expanding and zooming along, but live performance is non-existent right now. And that goes, that's true of concerts. That's true of events. I mean, anything, any kind of trade show that was going to be at the Javits Center, I mean, there's a hospital there now. There are no trade shows. I mean, in our, in our own lives, I mean, weddings and bar mitzvahs and graduations, funerals, they're on hold. It's, we're living in an unprecedented time.

So, there are no rules. There's, there's no basis of comparison in our contemporary culture. So, we're just, you know, we need to get comfortable living in the gray, as I said earlier, because there's just so much uncertainty. So, now it's time to think about your own future and to plan and to connect with ideas maybe that you haven't spoken to in a while. And ideas and talk about what it is and scheme and plan and dream about the future and when things will reopen and, and what you can, your role would be and how you can, if you're an actor, hopefully you're taking online classes and you're singing and dancing in your living room and you're maintaining your instrument and trying to be good and do better. And, you know, there's still that collaboration. It may not be face to face, it might be screen to screen, but it's vital that that continues.

[21:21] Alan Seales: Right. Yeah, I, I get that. And I guess that's what I've been trying to do to keep myself busy as well is, is say, all right, so when this comes back, you know, I'm laying the groundwork, right? So, when this comes back, we'll have this and this and this. And, and fortunately, you know, for, for me being a podcaster, as long as I have power and internet, everything's fine. I don't, I don't necessarily need lights, but, but power and internet.

[21:53] Keith Sherman: Alan, you, you extract people who are, you know, in the theater and working in different aspects. I mean, right now you're talking with me, a publicist, a press agent, but with people in the entire spectrum of the theater. I mean, look at the staff. Oh, and you're talking with all those different categories. And that's a wonderful thing.

[22:19] Alan Seales: I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, that, that's what I, that's what I love. I love, I love the behind the scenes. I love the, the stories about how people maintain success. Like that's, that's what's really important. So, you know, I appreciate, I appreciate you saying that.

[22:32] Keith Sherman: Well, the theater, you know, look, I mean, I've run for three decades and I was working for that. It's a tough business. Things aren't, aren't handed generally to anyone. You have to work your butt off for everything. And there are sacrifices and, you know, you, you need to work hard in our business. You need to show up. That's what the theater is about. It's that live being present, you know, showing up backstage, showing up at meetings, you know, talking with your producer and your manager, and just even sometimes when if the issues, just checking in with them, making sure things are okay, planning for the future. And right now we're going to be planning for a future that we're not sure exactly what it holds for our community.

[23:27] Alan Seales: Well, okay. So let me, I want to get back to that, but I want to take a step backwards to talk about what, what it is that, that you actually do, because someone told me once they said, if I knew being a publicist for theater was a career, I wouldn't have done what I'm doing. Like they didn't know that was a possibility. It was either like on stage or nothing. And I said, well, that's kind of, you know, it's kind of short sighted there. There's people that run the show, there's run the house, you know, everything. But, um, my, my specific, I guess we'll start with the beginning of what made you get into publicity? What is it that you did meaning before social media? And then how has, how have things changed in the last decade?

[24:11] Keith Sherman: Oh my God. There's a lot of questions in there. Um, I can start by saying that when I was eight years old, this nice Jewish boy from New Jersey who lived next to a Christian family for Christmas one year was given three LPs. Anyone remembers what that format was? One by Gary Lewis and the Playboys and two by a new group called the Supremes. And I fell in love with the Supremes. By the time I was 12 on Thursday afternoon, I was at my library mail to come in because variety had a column that traced nightclubs around the country and I could follow where the Supremes were playing. So once I read that page, I flipped the page and I started reading variety when I was 12 years old, waiting every Thursday with bated breath for the mail to come in and variety to come in.

In college, one of my roommates grew up in New Rochelle North of the city and his English fellow that founded the roundabout when it was under a supermarket on 26th street between eighth and ninth. Um, and I was basically an intern when I came home from school, you know, getting coffee, running errands, doing whatever needed to be doing, needed to be done. And one day the producer came up to me and said, what are you going to do when you graduate? I said, I guess I'll get a job. He said, how'd you like to be our marketing director? I said, sure. So that was my first job was the director of audience development for the roundabout on 26th street. And we also had another theater. It's now the SBA movie theater on 23rd between eighth and ninth.

And we did some amazing, amazing work in those two spaces. And I lasted there for a year. And then I found a job with the Broadway press agent. Um, my first show was called the crucifer of blood with Glenn Close and Paxton Whitehead. So Sherlock Holmes thriller at the original Helen Hayes theater, um, to make way for the Marriott marquee hotel. And then I just bounced around to different press offices. And it was, I found my calling really early on because I learned I had zero talent as an actor for most people that, you know, you talk about behind the scenes. Well, you know, as children, when we're all inspired, you know, we're watching film and television and we see the actors. That's all we ever say.

Some of us, you know, watch the credits and we learn about the other jobs and roles that exist on any kind of a legitimate theater production or a film or a television show. Um, and that's where most of us end up because there's simply aren't enough acting jobs, but that's also why acting is, is as competitive as it is. Um, but I just found my calling and I loved it from day one. Um, and I worked for many years for different press offices. And then at some point I decided I could build a better mousetrap. And so I formed my company in 1989 and I've, I've had a 30 year run so far and I love my work and I'm going to keep at it and I know we're going to come back better and stronger.

[27:30] Alan Seales: Well, okay. So you've got, you've got the same mentality that a lot of successful people did. Is it like, well now I know, now I know the basics and I can see how to improve on it. So I'm going to go off on my own and do this better. And you, and you have, and you did. Um, so then 20 years go by basically like the rise of social media, Facebook comes up in the last, you know, in the last 10 plus years and it's easy enough. It was easy enough, I assume to, to say, all right, so a good morning America, uh, live with Kelly and Regent or Kelly and Regis, Regis and Kelly at the time, but now it's, it's Kelly and Kelly and Ryan. Yeah. Um, so those are numbers. Those are national TV. Those are the big ones, right? That are good. But how do you, how do you make a distinction between what's important now when everybody has a social media channel, everybody's got a YouTube channel, everybody's got a podcast, how do you decide what to put in front of your clients?

[28:31] Keith Sherman: It's a great question. And you know, I think that's one of the reasons as long as I have, because the media landscape is forever shifting and what was true yesterday is no longer true tomorrow. So it's important to stay on top of trends. What's, what's working, what's not working, what's important, what isn't, what's impactful, what has a greater audience. And, uh, I'm very fond of telling a story that in the, uh, twenties and the thirties, New York City had three dozen

[29:06] Keith Sherman: At the 1939 World's Fair, something called television was introduced to the public, and a decade later there were three networks. The number of newspapers was cut in half, and as time has progressed, New York City right now is the only city in America that has four daily papers, if you count the Wall Street Journal, which I certainly do. Many cities in America don't even have a newspaper. So social media came in. Social media has given control to brands. If you consider a show as a brand, an actor can be considered to be their own brand. So social media has taken away the middleman and has allowed individual brands to talk directly to their constituents, without having to buy, say, an ad on television, or in a newspaper, or on the radio.

And that's been a substantial shift, and we're learning how to harness that power right now. How many likes on Facebook or follows on Instagram is an appearance on the Stephen Colbert show worth? I think what's important today is a mix of all of that. You need some traditional advertising, you need traditional PR, which is what I've been doing, you need social media, and you also need a range of promotions and marketing deals with various shows. So any show today, they have an ad agency, they have a press agent, they have a marketing agency, and they have marketing promotions. You can add on something else like corporate sponsorship, a corporate sponsorship executive. There are so many ways to reach the public right now, and the numbers of marketing operators, there's an unbelievable quantity of ways that a show can spend money to reach different publics. Absolutely.

[31:20] Keith Sherman: And all of these professionals, when we're working on a show, for example, we sit in a room and we talk about individually what we're doing and how that, if I get a booking on Good Morning America, does the show put an ad on that day for that show? And there's coordination with that. If they get a special deal on another show, maybe we make an extra effort to get some visibility on that program or that radio show or in that magazine that month. So that's where strategy comes in and understanding the bigger picture, not just the theater industry, but the whole entertainment industry. And the social promotion. Social media is just a part of it, but it's a part of it. And yeah, and it's like Instagram takeovers and Facebook Live broadcasts and, oh gosh, the legal challenges of what are you allowed to show from backstage?

And you're technically, like Equity says, you can't film backstage after a 30-minute call, right? But people are still going live on their Instagram, their personal Instagram feeds or whatever it is. This stuff, as an entertainment lawyer, I think I would just be pulling my hair out, but that's a separate conversation. Well, the rule, there's a lot of rules in place and a lot of the rules get broken on a regular basis. I am forever scratching my head on the parameters that the various unions set out because we want to comply with the rules. But sometimes they turn their phone on, start filming or start taking pictures and they post it, you know, from jail.

[33:11] Keith Sherman: Yeah, I guess, you know, find them or I don't know. Social media is kind of, you know, there are rules in place, there aren't a lot, but things keep shifting and things keep moving along, particularly now because there is no in-person and live and so much has gone on to the internet and Zoom meetings and digital downloads and, you know, streaming. I mean, it's a new world. It keeps getting reinvented. So you and your firm do mostly or is it all representative of brands as a whole, like a show or an event or something? Do you do any personal publicity?

[34:02] Keith Sherman: Sure. My view is if there's a story to be told that I think is relevant, that I could be successful with it and the person has done their shoulders, I'm interested, you know, which is why, you know, for three decades, I have been with Olympic skaters and gymnasts, you know, I mean, that's a far cry from the theater, but entertainment, you know, I mean, the skaters go out in costumes, there are lights on, there's music, and they are dancing, they are skating, they are performing, they are athletes, first and foremost, but there's a significant entertainment component to that. So we've handled dozens and dozens of national arena tours and television specials and books for a lot of skaters and gymnasts.

And I've got a lot of interests, as I said, I formed an art gallery a couple years ago as a second business. So lately, I've been taking on some fine art clients, some galleries and some art schools, and some museums. You know, it's a big world. And that's kind of why I'm never bored, because there's always something to do, you know, more ideas, a new way of looking at stuff, trying to expand my vision, not wanting to take things for granted.

[35:30] Alan Seales: Right, well, it's putting a lot of irons in the fire, so you can continue to work a little bit, grow and expand. And I'm always, I respect that, because I'm always in the mindset, probably not on purpose most of the time, but I get to where I am, like, I'll accomplish goal one, two or three. And then I said, Okay, now I'm here, what's next? And I don't stop. And, you know, much, much to the people around me, their chagrin of like, well, when are you going to sleep? I don't like I don't like to stop working. So I completely understand that mindset of just expanding and growing and learning and doing more because they're, they're life's too short in general, to to stop. But if you put all your eggs in one basket, I guess, you know, you might find yourself in a situation like this where there's nothing going on, you just use my, my favorite word, four letter word.

And it's my response to both success and failure. The word is next. So if if I'm involved with the project, and it just flops on its face, and you know, it's a terrible thing. I give myself a hug. And I say, What's next? And conversely, big success, you know, I found myself on the back. I is wonderful. I can't believe it too much. But what's next? How Prince was was well known for setting up a meeting with his creative team for the next show after all of his shows opened. So the morning after there was a production meeting about the next show. The reviews, success or failure? Next. That's gotten me through quite a bit.

[37:20] Keith Sherman: Yeah, well, we are going to get through this. Don't know when it will all be over. But of course, everyone's going to get through it. But looking back at your career, and we'll wrap this up in a second. But looking back at your career, I'm very curious as whether or not there's like a standout moment in your mind of, of like, holy crap, I am here on the red carpet of the Tony's or the red carpet of the Academy Awards, or I'm here at the Olympics or something where you just looked around and you stopped and you said, I can't believe I got here.

[38:04] Keith Sherman: That's a beautiful thought. I would say that moment for me right now is today. I'm a guy that lives in the present moments that you've just verbalized. I've been on a lot of red carpets and I pinch myself and I try never to take it for granted. But I fight really hard to stay in the moment and to be present and deal with life as it exists right now. And right now we're in. We're in, you know, a really insane time. One of the reasons, you know, I wrote that piece for deadline that I'm talking with you. I have an optimistic spirit. And I share that with a lot of people, a lot of people can be afraid of my energy and my enthusiasm. But I I'm really happy to share that with people right now because I'm hopeful that it can help make a difference with with some.

[39:56] Alan Seales: Yeah, well, I respect that a lot, actually. So I think it's I think it's very admirable. So if you listen to the podcast, of course, you know that I end every interview with three standard closing questions. The first one is what motivates you?

[40:13] Keith Sherman: What motivates me? I don't know. Why do I love chocolate cake? It's in my heart. It's in my DNA. It's something that I can't put into words. It's the thrill of theater for me from the very first show that I saw, which was 1776 from the very last row of the balcony. And when that curtain came down at the end and the lights. There was the Declaration of Independence and the 14 year old boy who was in that last row just felt this jolt of electricity go through his entire body. And I sat down, kind of sweating. And I said, what the hell was that? And how do I feel it again? And that just has propelled me for decades. I mean, it formed my basis for the love of the theater. So what motivates me is the thrill of that and the joy of discovering theater.

I recently saw that production of Medea at BAM. I was taken kicking and screaming to a thing. I don't need to see another production of Medea. I've probably seen it a dozen times with some really great actors. And I sat there absolutely transfixed, transformed. And my love of the theater just went through the roof once again, because it was an astonishing thing to behold at that moment, that production, excellence on stage. That propels me. That motivates me. That interests me. I love that.

[41:54] Alan Seales: So the second question is, what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now, starting out down a similar path?

[42:03] Keith Sherman: The advice that I would give to my younger self is check your ego at the door a little bit more and listen more and talk less. What was the second part? And what advice would you give to people starting out down a similar path? I think, you know, a commitment and and a strong work ethic. And you have to love what you're doing. Love it. Stop it and find something that you do love. Because I don't consider what I'm doing work. I mean, I wake up in the morning, just ready to go in and ready to figure things out and talk to myself and talk to my clients and come up with ideas. You know, I sit through morning blogs and websites and newspapers and magazines and I talk to people and I get inspired. You know, that's how we should all live in life. And I feel blessed that I'm in a position to live that way. But to a degree also, I've created that for myself. You know, I didn't settle for something that was less than that.

[43:00] Alan Seales: All right. All right. You can get me at thetheaterpodcast.com. Show your support at thetheaterpodcast.com. Find me on Instagram and Twitter at theater underscore podcast. Please leave a rating and a review wherever you are listening. This is edited by Matthew Hendershot. And thank you to Jukebox the Ghost for the intro and outro music. And Keith Sherman, thank you so much for this wonderful interview. And I am so glad that you are happy and healthy.

[43:26] Keith Sherman: Thank you, Alan. What a pleasure it's been to talk to you today.

[43:29] Alan Seales: Right. OK, so final question. Hardest one. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[43:38] Keith Sherman: I would want to have a moment in 1976 again, over and over again. I don't know if that's realistic, but I guess that's the answer.

[43:49] Alan Seales: There you go. So where can we find you on social media?

[43:52] Keith Sherman: Oh, I'm on everything, you know, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, you know, Keith Sherman.