The Spark File Podcast: Town Hall Spark Sessions #1 Transcript

Laura Camien:

Welcome to the Town Hall Spark Sessions. I'm Laura Camien.

Susan Blackwell:

And I'm Susan Blackwell. We are creativity coaches at the Spark File, where we help people fear less and create more.

Laura Camien:

As creatives ourselves, we are obsessed with one of the most dynamic cultural centers in New York City: The Town Hall.

Susan Blackwell:

For over a century, The Town Hall has been a champion for artistry and advocacy, amplifying the voices of icons and emerging artists alike.

Laura Camien:

And now the Spark File and the Town Hall have joined forces to elevate and celebrate artists who are gracing the stage at Town Hall and using their creativity to fight for the powers of good.

Susan Blackwell:

So, without further ado, let's get into the Town Hall Spark Sessions. And ooh, Laura Camien, welcome to the first episode of the Town Hall Spark Sessions. I have got a great spark to kick it off in the form of Lin-Manuel Miranda.

Laura Camien:

I'm so excited.

Susan Blackwell:

As you well know, Laura, Lin is being honored at the upcoming “Spring Shout” at the Town Hall on May 19th, and you know that because you have been in it!

Laura Camien:

I have been working on this show and I'm so excited because all of it benefits the incredible work of Town Hall. But the night of the “Spring Shout” itself that honors Lin-Manuel is going to be such an incredible combination of performances you would never expect, performances you've never seen, combinations and collaborations that are going to just surprise and delight. It's kind of one of those One-Night-Only in New York City and if you missed it, you missed it and you missed it and you are kicking yourself for that.

Susan Blackwell:

I'm excited. So this conversation with Lin we talk about—I didn't spoil it, no spoilers.

Laura Camien:

You didn't tell him anything, Suze?

Susan Blackwell:

No!

Laura Camien:

Because he doesn't know. He doesn't know what he's about to see on stage.

Susan Blackwell:

He really, really doesn't know, which is so fun. Oh, I'm so excited. And we also go deep on the subject of creativity and I have to say I was very inspired by my conversation with Lin, and it really…When I left that conversation it made me want to create, and create, and create.

Laura Camien:

Oh, that's the best kind of conversation.

Susan Blackwell:

Yeah, it was a goodie, that's what it's all about.

Laura Camien:

Oh, I can't wait to hear it.

Susan Blackwell:

All right, then let's get into it with Lin-Manuel Miranda.

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Laura Camien:

Welcome, Lin-Manuel Miranda. Thank you so much for being our first guest on the Town Hall Spark Sessions

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

My pleasure.

Susan Blackwell:

We couldn't ask for a sparkier guest on the Town Hall Spark Sessions.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

My pleasure.

Susan Blackwell:

We couldn't ask for a sparkier creative to kick this rumpus off. I'm about to ask you five tight questions, but before I do, I want to ask you how do you identify creatively?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

You mean, like, how do I think of myself as a creative?

Susan Blackwell:

If somebody had been living in a cave for the last 10 years and walked up to you at a party and said “I just got out of a cave, my name is Jeremiah, what do you do?”

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Oh, okay, I would say “I write songs, and I make movies, and let's go to the nearest hospital and get you checked out, man!”

Susan Blackwell:

So thoughtful.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

A lot of stuff can happen in a cave in years.

Susan Blackwell:

Super considerate. So you write songs and you make movies. So tell us what you're doing at Town Hall. You're all up in a shenanigan at Town Hall.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

I am all up in a shenanigan, and, to be honest, I don't really know what to expect. Here's how I got involved in this particular shenanigan. The person in charge of Town Hall is a good friend of yours and mine, named Nevin Steinberg.

Susan Blackwell:

We love Nevin. My nickname for Nevin is Turtle-Pop. Do you have a nickname for Nevin?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Yes, I call him Natalie Steinberg, because that is his mother's name.

Speaker

Amazing, and he calls me Luz Miranda, because that is my mother's name.

Susan Blackwell:

Fantastic.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

And he is the sound designer on both In the Heights and Hamilton and I love working with him and his team, and he is now one of the folks in charge of Town Hall and he asked to honor me. And I believe in Town Hall and its mission as a New York public square and I believe in Nevin Steinberg. So I said, “Sure, pal, whatever you need.” And next thing I knew everyone I ever met seemed to be involved in this giant school assembly that I'm calling my 80th birthday, because it feels like a Sondheim gala, but I'm only 45 years old.

Susan Blackwell:

I know I've been sworn to so much secrecy around this, but here's what we can tell you: It's on May 19th, it's at the Town Hall, it's called “The Spring Shout,” and that's about it. That's all that you get to know. But how do you prepare for such a thing?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

I don’t know how one girds one’s tear ducts. I mean I was moved just to see how many folks I have worked with over the course of my career that said yes to giving up their Monday night, and probably more, because I know how involved these things can be. I was moved that Holli Campbell and Deanna Weiner, who are two people I've worked with a lot over the course of my career, had been put in charge of it, and when I heard they were in charge I was like, oh okay, these are two people who really know me very well. So I just got really excited to see what they're putting together.

Susan Blackwell:

I think it's going to be…I think it is going to be a blast and I'm excited to see it. I'm excited to see you seeing it. I think that's going to be really, really fun.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Yeah, I don't know what the setup is. I don't know if I'm at the equivalent of like a wedding sweetheart table, where everyone you know when they just have the table for the bride and the groom so everyone can see their reaction to everything. But I am, I'm really looking forward to it and it's funny because, like, when I heard the lineup, I started like I was like inviting my friends, being like I think this is going to be really special, but I don't know which of my friends is secretly involved and which isn't. Quiara will be like…wink, wink, okay, see you there, bud.

Susan Blackwell:

I think it's always interesting at these things like the Kennedy Center Honors, where you're watching your life flash in front of your eyes as you're being honored. There's a camera trained on you, at the same time, I think there's a good portion of it where your mind is just being blown by the honoring of it all. But then there's got to be times when you're like, what am I doing with my face right now?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Yeah, I'm sure I've been a part of a couple of those Kennedy Center things. The most recent one I did was for Billy Crystal, because I was the kind of kid who taped the Oscars and memorized Billy Crystal's musical monologues because I thought they were so hilarious and our friend Marc Shaiman was involved in the writing of a lot of those. And so when Billy was getting a Kennedy Center honor, Marc texted me and was like you owe this man, come with me, let's make a Billy Crystal Medley for Billy Crystal.

Susan Blackwell:

Amazing.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

So, I had the great joy of writing a tribute to him with Marc who wrote all of it. It's a wonderful night for Billy. But then the other part of it that was so essential was there's like five events before the actual honors: there's a breakfast, there's an event at the White House the night before where the president sort of chimes in, and I hid. I hid at a friend's house and it was worth it because when I came out, the look of surprise on Billy's face because I hadn't gone to anything all weekend so that I could genuinely be a surprise.

Susan Blackwell:

That's awesome.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Was like worth the whole mishigas.

Susan Blackwell:

That is awesome. I cannot wait to see who jumps out of the cake at this thing. I think it's going to be really, really fun.

Lin-Manuel Miranda::

I'm psyched.

Susan Blackwell:

Besides “The Spring Shout” on May 19th at Town Hall, what's sparking your creativity right now?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Oh, wow, I mean at the time of this recording, the Tony nominations for this year have just come out, just, like, the paint is drying on people's snubs and surprises articles, and it's been an incredible season. I think by May21 st or something, I read something that every Broadway theater will be full, will have an occupant and a production, which hasn't happened in decades.

Susan Blackwell:

Amazing.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

As someone for whom the pandemic is still a very recent memory, and are we ever coming back? Will people ever come to the theater again? Will people ever consent to gather in the dark to tell stories? The fact that we had 14 new musicals and 14 new plays is extraordinary. So I've just been seeing as much as I can. I, you know, I see shows when I have childcare, so I've been seeing as much as I can. I see shows when I have childcare, so I've been doing these two-show Wednesdays and that's been joyous and I enjoy some shows more than others, but I always find something that just really inspires me, or goes how the hell did they pull that off? So yeah, yeah. So I've just been really enjoying other people's work all month.

Susan Blackwell:

I couldn't agree with you more. I feel like I could see a high school production and find inspiration from that. It never fails. There's always something to be sparked by seeing things like that. I love that.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

After I finish talking to you, I'm getting on an Acela train to go oh, there's my car. No, I'm getting on an Acela train to DC, where there's a signature production of In the Heights, and I'm going with Quiara, my co-writer on that, because I just have heard nothing but wonderful things about this production. It's their last week, so it's my last chance.

Susan Blackwell:

Do they know you’re coming?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

I think whoever's in charge of the tickets knows I'm coming. I don't know if they've let the cast know.

Susan Blackwell:

I hope they haven’t. Oh, my God, I hope you, Billy Crystal, that cast, that is going to be fantastic, that is fantastic.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

But yeah, we're taking the train and coming right back tomorrow morning.

Susan Blackwell:

That is awesome. Tell me something real about your creative process.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Something real is that… Well, It's funny, I'm kind of…when it comes to songwriting, I'm revamping my process in a very real way because my dog of 13-and-a-half years passed away early this year.

Susan Blackwell:

I’m so sorry.

Lin-Manuel:

Thank you, and that I didn't even realize how much walking her was a part of my life and my creative life.

Susan Blackwell:

Yes, you've talked about that for years, walk Toby, and…

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Yes, I'll sit at the piano as long as I have to to get a loop of some music going, something that I think is interesting. Make the loop, I'll put it in my headphones and then I go walk Toby, until I have the words. And now I don't have a reason. And, man, you should have seen my first walk to write lyrics without my dog with me. It was “Quiet Uptown,” truly. Just (quoting his Lyrics) “If you see him in the street by himself talking to himself, have pity…”

Susan Blackwell:

Yeah.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

I mean, I was like, what the fuck do I do? I don't remember how to do this before you know… and it's funny because I've always prided myself on being someone who isn't superstitious about rituals. I don't like thinking that the sun has to be in a certain position and I need my lucky pencil. I always try to get any of that stuff out of my system because I want to be able to write anywhere and everywhere, and for the most part I do. But that's a ritual that snuck in because I just so love walking my dog, and anyone who writes who has a dog or a cat knows they're the ideal first audience. They just sit there and wait till you're done, you can pet them again, and it's like you know, it's lonely work and a pet makes that work a little less lonely, and so I'm figuring out how to be alone, writing again, which is pretty profound. I didn't realize how unalone that part of it made me.

Susan Blackwell:

Is Toby 2, on the horizon.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

I think I'm going to wear black all year like an Italian widow and just because, yeah, no, I'm just getting used to it. I think if my kids get to a point where they're old enough, and to help assume responsibility, that would be a conversation. But that was like a freak…Toby found us. We were on vacation. She knew my wife was the one to convince, went up to her and melted her heart. So, you know, stories like that don't happen very often in life.

Susan Blackwell:

Yeah, Tobio is Spanish for…?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Ankle, ankle. Yeah, because she nipped my wife's ankle. That's how we met her. She was like come here, I'm really cute, take me home.

Susan Blackwell:

Pour a little out for Toby.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Oh, my God.

Susan Blackwell:

Yeah, that's a big transition in your creative process, Pulling the lens back and looking at the wider world as a creative, how are you navigating this moment in time?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Oh man, you know it's such a scary time and you could have said that sentence anytime in the past nine years, but it is, and so I think that you know… I think a big part of how I keep working is I try to stay connected to the part of me that wanted to do this in the first place.

Susan Blackwell:

Yeah.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

I think a part of a writer's job is to keep the, the, the walkie talkie channel open to who you were at and and and years old. Those are the folks I check in with on my decisions on whether to take something on. You know it's like would 16- year-old me freak out at this opportunity? Has 25-year-old me been dying to get this off their chest? And this is the way to do it. And so I think that's a big part of it, and I think if you can really check in with who you are and what's aching to come out and what's, I think the world and the state of it just becomes another filter, because you're making your stuff in real time and that stuff can't help but seep in. I look back on the songs for Encanto, most of which I wrote while sort of staying home in the middle of the pandemic, in lockdown with my in-laws, my brother-in-law, my wife and my children. And there is, again, that was not the assignment, but there's an undercurrent in Luisa's song of how do I keep my family safe. There's an undercurrent in “We Don't Talk About Bruno,” of we're driving each other a little crazy and I don't know what I'm allowed to talk about in front of your mother, the conversations we have together as a family and then the side conversations that don't happen at dinner. All of that stuff was in the material, but I think there's a little extra sauce, because that's really where I was. That's where I was in my life.

Susan Blackwell:

Yeah, so with the things that are happening now, it's sort of the things that are filtering into the groundwater.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Yeah, and I think that it's been interesting with “Warriors,” which is the latest batch of songs I released that I co-wrote with Eisa Davis, and when we saw that movie when I was way too young to see it and didn't know why it kept nagging at me. And now, looking back at the songs, I was like these are about resilience, these are about survival, these are about how we survive in the world and whether we're going to do it together or we're going to strike out and try to do it on our own. We're going to do it together or we're going to strike out and try to do it on our own. The thesis of it is the moment you try to strike out on your own, when the world is against you, you're done, and doing it together is the only way you're going to get to the other side of it.

Susan Blackwell:

Love it, and love the great Eisa Davis, who is an upcoming guest on this very podcast.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Oh wow, she is the absolute best.

Susan Blackwell:

The best, the best. Final question: You work really hard. You create so much, you're so committed to your creativity. What’s it all for?

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Phew. What's it all for? I mean, that can change on the day, as I'm writing it. I think I have a… I have a distinct memory of being very young, like not-even-a-teenager-young and thinking if I don't get these thoughts out of my head, no one's ever going to hear them. And an urgency of that. And I still feel very connected to this impulse I had when I was really young. I remember walking home by myself from the subway station and looking up at the buildings and being like and you get this..and there's a little solipsism involved, but it's a little like has anyone in the world seen this building from this angle the way I am seeing it? And it's my job to get it, and give it to other people and this very specific vantage point. And when you get a good idea for a song, when you get a good idea for a movie or a painting or the…I feel like my whole life has been training to chase that urge, because it dies if you don't get it out. And so it's both a terrible urgency to write what's in me, to write, whether that is a collaboration or stuff I've been carrying around like luggage all my life and the patience to iterate those things I'm making so that the first draft is not what I share with the world. It's like once you spit out the clay, you have to mold the clay, and that's like staying connected to the impulse while perfecting what you've made so that the channel is clear between what you're feeling and what you want the audience to feel.

Susan Blackwell:

I love that, and I love you.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

I love you, too.

Susan Blackwell:

And I'm so thankful for your time, and now we got to get you to your car friend. I'm so excited to see you on May 19th at the spring shout, baby.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Oh, so you're going to be there. Okay, that's another thing I know which is great.

Susan Blackwell:

I'll be there on May 19th watching you, watching your life.

Lin-Manuel Miranda:

Singing Watching me, watching you!

Susan Blackwell:

Thank you so much to our guest Lin-Manuel Miranda: for joining us for the Town Hall Spark Sessions, and thanks to the team at The Town Hall who make all of this possible.

Laura Camien:

The Town Hall, and this episode of the Town Hall Spark Sessions, were made on the lands of the Lenape people.

Susan Blackwell:

If you'd like to learn more about the Spark File, creativity coaching and how we can support you as you clarify and accomplish your creative goals, visit thesparkfile. com and you can follow us on socials @ thesparkfile .

Laura Camien:

To learn more about The Town Hall and their exciting upcoming events, including the “Spring Shout” honoring Lin-Manuel Miranda on May 19th, go to thetownhall. org, Follow them @townhallnyc, and visit them at 123 West 43rd Street in the heart of New York City. It's all happening at The Town Hall.

Susan Blackwell:

If something you heard today inspired you to use your creativity for the powers of good, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door. It's your turn to take that spark and fan it into a flame.

Laura Camien:

We're going to wrap the show with a time machine trip to Town Hall. This is the Town Hall Ensemble recorded live at the Town Hall on October 22, 2017 .

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