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[0:00] Joel Crump: Hey you guys, today I'm here with Ryan McCartan. We're here for another episode of Broadway Time at Carmine's.

[0:10] Joel Crump: To start off, what has it been like joining the cast of The Great Gatsby? I read somewhere that you wanted to be an English teacher for a minute.

[0:16] Ryan McCartan: I did, yeah.

[0:17] Joel Crump: So, I'm sure that this is like feeding the English teacher inside you.

[0:21] Ryan McCartan: Oh, absolutely. And by the way, like two or three weeks ago, my English teacher who taught me The Great Gatsby was able to come see me in this show. I had her backstage. We cried. It was very emotional and very touching. Yeah, I went to school for like 60 days because I had, college I mean, I had really convinced myself that being in the arts is impractical. And so, I was going to go be an English teacher and I promptly decided that I would rather fail trying at something I love than succeed at trying something I hate. So, I dropped out of college and pursued this, which I'm very grateful for. That being said though, you know, my father was a high school principal. Three or four of his brothers are in education. My grandfather was in education. So, education is very important in my family and I loved school. I loved English and specifically, I loved The Great Gatsby.

[1:25] Joel Crump: Really?

[1:26] Ryan McCartan: That unit, the book, you know, I remember my paper. It was all about the green light. I thought it represented. And when I saw that they were turning it into a musical, I just thought, you know, oh, what a fantastic idea. Good for them. You know, nowhere on my radar was it a possibility that I would be a part of it in any capacity, certainly not as Jay Gatsby himself. And being part of it has been a dream.

[1:55] Joel Crump: Yeah. So, what was it like when you found out that you could possibly be playing this role? Like, what was the audition process like and then what was it like when you were offered the role? What was that reaction like for you?

[2:04] Ryan McCartan: So, we got a call kind of out of the blue that I had kind of been approved. I believe one or two of the producers had seen me in an audition for something else that I was wrong for but thought, wait a minute, that could be our next Gatsby.

[2:24] Joel Crump: Really?

[2:25] Ryan McCartan: And so, the call was sort of something along the lines of like, we want to meet to make sure that we all gel, which I have enormous respect for. I would so much rather have a meeting before a straight offer because if you just offer it to someone and then they turn out to not be the best, then you're stuck with them. So, I was really glad that they wanted to gel with me and I wanted to gel with them. I had huge respect for that.

[2:46] Joel Crump: Right.

[2:47] Ryan McCartan: But that's what it was. It was a meeting and contingent on the meeting going well, it was an offer. And I first asked my agent if it was a mistake. I was like, me? I don't know. I didn't see it for myself. I mean, I think Jay Gatsby, the fictional character, and Jeremy Jordan, the actual man, are both so iconic and despite what some mean TikTok comments may say, I don't walk around thinking of myself that iconic all the time. I actually am very insecure. And so, I don't know. I was like, there's no way. There's no way. And then I started really diving into the material and doubled down on the fact that there was no way because I was like, I can't sing this. And then I saw the show and I saw Jeremy walk up onto that platform and I saw it roll down during passes catching up to me and I was like, oh shoot, I have to.

[3:46] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[3:48] Ryan McCartan: And so, you know, it was a lot of come to Jesus moments with my voice coach and working very closely and collaboratively to their credit with the directing staff to just to make sure that we were doing it smart and effective and my way. And I'm eternally grateful that there was so much permission for me to step into this position without having to evoke any sort of pantomime that like, you know, they didn't want a Jeremy Jordan impression. They didn't want a Leonardo DiCaprio impression. It could be a living, breathing man with my opinions and sensibilities woven into the tapestry of who we ended up creating to be my Gatsby. And as I say, you know, I'm eternally grateful that that was the permission that was granted to me because I think all of the insecurity that I was feeling about stepping into it vanished when I was told so insistently that you get to do it your way.

[4:58] Joel Crump: Yeah. I must say, and this might sound a little crazy, Ryan, I've seen The Great Gatsby, I think seven times now, which was not on purpose. Like, I think you see a show once or twice, enough. Sure. But one of my friends is obsessed. And so we found our way back to the Broadway theater many times. Yeah. And I love your interpretation of Jay Gatsby. It's not what was done before. You kind of found your own thing. And that was really enjoyable. What was it like finding that for yourself? I mean, the way you sing the songs are completely different. And it was really nice to see that. What was that like for you finding that for yourself?

[5:33] Ryan McCartan: Well, I guess I will say, you know, I would love to take credit for it, but I don't think I deserve any because top to bottom, the creative team, you know, whether it's Jason Howland, the composer, being very insistent on, no, no, no, no. Yes, I know that I wrote it and I know that the album sounds like this, but what feels good to you? Let's change things. And to his credit, he did that with me. He did that with Sarah Hyland when she stepped in as Daisy. He did that with Linady when she stepped in as Myrtle. Aisha when she stepped in as... I mean, I've seen Jason change the score for different performers every single time a different performer has shown up. And he did it in London with that cast and I believe he was doing it in Korea now.

And so, you know, whether it's the director's sort of team making sure that dramaturgically it's specific to me and comfortable for me, the way that I get to sing the show, I'm given permission from the composer who is saying in real time, it's okay if you do it this way, you know, what feels good to you? So that authenticity, I would love to take credit for it. You know, I would love to tell you I went into the room and I said, it's my way or the highway, but I didn't. I walked into the room and they said, it's your way or the highway. You know, they were insistent upon giving me that permission. And so, you know, I think my whatever successes my sort of version of Gatsby accomplishes artistically, I think a lot of those, the credit is owed to the creative team of this process. They are not paint by numbers at all. They're very, very generous that way.

[7:13] Joel Crump: Whoa, this is, who's going to eat this? It's not just us.

[7:22] Ryan McCartan: I fear you could feed the whole cast of The Great Gatsby with.

[7:25] Joel Crump: I guess I'm taking boxes. This is incredible. Oh my God. It's nuts. It's always a ton of food, girl. I'm going to be bloated.

[7:34] Ryan McCartan: Oh yeah.

[7:35] Joel Crump: There's a big trend of like girlfriends and boyfriends trying to match each other's pace while they're eating.

[7:47] Ryan McCartan: I think so, yeah.

[7:48] Joel Crump: You see this trend?

[7:50] Ryan McCartan: Yeah.

[7:51] Joel Crump: I just thought it was so, the like pressure of like, oh, okay, they've eaten that much. I have to eat this much.

[7:55] Ryan McCartan: Yeah, exactly.

[7:56] Joel Crump: So Ryan, what I think is really cool and like, I have to say for me at least, like obviously I saw you on the Disney channel growing up. I was always like, oh, it's Ryan McCartan. It's Diggy, right? And then as you flowed more into Broadway, I was like, wait, is this what he does really? And then I had a moment recently when I was just like doing research on you. You started when you were seven. You were a Disney kid, a Jimmy's kid. Then you did Broadway, you did film TV. I mean, you've done so much already in life. Like how do you, how does, how does that feel? Because I mean, you've been doing it for forever. How does it feel now to be, to have done a few Broadway shows and like really have dipped your toe in everything?

[8:35] Ryan McCartan: Yeah. I mean, like it, I'm, I'm 32 and I started when I was seven. So I can say to a lot of people, probably including you, like I've been doing this longer than you've been alive. And that feels like something old people say. And so I think I've, I have to simultaneously be proud of the breadth of my career and also like acknowledge that I'm old now, but older. But yeah, I mean, I have been in this for a long time and I'm, I'm, I'm grateful. I mean, immensely grateful that I've been able to keep myself floating and, and, and with very few exceptions have art be the thing that has paid every single bill in my life. It's, it's really special to your point to be able to experience so many different sects of performing, you know, that, you know, I, I, I had a YouTube channel.

I was a Twitch streamer. I, you know, have done like brand deals on Instagram and, and TikTok. I've been on Broadway. I've done really exciting regional gigs at the Guthrie and the Lyric Opera, um, TV, film, independent movies, studio, like, like all, all different types of things. And, and, and, you know, what that has the, the, the, I guess what I'm trying to say is the more sort of surface area you get to explore, the more you realize you want to keep pushing the edges. So I'm looking at it being like, okay, I've never done like a big voiceover thing. So I really want to dive into that space. You know, I've, I've, I've produced and released records, but like, I still feel like, you know, uh, touring kind of a cabaret act and making a live album.

I mean, there are a lot of, there are a lot of different things still that I haven't been able to explore. And I think that's really one of the most exciting things about the arts is how broad of a net you can really cast if you're hungry enough and no pun intended. And, um, the more you do it, the more you learn how much there is to do because you're constantly surrounded by other artists who are equally as hungry and have access to, have had access to so many different opportunities you never would have even thought of that, that may then makes you curious and then feeds that hunger. Um, so you know, it's been, it's been an incredible career. I, I thank my lucky stars every day for how unique it's been in the sense that it has really been quite diverse and, and it makes me crave that artistic diversity all the more.

[11:41] Joel Crump: Yeah, absolutely. So like other than Halloween candy when you're seven years old, what, what, what fuels, what was fueled your career, right? You've done all these different things. What has fueled that passion for the arts other than the candy when you were seven?

[11:56] Ryan McCartan: You know, I think that's, I love that you know that story. I, I, a lot of colleagues of mine say that they hate watching themselves and I love watching myself, not because I think I'm good, but because I am exposed to all of the ways that I could have done better. I, I, I love being able to watch an old episode of Liv and Maddie or watch back the Rocky Horror Picture Show or watch the illegal bootlegs you're not supposed to be taking of the great Gatsby. Which we see. Everybody sees. And, and I watch them because it's, it's, it's lovely to sort of have that, okay, you know, I try not to be too self-judgmental, but okay, this is where I am right now and I see evidence of lessons that I've learned that makes me very proud and I see areas of opportunity for me to expand.

And I think, I think one of my favorite things, albeit it's quite frustrating, but one of my favorite things about the arts is that they are impossible to master. So right, right as you start to get a handle on A, B and C, you expose X, Y, and Z as totally new areas for you to improve. And I think, I think.

[13:16] Ryan McCartan: Being better than last time has always been the motivating force to participate in art next time.

[13:25] Joel Crump: Absolutely. I love that.

[13:27] Ryan McCartan: No. Well this is just staring at us. What I think I love most about The Great Gatsby is that obviously we have the Gatsby story but also the Broadway spectacle. What is it like taking that classic literature and then adding all things amazing about Broadway to it for you?

[13:44] Ryan McCartan: Yeah, well again, I mean, that's something I would love to take credit for but I don't deserve any. The creative team and original cast, I believe, was solely responsible for what it actually took to conceptualize and actualize what it means to turn a book into a Broadway musical and not just any Broadway musical because it is like that classic, glitzy, glammy, modern Broadway musical. And what I will freely admit is that replacing, I just got to enjoy the fruits of labor that I didn't participate in. I mean, it was already set for me. And obviously, Scoreboard, the show does so well, set very well for me. As far as what I have to think about with the character, taking this character out of a book but also for a lot of people taking a character out of a movie because I think there aren't a lot of people who read The Great Gatsby freely.

You know, it's like required reading in school. And a lot of people, they were forced to read it in English class and then still actually really ended up liking it and that's great. But still, you know, it's a lesson. It's not like I'm picking up Twilight, you know, for fun. So I think a lot of people actually have more of a relationship with, I feel like I'm spitting food everywhere. I feel like there's food in my teeth. I feel like there's more of a relationship that people have with Gatsby from the movie. And so it's like, okay, this character exists in a book but maybe became a little bit more tangible through movies but now here I am doing it live on stage in a completely separate medium.

And the two sort of big things that I thought about in terms of sort of like tools that I could exploit to make that a little bit easier. One was, you know, I could try to sort of become who, not even who I believe Jay Gatsby is but who I think the audience wants to see Jay Gatsby as. Or I could take the parameters of who this man is and try to make him as much like me as I can. In other words, make it as authentically human as I can given the circumstances that he is a larger than life character as it is in a larger than life medium like theater. And that I think made my job a lot easier because I was already given so much permission to do it so individually that following that mandate from the creative team and that impulse that I had made what would have been a really big bite a lot more manageable.

[17:15] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[17:16] Ryan McCartan: They gave you all this.

[17:17] Joel Crump: Correct.

[17:18] Ryan McCartan: And we had this. We had this. Yeah, exactly. Then I think, you know, you think of who Jay Gatsby is in the context of the musical itself and there's something really interesting that happens because in the book specifically and I think also in the movies, although I don't know that for sure, but in the book specifically Gatsby only exists through Nick's narration. So we never see him alone. And in the musical we see him alone I think four times. And that is a brand new experience of who this man is because it is a performance when Nick is in the room or when he's at one of his parties or it's even a performance for Daisy the person with whom he should be the most intimate and the most vulnerable.

There's still a performative aspect to him because he feels like he has to be something for her. But when he's truly alone, you know, the deep insecurity of who this man is and obviously is gets to come through. And as I said at the beginning of this interview, insecurity is something that I can tap into very easily because I'm a pretty insecure guy. And so that was another really exploitable tool to sort of be like, okay, I could think of this in a really big way or I could zoom in on the bite-sized pieces that are far more manageable and make him I think far more human. And ultimately I think the most universal experiences as someone who is watching theater are experiences that are unique, human, and individual.

And once I started focusing on that, all of the pressure of this is a book, this is a movie, Leonardo DiCaprio, you know, all of that melted away and then it was just listening to what was happening in front of me, reacting accordingly, and really exploiting and sinking into those moments where I got to be alone.

[19:30] Joel Crump: Yeah, I love that. Now, I love all the different themes like American Dream and all that, but what I really love is that it takes place in New York, you're in New York, you've worked in New York for a long time. What is it like doing a story about New York in New York?

[19:41] Ryan McCartan: Oh, it's amazing. I mean, there's nothing better than a New York love letter. I mean, whether it's this musical, I shot an independent film last spring, it all took place in New York, it was very much about New York. I love New York stories, and there's something that's really infectious about doing something in a place it's about, which I think maybe sounds a little like duh, but listening to them talk about going up to Sugar Hill and being like, oh, I've been there, and coming into the city to go to the plaza and being like, I know where they are right now. This is tangible, this is actual. We have a cast member who lives very close to what the geographical East Egg, West Egg sort of Long Island Bay would actually be in real life, and went there for a beach day and just sort of had a moment of like, wow, here we are. You know, that's just an extra layer on what is already a fantastic cake.

[21:01] Joel Crump: I think all interviews should take place over food, right? It's like an incentive, like we'll talk to you, and we'll feed you.

[21:11] Ryan McCartan: It's a give and take. Talking and eating, those are my two favorite things, right? So for you Ryan, what has been the most surprising or rewarding thing about doing The Great Gatsby on Broadway?

[21:21] Ryan McCartan: I think that because I had such a deep reservation to even do this role in the first place, based solely on my own lack of faith in myself, if we're being honest, a perpetual source of pride and surprise is getting done with a hard week and being like, oh my god, I just did that. I'm five months into my contract, I've done the show now probably at least 200 times, and some things have gotten easier in ways, some things have actually gotten harder in ways because the more that I learn about who he is, and the more that I become close with my castmates, and the more that this becomes habitual, it almost becomes sacred, which means the stakes are higher, which means you want to dive in further, and theater's hard.

And so there are times where you get to that Saturday night show and you still have two more and it's like, how am I going to do this? And then you do, and you remind yourself what you had convinced yourself you aren't capable of, and you put that together with what you literally just accomplished for the, whatever, 200th time, and it's so gratifying and surprising, like, whoa, and it's not just me, like, okay, I am capable of this, but we are capable of this, like, we keep coming together, we keep making it happen, a bunch of people are out because some people are injured and some people are on vacation and we have to stitch a show together, and people are doing like three crazy split tracks and our dance captains are working like crazy to make the show make sense and you get out there and it does make sense and you talk to the people afterwards and they just had such a good time and it meant so much to them, and all of that, it's such an overwhelming experience that never stops being surprising, how emotionally enriching, albeit exhausting, it is.

[24:03] Joel Crump: Obviously, but it must be exhilarating.

[24:06] Ryan McCartan: Yes.

[24:07] Joel Crump: I love it. And you would think that that would kind of wear off eventually, it hasn't, and that's a big surprise.

[24:13] Ryan McCartan: I love that. When I'm going to play Broadway Time Quick Round, these are some rapid fire questions, okay?

[24:18] Joel Crump: Right.

[24:19] Ryan McCartan: All right, let's do it. Favorite Broadway show?

[24:21] Ryan McCartan: Oh, ever?

[24:22] Joel Crump: Ever.

[24:23] Ryan McCartan: Spring Awakening.

[24:24] Joel Crump: Dream role?

[24:25] Ryan McCartan: Bobby and Company.

[24:26] Joel Crump: Funniest moment on stage?

[24:28] Ryan McCartan: I forgot the gun in Heathers, and I came out with nothing and then just walked off stage for two beats of silence and then came back on stage with the gun, kind of a pivotal prop in Heathers.

[24:40] Joel Crump: You might need that.

[24:41] Ryan McCartan: Yeah, I forgot the gun, that was rough.

[24:44] Joel Crump: Pre-show ritual?

[24:46] Ryan McCartan: At half hour, I go down to get my hair done. At 15, I start doing a vocal warm-up. At five, I put on my suit, and at places, I go out there and start.

[24:55] Joel Crump: Favorite vocal warm-up?

[24:56] Ryan McCartan: I have a tape from my voice teacher that, she like taped a warm-up for me. I do that every single day.

[25:04] Joel Crump: Favorite song to perform in the show?

[25:06] Ryan McCartan: Oh, God. It's a very close tie between past and for her, but it's for her.

[25:14] Joel Crump: Broadway inspiration?

[25:16] Ryan McCartan: Like a person?

[25:17] Joel Crump: Yeah.

[25:18] Ryan McCartan: Joshua Henry.

[25:20] Joel Crump: Dream Broadway co-star?

[25:21] Ryan McCartan: I mean, Joshua Henry, but also like Rachel Ziegler.

[25:26] Joel Crump: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[25:27] Ryan McCartan: Favorite place to relax in New York other than Carmine's?

[25:30] Joel Crump: Other than Carmine's, of course.

[25:33] Ryan McCartan: There's a cafe called Berlina that no one is ever at, they have tons of seating, I have the bathroom code memorized. I don't know if their food is good, I've never gotten it, sorry guys, but I always just go in and get a coffee, and then I go up, and if I like have time to kill, I know that there's a bathroom, I know that there's a place to sit, I know that there's caffeine, and it's like right on 8th Avenue.

[25:52] Joel Crump: Dreams.

[25:53] Ryan McCartan: I love that. And lastly, best piece of advice you've ever received?

[25:56] Ryan McCartan: There are many roads up the mountain, but there's only one mountaintop, so fix your gaze on the summit of your desire, and climb.

[26:04] Joel Crump: I love it. Well, thank you so much, Ryan. We've had an amazing time, I'm so glad we finally were able to do this.

[26:10] Ryan McCartan: 100%.

[26:11] Joel Crump: First time at Carmine's, I hope it was everything you wanted and more.

[26:15] Ryan McCartan: And more.

[26:16] Joel Crump: Yes. You guys can go catch Ryan and The Great Gatsby over at the Broadway Theater as Jay Gatsby himself. Thank you so much, Ryan.

[26:22] Ryan McCartan: Thank you.

[26:24] Ryan McCartan: Thanks for having me. This was great.