This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today I was gonna say we have a surprise guest, but there is a graphic and a link and you saw a name and you clicked on everything. So not much of a surprise, but I'm very excited. We have been working with the Perlman Performing Arts Center reimagined production of Cats called Cats The Jellicle Ball to bring you a series of episodes during the run. I'm excited today to have Jacob Brent here with me to discuss the show. As you all know, Jacob was the magical Mr. Mistoffelees on the original Broadway run and then in the 1998 movie. He was also episode 99, if you want to go back to The Wrong Cat Died and hear about his experience in the show and movie and everything about Cats.

We talked for a very long time and got very deep on a lot of theories. But today, we're here to talk about the new ballroom production at The Pack because so many of you commented to me and to Jacob and asked about this. So we thought we would bring this conversation and record it and let you all hear it. So welcome, Jacob, and thank you for joining me.

[1:16] Jacob Brent: Thank you so much. Hi, everyone. I'm glad to be here. Thank you.

[1:20] Mike Abrams: I've loved when you went and a lot of times, like I saw Ken Page went recently.

[1:24] Jacob Brent: Yeah.

[1:25] Mike Abrams: As more people have gone and got to talk to the cast, it's been fun to see the interactions. But also with you in particular, I remember I got a couple tags. I know you got a couple tags being like, we got to hear what you thought. So I'm just going to start right from the beginning.

[1:40] Jacob Brent: Oh, okay.

[1:41] Mike Abrams: What did you think about when you heard about it? What was your first reaction when you heard about the concept that this was coming in a ballroom setting?

[1:50] Jacob Brent: Oh, sure. Sure. That's great. Yeah. I mean, I was interested. I was excited. I kind of was like, we'll see. I don't know. Why not? But it seems kind of crazy. And it felt a little bit like almost like an SNL sketch to me a little bit. If I'm going to be honest, it felt like, oh, okay, this is going to be like, we're going to speech caps. I get it. And, you know, I didn't think and actually, this goes into what I saw, like, I didn't think it was going to be what it was. So I was pleasantly surprised when I got there. But yeah, I just kind of was like, what is this? And then everyone, people kept asking me and they were like, I was like, I don't know. I have nothing to do with this production.

Like, I have no idea, y'all. But it was, it was, it was interesting. And then the logo came out. And I was like, wait a minute, this, they're like using the cat's logo, like, this had to be a pre somewhere, you know, like, you don't just get to use that logo for nothing. So I was like, somebody has eyes on this. And they do. So it was just it just kind of like, unveiled or revealed itself to me, like, little by little, like, I just was like, what is this? And then, of course, that like, viral video came out with them dancing. And I was like, once I kind of saw that I was like, Okay, I'm like, I get it. I'm on board. I see what we're gonna do. Yeah. But I still didn't know it's still I still thought like, are they doing the whole show?

Are they cutting down? Because like, when you're reading some of the characters, like some people play two or three characters in the show. I don't think I hope I don't give anything away. Yeah, it's it's now in the third extension. So we're, we're getting to the point where I think hopefully we're not spoiling too much. Yeah, I won't spoil everything. But um, but you know, some people play different roles. And and some of the roles have been cut. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. And I really thought they were going to cut it down and it'd be like a 90 minutes or, or even shorter or something like, you know, I thought it was going to be just different than what it was. Right. Or, you know, like I said, like kind of sketchy and like, oh, it's because it's very easy to make fun of the show.

Like, I love the show. I understand. But this is very, very easy to make fun of the show. So it's like, oh, baby, that's what they're doing. When I went and we, we got there and sat down and the overture started playing and they did the opening and I thought, okay, then they did the white cut solo. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, and then we did the whole opening and then I just, it kind of was like, oh, wait, they're doing cats. Like they're doing the show. Like, yeah, all of it. All of it. All of it. In that intermission, I was with some friends, some other friends that had done the show and other companies were there and we were talking at intermission. And I was like, I mean, if they do Gus, I'm like, I'm, if they do the optic, I'm like, I'm out, like, not out, but like, I can't believe they're doing everything.

And act two started and we did the whole Gus section and we, I was like, oh my gosh. And then, um, yeah, just, I just was pleasantly surprised that they did cats. They did not do an SNL sketch of cats.

[5:26] Mike Abrams: It's a good point because I think what was, when did you first learn about it? Because I learned first about it when they announced the casting for the reading, like two and a half years ago. And it went kind of mini viral or at least viral in the cat's world because it read like the SNL skate. Like it was like, we need a drag this and we need this. Like it just didn't, it was without the context or knowing what they were doing with it. There was so much ambiguity that it was like, Ooh, what is this? Like it seems super interesting. It seems kind of a little off. It seems a little weird, but it also seems like it could be really cool. And then it kind of went dark for a while for me until it became like, oh, now this is actually going to go on stage. So did you learn about then or was it more about when they started announcing, Hey, it's going to be?

[6:11] Jacob Brent: I had heard about the readings and rumblings of that. And I was just like, I wonder what that would be and maybe it'd be some kind of thing. Like I, I just, I honestly didn't know. And, um, I was excited. I'm always excited because I think, uh, you know, like the production has been done. We've done cats the way, like the way the, the original creators envisioned it. It had a very long run. We've made a lovely video movie DVD of it. Um, there was another movie of it, which whatever, um, we're going to move on. We'll move on from that, but, um, uh, it's been well documented, right? The show is well documented of the way that, that originally concept was. I'm very honored to be part of that. So I always, uh, a cheerleader for like moving the art form forward, right.

For moving storytelling forward. And if this is the way that it done, then I'm all in, it just felt, it just was like, what? And then, oh, I was also hearing, oh, we're not wearing tails. We're not really cats. And I'm, I got like ballroom culture. I got like the cattiness. Oh, we're going to be catty. I like the play on that. I was like, oh, I get that. Um, but I kind of was like, wait, we're not, how are they going to do this without being cats? Like it just, it's so cats. It's so like, it's weird to me. Like it was just bizarre, but it, it actually, it just, it just worked. It just works. I mean, you've seen it, right. So, um, I, you know, we went, we got, we did the whole thing. Um, got some training before we sat like, right. Um, for the people that haven't seen it, I don't know how to explain. We sat like right in the center of the, uh, runway. So right behind where, um, old Deuteronomy says, where, okay.

[8:12] Mike Abrams: So you were the, that's where I tell everyone that's the, in my opinion, the best seat for a first time seeing it. I think it's the best coming at you. Yeah. Cause my first time I was at the table. So the cabaret seats at the end of the runway, which was quite the experience.

[8:27] Jacob Brent: Oh, but also it's overwhelming with a lot of stuff happening around you at all times.

[8:32] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And I was, I was far enough back to like, take it in, like be able to take it all in. It was fun. Um, you know, we had guests judges that night. So Michelle was there, which was very exciting. Um, uh, as a guest judge, um, it was just really, it was, it was an experience that I have not experienced before in a theater. I will say that in terms of just the, the experience of the show, like I had never been in an audience that participated that much in the show and was encouraged to participate that much in the show in like these gorgeous seats. First of all, the theater is gorgeous. Like, yeah, it's so new. It's so nice. Like every Broadway house, like, please take note, like redo your theaters, please.

Um, it was, and so that was really interesting. And the fact that we were so far downtown, yet all these people were there and like, it just felt electric. I know that's a word that's been going around with some of the reviews, but I really was, I was like, wow, this is really what theater can be like this coming together, this group of people coming together and experiencing this night that only is for us in this room. And, um, that was just really exciting for me. Um, and what theater can be and the parallel I was drawing was like, wow, this is like when, when cats opened on in New York in 1982, like 82, I believe, or 83. I forget you'll, somebody will check me. Um, but the same thing happened.

I mean, I don't know if it was as electric, but it really, um, I mean, I don't think people were screaming in their seats, but, um, just that feeling of like, this is different. Theater is moving forward. And, and it, I think the same, it's happened the same way, um, with the same show as I saw it. I felt I had that feeling of like, oh, wow. Okay. This is a real, uh, like a mile marker in musical theater history again with the show. Now, whether it will run for 25, 30 years, it's, you know, I don't know. That's the producers, that's their job, but, um, it does feel like, oh, this is a shift. This is a shift. And the way things are cast, the way things are rehearsed and just the whole community around the show felt different.

[11:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah. The energy is infectious. And I think it's been interesting having, I've now been twice and I've got tickets to go back a third time and both times I went, I mean, the first time was a preview and like, it was still really early, but even the second time, this was like, you know, people knew at this point, it was pretty much sold out through the end of the first or the second extension. And everyone in the crowd, like I had a child sitting on one side. I had a couple of older women sitting next to me. I had, you know, some people who were clearly there from the ballroom scene that were ready to go, that were like part of some of the houses over there. They were like, they were friends with the cast and not every single person in the crowd looked like they were having the time of their life.

And I think that that is really a cool part about this show is it doesn't really matter who you are. It's you're going to feel the energy of, of the cast, of the creative, of how they built it and also the room. And as someone who also doesn't love being participating, like, I don't like participating in shows. I don't like to be in shows. I hate those ones where they're like, like sleep no more was my, like, my nightmare for a long time of like, someone's going to grab me and pull me in a room. And you don't have that happen though here, but you still get that energy and the excitement from cause the interactions are like minor. Like a lot of the cast, I sat the second row at the end of, or the beginning of the catwalk the second time.

And the snarky comments that came from, you know, the mungo J rumple teasers and like this throughout are hilarious. And it's like a small little piece that's, that's um, added to the show that I loved. Um, but I want to ask you about the, like, for me, one of the most interesting things, the first time I saw it was, I kind of jokingly said, I don't know much about ballroom besides being able to see Paris is burning, you know, like being able to see a documentary about it. Um, I was like, but I, and I arguably know too much about cats. Like that was how I walked into the theater. And I kind of was joking about that, about, I know way too much about this and I don't know how they're going to do the cats part.

I don't know much about the ballroom, but I kind of heard a little bit about that. So I'm curious, what was like, how much did you know about the ballroom walking in and you know, you're the other person that knows way too much about cats, you know, and, and did you have, I had the reaction of, wow, this is surely cats just with, in my opinion, it gave me what I wanted, which was the competitions and, uh, that someone different could win throughout the show many, many times. Uh, but I was blown away by how true it was to, to cats.

[13:31] Jacob Brent: Yeah. I think, I think they got what cats is about really. Um, I, I, and to answer your question, I did not know much at all. I still don't know much about the ballroom. I want to learn more. Um, of course, but I, you know, I had watched Paris is burning. I've watched some special, you know, some documentaries about that. So I've kind of had a little bit of an idea. Like I wasn't completely like, what is this? Like I know about the houses and we compete, um, all those things. Um, and like you said, yes, I knew way too much about cats, which I was like, which was kind of scared me. Cause I was kind of like, I'm not sure. And, and hearing that everybody was like going like Gaga over this, um, this production and being like, Oh, finally I can understand cats.

Like it's the way it's supposed to be. And, and, but we can, we can kind of talk about that later, but I was like, Oh, okay. And I was like, I don't, you know, I just, I kind of went in with arms crossed. I'm not going to lie. I kind of was like, let's see, like prove to me, but this is, and something happens at the very beginning, um, which the, the, the little, um, the video of there's a cat dancing and the cat eyes and, um, I don't know if you caught on to this, but that those are glimmers of the original white cat solo from the original production. And I saw that and I was like, huh? Okay. Um, and then they come out and they do the, they're like the homage to the original recording the album.

And I thought, okay, we got it. We're going to be safe. They understand what they're doing. And they also are paying homage to like what the original was. And they're, they're saying, I felt, I felt like the director was saying, we, I understand this, this, this is beloved. This is a classic, um, like musical and, and the like Canon and, um, we're just going to do something different, but we know where we're coming from and we want to pay homage to that. So I, to me, and then after the opening number, I was like, okay, I got it. We're, we're, I'm on board. It's fine. I understand what this is. So, um, and that way I just loved it. I just was able to be like, it's not, you know, I just loved it.

I loved it. And I was able to, to meet and bill during intermission. It was, I, and I really go, you know, it's the one time that I can be in a room and be like, Hey, I'm, I'm Mr. We're like, what? Yeah. But, uh, I kind of said, Hey, you know, I told him what was so sweet. And he was like, she must come back and meet at the end. So he, I, they were all waiting. It was very sweet, very nice that they, that I was there. And, um, they were very excited and wanted to hear what I thought about it, which I thought was great. Um, so that part of the experience was really lovely in itself to, to be able to like talk to them. And they were so reverent and thinking, you know, thinking us for what we had done and that, you know, they understood, like, we wouldn't be here without that video.

And so many people are like, Oh my God. Like one guy was basically in tears. He was like, are you, I watched you growing up. And like, it was a reason that I am dancing and doing this. And now I'm getting to meet you and I'm doing cats and it's like way too full circle moment, but yeah. So it's just, it's that, and then just also it's this other part of it with this being so like, um, part of the queerness of cats, um, which I never really got because it was just me of like being misophilies. I just played it like me, but I guess something like me being in that role, pulling out that rainbow streamer and the number and like celebrating it just as sort of like, there was like this kind of weird gay icon thing.

I don't want to say I'm a gay icon, but I'm like, there's like this, like, we like, Oh, there's a, there's a, there could be a space for this world. And so that is really fascinating to me that this is now coming up. I didn't, you know, of course, of course, when you're making things like that, you have no idea of what it's gonna do for people later on. And so just for people to come up and say that, like when you pulled out that rainbow streamer and just saw myself and knew that I had a, knew I had a place in this world. And I was like, wow. Like, wow. Like that. Oh my God. Amazing. But like, I had no, no idea I was doing that. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was, as I talked to some of the cats, you know, they, um, somebody who was from more of the ballroom scene and not the theater world.

Cause I've talked to a lot of them and it's been really fun to see like the indoctrination into cat's world for the non cats, like non theater people, they, they're like really in and loving it. And they're getting that moment that like, for me, I had, when I started the show, like, Oh, this is super fun. And here's this part. Um, but, but someone, uh, when I said that I was like, Oh, you got to meet Jacob. Cause I saw the picture and they're like the face of cats because you and Ken hugging each other is like the moment that they knew. And so there was like that honor of like, again, you don't know that that, that one moment is going to be something. What are we, I mean, years and years later as part of, that's like the essence of the show that's been around for so long.

And now this re-imagined version of being able to bring it back. But I want to ask, because I want to get into some of the character changes. Oh yeah. Like the nuances. And one, I want to ask is as most affilies silk, who does things with their body. I can't even fathom, but they really lean into the Mustafa's tugger relationship. I thought that too hard, very hard. I was like, Oh, this is like, the fans are going to love this moment. And I love that. I love that they had done their sort of research and knew that that lore was out there and like, okay, Lynn, what, what is this then that they, I loved it. I loved it. And that we've thankfully been lucky to have both silk and Sydney who play Mustafa's and tugger on the podcast and got to hear how they came up with it and how they decided to lean into it.

But I want to hear from you about, there are some, like, I wouldn't say there's changes per se. I mean, I think there are a couple that are done differently. Like the, what, Macavity is like a slightly different storyline. Obviously Grizabella goes through a same arc, but with less, I would say it's actually less dark because it's much more of the ballroom version of it. You get a little bit less dark of a demeanor, you get more of a sassy demeanor. So there are some that are like pretty similar and some that really changed. So who were like, what were the characters that stood out to you as, Ooh, I really liked this version that maybe is different than what you were used to.

[20:48] Jacob Brent: That's such a good question. I loved what they did with Mustafa. I thought that's, that's the way you do it in this version. That's who that person that, that cat is in this. I really loved Munger Rump. I really thought that they had the, like, the cheekiness that, that they are. They got that. I don't know. Yeah. Like, the Macavity, Macavity was a little, I don't want to say odd for me, but like, yeah, that was probably the one that was like, I was like, Oh, okay. I see. I see what we're doing. Yeah. That one to me was the most changed. I think from the.

[21:28] Mike Abrams: It's definitely the most different because they didn't, there wasn't as much villain as much as the, like, we're going to walk labels and we're going to have some tags on those labels. Like the labels part is going to be questionable, but still much more of the, like, I'm in the tribe. Like I'm, I'm part of the tribe. I'm, I'm walking the ball. I'm in the ball. I just am a little bit more sassy and in a category that's different. Yeah. That was very different. Cause you know, Macavity is not in that tribe and that whole Demeter, Macavity kind of thing was not there, but that's okay. Yeah. I think some of it stems from, there wasn't a split track, so there's no bus Gus, there's no Macavity doing other, other parts and other costumes.

So I think they had to kind of weave some different storylines in for, you know, a lot of those characters. I guess there's one split track that I know of, which is Cassandra Skimbleshanks, but for the most part, Bus for Jones is Bus for Jones. There's no Bus Gus, like those are two separate characters. Well, you know, it's hard. It's, it's also, unless you, you've really like done the show, um, you know, the, the, there's not much there in terms of story and the, and the script. And so it's very open for interpretation. So that's, that's the way they interpreted it. And I, it was, it was totally fine. I mean, all that, that story is made up and not written down, unfortunately. And so when people do it, um, even if they're doing it and like regional productions or now it's in schools and aren't, you know, other community productions, like, I'm not sure that they would, unless they've really studied or really talked to somebody that done it.

I'm not sure that they would know that information as well. So I was, I was truly, I was, I'm so happy with it. And I thought, regardless of the, of the changes of the characters, I thought what they really got right was the essence of the show. Um, that the show is about a community of people or community. And this, this one is people and we were cats. It's about forgiveness and it's about, um, you know, letting coming together as a group to collectively forgive this person or this, this animal or Grizabella. Right. And I, so I really felt like they got that. I, what I really loved is the sort of bump up of the syllabus character. Um, they made that very clear where it's not so clear and other productions kind of like they took Victoria and syllabus and they kind of split the role and really it works better when I, and I have done it where we've not done syllabus and kept it as white cat so that it all tracks that the white cat is more syllabus and is the one that is connected to Grizabella. And they, that really played out beautifully in this production.

[24:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah. That actor was fantastic. Both of them. They tell, they tell the Grizabella story perfectly in my opinion, to the point where I've kind of joked with them. I'm like, you're kind of ruining the, my theory here. Um, like my whole show has been centered around Grizabella not being the right choice and it's much harder to argue in this case a lot because I think that they changed the definition or not change. They have a different version of what you would call the heavyset layer. Like I've always viewed the heavyset layer as death and, you know, being re reincarnated and there it's like, they're going to go walk the ball or they're going to have another chance to kind of go back to this, this world, but in a different, you know, that may be a different ball community or a different piece. And it doesn't feel as dark as like, Oh, I'm being chosen to be exiled. It's more of like, I'm being dragged forward.

[25:16] Jacob Brent: Yeah. It's very, it's very, that is very clear. And it's, um, you know, it's, uh, it is, it is, like you said, it's, um, it is not as dark, you know, in original cats, we really don't know what it is. I mean, yeah. Even the people that have done it, like, even I'm like, I don't know what the heavy side, I don't really know what the heavy side layer is. No one, no one has ever been able to tell me what it really is. Um, and I think that's part of it. Like that's not, it's whatever you want it to be. Um, but they, they definitely made a choice to make it something else. And that was, I thought it was great. I thought, yeah, I mean, the way the stage memory, I want a stage memory that way. So now on even just put them in a cat suit or whatever.

Yeah. That was the other thing. I've just watched it. I was like, I want to do a production set this way. Like not necessarily, um, and the ballroom clerkship, like, cause that's been done. We're not going to steal that idea, but like if you, if we were to do cats, like real cats, but in that space with that, like intimacy with the audience and togetherness, like I would just love to, to play in that playground.

[26:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I've, so I've heard over the years of doing this show, regional productions that have changed the location of the junkyard being a amusement park or a old mall, abandoned mall or an arcade. And so it wasn't like when I, when I saw ballroom, I'm like, that's that fits like that tracks. And then especially the community piece, which you mentioned is, is so that part is so perfectly aligned. I think the other thing that it did, and I've joked that every cats hater I've ever met has loved this version. And I think it eliminated the easy punchlines, which is the easy punchlines were always the cat suits. Like they're dressed up as cats. I don't know their names. I don't know what I'm looking at.

And you got rid of that. It was pretty easy to figure out who was who, um, they're just in, you know, going out, they're going out to the, to their, uh, to their night out. Um, so you took that away. And then I think by having the competition being the focal point, you tell the story in the way that I actually envisioned it the first time I I've always joked from day one, seeing Leona Lewis, I thought it was the X factor. And so this is a version of that, where there is each cat is competing in their own little space and walking their, their category. And so I think it's told the story in a clearer way for someone who doesn't have any idea of what's cats is, or is just saw and don't remember it.

And it took the easiest punchline away. And I think that you add that plus it's beautifully done. The performers are great. The energy is infectious and you just get this like kind of perfect spiral of everybody walking out with a good time.

[28:06] Jacob Brent: Absolutely. 100%. Absolutely. I felt the same way. I think they leaned into, you know, they leaned into the competition part of it, um, you know, which is, it's kind of confusing because the original concept is not really a competition, right? It's not, we're not there to, um, or we went there to, uh, uh, buy for who was going to win. It was more of a celebration and we were there to perform for each other, but it totally comes off as who's the better cat, right? So yeah, 100% agree. And that they leaned into that, like, and it just, I think it takes away that it was just made it more clear for, for the audience. You know, it's, we're asking a lot when people are dressed up as felines and they have unitards on and arm warmers and leg warmers and makeup.

And what is this thing? And, um, you know, I always, you know, children get it always. It's the adults that are like, wait, what? I'm, I'm missing something. And they're like, no, you're not really. You're just supposed to just enjoy it and look at it as like, and then kids are able to do that. They're just able to look at it and they get the story right away. I think adults try to make too much of it sometimes because of our, we've gotten older, our imaginations are gone, that kind of stuff. So it's, it's playing, it's all that. So they, they really kind of fixed that, which I loved. And there were some moments that I just, I thought were so brilliant. Um, you know, that, that viral video of them dancing, coming down that runway in the show, it was electrified.

I mean, the, the, the audience erupted. It was so exciting. So exciting. Um, and some of the things I did with some of the characters, like Skimball, I love what they did with Skimball and Bustifer, I thought that was great. Just all of it was so, so fun. I really did. Um, yeah, I don't know. I'm just talking, but what was your original question? I'm sorry.

[30:19] Mike Abrams: No, no, I love, I'm like thinking through going back to like, just having seen it recently and, and all those moments that I had, and I hope everyone gets a chance if they can to go see it now that, that there are, you know, there's three more weeks of an extension. Yeah. Um, so there's an opportunity to, to go if you can, if you can get to New York, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. But let's go. I want to do some rapid fire because I love asking these questions and I've asked them to you before, but I'm going to now, they're going to be pack, uh, ballroom specific.

[30:46] Jacob Brent: Oh, excellent. Let's do it. This'll be, this'll be fun.

[30:52] Mike Abrams: So if you want to be in this production, which character would you want to play in this production?

[30:58] Jacob Brent: Oh, um, um, um, skim ball, skim ball. I love it. That was just genius. Freaking genius. What they did with that.

[31:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I, Emma's one of the funniest people I think I've ever met in my life. And when she came out in the MTA costume, I lost it. I wasn't ready for it. I, and it's so fun. And it's like, I love that they added some Spanish to it and that they really like leaned into that whole, like, and you know, then they're in the subway car and kind of dancing. I mean, just genius. Okay. Next square. I'm sorry. We're not really rapid fire now. I never, these are never rapid fire. I always say that. And then I was like, ah, let's do it. Um, okay. So who in this production character personality wise, who would be probably your best friend and who would be the one that annoys you?

[31:47] Jacob Brent: Oh, Demeter's probably be my best friend. Annoys me. Oh, I don't know. I don't know what to say on that. Who's the one that's like, it's just not the personality that you gravitate towards. Can I say, can I say my cavity? I'll say my cavity. Yeah. Okay. Um, what was your, I mean, the music's pretty similar, but what was your favorite song in this production?

[32:07] Jacob Brent: I did love the ball. I know I've said that before, but probably my favorite music, the ball, but like, that was really good. My favorite song. I really liked Bronco rump. That was wonderful. Exciting. Did you, did you catch Victoria and tumble Brutus do the cartwheel? Yes. And the Mac. I love that. Yes. I loved that. Yeah. I don't know. Memory. I like, I felt like I saw memory fresh. You know, I've heard that song 780,000 times. Um, and I just felt like it was so fresh and performed so well. And I was like, I am so, to me, that was just like a mark of beautiful storytelling. Right? Like if someone like that, that knows it so well, I've seen it a billion times and I'm like on the edge of my seat waiting, like, what is she going to do?

Knowing that the big notes coming, knowing what's going to happen, you know, soon as she came in with that code, I was like, I know exactly what's going to happen here. And still I was in tears, crying, cheering, standing up. So I love it. That was really cool.

[33:20] Mike Abrams: Was there this, I'm adding a rapid fire question. Was there a dance move in particular that stood out to you? That's something that's not, you know, maybe it's a ballroom thing or that, that jumped out as like, this is not normally in cats. And I love that they added this step or this move or this, there were a lot of death drops. Um, yeah, I think, I, I'm, I think we call them desk drops. I'm not sure that's the like actual ballroom technical term. So, um, some will help me on that, but yeah, that was, that was like, that was fun. That was fun to see that in there. Yeah. I really liked all the different kind of like competitions. Like I really got on that and like, Oh, this is that the houses and, um, you know, Jenny, Jenny dots I thought was very clear of like who that is. Um, that was funny. I don't know. I love it. All of it. All of us. Great. All of us. Great. That's my question. What's the house you want to be in?

[34:18] Jacob Brent: Oh gosh. I don't remember what, I mean, I love Jenny. Any dots is Jenny. Any docs actually is in the program. It's in the playbook. I did not know that at first, but they have marked some of them. So there's the house of McAvity, the house of dots and the house of glamor. Those are the three that are very clearly written out. And then I've, uh, there's the unofficial house, which is Mungo, Jerry and ripple teasers, the house of larceny. Got it. I'd probably be a house of dots, house of dots. Okay. Probably. Knowing my personality, I would be that. If you were going to start a house, what would you call your house?

[34:57] Jacob Brent: The house of jazz, I guess.

[35:00] Mike Abrams: Awesome. Jazz. Okay. I love it. I love it. Why not? I don't know. Okay. Um, so then the, the important question that I think, I know we know your answer from originally, but in this production, who is your Jellicle choice and why?

[35:16] Jacob Brent: I still think it's Isabella. I'm sorry. I know. I still think it's that, um, I love what they did with Gus and this, and I felt like they got that relationship right. Um, and they just set up it so beautifully that it is Isabella that it feels like that's what it should be. Yeah. I kind of joked with, um, the directors, Bill and Jalen, when I ever saw it, I was like, you ruined the biggest argument against her, which is Gus. And, but junior LaVagia is just, he's, he's not ready. Like you can see he's, he's living the best life out there. Like you could tell he is still, still owning that runway, still running the show. And so I was like, I can't argue that it should be junior because junior doesn't want to go. Um, so I kind of stepped aside and it's like, you go, it's your turn. Like, yeah. So, um, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to fight you on this one. Cause it's such a beautiful arc of it. And it, it does tell it really well.

[36:16] Jacob Brent: Yeah. And how about Andre De Shields? Let's, let me just say that name before we, this ends, but like just legendary, just legendary and unbelievable talent and perfect for the role and knows how to own the stage. I think the first time when the, it looks like the 10 commandments, but with the gel commune on it and the amount of energy, he just sits there and owns turning those around. It's the, I was like in awe the first time I saw it.

[36:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. I, I love that. I was like, yes, that is old junior. That is right. So there's a, there's a fun Easter egg that I saw the second time. Cause it's just where I happen to be sitting. But if you're, if you pay close enough attention or if you happen to have a seat that, especially on the sides of the catwalk, when Gus tells his story, they pass around two playbills that they're all like kind of looking at all the kittens kind of listening. And I think it's supposed to say who, you know, like these are his old, his old numbers and those things he used to do. And one is obviously cats. The second is one of the original whiz playbills for Andre as a little small Easter egg. Um, and I noticed that this time, cause I saw the cats on the first time and this time I'm like, is that a whiz playbill?

I was like, Oh, that's such a cool, that's awesome. As you know, as, as the whiz. Oh my gosh. I love that we're doing Easter eggs and Broadway shows. That's exciting. Yeah. I've been told there's a lot more and I like trying to catch them, but it's just like the cat, you know, the first time I saw cats on Broadway, I was like, there's so much happening that you can't catch everything. Cause there's always things going on. And depending on where you're sitting, you're going to get different things from each character and different remarks from different one. And you know, like Mungo and Rump take some stuff from different seats where they're, you know, they're stealing, but they're stealing from one side and then from the other side.

So if you, you know, if you go, I think where you sat is where I tell everyone to go. Um, actually Broadway, Ben, who's on tick-tock does a really good analysis of, of all the different seats of like every single potential seat you could buy and what your view would be like in the pros and cons. And it's, it's a very well done because there's a different experience kind of where you are, but you're still going to have a blast no matter where you are because the energy is throughout the whole room.

[38:40] Jacob Brent: Yeah. I mean, I would really, at this point, I would just say, get in the room, like anywhere you can, wherever you can. Yeah. Um, but it was very exciting. And the cool thing just for me afterwards, it's like, yeah, I got to talk to the performers and, and talk to them, um, not only about, uh, you know, of course the show like, oh my God, you're so great. I love the concept, but, but they were able to talk to me about how hard the show was. Cause that was, I was like, isn't this show really hard? They were like, oh my gosh, the show was so hard. I was like, it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. And they were like, the show was so high. It's written so high. Like everyone's singing in the stratosphere.

And they're like, we had no idea what we signed up for. They were like, um, one of them was like, I've never sang this much in my life or like, it was like, so that was, it was fun for them because they actually got to then. I think talk to somebody that had been in the trenches a little bit, like besides the, like, oh my God, you were fabulous. And I love the ballroom and like, like, yeah, thank you so much. But we were able to be like, oh, that was great. Okay. Now like the show, like, girl, you got to breathe here because this, you don't get a chance to breathe until this point. And like, we just were able to like, that was really fun and to connect on that level. So I was, again, it was just a blast.

They were so, um, they were so kind that everybody was so kind and I hope that it goes on and does, you know, great things. And I hope to go again. So if you, if you're going again and you have an extra ticket, I just let me know, I'll be there with you. And, um, we'll, we'll find those, we'll find those Easter eggs. We'll chat. We'll chat after, uh, after we, we hang up about that. Um, but yes, we, uh, if you can get back to New York, if you're in New York, if you get a chance, I told, you know, the thing is, is we, I, I went to the second preview and I left telling everybody, I think you're going to get, I think you should buy your tickets now. You know, like, I think this is going to be really well.

And then I'm like, I, as a cat's person, I was like, I know the cat's part, but like, it's just not a single person in that crowd had a bad time. And that's, that's not the case in every show I see. Um, and everyone walking out, you could hear it. Cause like we walked to the subway together and you could hear everyone was like, was blown away. And so I had a few friends buy tickets right away. I was just like, just buy anything you can. And the pack does an amazing job. They have a lot of discounted tickets. They have under 30 veterans, teachers, military, like a lot of different things to try to make it affordable. Um, but they're hard to get tickets. So I'm glad they have an extension cause like you need to buy them now. If you want to go, did anything change from the preview? Then you saw four or the last time?

[41:31] Jacob Brent: Not so I, not material. I think some of the stuff I noticed where I think they, they redid a few of the mesophilies, um, magic tricks because not all of them worked. Um, and then being, I mean, I was also sitting at the cabaret seat, so I was like on the stage and there were some, definitely some stuff of like some earrings went flying and some like wigs were like maybe not fully on the way they expected for the movement they were going to have to do. So it was like a lot more of the little stuff that I noticed. Um, than anything I did see a different syllabub the second time. So it was really cool. I think this might've been the first time this person went on for it, which was cause like based on the bows and everything, it felt like, um, everyone was like really, really amped for them.

Um, so that was, that was really cool, uh, to see, but yeah, not, not anything crazy. Like I didn't notice major things. I did find out that I, I was at the show that the first time they really went for the Tugger mesophilies Tugger mesophilies moment was that production, like that second preview and they didn't tell anybody. And that's why the reaction from the crowd, like from the cast was so big is because they didn't know that was coming. Um, but yeah, I think they, I know that they were having just at Broadway con had on the, um, choreographers there, they were tweaking little things, but it wasn't major stuff. Just a couple, we maybe need to move this person to this part of the stage. And to do that, you've got to have this step, a different, a slightly different, but I think what I saw the first time versus the second was very similar, but I saw totally different angles.

And I do think that that created a different experience in a theater as intimate and really small as that is. I saw everyone walking away from me more than the first time they were all walking right towards me. And I could see other parts of the theater. I couldn't see the first time I, I had less of a view of what's happening behind, but I could also see kind of behind like offstage a little bit. So I could see them kind of gearing some stuff up and seeing them like getting their drinks and kind of like decompressing as, as performers. So you just get totally different views, which I love. If you get a chance to see a show more than once, it's fun to get the different experiences of it.

[43:48] Jacob Brent: Absolutely. Absolutely. Live theater. There's nothing better. There's really nothing better.

[43:54] Mike Abrams: Amen. Amen. Well, this is great. I'm glad we could document your experience and everyone can hear. And, um, you know, I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as, as everyone has. So how can people stay in touch with you on social media and everything you're, you're doing?

[44:04] Jacob Brent: Oh, you're sweet. Um, Jacob Prince to Graham is my, my Insta and that's, that's where I am. Um, that's, I can kind of do one thing. So Instagram sort of it. So please, please follow or, you know, reach out. I'm happy to always say hi.

[44:22] Mike Abrams: Awesome. Uh, any parting words and before we wrap up,

[44:26] Jacob Brent: Oh my gosh. I'm just so I'm so thrilled for the show. Um, you know, it's, it's lovely that it's, it has this new life. Um, I don't think it will, you know, I think this will be great, but I, you know, I think there's room for all of it. There's room for our production room for this production. It's all good. It's all just a testament to how the show itself. Um, and, and I love that they got it right. I'm so excited for this cast. I'm so excited for the directors and choreographers and all the creatives that are worked on this. Um, and I just wish it the best. I really do. And, um, hopefully it will move to an, uh, maybe a bigger venue and, uh, uptown and be nominated for things. And, um, you know, hopefully I'll get invited to that. So we'll see.

[45:18] Mike Abrams: I, Amen. I hope, um, I love that too, because I, I don't, I've been trying to find the right wordings for it a lot, where I'm talking about the two different productions. And I don't want to be like this one versus that one, or the old versus the new it's like, there's space for both of them. Like you just said, and I love that they're, they're different, but they're similar. And they're, um, I, the way you said it was, was bringing the art forward and bringing art, like re-imagining it into a new way, but also still being the art form and still kind of paying true to what it was. And, and it's done that so well. Um, and kudos to everyone involved and I'm glad to hear all the reactions and see it. And I'm with you. I hope it has another Jellicle life, uh, beyond this third extension.

[46:04] Jacob Brent: Oh, that's good. I love that. Yes. Now and forever.

[46:09] Mike Abrams: Now and forever. Amazing. Well, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for coming on.

[46:13] Jacob Brent: Thank you. I'm happy to come on anytime.

[46:17] Mike Abrams: Awesome. Well, thank you. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of the Runcat Dive, the podcast breakdown, the Cass Ashby to follow along, you can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or any of us in the podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok and threads at runcatdive or check our website at runcatdive.com.