This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of The Cat Statistrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest.

[0:24] Mike Abrams: We are celebrating Andrew Lloyd Webber. With Phantom of the Opera set to close on Broadway, I'm going to be having a handful of what I'm calling phantom cats on the podcast.

[0:34] Mike Abrams: So my guest today has been performing in Phantom of the Opera, but before that, he was Munkustrap on the fifth U.S. national tour and a swing, and then also a swing on the 2016 Broadway revival. So welcome, Tug Watson. Thank you for joining me.

[0:47] Tug Watson: Thanks for having me. I love this.

[0:49] Mike Abrams: I am excited to have you. I think you have a long cat's history, and I'm excited to be able to do this kind of fun collaboration with Phantom, just knowing the parallels with Andrew Lloyd Webber's work. But let's start at the very beginning, and I love to hear your history with The Cat Show. I know you're wearing your cat's hoodie. When was the first time you saw it? Did you see it on stage first? Did you see the 1998 movie? What was your first interaction?

[1:13] Tug Watson: Well, I think the first time that I officially had seen it from beginning to end was the movie. But my first interaction with Cats would have been I was five or six. My family, we were living in Plymouth, England, and my parents took two of my sisters to go see Cats on the West End. But they left myself and my younger sister, who was a baby at that time, with a sitter because they didn't think I would like it, which is hilarious. And for some reason, I knew what the show was, and I knew that I wanted to see it. And then, of course, I just put it in my head, I shall be in this show one day. And I was five or six years old. And then my sisters became dancers, and I remember watching my twin sister, Erin.

Her recital, she danced to Macavity, and I was just insane with jealousy. And it wasn't until, I don't know, 10 or 11 or 12 when I started dancing myself. But in that timeframe, yeah, I saw the VHS and was absolutely enamored with it. And then I saw the final cast on Broadway the week before it closed.

[2:27] Mike Abrams: Wow. Okay, so how old were your sisters when they took them to see it on the West End?

[2:32] Tug Watson: Erin and I were twins, so she was five or six, and my older sister would have been nine.

[2:39] Mike Abrams: Okay. So it wasn't an age like, we don't think it's appropriate for you. They just didn't think you'd enjoy it.

[2:45] Tug Watson: Yeah, it probably was that simple. There was no history of thespians or dancers in either of our families, really. My mom's father taught drama, but in conjunction with teaching English. And my father was a Marine, so there was really no reason why I would grow up to be a musical theater jellicle. So it was just, you know, they didn't bring me. There's no jellicle background in the family.

[3:17] Tug Watson: Uh-uh. No.

[3:19] Mike Abrams: So that's kind of, I think, so your family's kind of first interaction was a West End production. And then you finally get to see it on stage. How old are you when you see the original Broadway kind of ending?

[3:31] Tug Watson: 16.

[3:32] Mike Abrams: 16. Okay. And this is like, wow. So that's a, you've now seen the VHS. You're very aware of what's happening. But now you're in a much more age where you can understand that the dance is a little more to it. What was that experience like as a 16-year-old?

[3:51] Tug Watson: Oh, it was incredible. I was in New York doing a theater dance summer intensive with a new dance group. And any chance I got, I would go see Broadway shows. And I knew that Cats was closing and I just had to go see it before it did. So I remember just being in the orchestra at the Winter Garden. And I was really aware that the show had been around longer than I had been alive. So I was treating it with respect. Whether it was falling apart or really, really well kept, I don't know that I was paying attention too much to that as much as I was just thinking to myself, I'm watching history right now. And I remember being completely blown away. I mean, totally blown away. No expectations other than to just kind of go and pay my respects.

Because at that point, I certainly knew I was going to pursue theater. And I also was very aware that it was Cats that was my first introduction to theater. I knew it was the VHS. It is such an interesting thing that when I look back and I talk to someone who wasn't involved in musical theater. I played hockey since I was three years old. It is such a show that is so many people's first VHS or first introduction or first performance. And it's been around for so long that there's this massive history.

[5:24] Mike Abrams: So let's fast forward now. You get the tour, you get booked on the tour as Munkustrap. So what goes through your mind as that is such your introduction to theater and then you get the role?

[5:39] Tug Watson: Well, it felt very meant to be. I had had a friend of mine from college who ended up going on and playing Rum Tum Tugger, Joanna Silvers. And then my best friend in the world, Justin Huebner, got cast as Munkustrap on the tour. And I was on tour with Annie. And then Justin and I decided to move to New York together and give the big city a go. And he had declined to come back for a second year. And we were living together. And I had heard that they were looking for an immediate replacement for Munkustrap, Demeter, and Tugger and Alonzo. So I just I had I had just read The Secret and I decided I was going to make room for Cats in my life. So I packed bags and I found a subletter before I even went to the audition.

And I had also just gotten over an injury and I now was feeling well enough to go and dance again. So I went to the audition and, you know, there are a couple hundred people there. And I just felt it in my bones that I was going to be on a plane like in three days. I knew it. And they called back maybe 10 guys to come sing after we danced. And I was the last one to sing. And I just felt like going all in. And so Kristen Blodgett, the music supervisor of the tour, and Richard Stafford, when I walked into the room, they were just like, oh, what are you going to sing? And I decided I wanted to sing "How Glory Goes" from Floyd Collins. Totally inappropriate for the show, but the measures are really the measures are super long in that.

And they were only giving us, you know, 32 bars. And I'm like, well, I'm just going to milk this for all I want. Thirty-two bars of "How Glory Goes" is, you know, roughly an hour long. So I was just going to give it all I could. So I sang that and then Kristen asked me if I knew anything from the show and my exact words were, I know every word of the show and confidence. I can tell you. And I don't think I'm that confident in, you know, all the time, but I just had this feeling. So she came up and conducted in front like three feet from my face. She conducted "Old Deuteronomy" and "Gumbie Cat." And then she just looked at me and smiled. And I think she may have put her hand on mine. And that was that.

And I just went back to my place and I got a call from company management. And I was on a plane two days later to Costa Mesa, California. It was wild. And thank God I already had my bags packed and the subletter found. I just I was so ready. I was so ready.

[8:46] Mike Abrams: So this is I think this is an interesting piece because you're coming in through the tour, right? You're not you're not like it's as a coming in late. How much backstory and prep do they give you? Because I do I have you know, there's in 2016 and there's always a year about cat school and you hear about three words and all the stuff. But when you're coming in halfway through, like what do they tell you to help drive that kind of persona you need to play the role?

[9:11] Tug Watson: Well, they did. They had like a three-ring binder with all the cat's pictures in it and a small paragraph of their character description. And the picture was like that classic Michael Gruber that, you know, blue eyes stare to the camera. And I knew that character in and out. But I'm also I don't know, I I was always told I was too short to play the role and not buff enough. But so I had to amp up my leadership or princely persona. And but I was also a replacement. So my rehearsals weren't with the other cats. It was with our dance captains and a couple swings. And it was really just plugging me into the show. And then throughout that first contract, which I think was only maybe six months, is when I really developed my own personal relationships with the other cats on stage. And then I came up with the most ridiculous backstory ever.

[10:27] Mike Abrams: And that's what we're here for.

[10:27] Tug Watson: That is what this is doing is I'm slowly documenting the history of everyone's opinion of what their characters. Let's start with the tour. Let's start with Munkustrap. I want to hear what is your Munkustrap's backstory and the relationships you play and the stuff that you kind of created to make this the story live for, you know, the rest of the world that doesn't get to understand it half the time.

[10:51] Tug Watson: All right. Well, I'll start with just a serious little caveat. And that is the source material, you know, the poems. It doesn't provide character descriptions for all of them. And Munkustrap being one of them gives you very little, very little. But I am a staunch defender that the show does have a plot. And it's but it's it's also subtle, I suppose, in all of its on subtleties. The plot is subtle. Oh, the way to best get through it as an actor is to have and to take very seriously your backstory. And your chosen relationships and, you know, the loves and the dislikes that you have with everyone, whether the audience sees just a dancing spectacle or not, the story and the backstory are very internal. So my very serious backstory from Munkustrap, and I know I'm going to get read for filth on all the Reddit pages for this. Cats Wiki is not going to like me. The backstory for Munkustrap is loosely based on the classic tale of Mean Girls.

[12:15] Tug Watson: Old Deuteronomy is king, and he has the three sons of Monkestrap, Tugger, and Macavity, and they're all sort of the good, the bad, and the hideous appendages of, I don't know, Old Deuteronomy or whatever. So Monkestrap, being the equivalent of the Prince of Wales, is an incoming freshman to Jellicle High. And I should be embarrassed, but I'm not because I have too much. And Grizabella, Bombalurina, Demeter, and the very cool foreign exchange student, Cassandra, are a year ahead of Monkestrap, and they're all abuzz, like, oh, the prince is coming, the crown prince is coming. And they all want to be in his good graces and maybe be, I don't know, the next princess of Jellicles, all except Grizabella, who of course is who Monkestrap finds most fascinating.

She's not giving him the time of day. But he pursues and he pursues and he pursues. And then for Christmas, he decides to give her a gift. And that gift is a mouse fur coat. And then she's like, oh, well, okay, I love you. Thank you for my coat. And he's like, you're welcome. We are now betrothed. So all is happening in preps for the wedding. And then at the engagement party, Monk's youngest brother, Macavity, he's like, hey, Griz, let's go outside. Let's have a chat. Maybe have a smoke. I don't know. And they run away together. And leaving Monkestrap single and devastated in the kingdom is all uproared, like, oh, no, what's poor freshman Monk gonna do?

[14:02] Mike Abrams: Tell me if this is too...

[14:04] Tug Watson: No, no, keep going. I'm following along. I got a giant grin on my face.

[14:08] Tug Watson: So years later, as Monkestrap is becoming heir to the throne and Old Deuteronomy's training him to, you know, host the ball, Monk gets a call from an unknown number. And it is a very shaky-voiced Grizabella. And she's like, I can't make it to the ball this year, but I do have a kitten. And he is your nephew to Macavity's son. His name is Tumble Brutus. Will you please take him and raise him to be good, not like his father? And Monkestrap says, sure, but you can't come. No one will want you there. So he invites Tumble Brutus, who's all full of, you know, bad energy, but a lot of fun and super cute. And that's what brings us to the ball. And then she decides she needs to give it one more go with her tribe.

She walks into my ball and she has the nerve to be wearing the mouse fur coat. And that's my backstory. And I said that to Kristen and to Richard after rehearsals for my second year. And they were just... Because they asked me, what are you thinking here? What's your relationship with Grizabella? What is it? It seems very unique. And I told them that. And they just stared at me completely deadpan. And I said, OK, thanks, bye.

[15:36] Mike Abrams: So not validating your story by any means.

[15:38] Tug Watson: No, no. No, the only people who validated it were, you know, my cast members who all, you know, I had ridiculous backstories for all of them.

[15:46] Mike Abrams: So, all right. I have a few follow up questions and then I can hear a few more of these because that was great. I do have backstories for my characters in Phantom as well.

[15:56] Tug Watson: Well, we're going to get to that. We'll get to Phantom in a little bit.

[16:02] Mike Abrams: OK, so first, I love the Mean Girls reference because I do. I have called Grizabella leaving the tribe. Her parallels to like the bald Britney and Lindsay Lohan's kind of totally from Grace before they, you know, Britney's made her comeback. I don't think Lindsay Lohan's bully made her comeback. So I do kind of find that Mean Girls parallel. In your like in your example, are you like Aaron Samuels as Monkestrap or are you just also in the Mean Girls school?

[16:29] Tug Watson: I think the Mean Girls reference really was just Grizabella and Bomb and Demeter. That's the only Mean Girls. So I'm imagining them as, you know, the girls in Mean Girls.

[16:43] Tug Watson: They're the three, yeah, they're the three Mean Girls and you're just in the school. I guess I'm imagining him as Prince William, you know, the early years.

[16:51] Mike Abrams: OK, so here's how we're going to do this next part then.

[16:53] Tug Watson: OK.

[16:54] Mike Abrams: Because I want to hear more of your backstories for everyone else. But I like to hear them in a burn book style. So give me give me the burn, give me the backstory and then what you would write in the burn book about the other cast members that you have these backstories with.

[17:09] Tug Watson: Oh, gosh. OK, about which one?

[17:12] Mike Abrams: Who do you have the I mean, I don't know how many you have. Like there's I like hearing about we can go through like just the song cats is probably the easiest. So well, there's none of them. You should know none of them are as deep as the Monk stories.

[17:21] Tug Watson: Are your backstories more as playing them with Monk or is it as if you were doing that?

[17:35] Tug Watson: I think they're just I think that story was really just for my own entertainment and to kind of in my head solidify who Grizz is to Monk.

[17:48] Mike Abrams: So, yeah, that makes sense. I think you have to write.

[17:51] Tug Watson: Yeah. Yeah.

[17:52] Tug Watson: You have because there's not there's not enough.

[17:54] Tug Watson: There's not enough like lyrics and writing to your point.

[17:57] Tug Watson: No poems don't have the stuff. And, you know, a little bit about like, all right, there's a couple for sure things that are happening, but you have to fill in the blanks. And, you know, I've had conversations with Grizabella's of like, do you play Victoria as your daughter or not? And then vice versa and like little things like that. And you get different answers. And I've I've had different answers from two different casts and cast members who played it totally different, but really also the same. You know, it's like they just didn't because it's not spoken. So you can kind of have some of that. And that's and that's the beauty of it. So you do the staging and you do the choreography. But what's what is up to the performer is, of course, how you emote it and how you react to them.

[18:39] Tug Watson: So I suppose that my story would be completely different if the actress who was Grizabella was significantly older than me and that she may have been a more maternal character. But Anastasia Lange, who played my Grizabella when I first joined, she and I were also roommates on the tour and also as roommates with our Tumble Brutus. So maybe that's why they're so involved in my stories. But Anna, Anna was she's she's my age. She is impossibly chic and and very, very beautiful. So it was easy for me to sort of give her, I suppose, a characterization of my peer. So so I let that evolve into maybe a love interest. And that's just sort of where it went.

[19:31] Tug Watson: And on these bus and truck tours, you you guys are all, you know, living together in very, very tight quarters. And you learn to just laugh at anything and everything. And story time with Tug about backstories of the Jellicles was a big part of our tour. And and so that's sort of where my story with Grizz came in. And it was really, I think, just because of who was playing her. And that moment that Monk and Grizz have when she first enters and he, you know, blocks off the kittens from touching her. And why why is she so dangerous? Is she dangerous just to them? Or is she also dangerous to Monk? And why is she dangerous to Monk? Because she broke his heart.

[20:14] Mike Abrams: I love it.

[20:15] Tug Watson: So story time with Tug.

[20:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah, fantastic. I love that you're just I can imagine you on in the back of the bus with her or even just, you know, in the hotel lobby with everyone gathered around. And you're it feels it feels very more Gus for for, you know, you did later and just telling different different backstories, which is honestly where I'm at now with, you know, 90 to 100 episodes of the show where we're just purely talking about trying to figure out the backstories because it's it doesn't you know, it's hard. Let's I want to let's move to I want to hear your backstories for I know you in 2016. You got to swing and you did Bus for Guns and Gut. You did that kind of bus Gus track. What were your backstories for the two of them?

[20:59] Tug Watson: Well, I had started I was a vacation swing for the revival. And when I first got that offer was just for a few weeks over the holidays and New Year as a singing in the Cats Chorus with no covering. And then I came back to the show in October of 2017 as Cats Chorus as well. And they were rehearsing me for Gus and Old Deuteronomy. I was living in San Diego at the time I was doing my MFA. So I was flying across the country to go do Cats and I'm stepping into it just as Cats Chorus was sort of perfect because I knew the music. They didn't really need to rehearse me. And, you know, I got the credit. And it was so dreamy just to be able to sit in the pit and watch Kristen Blodgett or William Waldrop conduct.

And, you know, I have my Broadway credit. But then when I came and they asked me to cover Gus and do I was I mean, I wasn't overwhelmed. I was very I was very well rehearsed and felt very prepared. But it was it was magical. And they did they did give me the three words. And shame on me. The only one I really remember for Gus was like intuitive. And that spoke to me because, like I said, a hundred years ago, when I auditioned for the show, I knew I was going to get it. And when I auditioned for the Broadway revival, I just I felt in my bones that I was going to get this, too. And I had imagined it when I was on stage as Monk, you know, on the tour. I was like, I can see the theater before me now.

This is going to happen. So when I got to start when I started rehearsing Gus, I just took in all of these, I guess, intuitive visions that I had and all these like dreamy things that I would suppose use as part of my gestural vocabulary when I was singing, you know, Gus's solo before he went into Peaks and the Pollicles. Just I would see everything in front of me. So almost like here is Gus, this actor with memories, but also here is a cat with magical powers and almost able to see the future and the past and past lives. So Gus was, to me, very, you know, he's not he's not Old Deuteronomy isn't the only one with visions as far as I thought in that moment when I was rehearsing Gus, I was rehearsing with Nathaniel Stampley, who was going in for Old Deuteronomy.

So I got less rehearsal time as Deut and much, much more for Gus. So I was really thinking about all of, you know, how would I how would I play this? What did this show look like? You know, all the shows that he had done and how much do I miss the past? And what I kept thinking about as how much I miss the past was playing Monkestrap and being much younger and much more agile, you know, doing doing theater in small towns and old opera houses across the country and how much I missed that. And so that was that's all that I was sort of singing about as Gus was.

[24:29] Mike Abrams: What are some of the other fun stories that you came up with? What's one that you don't think most people are going to say, oh, there's the obvious stuff that most of the cats fan Wikipedia has written about, and there's a bunch that people assume is truth. What's some of the stuff that you came up with that people would be surprised by?

[25:15] Tug Watson: Oh, gosh. I'm trying to think of a good one. I'd say that probably Alonzo and MonkaStrap have chemistry. What kind of chemistry? Romantic chemistry. I don't think that one's very well spoken about. I only think about that. It's not going to be well spoken about. I'm not going to speak well about it, or clearly, I suppose. But I came up with that one because when I was a swing on my third year of that tour, I went on for Alonzo a few times. And the way I kept looking at MonkaStrap and trying to save him from a cavity and trying to be behind him and be his right-hand man was kind of how I may have done to people I had a crush on. Just like, oh, see, I can be here, too. Pay attention to me. I'm here for you.

I love you. It's so interesting to hear how you come up with these things based on... Because you're looking at the character that you played for so long, and you're like, all right, I know it's coming. I know that backstory. I've already written that one in detail. And now you're seeing it from another lens. You're like, oh, I got to protect him. And now all of a sudden, there's this romantic interest that wasn't there before. It is so interesting how some of that comes up. And then that's how these things swirl. And that's how the fan fiction gets written.

[26:52] Tug Watson: Yeah. Oh, the fan fiction. I love the fan fiction. Well, the stories that I kind of had about Cillabub and Cassandra are kind of based on some fan fiction that I read. And that those characters with Porcupine and Tantamile are like otherworldly, more moon dust than they are earthly flesh. And to me, that just explains all of those witchy moments where Cassandra stands up and then Cillabub starts to sing moonlight. So I just kind of alien... I don't know, people with crystals in their homes, that's where those cats live. And I love it.

[27:31] Mike Abrams: Sounds like you need to write some fan fiction.

[27:33] Tug Watson: Oh my gosh, I could. I could.

[27:36] Mike Abrams: Okay. Well, one more question, then we're going to go to the next topic. What is your favorite backstory that you wrote? What's the one that I'm most passionate about? I mean, taking out Mom, because I know that that's the other one that you created. But what's the one where you're like, I will argue to the death about this one?

[27:55] Tug Watson: Grizz.

[27:56] Mike Abrams: Okay. Well, that's not good for this podcast, but if that's the case, we'll get to it at the end. If Grizz being the Delical Choice is you're going to fight to the death, that will be the last... No. Oh, no, that's not what you asked. You asked what my favorite backstory is.

[28:11] Tug Watson: Okay. So let's hear Grizz's backstory then. Maybe this will help my argument.

[28:14] Tug Watson: Well, it's very in line with MonkaStraps, of course, but I love the characters in some Angeloid Webber musicals of female characters with a heart of gold, and they're completely misunderstood, like Mary Magdalene. And I just love that archetypal character. So Grizabella, she may have made some mistakes, but she still has all this love and a want to be around others that feel love, but then there's rejection. And so her backstory after she leaves her engagement with MonkaStrap is, you know, she lives this life of squalor going from fire escape to fire escape and all across London. And somehow I see her in New York City as well. And, you know, getting lost in opium dens. And then somehow there's this humble Brutus character in her life, which just makes her back up to sobriety and back home to those that she loves. And then she dies when she gets what she wants. It's just so tragic. I love it.

[29:38] Mike Abrams: Hey, okay. How the marriage, like the engagement party, is that like, is that a story, you know, a tug story special or is that like well thought about? Because I don't think I've ever figured out that that was part of it with her leaving as an engagement party. That all happens before we even come on stage.

[30:02] Tug Watson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exposition. And it really was just my own ridiculous concoction. It is not in any of the binders.

[30:11] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So that and the giving the mouse is part of the, like, that's all before.

[30:17] Tug Watson: Well, I think actually I thought about it because I always wondered why she was wearing a fur coat and, you know, no one else was wearing a coat quite like that. I know that, you know, Tugger wears his thing and Rumpelstiltskin wears garters and tights for some reason. But I was so fascinated with this beautiful mouse fur coat. And I don't even know if it's a mouse, but it just makes sense because the cats, of course, would be a mouse. And that's just sort of where I went with it. It fascinated me.

[30:50] Tug Watson: I do think there's something I've talked about a little bit is the year before is Jellicle Ball and the year after is Jellicle Ball. And I like that you have an entire engagement party happening before this year's Jellicle Ball. Have you thought about last year's Jellicle Ball? Like who's as MonkaStrap, who's the choice? Who's like, how is that happening? How's that working?

[31:12] Tug Watson: I think the year before, MonkaStrap was much more of a novice, maybe still a teenager cat, and it was really still Old Deuteronomy's party. And there is, you know, whispers of whose years it's going to be and what role is MonkaStrap? Why is he making the speech and the toast and not Old Deuteronomy? I think those who went there, the one that went before, was probably one of Old Deuteronomy's many wives.

[31:44] Mike Abrams: Oh, interesting. One of his 99-plus wives.

[31:48] Tug Watson: Yeah, yeah, they say.

[31:50] Mike Abrams: So then does he and Grizabella, do they have any history? Like, like this seems like a much more problematic story if this is the trend.

[32:01] Tug Watson: Well, I think the reason why this story is the one that's put on stage is because perhaps the one who went to the Heaviside Lair is not one of the 99 wives of Old Deuteronomy. Making it unique.

[32:17] Tug Watson: Because he's basically serial killing his ex-wives, his current wives, up until this point. And we get to see the one, because he breaks the... This is his defense for why he's not a serial killer. We get to see one where he has a happy story. Maybe he's the one who called Griz and asked, hey, can you come this year and be a decoy for me?

[32:41] Mike Abrams: Yes, that's it. That is it. This is fascinating.

[32:47] Tug Watson: The other thing I have a question for you is I struggle with the Jellicle timeline. So if you're getting engaged as a teenager to Grizabella, how long is she leaving? Like, is it a year? Has she gone for 10 years? Like, what's her dark path with Macavity? How long is that?

[33:04] Tug Watson: I guess the question would be, what's a year to a cat? Because they're a kitten one day, and then six weeks later, they're like a teenager. So what's a Jellicle year? Is it one every calendar year or one every other month? So I think in a timeline, in a cat's timeline, I would say 10 years. She's gone 10 years.

[33:33] Mike Abrams: Okay, but to the humans, probably a year and a half.

[33:38] Tug Watson: Yeah, that's like your flight between Costa Mesa and wherever you're going next, right?

[33:45] Mike Abrams: So much happened, yeah.

[33:48] Tug Watson: Okay, we'll be back for more of this cat's catastrophe after a short break.

[33:59] Mike Abrams: But I do want to talk about Phantom. So I want to hear a little bit from you. I mean, I just saw the show. It was phenomenal. I'm one of the few people that hadn't seen it in 30 years, 35 years on Broadway. So I'd love to hear a little bit about when you got cast. You talked a little bit about this earlier, but about the parallels of being in another Andrew Lloyd Webber show, and then you teased. So I want to hear your backstory.

[34:27] Tug Watson: What was the first thing you wanted to hear about?

[34:32] Mike Abrams: The parallels you saw between doing multiple Andrew Lloyd Webber shows.

[34:36] Tug Watson: Sure. So I give a lot of credit to Kristen Blodgett again. So I did the cat's tour, and then I was in the tour of the revival of Evita as a swing, and she oversaw that as well. And then when I was finishing up grad school, she had asked me to come to New York and audition for the world tour of Phantom. And again, I had that feeling. I think I'm going to get this. And I was cast first in the world tour.

[35:11] Mike Abrams: Did you say you knew every word again?

[35:14] Tug Watson: I did not. No, I did. I had my audition packet, you know, very coached and down. I was ready. And I was cast as an ensemble member and to understudy the Phantom and Andre. And I was cast pretty much like just outside of the room. I did the audition, did the callback, and then I spoke with the casting director outside the room, and I said to her, you know, I'll do I'll do anything you want. I'll go on the tour, but I really do want to be at the Majestic one day. And, you know, that was just me kind of putting things out into the universe. And then I got the call from Seth Sklar-Hein, the production supervisor for the Broadway company. And he and I worked together on the Vita tour as well. And he said, listen, I saw your tape.

We have an open for a vacation swing. Do you want to do it? It's, you know, X amount of weeks. And I just thought, well, that's good because I got an apartment already in New York and I don't have a job. So I need to I need to have a job. And I was so happy. I was so, so excited. And I was playing Monsieur Rea for a number of weeks, and then that turned into more and more weeks and ended up not doing the tour because I stayed in New York. And the parallels to doing, you know, an Andrew Lloyd Webber show. Well, I don't know that I can speak so much to the similarities because all those three big shows that I've done are so

[36:45] Tug Watson: You can't really compare them stylistically speaking but, personally, I mean it was Cats and it was Phantom as part of those formative years for me growing up, you know, listening to CDs and tapes of, you know, musicals. So I knew the music as well as, you know, as well as anyone else who just listens to things on repeat. There are such vastly different shows like that's vastly, vastly different. I usually try to compare Cats to the characters and I, you know, I spent a lot of time looking at this one and I struggled. I struggled to like match them because usually you can tie personality types to most of the characters and I've done it with a bunch of different, you know, other Broadway shows and other TV shows and other stuff and I really struggled with this one.

There's just not, I mean, I think the closest I got was the Phantom of the Opera and Macavity is kind of both have the same kind of feel of like being ominous and dark but then it's also not because Macavity gives much more of a villain vibe than the Phantom did for me. So I just, I normally I'd ask you that question and I just couldn't come up with enough of a myself to even feel comfortable doing it. I don't know, I mean Victoria and Christine, you know, or Ray A who I'm playing tonight and Skimbleshanks just being really persnickety and, you know, fast-paced and organized to a fault. Yeah, but I don't know if I ever went on as Macavity I would probably make the mistake of like internalizing, you know, why is he so evil?

Is he misunderstood like the Phantom? And no, that's not how you should play Macavity. But no, I think really just the experience of doing these shows has just been something I'm very, I get emotional about because I loved them growing up and now they've become the biggest part of my professional career. So I'm eternally grateful and I'm also still really happy. I love doing them. I genuinely love doing those shows. That makes it, that makes it better, right? You know, I've heard as I've talked to cast members that have done all these different various productions. There are people that have loved Cats and were in Cats and, you know, they were deep into it and there are others that it was a job for them and they enjoyed it because it was a job and they worked with good people but it wasn't their favorite show and they, yeah, you know, they wanted their paycheck and I, you know, that's part of the part of the job that you kind of have.

And it is, it is a job and that's what you have to, you know, think of first like come to work do it well. And if you, if you love the job, I mean that's, that's of course a huge benefit. But it's also, I think it's extremely important to try to find out why you love them, you know, yeah, or what you love about them. And Cats, you know, I don't think anyone can really understand the show no matter how big of a fan you are until you're, you know, you are in it and you are embodying these characters because you know you're making such connections with people on stage not, not to say that you're, you know, rubbing around a sweaty body that, you know, that's very intimate. But the actual, these ridiculous backstories I said or I told you are they actually provided very, you know, real emotional connections I had with the other performers on stage.

And Phantom, you know, the ensemble they all have these great little feature parts and, you know, I love, I love all the parts that I cover. But it's not, it doesn't provide that same ensemble camaraderie that Cats is structured to do for the actor. Yeah, and it's, it seems like it's very intentionally done that way, you know, you have the twins looking ahead like there's a lot of the who's going to do what here like it is and then, you know, the ball you're on top of each other for 13 minutes or 12 minutes or whatever it is so you're, oh yeah, you're kind of, you're kind of forced to do that. Yeah, it's very vulnerable and exhausting and that's so fun. Yeah, but it's a show that's because of, you know, you said it there is a plot line there is a third line there is a piece to it but because it's not spoken to you directly like a lot of things like that's what the new movie tried to do the 2019 movie tried to add the plot line in for the average person that hasn't seen it and and that because it's not there it gives you like you have to do those little things around or it honestly doesn't doesn't make sense in some cases.

Right, yeah of course, yeah it's just some people it really is just a dance recital with adults and unitards. Yeah, and that's why there's there's such Cats haters out there is because there's some people that haven't thought about it went and saw it didn't really, you know, just followed a little bit along and then said what did I see and walked out and the reason I know this is because I have asked my, I've I've been dying to get somebody on the show that has a thoughtful hate for the show and I cannot find a single person because everybody I talk to that hates it I say well tell me what you don't like about it and they're just like I just didn't like it not my cup of tea, you know, it's like there's not anybody with a thoughtful reason of why they don't enjoy it and and that has made it, you know, kind of hard it's an easy punch line um which is honestly how this started because it was a punch line that started it and you know it's kind of taken off but but nobody really is given a well I didn't like this because of this because of that it's like you just don't like the idea and that's it and that's okay you know everything's not gonna be for everybody.

No, I mean it's I the kind of theater I'm most interested in as an audience member is anything that's polarizing, you know, if I hear a passionate love for something or a passionate hate for something I'm buying a ticket, yeah, um, you know because I, I that immediately puts me in the middle and you know I'm I love watching the, the uh, the theater of politics with why is something good and why is something bad and why should we hate it or ban it or cancel it, um and there are all these arguments about Cats but you're right I've not heard anything that's like truly thoughtful it's just I love that I love that so I'm the same way I don't want to at time of recording this I won't people can maybe figure it out but I'm not going to say what it was but there was a show with a little bit of controversy recently and um between a performer and some decisions and I will tell you I bought the show then I bought tickets the next day and I was not planning on seeing the show so so I don't think it also does lend to there's some some like not I don't want to say benefit of it because I don't think that like anybody's trying to spark I don't think it's they're doing controversy just to contribute I think I think the sports world does that um but but uh it definitely leaves I'm I'm with you I was not gonna see that show and I did immediately after I saw that because I was like well let's let's see what the fuss is all about.

I agree, yeah that's I mean it's it's exciting and I it puts me in a mood to be discerning but also always open to um enjoying it, you know. Oh your Phantom backstories, okay, um so we've got, we've got some really loyal and wonderful fans with Phantom and you know similar to uh Cats fans they are repeat attenders um and there are uh there's there's this one who um really really likes the auctioneer and and uh Monsieur Ray A and I I don't I don't mind having, you know, an Instagram uh connection a relationship with people if they're reaching out and they just love the show or they just want to thank me or they want to, you know, um ask my opinion on something I'm happy to engage. Um so this is what I I wrote about Monsieur Ray A, are you ready?

I'm ready. Okay, um I said I started it out with the secret is in his tilted hat I imagine him living alone in his late mother's flat pretending he's actually La Carlotta and he only wears vintage kimonos and costume tiaras from the opera popular whenever he's at home doing the dishes etc. etc. He only drinks floral forward liqueurs and legally changed his first name to Monsieur. He performs in drag one time a year to sold-out crowds of queer Parisian cognoscenti. So that's how I play Monsieur Ray A. I love that not only that that's what you wrote but that you wrote that back to a fan like that was just like someone sent you DM with what are you thinking and that is your response. Yeah, I mean this isn't how I play it outwardly, uh of course he's very much like Skimbleshanks he's he's got a job to do and he's very high strung but no one is just as they are at work, you know, when they go home they're a completely different person so I I have to not judge him as being rather a tyrant but as Monsieur Lefebvre says.

Yeah, you're, you know, you're right there was um there was a lot of um like memes and social media jokes about people when during the pandemic when they were stuck at home and you heard your significant other or your roommates work voice, you know, like when they're on a conference call and so yeah I love that you have your your work auctioneer Mr. Ray and then you have your here's what he's doing after. Right, right, um it's it's just fun for me but I also because I joke about it so much even when someone tells a lie long enough that it becomes sort of truth to them, yes, that's how these backstories affected me just I come up with these ridiculous little things I'll say them to, you know, two or three people to include um a fan uh and it just becomes truth.

That's, that's that, you know, I mean, uh this particular fan has uh um has taken a liking to me because I am also a very outspoken queer individual and and uh this person and their partner sees I guess um representation of themselves through Monsieur Ray and it just breaks my heart in in the best of ways when when they told me this because, you know, I'm not just doing this to to, you know, elevate myself or or just be as gay as possible on stage I am doing this because hey I love, you know, these characters but it's also I'm very aware that there are people in the audience who are uh here to be moved in a in a way and if that ridiculous little character translated into something significant to these fans then that's just beautiful to me.

Yeah, it's such a, it's such a true part it's a part of why I've argued that I think Cats and Phantom pride for both of them have run for so long is that there's probably a cat for everybody, you know, there's a personality that you can relate to um and that makes it to where it's like oh I, I could I can see a little bit of me in there and I could see somebody that I would maybe want to be or I'd be friends with and I think that's what some, you know, some of the fun of that show and so it is as cool as a performer to be able to for you to be able to kind of like experience that on the stage you're like we're in the audience kind of experiencing but for you to kind of give that moment to somebody it's really great but I think what you just said about Cats that's what makes Cats a home run and it's inarguable um is that these are not human characters they are not there's really no spoken word and yet human beings see themselves in a cat character and simply, you know, if you can't um put your finger on it as to exactly why well that just has to be good enough because um that feeling is something quite ineffable and period end of story, period, you know, period. Well let's do a quick rapid fire here to kind of close out the show before we get to the the other million dollar question.

[49:00] Mike Abrams: So if you could go, I know you got to play a lot of different cats, but if you could go on for one night, anybody, any cat, whether you're, you know, male, female, could do it, can't do it, who would you want to play for one night?

[49:16] Tug Watson: Well, I think, oh goodness. Oh, you know, it has to be Bombalurina. I want to do the sexy Macavity song.

[49:21] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah.

[49:24] Tug Watson: Yeah, exactly. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats?

[49:30] Tug Watson: My favorite cats, I'd say are the twins. I actually did, I played Coricopat in a regional production of Cats before I did the tour. And I just, I mean, I love, I am a twin to a twin sister myself. So, and I think, I think I'm a bit witchy.

[49:45] Mike Abrams: You can relate.

[49:49] Tug Watson: I can relate. Yeah. I'm a bit witchy like that as well. So, you know, I relate to those characters on many levels. And my least favorite cat I think has to be Macavity simply because I don't like the specialty costume. I think it's unflattering.

[50:05] Mike Abrams: Oh, I was going to say because you broke up your marriage.

[50:12] Tug Watson: No, no, it's good. It's good drama, but a bad costume is unforgivable to me.

[50:18] Mike Abrams: Okay. What's your favorite song in the show? In Cats?

[50:21] Tug Watson: Yes. In Cats.

[50:23] Tug Watson: The Ball. The Ball. I mean, how can you argue against that?

[50:28] Mike Abrams: Yeah. The war song section just makes me almost cry. If, here's my, my crossover one. If one of the cats was to haunt a theater, which one do you think would be best at it?

[50:39] Tug Watson: Well, I don't think Gus would be the best at it. I think he would be a little too, you know, obvious. He'd be like, oh, hello, how are you? Don't mind me. I'm just a cat. Um, so maybe not Gus. Best to haunt the theater. Uh, uh, probably Jenny Anydots because, um, people would be walking around being like, there's that tap dancing chorus girl again. And people are looking for a chorus girl, but really it's just a tap dancing cat. So they're looking in all the wrong places, which Jenny probably gets a kick out of. I'm telling you I can come up with these.

[51:13] Mike Abrams: I thought the twins, I thought the twins are already a little terrifying.

[51:16] Tug Watson: They are, but I think they've passed on that.

[51:20] Mike Abrams: That's fair. Okay. Um, the other one I was thinking about, which I think Tugger doing it would just be fun, but I don't think that would be the best. Um, I do think there's like a, a little bit of a weird Bustopher Jones version of it where he's like, you know, leave me my boxy. Like there's some stuff where I'm like, he's definitely going to be particular about some of these things.

[51:34] Tug Watson: Oh, that's smart. Yeah. Okay.

[51:43] Tug Watson: I don't, I don't know that he has the wherewithal to, um, you know, haunt. I think he, I don't even know that he would know that he's haunting.

[51:52] Mike Abrams: Right.

[51:55] Tug Watson: I don't think he'd be physically capable to go into all the places that, you know, the Phantom does in that show, uh, you know, all over the place. I was like, ah, Bustopher is going to just be in that box the whole time.

[52:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah. He probably thinks he's still alive.

[52:04] Tug Watson: Yeah.

[52:08] Mike Abrams: Okay. Million dollar question. Um, we've now, we've got a deep Grizabella backstory. Do you think she is the right Jellicle choice this year? Um, or do you think Old Deuteronomy should have killed a different life or somebody else?

[52:19] Tug Watson: Um, for the sake of it being a piece of, you know, entertainment, sure. She's probably the best, um, or not entertaining, like thoughtful, I suppose, entertainment with, you know, a character with an arc. But, um, I also think there is something very, um, and I thought this, I thought this for a long time. Uh, and it is just a funny little backstory I'm saving for you. Uh, there is something very British musical and vaudevillian about the entire show.

[52:50] Tug Watson: Uh, and I thought one time on stage, oh, how funny would it be since we've engaged the audience by inviting them to our ball or to watch us dance or even telling them what a Jellicle cat is. We've let them in on all these things. Why don't we invite them to have some, uh, uh, autonomy here? Who do they want to see go to the Heaviside Layer? Um, and we, Edwin drew the show and we just have them put it to a vote.

[53:18] Mike Abrams: I am so glad you said that because that has been my original thesis from day one.

[53:26] Tug Watson: No, really?

[53:27] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So my original thesis from day one has been, well, has, has been, I saw Leona Lewis originally in 2016. So I thought I'd watch The X Factor and that's a voted on by the fans. And so I voted as a fan who I wanted, but I think the same thing you could have.

[53:42] Tug Watson: That's what you meant. I've listened to you say, you talk, talk about the Leona Lewis.

[53:46] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So that is where mine comes from is I want same thing. I want fan voted America, not just America, world votes and votes. And I, and I have gone even further. I think you can do this on tour where you have multiple stops in a day where they, you vote on, let's say you start on Monday in a place or Tuesday in a place you vote on Tuesday. And then that character is not eligible the next day. And then again, and you, you know, you just kill like six cats in the city.

[54:19] Tug Watson: But do we do more than just one vote? Like they do in Druid? You know, is it who dies? Who's the lover? Who's the killer or something like that?

[54:23] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah. That could be interesting. And it's a different show every night.

[54:27] Tug Watson: I think you could. I mean, the fact that there's at least in the Broadway revival, there's like 30 plus of you, right? Like there's, there's a lot of things you could do with that because there, you know, you could have, you could, I mean, there's so many backstories you've talked about. Like you could say, is it going to take over? Is there like all these other things you could ask? Like you could have a lot there.

[54:38] Mike Abrams: Right. I think you could, you could have who, I don't know, there's just endless, but I do agree. Like it's because to me, the actual arc is, is everyone's presenting their best self for why they should be chosen.

[54:56] Tug Watson: Right.

[54:56] Mike Abrams: And so it does feel like a singing competition and that's why the audience should vote. And I think you could rig it up very easily to have buzzers in there.

[55:09] Tug Watson: But I also think it shouldn't be a cat who, you know, has already had like a complete nine life experience. Like if, if we're talking reincarnation here, you know, you come back to improve what you've, what you've already done in your previous lives and make it the ultimate life. So it shouldn't be someone who's, you know, very the whole point of going to the Heaviside Layer is to come back as a new life.

[55:37] Mike Abrams: Right.

[55:37] Tug Watson: So it shouldn't be someone who is very clearly, um, wise beyond their years or, uh, happy and content. It should be someone with a little bit, um, more, uh, more to improve upon.

[55:55] Mike Abrams: Uh, so maybe, you know, I think you're the first person that's tackled this the same way I did, which is what I love, because you're, you're basically saying most people argue who has had the most fulfilled life and this is why it's their turn. That's why it's good.

[56:03] Tug Watson: No, they're done.

[56:08] Mike Abrams: You're saying I want to vote who has the longest potential career arc. Cause if I'm Simon Cowell, I'm going to try to sign them later.

[56:12] Tug Watson: Right.

[56:18] Mike Abrams: And to my, to my label. And so I want someone who's got years of performance left. And my argument was the X Factor usually made groups. And if you look at Direction, Fifth Harmony, all these other groups that have, have turned into your point, like they, they break up and now you've got another section of Harry Styles and the career arc. But I put Tugger and Mustapha's together because they've got, that's my vote. That was my vote from day one.

[56:37] Tug Watson: Right. So who would be your vote? If you are voting, let's just say on, you know, a normal day performance.

[56:44] Tug Watson: So I think part of what your point is, is who, who delivered that night the best as well, knowing that it's going to be different every night. But if you were voting as a Edwin Drew style X Factor style one night, who's getting your vote?

[57:02] Tug Watson: Macavity. Macavity finally getting his vote.

[57:09] Mike Abrams: Yeah. We, we need him to stop terrorizing. He needs to come back and, and, and do better.

[57:13] Tug Watson: Yeah. So you're saying it's like, he's, he's had a rough life.

[57:17] Tug Watson: Yeah. Like this will be an improvement. It's not a reward. It's almost a punishment because we need him to come back better.

[57:25] Mike Abrams: I wouldn't say punishment because he is still angelical. And, and I want to say that family has unconditional love. So without it being a killing, you know, of someone, it is more a, you need to sit down, sir, and think about some things and then come back when you're ready.

[57:41] Tug Watson: You know, say about Old Deuteronomy, if, if with your theory that every previous one was killing one of his lives, that's not my theory. You need to be better. I'm sending each one of you every year until I finally choose.

[58:00] Mike Abrams: It's not my true theory. It's just a funny little backstory based on, based on those conspiracy theories, you know.

[58:05] Tug Watson: Well, I think I, I would say Old Dew is not eligible in my production or in my world of Cats because he has already, he's already done it. He's good to go. You know, he's, he's had good lives. He's had worse lives. This is his best life. He's, you know, he's the King of the Jellicles. He's good.

[58:23] Mike Abrams: Um, you know, that's, that's sort of why Grizabella's up on that. She's, she's up for consideration.

[58:30] Tug Watson: Um, Macavity, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't think the twins or Cassandra should do it because they are good to go there. They've had their good life too. So I don't know.

[58:42] Mike Abrams: I mean, it doesn't matter what you think anymore. It's going to be an audience vote.

[58:45] Tug Watson: Yeah, exactly. It could, it could be, you know, um, Mungojerry going up and, you know, that would be a huge production number. That was, um, the one song I had stuck in my head the first time I saw it for like a week was Mungojerry and Rumpleteazer over and over and over again.

[59:03] Tug Watson: Cause it's repetition. They just say it over and over and over again. I'm so happy I never covered those parts. It was so difficult.

[59:12] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[59:12] Tug Watson: Yeah. So, so, so incredibly difficult, but I'm also not negating the, the singers and the cats chorus, um, as being eligible to go to the Heaviside Lair as well, because they are still part of the company and they do cover these cats and, but they are without a body. So maybe bring them back as kittens.

[59:29] Tug Watson: I love it. I think even more potential to this. I'm very fair. You see, I have, this has been a blast. Uh, so many theories that I hadn't thought about backstories. I love, um, this has been great. How can, I mean, clearly you're responding to DM. So how can people, uh, stay in touch with you on social media? And, um, this will come out right around the end of Phantom. So, you know, this is, this will be the end of a historic run for the show. Um, but how can people stay in touch with you?

[59:56] Tug Watson: Uh, my Instagram is, uh, aunt tug, A-U-N-T underscore tug.

[1:00:02] Mike Abrams: I love it. There'll be story time with, with coming up.

[1:00:08] Tug Watson: Yeah. And you are, anyone is welcome to reach out and ask for a funny little story. Why not? I think that can be your, it could be your TikTok. If you need to, you know, if you need another thing to kind of, to build on.

[1:00:18] Tug Watson: On TikTok is that sounds so stressful to me. It's so time consuming.

[1:00:23] Mike Abrams: I know it's a lot.

[1:00:23] Tug Watson: Um, but yeah, I am now a consumer and flight user of it for this podcast. Thank you so much.

[1:00:30] Mike Abrams: Well, this has been incredible. Thank you for, for coming on.

[1:00:34] Tug Watson: Thanks for indulging me. It's, it's fun to revisit these little things and to talk about my favorite shows. So I appreciate it.

[1:00:45] Mike Abrams: So glad to have you. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of the podcast. Break down the Cats fee to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok at The Wrong Cat Died or check out our website.