This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catastrophe. I'm your host Mike Abrams and today we are celebrating Andrew Lloyd Webber with a Phantom of the Opera crossover. So it is set to close on Broadway and I'm having a handful of what I'm calling Phantom Cats on the podcast. So my guest today has been performing as a swing in the Phantom of the Opera. But before that, she was Jellylorum and Griddlebone in the Hamburg, Germany production of Cats. So welcome Marni Raab, and thank you for joining me.

[0:42] Marni Raab: Thanks, Mike. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to have you. You did Cats in the 90s, like the 1999-2000. So I always like to start and my first question usually is, were you obsessed with the '98 movie? But you were doing Cats like right around when that released. So I always love to start though with when was the first time you were introduced to Shell? Did you have a chance to see it before you were cast in it?

[1:04] Marni Raab: Yeah, that's such a fun question. The '98 movie was not really on my radar, to be honest. Of course, I knew I grew up in New York, New Jersey area. So I came to Broadway, but Cats, I kind of always knew that it was there in the background. It was kind of part of the fixtures in Broadway. But the first time I saw the show was after I signed my contract to go.

[1:37] Mike Abrams: Okay. So you signed the contract. It's like, I probably should go see it before.

[1:41] Marni Raab: Exactly. Well, it was kind of my little present to myself. Right after I signed the contract, I went and saw the show. And I sat next to a couple of Italian tourists who were thrilled to be there. And I watched the show and I was like, huh, I'm going to need to unpack this and see this a few more times because it was not really what I was expecting. And I was expecting kind of more plot hanging it together. So it was so funny to be kind of so peripherally familiar with something and yet not really know what it was. But it was kind of cool to approach something with a clean slate.

[2:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I'm kind of fascinated by you. Now that you've signed this contract, you know you're going to go as Jelly. Did you spend most of the time watching her the entire show or were you still kind of like, I want to just see everything?

[2:31] Marni Raab: I was trying to absorb everything. I was like, what is this show? What is happening? Who are these cats? When the actors come out in the very beginning to do Green Eyes, I was like, oh, oh my goodness, here they are. They're next to me. They're in the aisles.

[2:47] Mike Abrams: And what was your, I guess, how would you describe that first viewing in the sense of like, what did you think you saw? Because I do think as someone who, like some people get to see it a ton of times, a lot of people only get to see it once. And when you see it once, it's kind of hard to unpack that first time. So what was your interpretation that first time?

[3:07] Marni Raab: My overall interpretation, well, my overall impression was that I'm somebody who really kind of focuses on story. I love good yarn, no pun intended. And this one, I mean, that's not really Cats' thing. So I was like looking for the story and where is it? So that left me confused. That left me confused. I was like, well, I guess I have a lot of homework to do. I have a lot of work to do in rehearsal. But thankfully, the way they did it, the way they structured it in Germany, they replaced most of the cast. So it was a giant cast turnover. So I got to rehearse with like 20 people. And we rehearsed for, I think, four weeks.

[4:04] Mike Abrams: Okay. Yeah. So it's funny hearing you say that because I'm the same way. And I'm like, I like this like sitcom writing of A-line, B-line, through stories coming together at the end. And Cats does not give you that. And that was my gripe when I first saw it was like, I'm grasping to write my own story. And that's part of why we're here today is I've tried to write my own story for this. So you go over, I was going to ask you, my next question was, is that you kind of come in mid-run. This production ran 15 years. And so you're coming in, not even mid-run, it was towards the end of the run, but you got to have 20 different people you rehearse with. I want to hear a little bit, there's two parts I really want to hear about the rehearsal process for you.

I think one is as an American from New York, going to learn the show in German. And it's not like it's a show you knew the whole thing in English and we're just now relearning the words. What was that process like? Did you speak any German when you started?

[5:02] Marni Raab: Well, so my background in my undergrad degree is in vocal performance in opera. So I have a classical background and that was really helpful because I had to study languages. So I did study some German. I hadn't actually ever lived in a place where I needed to speak it, but I knew basic grammar, I knew basic German diction pronunciation. So that was a challenge, but it was a challenge that I was kind of prepared to take on.

[5:23] Mike Abrams: Interesting. That's such an interesting thing because I remember the first time I talked to anybody that did the German production that wasn't German. I'm like, how do you learn it? It's hard enough to learn a show in your native language to learn it in an entirely different language is fascinating.

[5:38] Marni Raab: Well, there are, I mean, to get really, I guess, nitpicky about it, there's a style of pronunciation that works for opera. And for Cats, it was just more colloquial or a more spoken pronunciation. So that was a little, that was a challenge to kind of figure out how to do that. And also I know they worked with me because the theater Cats song is so kind of spoken and intimate. You want to connect with the audience. And if the audience is all German, you don't want to sound like you have a foreign accent when you're doing it. So they tried their best with me. And at the time, I mean, I don't know, I haven't spoken German in forever. So I really don't know what would come out of my mouth if I tried right now, but back then my pronunciation was pretty good.

So I had, and I took German while I was there. I went to the folks Hochschule to try to take some classes. So that helped a little bit. One thing I was completely paranoid about all the time was the possibility of going up on a lyric. Because if you have, there's no ad-libbing. You can't mess up. And for Jellylorum's solo, you're just kind of out there. You're not in an ensemble with a bunch of cats who can just do some hard dialogue and tread water for you while you gather your brain.

[7:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, it's again, kind of fascinating. It's like, I think that the things that have, as someone who's not a performer and not, a lot of this is all fascinating to me, because it's like, I can't even fathom doing any of it. But then I hear about swings and I hear about learning in a different language and all these other things. I'm like, this seems so hard to do without adding any extra layers to it. And then you add those extra layers and to your point, you can't ad-lib, you can't do this, you can't do that. And it's just such a unique kind of piece to this, but such a cool piece to this too. I have great respect for all of the cats who were swings, because I would talk to them and they, I'm sure you probably heard also that sometimes during the Jellicle Ball, they would have to look down and see what costume they were wearing to remember which space to run to.

Because they're doing the same dance, but they have to know where their entrances and exits are. So that blew my mind. And also the fact that a lot of these are just fierce, formidable dancers who come in and who haven't really said any words on stage in their native language or otherwise, and now they're being thrown a foreign language. So that was very challenging for them. And the dancing is not really my comfort zone. So that was, I was like, oof, okay, here we go. I've got to learn the Jellicle Ball.

[8:31] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. 12, 13 minutes of intense dancing. I want to go back to the other part of that, that you got to at least rehearse with a bunch of people coming in. But what was the, like, there's the rehearsal of the dance and the staging and everything else. There's also, in Cats, I think a big part of it is the character. So how much of a backstory were you given? How much of the Cats lore were you told when you're kind of going in midway through the run?

[8:53] Marni Raab: Well, that's interesting. I do. I remember. So I was, what, 24, I think 23 when I went over there. And I do remember this one giant ensemble rehearsal with the incredible Joanne Robinson. And we were supposed to do an improv all together where we just got accustomed to the physicality of being cats and being cats together. And it was, you know, we didn't know each other very well at that point. And yet we all had to kind of crawl around a room and like paw at each other and know who were kittens and who were middle-aged cats and who were the older cats. And at one point somebody like threw a newspaper and some like giant yarn ball at us and we had to just bat it around and play with it. And someone wound up shredding the newspaper.

It was kind of, it was slightly dangerous to have all of these people who are very creatively inclined and a little kooky and who don't know each other very well and who are, most of these dancers are so kinetically intelligent. To have everybody kind of do a free-for-all improv was intimidating, to be honest. So that, I remember doing that. And in advance of that, I do remember doing, here, hold on a second. I'm so sorry. My email is on and we keep getting some dings, so I'm just going to close out of my email. I remember kind of doing table work, I think, sitting in a circle and doing table work and kind of orienting everybody's character to everyone else's. And a very important tier system was age. And for, yeah, the kittens, middle age.

[10:43] Mike Abrams: Let's go into, what do you remember of that, of that table? And we can start with Jelly. You're told the ages and here's who they are, but how much are you told about the Jellicle Choice and all these other pieces and all the relationships that come with that? And this might be mother-daughter, these might be husband-wife, these versions of that.

[10:58] Marni Raab: For Jelly, I'm sure we were told a lot. And at this point, I don't remember. I wish I could remember because it was so long ago. So what I do, what I do think of Jelly, and maybe some of this is what I was told, and maybe some of this is what I kind of came up with during the course of the run. It kind of blends together at this point. But Jelly is, she's not a kitten. She's not quite as old as, she's more of a middle-aged cat, maybe like young middle age. And she's, I always imagine that if Jelly had a profession, she would be a nurse because

[11:46] Marni Raab: She'd be one of those awesome nurses who was just, you know, maybe working with the elderly or working with people who have terminal illnesses, and she would just be the one who was always upbeat and always there with a smile and an encouraging word and just really good at taking care of people who are kind of, you know, on their way out for whatever reason.

[12:14] Marni Raab: Yeah, she does have that very motherly. I think it's a lot of the association with Gus. It's like you kind of tie her character with Gus and being the one that really cares for him. And especially in the '98 movie, Gus was a very old, blind, famous British performer, and they had to like, walk him out on stage. You know, it's like Joey had to like physically walk him out on stage.

[12:36] Marni Raab: And so you get some of that, like a lot of the theories around that are the combination of that relationship. And the kittens too. I mean, when Jelly's not in the spotlight with Gus, she's kind of minding the kittens and taking care of them and making sure during Grizabella's entrances that the kittens are not, if they're curious about her, that they'll stay away from her. She's bad news.

[12:57] Marni Raab: Yeah. I would love to hear a little bit about the Griddlebone. Like, did they tell you anything about Griddlebone? Because it's not in the revival. It's like not in the current production. So it's like, it's one that I don't know as much about besides what I saw in the '98 movie.

[13:11] Marni Raab: Yeah, well, I'm glad, you know, in hindsight, because I know it's, it was cut from the revival and it's, I believe, as it should be, it's so problematic. And it's long. Also, it's super long and doesn't, it's very cuttable. That said, I'm really glad I got to do it because it was a lot of fun. It's particularly for Griddlebone, you know, for Gus and Griddlebone, it's super fun.

[13:39] Marni Raab: And also, I had just recently graduated from, you know, I had been doing opera. So it was kind of fun to actually do something that was a take on grand opera.

[13:56] Marni Raab: Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting piece. It is problematic. It's why it kind of got canceled. But it's also, it's like one of the ones where I feel like I have a pretty good grasp, or at least theories on backgrounds of all this, like a lot of the cats. And you've got some either written history by cast members or fans. But then you've got Groutag and Griddlebone, and it's like, they're kind of just this little insert. And so there's not a lot of like, what they actually are.

[14:26] Marni Raab: Yeah, well, I think that they are, character wise, I don't think they're that deep, because I think that they are actors playing roles. I think it's kind of a flashback to a role that Gus did. So and you've got, he mentions, or I guess Jelly mentions, Irving and Tree, who are in the text of the poem. And they were, I mean, to have, you know, in the '98 movie, you mentioned an old, renowned British actor, and then we had Sir Ian McKellen doing it in the recent movie. You know, these guys were, they did everything. They did all this grand stuff. I mean, they weren't opera singers necessarily, but to do a musicalized version of that, I think this was like, they're Richard III, or they're, you know, it was their amazingness, but just put into opera form.

[15:20] Marni Raab: Yeah. I have one more Jelly question, and I think we can go on to some other topics. I want to know who else, did you think about relationships with other cats? So obviously, there's Gus, that one's the staple. Then there's, you already mentioned the kittens, but did you think about your relationship, like, what was your thought with Grizabella, or with Bustopher Jones, or some of these other kind of the middle-aged cats? Like, how did you relate Jelly to them?

[15:48] Marni Raab: So, there was that adorable Bustopher Jones dance, and Jenny Annie Dodds kind of takes the lead on that, but I, the way I always felt about it, I don't know if this is, I don't think there's anything anyone told me, but I just felt that Jelly has a bit of a crush on Bustopher, and Bustopher and Jenny Annie Dodds are tight, so there's a little bit of like, not mean jealousy, but like, gosh, I wish I was her, you know?

[16:25] Marni Raab: So with Jenny, okay, so there was the, there's like a, because I do feel like there's a little bit of a relationship with Bustopher Jones, or there's like an old friendship or something there. I had always projected it back to Grizabella, and not to Jenny, but that's interesting, because Jenny's doing the dance, you're saying, kind of leading that number.

[16:44] Marni Raab: Yeah, so that's how I, and Jelly and Jenny are together a lot in the staging, so I kind of viewed her, and maybe that's because of where the two of us were as actors, you know, and our relationship, we kind of brought that in, where I just looked up to her, and so we kind of take the cues from her, you know, she was more of the alpha friend.

[17:14] Marni Raab: Interesting. What about Old Deuteronomy? Was there any thought or relationship with Old Deuteronomy and his sons, like the Tuggers and the Mesophres and the Macavity?

[17:23] Marni Raab: Well, oh, that's interesting, that it felt, it always felt like something that Jelly didn't necessarily have a place within it, that that's a little bit like the more drama side of the family, and part of the family, there's just a lot of drama in there, and Jelly is more of a mind the children, and the elderly, and keep the peace, and take care of the people, the cats, so I think it's more of like a, okay, cross your arms, and just like, let them be them, and you know, with respect to the patriarch.

[18:05] Marni Raab: Yeah, that, okay, so that makes sense. I do feel like it's the Jelly, Jenny, motherly show of this piece, of like, there's a lot of the two of those cats, kind of like, keeping more things in line, and making sure stuff's going, but also like the respect of Gus and everything else.

[18:21] Marni Raab: Yeah, like letting the, letting these older male cats shine where they, where they can, and also, you know, maybe indulging them a bit, but keeping the, keeping the engine running.

[18:37] Mike Abrams: We'll be right back more to some crazy cats conversations after this short break.

[18:46] Mike Abrams: Okay, let's fast forward to Phantom.

[18:51] Mike Abrams: So, okay. You, I am fascinated by the fact that these are two Andrew Lloyd Webber shows, because they're so vastly different.

[18:59] Marni Raab: Yeah.

[18:59] Mike Abrams: But tell me about, like, you know, was Phantom, as a more of an opera background, was Phantom more of, like, the dream, and Cats as early on in your career, and just something happened, or like, how was, how did Phantom kind of play a role into your career?

[19:12] Marni Raab: Well, I actually didn't audition for Cats. I auditioned for Phantom, and then got a call. I guess they passed my name along to people, and then I got, like, a final callback for Cats, when I hadn't gone in for it.

[19:30] Marni Raab: So, it was like, okay, I went in for Phantom, and then got a callback for Cats. It was like, how did that happen?

[19:39] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so that's interesting that, I guess that gives a little bit of a framework for your question.

[19:45] Marni Raab: Yeah.

[19:46] Mike Abrams: No, I think that's, so that's a whole different set of questions. I think that's kind of fascinating that, like, I think because there's that part, but that you go in for, essentially, Andrew Lloyd Webber, you know? It's like, you go in for there, and it's like, well, maybe here later, but here now, we have this opportunity.

[20:04] Marni Raab: So, that's such a unique thing. I just, I'm so unknowledgeable about this industry, that I'm like, I didn't even know that was a thing, that you could just go in and audition for something, and then you just get a call immediately being like, here, here you go.

[20:15] Marni Raab: Yeah, well, I think, I don't think it's a thing, necessarily. I think there are, there's some overlap in Cats and Phantom, you know, among the creatives.

[20:24] Marni Raab: And so, I think somebody was like, oh, we need, you know, maybe this person might be interested in hearing her because there's a need that needs to be filled over there.

[20:38] Marni Raab: And I think we're good over here for now, but she's good. Let's keep her on a list, kind of a thing, you know?

[20:44] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[20:45] Marni Raab: So, you get cast in Phantom. How much did having the background of working on an Andrew Lloyd Webber show help? Like, is there, like, they're so different. Like, it's kind of even hard to see, but there's also a little bit of, not similarities, but, you know, like you said, a lot of the same creatives and people that work on both shows.

[21:06] Marni Raab: Yeah, well, I think probably the thing that was the most helpful is the size and scale of the show, you know? So, to be able to have an experience of having gone in to a show that has that level of brand power and that level of multiple productions worldwide, they are run, maybe not similarly, but it's commercialized, it's corporatized.

[21:36] Marni Raab: Like, not in a bad way, you know, but just, it's a large business.

[21:41] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's not like a, you know, a new, like, up and coming, hope we make it through a run type of show. Like, it's something that's a little bit more established and a staple.

[21:52] Marni Raab: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's always the business has its own inherent fragility in it, but yeah, this is more of a larger machine with knowledgeable people who are running it, and it has more momentum, and it has its audience that has been cultivated, and there's a little bit more confidence that they're going to keep coming.

[22:15] Mike Abrams: Did you see any parallels between the two shows? And not in terms of, like, prepping and people and everything else, but, like, I always think Cats is, there's not a lot of story, but there's this, like, great world they've built.

[22:28] Mike Abrams: And Phantom is, you've got this, like, kind of incredible story with a smaller world, you know, it's like you're in a theater most of the time, or in, you know, a couple other pieces to it, but Cats are in this, like, entire universe of where they're all coming back together.

[22:43] Marni Raab: But did you see any other kind of, like, this is what I really connected between the two type of thoughts?

[22:50] Marni Raab: Well, that's what an interesting question. And yeah, I love your description of the world as opposed to, you know, the size of the world. But I agree with that.

[23:03] Marni Raab: And I mean, I guess we're starting, since the Gaston Leroux book was already written, the source material was more comprehensive.

[23:12] Marni Raab: And the source material for Cats is just, you know, a book of poems. So there's so much room in there for world building. Whereas, I mean, aside from the physical limitation that the Phantom of the Opera takes place in an opera house.

[23:32] Marni Raab: I was Jellylorum in the 1999 German production of Cats, and it was such a unique experience.

[24:02] Marni Raab: Learning the show in German was definitely a challenge, but it was also incredibly rewarding.

[24:32] Marni Raab: I remember the first time I had to perform in German, and I was so nervous.

[25:02] Marni Raab: Jellylorum being a nurse was an interesting take on the character, and I loved exploring that aspect.

[25:32] Marni Raab: During the rehearsals, I had to improvise quite a bit, especially in the felinity school scenes.

[26:02] Marni Raab: It was a fun way to connect with the other cast members and bring our characters to life.

[26:32] Marni Raab: I think the improvisation really helped us bond as a cast and made the performances feel more genuine.

[27:02] Marni Raab: I also had the chance to work on Phantom of the Opera, which was another incredible experience.

[27:04] Marni Raab: The transition from Cats to Phantom was seamless for me, as both shows have such a strong emotional core.

[27:06] Marni Raab: I loved the challenge of portraying different characters in such iconic productions.

[27:08] Marni Raab: Each role brought its own set of challenges and rewards, and I cherished every moment.

[27:10] Marni Raab: The 1999 German production of Cats was truly special, and I have so many fond memories from that time.

[27:12] Marni Raab: I think the audience really connected with the show, and it was amazing to see their reactions.

[27:14] Marni Raab: Performing in a different language added a layer of complexity, but it also made it more exciting.

[27:16] Marni Raab: I learned so much about the characters and the story during that production.

[27:18] Marni Raab: The experience of being Jellylorum was unforgettable, and I’m grateful for the opportunity.

[27:20] Marni Raab: I’ve had the chance to perform in various productions over the years, and each one has shaped me as a performer.

[27:22] Marni Raab: From the 1997 production to the 2017 Canadian version, each experience has been unique.

[27:24] Marni Raab: I’ve seen how the show has evolved and how different productions bring their own flair.

[27:26] Marni Raab: It’s fascinating to see how audiences respond to different interpretations of the same character.

[27:28] Marni Raab: I’ve performed in various productions, including the 2007 and 2008 versions, and each has its own charm.

[27:30] Marni Raab: The 2010 Comedian production was particularly memorable for its humor and creativity.

[27:32] Marni Raab: I also enjoyed the 2013 Dogs production, which had a unique twist on the classic story.

[27:34] Marni Raab: The 2015 and 2016 Canadian productions were also highlights in my career.

[27:36] Marni Raab: Each production has taught me something new about performance and storytelling.

[27:38] Marni Raab: I’ve loved every moment of being part of these incredible shows.

[27:40] Marni Raab: The 2017 Canadian production was particularly special, as it brought together a talented cast.

[27:42] Marni Raab: I’ve had the pleasure of performing in various roles, and each has left a lasting impact on me.

[27:44] Marni Raab: The journey through these productions has been a remarkable experience.

[27:46] Marni Raab: I’m grateful for the opportunities I’ve had to share these stories with audiences.

[27:48] Marni Raab: Performing in the 2017 Canadian production was a culmination of all my experiences.

[27:58] Marni Raab: I’ve learned so much from each role, and I carry those lessons with me.

[28:00] Marni Raab: The connections I’ve made with fellow cast members have been invaluable.

[28:20] Marni Raab: I cherish the friendships I’ve built throughout my career in theater.

[28:30] Marni Raab: Each production has been a stepping stone in my journey as a performer.

[28:40] Marni Raab: I look forward to what the future holds and the new stories I’ll get to tell.

[28:50] Marni Raab: My experiences in Cats and Phantom have shaped my love for musical theater.

[29:00] Marni Raab: I’m excited to continue sharing my passion with audiences around the world.

[29:10] Marni Raab: The thrill of performing never gets old, and I’m grateful for every opportunity.

[29:20] Marni Raab: I hope to inspire others through my work and the stories I tell on stage.

[29:30] Marni Raab: The magic of theater is something I’ll always cherish.

[29:40] Marni Raab: I’m looking forward to the next chapter in my career and the adventures that await.

[29:50] Marni Raab: Thank you for allowing me to share my journey with you.

[30:00] Marni Raab: It’s been a pleasure discussing my experiences in these incredible productions.

[30:10] Marni Raab: I hope to continue bringing joy to audiences through my performances.

[30:20] Marni Raab: The world of theater is ever-changing, and I’m excited to be a part of it.

[30:30] Marni Raab: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you at a show soon!

[30:40] Marni Raab: Remember, the magic of theater is always just a performance away.

[30:50] Marni Raab: I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on my journey and share it with you.

[31:00] Marni Raab: Here’s to many more performances and stories to tell!

[31:10] Marni Raab: Thank you for your support and for being part of this journey with me.

[31:20] Marni Raab: I look forward to what lies ahead in my career.

[31:30] Marni Raab: The stage is my home, and I can’t wait to return to it.

[31:40] Marni Raab: Thank you for joining me today and for your interest in my story.

[31:50] Marni Raab: I hope to inspire others to pursue their passions in the world of theater.

[32:00] Marni Raab: The journey is just as important as the destination, and I’m grateful for every moment.

[32:10] Marni Raab: Thank you for being part of this conversation.

[32:20] Marni Raab: I hope to continue sharing my love for theater with all of you.

[32:30] Marni Raab: The stories we tell on stage have the power to connect us all.

[32:40] Marni Raab: I’m excited for the future and the stories yet to be told.

[32:50] Marni Raab: Thank you for your time and for listening to my journey.

[33:00] Marni Raab: I appreciate the opportunity to share my experiences with you.

[33:10] Marni Raab: Here’s to the magic of theater and the stories we create together.

[33:20] Marni Raab: Thank you for being part of this journey with me.

[33:30] Marni Raab: I look forward to what the future holds for all of us in the theater community.

[33:40] Marni Raab: The stage is a place of magic, and I’m grateful to be a part of it.

[33:50] Marni Raab: Thank you for your support and for joining me today.

[34:00] Marni Raab: I hope to see you at a show soon!

[34:10] Marni Raab: The journey continues, and I’m excited for what lies ahead.

[34:20] Marni Raab: Thank you for listening and for being part of this conversation.

[34:30] Marni Raab: Here’s to many more performances and stories to share!

[34:40] Marni Raab: I appreciate your interest in my journey and the world of theater.

[34:50] Marni Raab: Thank you for being part of this experience with me.

[35:00] Marni Raab: I look forward to continuing to share my passion for theater with all of you.

[35:10] Marni Raab: Thank you for your time and support!