This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams. And today we are celebrating Andrew Lloyd Webber. With Phantom of the Opera set to close on Broadway, I'm having a handful of what I'm calling Phantom Cats on the podcast. Our guest today has been performing as Madame Giry on Phantom of the Opera. But before that, she was Grizabella in the Australian Cats Circus Tour. So welcome, Maree Johnson. Thank you for joining me.

[0:40] Maree Johnson: Good morning. Hi.

[0:42] Mike Abrams: I am excited to have you on. I have not talked to anybody from your cast. And this tour is kind of fascinating to read about. So we'll get into that a little bit. But I always love starting with your history of cats before you were in it. So you know, being in it in 2000, the '98 movie had kind of just come out. It's probably just circulating a little bit at that point. But had you had a chance, like, what was your experience with cats before being in it? Had you seen it? Had you, you know, got to see it live? Like, where were you before you got cast as Grizabella?

[1:15] Maree Johnson: I was in Sydney, Australia. And I remember seeing it. It was the original production in the '80s, I guess. Mid to late '80s, I think, because it was before Les Mis. So somewhere there. You probably know those bits of cats trivia. But so I was very, I was a young and, you know, wide-eyed. And I thought it was amazing. I never imagined myself being in it, which because I wasn't a trained dancer. And I think the biggest takeaway from that was the dancing. And I was just in awe of what they were doing in the set and how this set, you know, came into the audience and how all the cats came up and, you know, purred beside you in the show. So I was, yeah, I was flabbergasted, actually. You know, I hadn't seen anything like it at the time.

[2:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's interesting you say that because it's it is such a dance heavy show. But then it has this like, you know, such a memorable belt. And so it's it's kind of unique to hear. Like, I hadn't thought about it from that way as someone who can't sing or dance. So I walked out thinking I can't do any of this. But but to hear you say like, oh, I I'm not a dancer. This isn't for me versus I'm a singer can do this, you know, especially with an opera background. Like I could or I could I could do some of this stuff. But you had the reverse reaction because of the dancing.

[2:48] Maree Johnson: Yeah, I was intimidated by it. And I was just starting out. I yeah, I was 18 or something or so. I yeah, I was also not really going into theater at the time. It was more of a hobby. So I was pretty much intimidated by it. It was. But what it did, I think, was gave me enough of a bit more of the bug to perform. And because it was different, you know, it wasn't Oklahoma. It wasn't, you know, I just come out of school doing The Boyfriend and Bye Bye Birdie and Oklahoma. It was that kind of genre. So and we're talking last century in the late '80s. You know, so theater was shifting then. So this was considered, you know, very avant garde at the time. So, yeah, no, it certainly got my creative juices flowing. That's for sure.

[3:46] Maree Johnson: But did I ever see myself in it at that time? Absolutely not. You know, and nor was I was too young to be a Grizabella then. You have to age.

[3:58] Mike Abrams: I guess that's true. There's been a wide range of aged Grizabellas, but it's generally supposed to be played by, you know, you're playing a weathered actress role as like the idea is like that's the concept of Grizabella. So it's a little easier to do that later on. So you said that you were, you know, that you weren't really fully into theater. Tell me a little bit about how Becoming Grizabella happened, because you were a guest to come in for, I think, a month on this tour, correct?

[4:29] Maree Johnson: Yes. So I was a guest for this leg of the tour. It was Perth and Kalgoorlie and a couple of other towns, I think, in Western Australia. Kalgoorlie is really remote. If you don't know Kalgoorlie, it's in the middle of Western Australia. It's an old gold mining town. So that was pretty cool to see that part of Australia. So, yeah, I just came in. So the cast was already up and running, and they'd already been touring for some months. And then they were going to continue on with the tour. And then I just, you know, came back out and I was dealing with Hannah, who was the original Grizabella on that tour. So I just came in for those, I think, maybe six weeks or something. I kind of remember such a long time ago.

[5:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[5:19] Maree Johnson: So I had my own rehearsals in Sydney for a little while with the choreographer and director. So it kind of helps with the role of Grizabella because she's the outcast. So coming into that company as a guest performer or as a solo artist sort of makes sense. And it helps with, you know, I had to get to know everyone. And you feel a little bit on the outer, and you feel different to everyone else. And all that feeds into your characterization of the role. Will they like me? Will I be accepted into the company? And, you know, so, you know, it wasn't really an issue for me. But, you know, I'm not sure I really thought about it too much. You just sort of get on with the job and put your head down and get in there. And, yeah, and you kind of do a quick rehearsal with everyone, and that's it.

[6:17] Maree Johnson: But it was an extraordinary production because it was a circus tent. It was like the Cirque du Soleil tents. And then it, I believe, after I left a couple of months later, there was a hurricane and it took it out.

[6:31] Mike Abrams: Oh, wow. Wow. I did not know that.

[6:34] Maree Johnson: Yeah.

[6:35] Mike Abrams: So I want to go back to a couple of pieces here, because you said a couple of things I have a lot of a lot of further questions on. So we'll take them one at a time. The first is, is that, you know, the Grizabella coming in is almost it seems like that's part of the intention, even when, you know, when you're doing rehearsals for the new show is to kind of keep Grizabella out a little bit of some of the dance stuff and stuff to bring to bring her in for that moment. So it almost was kind of forced upon you in just the circumstance, but it also helped. But one thing I've heard from a few Grizabellas is, is that when you go into that first time where you rehearse with the whole cast and you sing Memory, there's almost a little bit of pressure.

It feels like because you haven't been with them the whole time, they have built this kind of family intentionally to kind of keep you out of it. And then you're going in to kind of have that moment. Did you feel that the first time you did the full rehearsal when you came in with Memory? Was there like a little extra pressure to perform the song super well, having been on the outside coming in?

[7:33] Maree Johnson: Sure, absolutely. Back then too, I don't know if they still do this now. And it's probably something, depending on how well your negotiations go. But often the Grizabellas do actually dance in the opening number, which I did. So that also plays into Grizabella's sort of history is that she was one of them. She started out as a young cat like them. And well, in my mind, she did. And then she goes to live her life and then she returns to the pack. So yes, coming in and singing that moment, because it's also a very quiet moment. It's a very still moment and everyone's watching you. So there's always that trepidation.

[8:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it is a very haunting moment. It's a moment where, you know, in 2000 was an issue. But now there's a few shows I've seen where that moment of like, oh, please, I just really am hoping nobody's cell phone goes off because it's like so it's so ready. Like the moment is just so eerie and and powerful. And so it's it is it is exactly that.

[8:47] Mike Abrams: I want to talk a little bit more about the the circus tour, because it does. Again, this this came from it was a circular theater, as you said, there's some circus elements. It was called runaway to this catch runaway to the circus. Like, is there how much like difference is there for doing it in that type of circular theater compared to, you know, what? I mean, I'm just fascinated by this because it's so opposite of what I saw seeing the 2016 Broadway revival.

[9:16] Maree Johnson: Right. Yeah, it was just it was cool. It was really extraordinary. The tent. I mean, I can't remember how many semi trailers this whole thing traveled in maybe six, I'm guessing. We had two of them that turned into dressing rooms at the back and another two. Well, that's four. So there must be like, it's probably 10. But two of the back loads of the trucks were the air conditioning units, you know, pumping air into the tent, because we're also talking Australia in summer. It's hot.

[9:54] Maree Johnson: Yeah, you had that. And then you had these two other big trucks, maybe two or three that the sides expanded out and they were our dressing rooms at the back. And then the tent kind of shrouded all of that. And then you had, you know, a number of tent poles going up, creating, I don't know if you have seen pictures online, but it almost looks it's black. The tent's also black. And you've got these tent poles going up that kind of look like cats, you know, ears. You can almost say that. And we would enter. So like a circus, you've got the vomitarians coming in. So we would come up these ramps into the audience and come through the audience at the back, which is similar to the theater. But this was it's a very dramatic entrance coming in that way through those entrances in a circus sort of thing.

And I would come, Grizabella's first entrance was through that way and then up onto the stage. And then when she went, well, hopefully I'm not giving it away too early in the interview, but she would, Grizabella would then go on the heavy to the up to the heavy side layer. And we'd go up on this sort of old tire as normal. And then I was in a harness and I would have to climb down a very tall tent pole.

[11:20] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[11:21] Maree Johnson: It was almost like a little trapeze thing at the top that you would go onto a landing and then climb down.

[11:28] Mike Abrams: That's how you, after you went up every night, you climb back down for the ending?

[11:33] Maree Johnson: Yeah, yeah.

[11:34] Mike Abrams: Wow. Yeah. It's the heavyset layer answers are always like, it's different in every production, like where, how, how do you go up and how do you come back down? And, and I was thinking a little bit about the tent of, you know, it was a 5,000 in some places, person like stadium seating. Like there's so many, it's a, it's a big audience compared to a normal theater in most cases. And then you add in the circular element where you can't kind of have to go up and then hide behind. Like it's, you know, it's a much more challenging piece. And so I, when I heard about this one, I thought a lot about the junkyard elements and how do you put that together and how you're able to kind of almost make a little bit more use of the stage and different things you could do, because it does fit the whole, the whole point of cast is, is that you're getting a sneak peek into the Jellicle tribe and the life of them. And you add in like the circular element, it's like, oh, you really get a sneak peek in versus the very traditional, you know, stage one look with who knows what's behind them.

[12:43] Maree Johnson: Right. Yes. And it'd be, it'd be interesting actually, you know, talking to some of the cast again, who are on that tour for the, for the long haul of it, because I'm sure they have a lot more memory of the details of that set because I didn't crawl around that set the way they did. I just kind of came on from a distance, stood there, sang my song and then thank you very much. So my memory of the intricate details is somewhat limited.

[13:11] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's been a little time too. So it's, you know, there's, there's been time and the amount of time you did it. Cause I think you were on for, like you said, six weeks. So let's, yeah, let's pivot to that actually piece of that, which is when you're doing a six weeks, I know you said you had rehearsals in Sydney. How much do you create of a character backstory where you're given so little when you know, you're doing a short stint, like you have to clearly have enough to be able to go do the performance and give, you know, the what Grizabella is to the audience, but how much did you think about that when you know, it's a shorter run versus when it's an indefinite run?

[14:02] Maree Johnson: Do your homework on where your character, any sort of information you can get about the character. So I'd actually studied a little bit of T.S. Eliot at school. So, you know, I'd been introduced to his work already. So it was just a matter of looking at the cats, the poems and, you know, the lyric and where she was coming from, the glamour cat and all those things. I mean, it's kind of a classic tale of someone's life who is, you know, it's lost the glamour and the luster. Maybe there were mistakes made, regrets, all those things. And it's somewhat sorted. There's an implication that, you know, her life was somewhat complicated, you know, in various ways, and she was shunned by her community. So, you know, I definitely looked at that. But having T.S. Eliot's work there was definitely something I tapped into, you know, those stories, those poems.

[15:12] Mike Abrams: So do you remember what they told you? Because, like, there is this, like, lure of cats. I'm working my way slowly into getting the right people to come tell me the, you know, the full, like, total background, like the two day that they walk through. But there is this, like, here's what we know is fact. And here's where there's kind of some opportunity for interpretation. And, you know, like how much time do they spend walking you through that versus the, what I assume is more traditional rehearsal, which is here's your staging. Here's where you come on. Here's how you go to the heavy set layer. Here's the song that you're singing. How much of that, like, time did you get? And how much do you remember of that?

[15:50] Maree Johnson: I don't remember there being a lot of time, actually. It was because, especially coming in when the show's already running, those rehearsals tend to be a little, there's a little bit more economy of time going on. So there's, it's more get the staging in first, and then bring in the other layers as we go. But I don't remember a lot of the specifics. I wish I could find my notes. I know they're somewhere in some box, maybe in, still in Australia, who knows. But yeah, it's hard to answer that one, apart from doing my own. I think as an actor, to be prepared as you can, you always do your extra work, you know. But I can't, I don't remember there being specifically some sort of backstory that they thought I should have. I think it was pretty much left to me, because it is sort of a broad, it's a little bit like Madame Giry in a way, too, in Phantom.

[16:54] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So we'll get to that. Hold that thought. I do, I do, I think you're spot on. I'm always fascinated talking to Grizabella. And there's always two pieces of Grizabella that I like, that I like talking about and hearing from. And, you know, the first is that, which is, there is this almost ambiguous piece of where she went when she left. Like, we're not really privy to that. We know that she was there before. We know that she left, and we know she's coming back because it's time. Like, it's her time. But the where she went is, like, very open for interpretation. And there's, like, some theories, and there's some, like, this is what I thought, and this is how I thought about it. But it's almost not, like, necessary to be relevant for the story.

But did you at all think about that? Like, is that something where it's like, here's where Grizabella is coming back from because I'm returning? Or was it just, you know, we knew that she had to leave. We had this, like, or was it more, I guess, broad?

[17:56] Maree Johnson: It was probably a little more broad in the sense of, and I think as you get to know the cast and the other characters around you, that starts to develop within your rehearsal time. Once again, I didn't quite have that rehearsal time with the cast. So it developed probably on stage in over a matter of days with the performances. So you start connecting. And when you're on stage, depending on the staging, you know, it's that look, it's that and watching that other performer, then sometimes that backstory develops in that moment. And then it becomes a lot more colorful and vivid in your imagination. So it feeds your performance that way. So definitely, that's something that I've always relied on is letting other characters help me make my story. You know, depending on my relationship with them on stage, you know, because their interpretation, they bring their own interpretation, and that feeds into your own story and your reaction to them.

[19:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah, completely. Yeah, I think it was a combination of your own history and your own vision of what it was to be, you know, someone who was probably at the pinnacle of her career. And then either over time, she just became sort of not so she aged out, and then became depressed and sad, or she was, there was some massive scandal and she was shunned. You know, I can't remember if I had that kind of detail with it, given the time that I was there to kind of pull it all together and get on stage. But...

[19:44] Maree Johnson: It's a much more wholesome version than I've most of the time I hear. A lot of times it's very drugs or sex work or something else too, is like, went really far off. Whereas I think I like your, I like the performer version, like, there's a slight scandal was a little, you know, like, nothing is bad.

[20:05] Maree Johnson: Well, I guess we're living in a world though, now where I'm very careful of the way we judge people, because some people make very successful careers out of being sex workers.

[20:15] Mike Abrams: Totally, yeah. And it's just like one of those fun, like, fun pieces of this story for me is that it is kind of a dark show when you like really dig into it. And it's weird, because there's kids everywhere. And it's, you know, it's still cats. And but when you kind of break down some of the stuff, it's like, I hadn't thought about it that way. And it's, you know, it's very sexual. And there's a lot of pieces to it. And there's a lot of backstories to it. But at the end of the day, it's just, it's just cats. And so it's, it's kind of like a funny piece to and, you know, why I've got 100 episodes of the show is because of those stories that have been able to come from it.

[21:39] Maree Johnson: Well, and there's also, like, if you look at T.S. Eliot, too, and start going into, you know, Love Song for Alfred J. Prufrock, it's also the decline of someone getting older and, and their, their loss of self and all those things. So it could be just as simple as yeah, it may not be all about drugs and sex. And it just be, it just aging and decline. And some people handle that better than others.

[21:57] Mike Abrams: Yeah. But yeah. The other piece I want to ask, and this will transition nicely into our little bit of our phantom conversation. But one part of that's, that's, I think, really unique about Grizabella is you really get about 15-ish minutes on stage to tell your story versus in Phantom you're on a lot more frequently. How, you know, do you prepare differently? Like, did you think about that differently when you know you're going to be really coming in to have your couple powerful moments?

[22:46] Maree Johnson: Yeah. I guess maybe with the dance number at the beginning, but you, you come in and all eyes on you belting and then leave versus being a little bit more like throughout the story we've done.

[22:57] Mike Abrams: Oh, but when she first comes on, she's very it's not, she doesn't come on with a full force. She's still, she's just reaching out. It's very gentle. She doesn't let rip at all at the beginning, at that first.

[23:06] Maree Johnson: Yeah. But all eyes are still really on you there because it's like, who is this? Like the music changes, tone changes, like everybody's kind of looking at you and then you go back off and then you come back on and belt.

[23:25] Maree Johnson: Yeah. Well that, and then that's her whole emotional journey in that song. And it's the pain and the, you know, it's a great, it's a great thing. It really is. It's a great journey, that song, you know, so, um, it all gets wrapped up in, in the end and the 11 o'clock number.

[23:42] Mike Abrams: Yeah. But do you prep differently though, when you know it's going to be a shorter time on stage versus, you know, kind of in and out throughout the whole, the whole show?

[23:52] Maree Johnson: No, no. Same thing. Same. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Love it.

[23:57] Mike Abrams: We'll be back for more of this cat's catastrophe after a short break.

[24:06] Mike Abrams: Well, let's, let's talk a little bit about Phantom now. Um, you know, we're, we're going to be releasing this right around the end of the Broadway run. Um, I love hearing just a little bit from, from your side, like these are two Andrew Lloyd Webber shows that could not be more different from each other. And having had the, you know, the joy of being able to, to be in both of them, like, what did you notice? Were there any parallels that you notice or any similarities you notice outside of like the very obvious, vast differences in the stories?

[25:33] Maree Johnson: Oh, that's a good question. No, uh, other than I guess, Madam Giri and Mr. Mistoffelees wearing black, they kind of look a little similar. Okay. I don't think I've ever compared those two, uh, uh, in my life. I've never thought about it that way.

[25:51] Mike Abrams: Well, if you look at their kind of costuming and he's got black and a little bit of sparkle and she, Madam Giri wears a little bit of sparkle in masquerade, it's like, Oh, that could be a funny little, you know, take, uh, takeaway is putting Madam Giri up there kind of choreographing Mr. Mistoffelees because, you know, he's such an incredible dancer and she's the choreographer. So I always think, Oh, that could be cute.

[26:20] Maree Johnson: Um, but this, in terms of similarities, yeah, no, I don't, they're not, I've said they are very different.

[26:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, I, I had a lot of trouble, so I, I readily admit that I had not seen Phantom until recently and didn't know very little about it. Um, you know, just knew it was super famous and it was Andrew the Webber and everything else, but being a more theater outsider than insider, um, it was still something that was on my, my New York bucket list, um, to do. And it was, uh, and it happened. So I was, you know, I, now that I know Catch so well, I can always try to take parallels. And I had the same thought. Like I really struggled to compare characters. Like the closest I got would be the Phantom and maybe Macavity with like the eeriness of like little haunting type of stuff, but there's not nearly the same parallels as you'd get with Cats and some other shows where it's very easy to interpret them.

Because the thing that is unique about Cats is there's pretty much a personality type for every personality. And that's kind of the joy of having a whole family together, but I really struggled to tie them to the Phantom characters.

[27:43] Maree Johnson: And they're just such vastly different shows, but it's unique because it's, it's, it's cool. Some of the parallels in the sense of like, they're both Angela Weber and they both ran forever, you know, like they've both been around for so long and so successful, but are so different.

[27:57] Maree Johnson: Yes, definitely. And one's a much more classical score, you know, that demands a different type of vocal, you know, uh, ability. So that immediately sets them apart too. And yeah, not as much dance while they're for the ballerinas. There's definitely their, their choreography, but it's not, you know, Cats is also essentially a dance show too.

[28:10] Mike Abrams: So I want to go back to one of the very first things you said, which was that, you know, you saw Cats and you were like, this is so dance heavy. You never thought it was going to be for you. Did you, the first time you saw Phantom immediately say, I need to be in this. Like, this is for me.

[28:22] Maree Johnson: Yes. Yeah. You knew right away. Okay. Yeah. And what was this, I guess?

[28:30] Maree Johnson: Sorry, just jumping in. It was actually Les Mis before that. Um, so it was, that was another sort of defining moment when I saw Les Mis, I was like, Oh, this I can do. Cause there's not a lot of dancing in it. And I wanted to be Eponine. I thought I was an Eponine, but I actually was cast as a causette understudy and I was like, Oh, okay. And, uh, yeah. So interesting. You know, sometimes your perception of who you want to be and who you actually present or what your chemistry is, is a little bit different to what you think it is when you're young, you know, but, and then I said, yeah, fast forward to Phantom.

[28:04] Maree Johnson: Thank you for having me! It's such a pleasure to be here and talk about my experience as Grizabella on the Australian Circus Tent Tour.

[28:34] Maree Johnson: The Circus Tour was a unique experience, blending the magic of CATS with the thrill of circus performances. It was fascinating to see how the two art forms could come together.

[29:04] Maree Johnson: Being a "guest" Grizabella added an interesting layer to my performance. I had to find my own interpretation while respecting the legacy of those who played the role before me.

[29:34] Maree Johnson: Growing up, I studied T.S. Eliot's poetry, which gave me a deeper understanding of the character and the themes within CATS. It was a joy to bring that knowledge to the stage.

[30:04] Maree Johnson: The audience's reactions were always a highlight. Each performance felt like a new adventure, and I loved connecting with them through the music and storytelling.

[30:34] Maree Johnson: I also had the opportunity to work on Phantom of the Opera, which was another incredible experience. The two shows have such different energies, but both are deeply rooted in emotion.

[31:04] Maree Johnson: In Phantom, the music is hauntingly beautiful, and the story is so rich. It was a privilege to be part of such a legendary production.

[31:34] Maree Johnson: The challenges of performing in a circus tent were unique, but they also pushed me to grow as a performer. The intimacy of the space allowed for a different kind of connection with the audience.

[32:04] Maree Johnson: I remember one night in particular when the audience was so engaged. Their energy fueled my performance, and it felt like we were all part of something special.

[32:34] Maree Johnson: I think that’s what makes live theater so magical—the shared experience between the performers and the audience.

[33:04] Maree Johnson: Each character in CATS has their own story, and I loved exploring Grizabella's journey. Her longing for acceptance and love resonated with me deeply.

[33:34] Maree Johnson: The role requires a lot of vulnerability, and I found that embracing that vulnerability allowed me to connect more authentically with the character.

[34:04] Maree Johnson: I also enjoyed the camaraderie with my fellow cast members. We supported each other through the ups and downs of the tour, creating a strong bond.

[34:34] Maree Johnson: The experience taught me a lot about teamwork and collaboration, which are essential in any production.

[35:04] Maree Johnson: I feel grateful for the opportunity to portray such an iconic character and to be part of the CATS legacy.

[35:34] Maree Johnson: It's a role that challenges you to dig deep and find the truth within yourself, which is something I always strive for as an artist.

[36:04] Maree Johnson: I hope that audiences continue to find joy and inspiration in CATS, just as I have throughout my journey with the show.

[36:34] Maree Johnson: Thank you for allowing me to share my experiences and insights. It’s been a pleasure!

[37:04] Maree Johnson: I look forward to seeing how the legacy of CATS continues to evolve and inspire future generations of performers and audiences alike.

[37:34] Maree Johnson: If anyone wants to connect with me, they can find me on Instagram or visit my website for updates on my future projects.

[38:04] Maree Johnson: Thank you again for having me on the podcast. It's been a wonderful conversation!

[38:34] Maree Johnson: I can't wait to see what the future holds for all of us in the theater community.

[39:04] Maree Johnson: Let's keep the magic of live performance alive and thriving!

[39:34] Maree Johnson: Until next time, take care and keep dreaming big!

[40:04] Maree Johnson: Remember, every performance is a chance to tell a story and connect with others.

[40:34] Maree Johnson: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you at the theater!

[41:04] Maree Johnson: It's been an honor to share my journey with you all.

[41:34] Maree Johnson: Let's continue to celebrate the beauty of musical theater together!

[42:04] Maree Johnson: Goodbye for now!