This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown the cast atrophy. I'm your host Mike Abrams and today we are celebrating Andrew Lloyd Webber. With Phantom of the Opera set to close on Broadway I have been having a handful of what I've been calling phantom cats on the podcast. So today my guest has been performing with Phantom of the Opera but before that he was Bustopher Jones and Gus and Growltiger in many productions of Cats. I am very excited to have him. So welcome Richard Poole and thank you for joining me.

[0:46] Richard Poole: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm glad to represent the cat nation.

[0:52] Mike Abrams: Cat nation. As you said it's been years since you've done this and also I have to start by now you told me before we started that this is your first podcast. I'm honored to have you and that your first podcast is going to be talking about the wrong jellicle choice. So what a way to kick off the podcasting career.

[1:10] Richard Poole: Absolutely. Getting back my revenge.

[1:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah I love it. So yeah I love that and of course Gus is ready. Let's start with your shift Cats because you were, I'm going to read these in order. You are in the, these are number, but the US tour number one, the US tour number three, the US tour number four and then the original Broadway production. So you predate the 1998 movie and you know all the you know the way that a lot of people got to know Cats because you were in the very very early stages of it. So what was your introduction to the music?

[1:44] Richard Poole: To Cats?

[1:44] Mike Abrams: To Cats yes.

[1:54] Richard Poole: Well I saw it probably maybe a year into its run and I really thought there was really nothing in the show for me but I wanted to do it because it was a hot item and I wanted to be in something that was you know gonna give me at least some work for a while. So by the time I got hired for the show I had already auditioned for the show for four times and then the fifth time I auditioned they had told me in my previous auditions that I was at least look too young and I just didn't know what that mean because you know you're wearing 15 pounds of makeup and a yak wig and I'm going seriously I'm not too you know I'm too young. Anyway I grew a beard and got and and and I got hired for a replacement in the first national in Chicago in January of 1986 and that was my beginning of my Cats world.

So I did that for about eight months and then they were beginning a new tour the third national and they cast me to originate Gus in that company and I did the complete run of that company until September of 88. So that tour ran for two years.

[3:12] Mike Abrams: So you're the first person I talked to on the first tour and I'm curious to hear because this is like the from when I've read about it it's the first time that this you know you did long stays at places but it was the first time that this was out in big cities you know like this is still relatively new so I always love to hear like what was the reaction to something so unique at the time coming around the country like I'm from the Midwest so I always just think like what would happen the first time Cats came to Indiana and what would that have been like what would that reaction have been like so you're really bringing this to a lot of the country pre social media pre a lot of these things like how did how did the world react when when you brought this from city to city?

[3:54] Richard Poole: Well Cats was a phenomenon in itself because it was something that people had never seen. I mean the fact that a musical could succeed with you know adults dressed up like cats on a stage I mean it was and when it became a hit we would go to that you know like Chicago is where I joined the First National and it had already been there for probably three months and we were there for nearly a year at the Schubert there and every time that people would know or if she hinted at that we were part of the Cats company they would just be effusive in their you know excitement about it and it was one of those things that you could actually you know get a pretty good table at a restaurant by dropping the c-word and just hope each baby we did that a lot but Cats had I mean people were blown away we were you know we were sold out the whole run Andrew Lloyd and and this Sarah Brightman came out there and visited the company it was it was incredible you know and it's a First National they come out of that company and it was it was a lot of that company came to Broadway eventually so it incredible talents.

[5:19] Mike Abrams: I can just imagine you walking up to you know a Chicago restaurant just like I am Bustopher Jones and I would like a table for four.

[5:25] Richard Poole: They didn't they didn't say it like that but you know you could say I'm in you know Cats and I know these are my friends from out of town I wonder if you can you know give us you know the accommodation they'd be very very very helpful so it was it was nice it was a nice perk a nice perk to have but Cats was especially in the in the early days was a hot ticket everybody wanted to see it they wanted to know what the fuss was about people that couldn't get to New York so it was it was great it was an incredible time and and I didn't I didn't take over the role of Gus until I went into the third so I did not I did not do I didn't I was not contracted for Gus on the First National I was only an understudy there.

[6:18] Mike Abrams: And you're in the Cats chorus right?

[6:22] Richard Poole: I was in the yes I was in the booths I'm saying all the yeah saying that the whole whole time yeah but then you know originated in the third tour so you get to kind of go on I for for Bustopher Jones Gus and Growltiger I always love to hear like I've talked to actually a lot of that cast we did a live event I really reopened and had a lot of fun with the the US tour 3 which is strange who's still feels like one of the main like true tour tours it's the way it was the real writers tour right but but when you kind of had that experience and you're really getting to to do all the rehearsals all the stuff versus coming in as a replacement I want to go to like what were you told like what was the what were you given his backstory do you remember the here's how you need to kind of think and play about the Bustopher Jones and Gus characters?

[7:03] Richard Poole: Well I had I had gone on many times in the First National already when I originated the role so I knew I knew what did they wanted directorially so one of the assistant directors became the full director for the Third National and we you know it was it was a great a great time a great breath and we all rehearsed for the first time you know learning the show and I was requested not to tell people initially that I had done the show before because they wanted me to go through the process with everybody and so you know you start out in the process of Cats you know in all fours and you do all that and so you you learn how to grow from a feline to a human to a hybrid you know so you can make make the show work work for you but we you know we start out you know like Cats on the floor and we and we evolve till we can you know stand on two two legs and sing like humans.

[8:22] Mike Abrams: So it's such an interesting thing to just hear you say and I was like you just basically trained to be a cat and then you had to figure out that you know it's that hybrid piece that makes it so interesting.

[8:27] Richard Poole: Yeah absolutely absolutely because we were told we were told specifically that we were never to meow we could never make a meow sound we could never make a hiss sound all you know this the sound everything that we did was based more on a physical representation than a vocal representation because it would muddy everything else that you know Mr. Weber was trying to get across so so I yeah I mean it's it's such a fascinating piece of the the training for that then you go on tour and this is again another the first time that this is reaching a lot of cities and I think you had I've heard about a ton of different experiences and you did you know I remember you did a Broadway cares or you know you did a fundraiser for the AIDS epidemic and all things happening to you but that was a three-ish year I think two or three year pretty robust and lengthy tour and it's the same kind of questions like I know you were in Chicago for a while and you could get wherever reservation you want but what was the reaction city to city like was this also the first time most people had a chance to see it if they didn't go to New York or London?

[9:45] Richard Poole: Oh absolutely absolutely yeah yeah it was the hot ticket it was a you know it's the first time that Cats had ever played Chicago and it was you know we like I said we were sold out all the time and it was it was incredible.

[10:01] Mike Abrams: So let's let's pivot to the US tour for so this is now five years later from the right or and I know you you got to do a couple things in between but what kind of you know you what would had you come back to this new tour was it an itch to to be to be Gus again or was it no obviously just the next step of the career?

[10:19] Richard Poole: No I had been in Europe for a year and I came back in December and December of 92 so I think it was March of 93 Tara Rubin calls me and asked if I would be interested in coming out and do a paternity leave cover she says you won't have to go while I have to do a sing in the booth and whatever and I said yeah no worries so I went out there and did that I think the contract was for like 17 weeks or something like that and so during that time I went on and and performed at understudy rehearsals and and that sort of stuff and went on several times and then they offered me the contract and I I did that for a year through December of 94 and then they brought me to Broadway in December of 94.

[11:22] Richard Poole: So I went out there with no intention of doing it. I did it as a favor for Tara Rubin, the casting person. And you know, I had no intention of staying there, because as far as I was concerned, I'd already done as much as I could do. And I said, once I did two years on that Cats tour, I said, I'll never do another show for two years. I'm too itchy to be creative to do something like that. I can't. I know. Now, considering that, yeah, I didn't realize that once you grab that brass ring, you want to hold on to it pretty tight. You know, doing that, if you're doing a long run, doing a long run of anything gives you the flexibility and the freedom to actually plan things. You know, you can feel like you can have more of a life rather than a struggling actor.

And in the eighties, you know, those were the shows that were running, you know, and they kept running and running and running around and running. So I had no intention of going back into Cats, but when they offered me the Broadway thing, I said, Oh yeah, I'll go back home. You know, I'll do that. So that's when I came back home and I didn't go back out on the road anymore. I'd been on the road for about 15 years with various shows. So I would refresh it to kind of have like to be able to settle down a little bit and have a, you know, one place. And then I think you did, you know, you did the Broadway Cats for four years, right? Uh, three and a half years. Yeah. I was the longest running, I was the longest running Gus in the production. Wow. I hope you're having a Jellicle ball. We'll be right back after this quick break.

[13:06] Mike Abrams: That's kind of fascinating to me. You know, what's so funny is, is the way our minds think is when, as you were saying that you were thinking about this from a family and roots and stable income. And I'm sitting here going, wow, you know, that's gotta be so interesting with being able to think about all the different ways you could think about Gus's backstory and how you could play it differently every night. And I'll, you know, I got to, I'm thinking for like the character development side of this, which I think is a good segue of, you know, you were the longest running Gus. And so when you're doing that and you're playing a role that is like, I think what's so interesting about Cats and why this, you know, really this podcast has been, really exists is because I can have this similar conversation, but it's also so different conversation so many times is that there's not a direct answer to most things.

And I think when you've done this and you did this for almost seven years total, um, and most of the time as, as boss and Gus, um, how did you over those times, like, did you play with kind of what Gus's backstory is and what his like history is to keep it fresh? Like, or was it already becoming fresh because you had different people coming in and out and that gave you different relationships to play with and stuff like that? Like as an actor, how do you go about that when you're doing a role for so long?

[14:23] Richard Poole: Well, the simple answer is that it's never exactly the same production ever. You will have, you never, never will have that same audience again. You'll never have the same orchestra, their subs and stuff, people on stage. There's always a dynamic that can change. And if you start to change your character or what you perceive as what you're giving as your character on stage, because you perceive the audience is not getting it or appreciating it or whatever it is, you start to change it. You get into a very slippery slope there where you lose the nucleus of what your character is. So when I developed my characters that I only, I only wavered a very few things, you know, just fine-tune them or change them a little bit.

And I'd always take notes. I was a good note taker. And so you would have people that would come in either the choreographer or the director or whomever, the production supervisor, and each of them would have notes and sometimes they would be contradictory. So depending on the person that was there, you'd be doing that note, but the show constantly changed and you change with that. And I think that the core of my character stayed the same, but I will say that on Broadway, doing the show, as long as I did on Broadway, I had a chance to really explore exactly what the core of that character was. Number one, because in the Winter Garden there, you are so close to the audience and you even have people that are seated on the stage there who are behind you in that number.

And it is you on stage with the spotlight. And I mean, you are as naked as an actor can be there, you know, it's all you. And that's such a responsibility to hold that in your hand. And I, when I first came into the show and Stanley Lebowski was the musical director and they called him the little Nazi, you know, he was such a strong and prominent character and feared by everyone. And I told him, I said, I said, I said, please give me notes. I want to be the best I can. Please do not make me look like a fool on stage. And he said, I would never do that. But he says, you have to give people the core of what the text is. Tell the story, just tell the story and the rest will be done for you because the music and everything else. And that's what the challenge is every night is to tell the story, period.

[17:19] Mike Abrams: Did you think a lot about, like, I think what's so unique about Cats is it's a world that was built that has some things in the text, like you're saying, that's very definitive. And then a whole lot, that's just a lure that's like telephone as you hear it. And as, as you said, changes and could be a different person. And, you know, hearing you say you got contradictory things is like, is the most interesting piece for me because I'm hearing that already. I'm hearing this person is the mom and this person's not the mom, and this could be your sister. This is not your sister. So how much did you try to take as fact for, or how, what was your guts, especially like, what was the relationships that you played that you were, this was my interpretation. Absolutely. No one could tell me otherwise.

[18:07] Richard Poole: Um, you mean, was there anything I was married to in my performance? I think, um, like when I think about Gus and I think about, there's a relationship with Jellylorum, and then there's some potential other, like, what's the relationship with Old Deuteronomy and all the different characters. And then there's, you know, there's some of these unwritten thoughts to this as like, is Jelly your caretaker or not? Is it your potential daughter or niece or what is that version? And it's so unique because you just hear so many different answers to that question. And well, you know, at different points we're given, you know, we were given exposes about what the people in charge had figured was the backstory for each of these characters, you know, with Demeter, you know, being assaulted by Macavity and all this stuff and, and Tugger having, you know, relationship with, I mean, it's all, you know, everything is contrived.

This is for, for, for people, especially because we had a lot of young people, you know, who were green, very good dancers, very good gymnasts, that sort of stuff, athletic and whatever, but they were green as far as stage performers. And they were having to tell a story of a story that was very, um, uh, I always say light, uh, in, in, in the, in what the weight of what the text is. It's, you know, it's, it's old possum's book of practical cats, you know, it's, it's, it's poems. And so you have to have the people on stage, especially when the choreography is, you know, injected into it, there has to be a motivation for them to do something other than a choreographer, tell them, go from A to B, you know, if they know that they're supposed to be afraid of this cat, or they're supposed to, you know, be isolating this one or ignoring that one or hate that one or whatever there, it, it, they gave us this to give us a sort of a path that we could go on. So everybody was kind of on the same page.

[20:16] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Understand. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. I think that's what's fascinating about it is that you, you have some, you have some ability to tweak within the realm of the world. Like there's obviously, you know, you can't completely change a personality or a staging, but you could one day play that this is maybe sister or friend, and that's not that different. And that's where we'll have a little bit of, of that freedom.

[20:38] Richard Poole: Right. Right. There was a, there, there was definitely a hierarchy in the, in the Cats world, there was always, you know, not, not just the fact that, you know, there were principal principal contracts and, and ensemble contracts, but the fact that there were characters, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with what happened initially in the show that equity came in after the show was mounted and decided who was going to be principals and who was not going to be principals. And because it was kind of like a chorus line, it originated as a favored nations contract where everyone would get the same salary and that, you know, equity came in and said, no, that didn't work. So some of the people, some of the people, like for instance, Bombalurina, Demeter, Jellylorum, those three girls, I think should have been principal characters, but they weren't. So they were featured and therefore they got run of the play contract. So, so Marlena Danielle, who was the original Bombalurina was the only actor who made it to the very end.

[21:50] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And so that is, I did not know that history. And it's, it's kind of interesting because when I did my first 10 episodes leading up to the movie, I was trying to figure out which 10 you do. And I just kind of went on who sings their songs, who has a song about themselves, but that's not when you see it, that's not really, I mean, that's, but Bustopher Jones is a perfect example. He's got a song, but it's part of your friend Gus. And so there is a, that's kind of a fascinating piece. I'd never thought about that. And I don't think that much about the mechanics of the Broadway world of this. I just, I've thought so much about the Jellicles, like purely the Jellicles, which makes it so really interesting when I learned pieces like that.

How do you think about that? How do you know, how did equity come up with those decisions? And then, you know, it doesn't feel right or not. That's always up for debate. I want to pivot to Phantom because this is, you know, this, this is

[22:43] Richard Poole: You've been in Phantom for a while and have done a couple of different roles, but tell me about your Phantom history of how you originally kind of got your first taste of it on Broadway and then especially now with it closing on Broadway, how that's been. Alright, well I was doing Cats and I stayed until the record breaker, which was in '97 and so when it got to the spring of '98, I was like, there's nothing more I can do with the show. I've done everything that I can possibly do. So I was looking for something to change and there was an opening in the ensemble of Phantom and my musical director in Cats was a musical director in Phantom as well and so I auditioned for that spot and was offered an ensemble role and I went into the company and decided to stay with the contract that would last through the run of the play and not have to worry about getting renewed every six months as a principal. So that was a nice relief.

[23:40] Mike Abrams: So the '98 time frame, what is this, at the end of the Cats run?

[23:43] Richard Poole: It was 1998. They lasted for another three years, I believe.

[23:49] Mike Abrams: Yeah, after that, yeah. And it was a big, huge celebration because that was the first show to break Chorus Line's record, which they had held for a long time. It was, I think, 15 years it had run. So it was a huge, huge deal. So everybody that ever had anything to do with Cats and all the people that were there in the former cast and everything were there. It was quite monumental and I was so happy to be able to be in that company. It was amazing.

[24:14] Richard Poole: Yeah. So you basically go from Cats to Phantom. It's Andrew Lloyd Webber to Andrew Lloyd Webber, but again, really different shows.

[24:20] Mike Abrams: So what was—

[24:21] Richard Poole: Yeah. Well, this is the fourth. I've done four shows of Webber's. I did three companies of Joseph back in the early '80s. I did a national tour, the fourth national tour of Evita in 1985. So this was my fourth company of Webber. So Webber has always been very, very good to me. And I appreciate, I mean, everything. But I like his music. I love singing his music.

[24:43] Mike Abrams: And you are absolutely correct in the diversity of all four of those. How different it is.

[24:49] Richard Poole: And you know, my exposure to that, I was used to, I knew the show, I knew the show very well. I knew the music. I'd sung all of the Phantom stuff in concerts and whatever, you know, for benefits and that sort. So I was familiar with the music. So it was very easy for me to go into that show also because I didn't have to, I didn't have to dance like I danced in Cats. So that in itself was a completely different mindset because all of a sudden I was in a group of actors, not that the Cats people weren't actors, but they were dancers first, you know, and then they were actors, great actors on top of that. Well, you know, the people in Phantom were great singers first and then actors and then dancers. So, you know, you have that except for a ballet course, of course, but, you know, you have that. And it was a wonderful change for me to be able to feel like I could relax in a show and not feel like I was on the microscope all the time.

[25:10] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I'm sure the first time that you went out, you didn't have to do a, what, 13 minute Joel Cabal straight through dance number. You're probably thrilled to not have to do that.

[25:17] Richard Poole: Yeah. It was amazing. And not have to have your unitard peeled off of you every night.

[25:22] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I'm sure. So yeah, it's a whole different mindset and you know, it was, it was, it's great. I've had an incredible, incredible time in Phantom, you know, I wouldn't have been there had it not been for Cats.

[25:30] Richard Poole: So I want to talk a little bit about now, you know, when we, before we started recording, we were talking about how, you know, the, for me, Phantom was kind of a, it always been something that's like, Oh, I'll just, let's see it eventually, you know, it's, it's, I think a lot of people on, on in New York are like that, which it's, it's been such a statement. And then this announcement comes and then I think, you know, now it's sold out and people are ready to see it. It got extended again, but what was it, I mean, what was the moment like when you kind of heard that and that it just kind of came as a shock to especially the fans, but being someone working on the show, what was, what was that like for you?

[26:02] Richard Poole: Well, um, I've been out of the show since August 6th, I was on for my understudy, which is Andre, one of the opera managers, new opera managers. I was on the 11th stair of the masquerade set and tripped over the cape that I was wearing and fell, fell to the deck and ripped the quadriceps off of my knee. So I won't go back into the show until March 6th. So the initial closing of the show, when they announced it was February 18th, a friend of mine texted me who was in the show and she said, Phantom is closing February 18th. And I was like, yeah, right. And she said, no, it's real. And so at that point I was like, I'm never going to do another Phantom performance. That's it. I'm done. But then they extended it. And so I'm going back into Phantom for the last six weeks of the run.

[26:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah. That's why I'm a weird fate. Almost. It's like, you know, this is, it was going to be a, you know, almost a, uh, a farewell that you didn't get to really say goodbye to. And then now you're getting the chance to kind of go in and close versus, um, the injury kind of preventing that, which is, is, you know, again, unique.

[27:17] Richard Poole: Right, right, right. Exactly. You know, people were saying, well, you had a great exit. Yeah. I'm going, that's not totally I wanted to exit.

[27:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah. You never want to go out that way. You always want to go out your own way. And so it's, I'm glad that you're getting the chance to do that.

[27:33] Richard Poole: Well, I'm looking forward to that. I mean, it's a bit, you know, when they, when they decide to extend it, I was like, Oh, should I go back? Should I go back? Because I've been working on my, you know, therapy and, and because I, I dance in the show, I'm, I'm in a little band, I dance around, so, uh, I have to be able to move. And so I've been really working on my therapy to get myself back in there and I'm, I'm going to be ready to go back into the show March 6th and I'll have a great, you know, it'll be a great, great cherry on, on the cake.

[28:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Well, this episode is airing right before that. So everyone who's listening to this, uh, you got, you got about a week, I think if you're listening to it on the first couple of days of it being available to go get your tickets and then you'll have, I think a month and a half after that, unless there's another extension, um, to go see.

[28:23] Richard Poole: There won't be another extension. We've already been told that they're, they're planning a complete renovation of the Majestic Theater and they're, they're, you know, redoing it. And, uh, they're getting ready. I'm sure, you know, a little, another show will go on there soon, but you know, you can imagine what the stuff is that's underneath the sets and all that stuff, which hasn't been able to be cleaned in 35 years. So who knows what time, yeah, who knows what they'll find down there.

[28:51] Mike Abrams: Yeah. That is, um, yeah, it's going to be, you know, it's, it's going to be an interesting one as I do it again. I just don't think people expected it, but I'm glad that you get to, to kind of close it out.

[29:01] Richard Poole: Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited.

[29:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I'm excited. I, and I know people that have seen it before and it's meant something special to them are trying to, you know, revisit that one more time before it goes. So it's, it's sad, it's sad, but I'll tell you, it's, it's been, it's, it's an amazing show and it will, there'll never be anything like it. I really believe that, you know, it's because it's part of my life now. I mean, it's been a major, major portion of my, my life. And so I, I give all the respect to everybody that I've ever worked for in, in, in this production and, and it's been supportive of me and everything that I, I can't be thankful enough, uh, express my. So I feel very, very, very fortunate to be able to go in and do that. So I hope everybody can come see the show if they can, if they can find a ticket.

[30:04] Mike Abrams: Yeah. If you can grab one or play the lottery, there's whatever ways to, to still go see it for the remaining few weeks.

[30:10] Richard Poole: And I will tell you, the show is still as beautiful and crisp as it ever was. And when we came and rebooted the show, when we came back and opened October 22nd of '21, there was such a freshness in the show and such a new vision that they had created that made the show even brighter and crisper than it had been. And a lot of people noticed the change and it was, it was something that I think a lot of people were excited about seeing the kind of, uh, you know, 2.0 Phantom.

[30:43] Mike Abrams: And uh, that's, that's, I think has been instrumental in, in, in having people, uh, appreciate the show for so long, because I think that, you know, they've added so much and subtracted stuff through the years and everything, but the core of it has remained the same and it'll, it'll always be iconic and always sweat.

[31:03] Richard Poole: And that's, what's been cool for, for these episodes I've done recently is it's like, it's two iconic shows that you get to, we get to talk about too, right. These just like super well known, lengthy singles of, of Broadway and of the theater community.

[31:18] Mike Abrams: And so it's been, it's cool to kind of get to have some episodes that talk about both of them.

[31:23] Richard Poole: Right, right. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of similarities between the both of them. And I think, you know, uh, Andrew Lloyd Webber at, at the time that Cats was running had Starlight and Phantom going at the same time. So he had multiple shows, you know, going, uh, especially in the, in the eighties. And, uh, you know, he, that was a, that was the, those are the shows you wanted to get cast in.

[31:49] Mike Abrams: Um, and, and, uh, again, you had the opportunity to go to other companies because it was so popular.

[31:56] Richard Poole: Yeah. And it's, it's, they're still going. So on, I want to put it back to do a quick rapid fire, but it's going to go back to Cats. So for your Cats, your Cats are now back on.

[34:35] Richard Poole: Such a number to cause, you know, there's, I, having just saw, I just saw it recently, um, on stage on tour. And, you know, there's not that many times where it's really one or two cats on stage. It's Mongo Jumbo teaser and the two of them. And so your whole focus is on the two of them doing that number during the Macan so weirdly, and it really does kind of take over the stage. And it is, is to your point, it's an extremely sexual number and it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's kind of fun to, to see and watch. And, um, and, but then to think about the backstories too, of like what that number represents is. Oh, absolutely. But yeah, absolutely. What about favorite song from cats? Favorite song? My song. Are you kidding? Okay. I love Gus. Gus. Gus, dude. It's a beautiful melody. It's a, it's a very sentimental song and, and, and I, I just, it's a, I love it just because of the melody, you know, I just think it's beautiful. It's, it reminds me of a lullaby.

[36:36] Richard Poole: Yeah. What, um, here's, here's my fun, my fun rapid fire question is my fit putting on my phantom at which cat do you think would haunt a theater the best? Well, I'll tell you. Buster Richards cause he's looking at all the garbage cans back there and the howling of the majestic and the golden and the, and the Jacobs right there. He's the one that's, you know, my, I have two answers for this cause I've asked everybody and I've thought about it a lot and I thought originally I was like, Oh, it's gotta be Macavity, right? Like that's the one that's kind of on me to be, could be there. But then I'm more, I thought about it. I thought bus for two because I was like, you know, who's going to be so mad if you take their box seat, it's going to be necessary.

What exactly? I've known those people. I've known Buster for Jones, especially the theater. I've known so many bus for Jones. So, but that was something, you know, the thing about my, my role in cast was the fact that I got to play three distinctly different characters. And I think that I honestly believe that my track was the best in the, in the show because you got to, you got to do the trifecta of acting. If you could do that, you've got to do three completely different characters in one, two, two and a half hour show. I loved it.

[38:02] Richard Poole: Yeah. Even if they're small, you know, even if they're small, I mean, it's hard for costume change and makeup change and all stuff. You know, I had to change makeup for each of those characters. So, but yeah, I loved, I loved cats. I would never trade my experience for anything. It, it got me to where I am today. And without a doubt. Definitely. All right. We're here to the most important question. And I know you're siding with me, so I'm excited to hear your argument, but I've argued at length that I don't think Grisabella is the right Jellicle choice. It sounds like you agree with me. So who are you picking? Who's your Jellicle choice?

[39:31] Richard Poole: Really do I need to answer that? Let's just talk about stage time alone. Let's just, let's just put it down to stage time. Okay. Nothing else. Who has the most stage time in the whole entire show? It is. That's a good question. Is it MonkaStrap? Who actually has the most stage time? I don't know. I think it's Gus. I think it's Gus for Outsider Bus for Jones. I think it's that track. That track and I guess you danced the opening number. You're on for, yeah. I mean, it's very, I was trying to think if anybody else is, is through all of the rest. Well, MonkaStrap is on stage most, most of the time, you know, he's a narrator. So of course he's going to be on stage a lot, but I don't, I just don't know quantity, but you know, I'm just talking about quality.

[40:17] Richard Poole: Quality. I, you are, I will tell you, you're the most common, Gus is the most common answer that's not Grisabella. Oh yeah. Well, that's true. You know, and Gus is one of them. See, because I think that Gus is introduced at the top of the second act of by Deuteronomy, I think it's, it's both, it's kind of like, you know, kind of a gotcha thing for the audience, because I think that Gus is the obvious choice that's going to be there. Number one, he's the oldest, you know, uh, of, of the tribe, I believe. Uh, and, and it's, you know, he's, he's, he, he's deserved, he deserves it. You know, he's worked hard as an actor and done his.

[41:06] Richard Poole: I'm on the mindset that he should go this year and Grisabella can go next year. No, she's not ever going to go. She can't get up the heavy side layer with those heels on. I, you know what, I'm all for this. I've been, you know, everyone's slowly trying to like work me towards picking Grisabella. I'm like, yeah, she can go next year. And you're just like, Nope, never. No, never. She's not going to do it. Nope. Not gonna do it. Okay. I'm with you. No, that was wrong from the beginning. It was wrong. Send her back out, send her back out of the tribe. Just send her back to the, to the McAvity's gang. And she, you know, out there, no, not being no redemption story here.

[41:41] Richard Poole: Exactly. Exactly. Well, if there had been a cats too, you know, I think Gus might've been chosen then because Grisabella had already been sent out into the Netherland, right? Into the ether, neither land, netter land, whatever. Yeah. I mean, Gus has got to go. I think there's a, it's such a fascinating, if you, if you try to think the most interesting questions I think right now still are, is who was actually last year's choice? And then what are your next like five choices? Like, how do you make that decision? I asked every old Deuteronomy that because I challenged all Deuteronomies in the sense of like, do you have a consistent criteria or do you just make this up as you go? Like when, how does this work? Like it's a, it seems like it's just winging it if you've already decided and then all of a sudden somebody comes in and you're just going to change your mind five seconds before the ending.

[42:31] Richard Poole: Yeah. It seems a little, a little misguided. It seems very whimsical. Well, it sounds manipulative to me. So what I think it is. Yeah. So, you know, the thing, I mean, you know, the relationship between Gus and, and, and Deuteronomy is not strong enough to, to overcome the fact that, that, you know, this old haggard piece of whatever needs to be shot up in space. Actually, I, I love this. I, I've always thought I was the most anti-Grizabella. It sounds like you ran up there with me, uh, of this. So this has been, it's been phenomenal. You know, I don't understand. I don't understand a lot of musicals that you have people that come out on stage literally for 12 minutes in the entire show. And they're the lead character track.

[43:16] Richard Poole: Yeah. It's, but it's like, it's like everybody talks about this person that, you know, this, this, this character in third person. And then she finally appears and I go, really? That's it? You know? No, no, no, no, no. Go, go. Yeah. Get the next time. Next time you watch the show, just get a time or time clock, you know, just to, you know, stopwatch and, and time it, just time the stage time or just go, you know, onto YouTube and count it. And you'll see Gus, Gus was robbed. I'll, I'll watch an NDA movie and see, and see if I can get a counter. I'm sure, I actually was sure that the gel, the gel, like the junkyard and the fans, the cast fans have, someone's probably timed this out already. And so I've only had to let it send it my way. I'm sure there's a, uh, a stage time counter basically that everyone has. And it's, it's definitely not Grizabella winning. She's at the bottom on the other side.

[44:12] Richard Poole: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, this has been so fun. Um, I love the passionate anti-Grizabella, the argument here. Um, and I'm so glad that you get to, you know, to, to go back into, to Phantom to. Thanks live shows. Yeah, me too. Me too. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. It's a, it's a, it's a great show and it, and it, it has, uh, changed my life. So I'm very, very happy to both of those shows, Phantom and Cats have both changed my life. So, you know, I, I owe all of my gratitude to those, those people that have, have made it possible. So thank you.

[44:50] Richard Poole: Wow. I appreciate you coming on, doing your podcasting debut and being an amazing guest. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[44:59] Richard Poole: Well, thank you. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown, the catastrophe to follow along and can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else. Listen to podcasts, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Tik TOK at The Wrong Cat Died or check our website, The Wrong Cat Died.