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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpn.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm a wrong one died. I'm a wrong one died. Welcome to

[0:27] Mike Abrams: the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown the cat. Satrophe, I'm your host, Mike Alan, and today we have two amazing guests. They are two of the funniest theater content creators out there. I've shared nearly every cat meme that they have made and talk about excited to talk about them with their parody of theater. So welcome will and Rachel, better known as the theater lovers on social media. And thank you for joining me. Oh, hi, Mike, thank you for having us. I am excited. I think I learned about you early on of doing this, because people would send me your jokes, and all the time I'm just like, this is this is perfect. Like, same thing. Like, why did I think of this. This is so funny, and it's been really fun to follow. And I love it because I'm constantly being like, Oh, I get like, you do sets of memes. And I'm like, I know this show. I get all these jokes. And then there's other times I'm like, I don't even know what you're referencing. And I'm like, it looks funny, but I want to start kind of at the beginning of your content creation career, like, how did you two decide to get in this and start making memes and build this following of theater content?

[1:30] Speaker 2: Sure. Well, I guess it goes back a little bit further than that, where? So we're married. We're a married couple. We met each other in college in 2011 and we got cast in two person, like student written one act, and we sat down for coffee to, like, get to know each other better, and like, the rest is history, and there's a little bit more to it than that, but essentially, we've been together for like, 11 and a half years, and back in I want to say like 2019

[2:10] Speaker 3: we 2019 is when we officially started the theater. But before that, we had maybe, like a year, couple years before, we were trying to figure out, like, what can we do that's like, sharing all this theater knowledge we have, and we're like, is this YouTube show? Is this, like, how do we

[2:30] Speaker 2: translate these little jokes that we're making every morning over coffee? It was a lot of like, while we were watching media, and this is still how we make a lot of our content. Is like when we're watching, you know, our show together, whatever, pop culture, and we're like, oh, that's Sweeney Todd, or like, oh, that's cats, or, Oh, that's, you know, X, Y, Z, you fill in the blank. And we were kind of sending each other jokes when we weren't around. And it was just sort of like, this is something, but what is it? So we kind of stumbled into memes because they're they're quick, and you know, if you don't get that one, there's another one coming right behind it. And like a lot of credit to will. He's gotten so good at, like, the graphic design and, like the creation of it. He's also like a big font nerd. So if, if you are a follower of ours, and you haven't noticed, every single meme has a watermark of our name, and it is either in the font of the show or the font of, like, whatever we're referencing. That's like a little in lovers easter egg. But, yeah, so, so essentially, we've been together a long time. We both studied theater. We've both done theater our entire lives, so we already had an incredible, like, wealth of knowledge in sort of like, different pools of, you know, what we grow up consuming and studying, and then, you know, as a couple over time, we sort of have all these intertwined references and jokes and like, it just sort of blossomed out of that. And it really is like a collaboration through and through, almost everything that you see has both of our handprints on it, which is cool. I love

[4:10] Mike Abrams: that. So you met acting, and then you studied theater, and then you're like, we're gonna we're making these jokes just to each other. And it's like, but they're funny, so the more people need to hear them and see them, and then you've turned it into this like, amazing platform of, like, consistent stuff. I want to hear a little bit about, like you hear, so it's like, you know, you did stuff with succession and all these other kind of, like, current things. How do you is it just like, Oh, that makes me think of this show, and that's how we then create a series. Or are you thinking through a lot of those things? Of like, I think I saw this will come out a couple weeks later. I think recently I saw Bob's Burgers or, like some other shows, and it's like, there's a theme, usually, like, is that pre planned, or is it just kind of on the fly? A

[4:54] Speaker 3: lot of it is. A lot of it is on the fly. I will. When I'm saving the images, I always make sure to have a lot of tags and name everything in very specific ways, so that I have whatever the image is from, whatever show it's talking about. Sometimes things that appear in the image, like, if it's a if it's someone's wearing a hat, or like, there's a dog in it, and they're that way I can pull together themes really quickly. And if it's like, oh, it's national hat day, so it's a cool let's just search hat, and I can take all of these images from the past that might involve that, throw them together as a carousel on Instagram and it the the librarian brain in me has really come in handy for this. I was literally

[5:48] Speaker 2: just gonna say, I don't know if you can tell, but Will's been a librarian. He's so good, and I am so the opposite. I'm chaotic. I'm so chaotic. I'll just, I'll see an image, and I'll be like, Oh yeah, that's this. And I'll text it to him, and then he does such a good job of being like, oh, that's also and like, sort of be able to group things together. Sometimes it's like, we'll have a really good idea with one meme of a certain show, like, like, for the Bob's Burgers, for example. I can't remember, like, what was the one that, like, sort of was like, the catalyst for the other ones. But it's like, we'll have one, and we're like, oh, like, oh, like, let's search other Bob's Burgers images and see what we can make. Something that's also a really helpful resource for any like meme makers out there are, there are pages like, we take a lot of our succession. For example, there's an Instagram called no context succession where it's just like they take, you know, really distinct moments and sort of screen grab them, and then that's a lot easier for me to say, like, Okay, this is the moment where, in the musical theater canon that exists in my mind, does this fit? Like, there's one recently that was like, Can Pinky dance? And I was like, Oh, Mr. Mr. Pinky from hairspray. I was like, oh, can Mr. Pinky dance? Oh, okay, so, like, we'll make something with that. It's like, sort of like a reverse engineering, but it's the inspiration kind of comes from everywhere, and our brains work as parallel as we are. Our brains work in completely different ways. So it's, it's, it's fun. In that sense, we are constantly coming up with stuff that the other person wouldn't necessarily think of. Yes, a lot of fun. I

[7:27] Mike Abrams: like it. It's the you created. Like, the was, we call it the will decimal system. We've I love the organization of that because, like, I again, this is, since this is very much a side project for me. I don't have that at all. And I'm like, scrolling through Twitter, and Twitter's feeding me those succession moments, those other like screen grabs. But then it's like a Oh, this is my moment to look at it, and then I think about it and make it super, like super fast. And I think what I love about you all is you take it and you expand upon it and make it like a whole set and a whole theme, and then it's like, very well curated and much higher quality. Then I think a lot of what you see out there, which is just like a quick, oh, here's my quick 32nd joke. But I also have a personal Twitter, and it's like, all sports. And so it's like, I'm like, Oh, the intersection of that trending sports thing right now to theater, and like, nope. The that's not on the podcast Twitter account at all. It's not showing up on their their page. Which is which has made it kind of fun, too. We contain multitudes. Yeah. Is there any one that you that like went super viral that you were not expecting?

[8:41] Speaker 3: first one that really really surprised us about the reach that it had was maybe like March 2019 it was very early when we started, and it was, gosh, I can't think of his name. Are you thinking right behind Henry Cavill,

[9:01] Speaker 2: yeah. Jason Momoa, Henry Cavill, yeah. I was thinking the same thing, sneaking up behind

[9:05] Speaker 3: Henry Cavill. And we labeled that as be more chill sneaking up behind dear Evan Hansen, because we were like, we think that this fan base is going to get pretty wild in advance of be more chill opening on Broadway. And it really blew up in a way that it's still one of our best performing posts ever. And wow. But you compare that to other jokes, where, in that week, where it was like, this got 20 likes, yeah,

[9:31] Speaker 2: yeah. Our early stuff, it was a lot of trial and error, which I tell people who kind of ask, like, if they're interested in doing the same thing, it's like, literally, just make and put out as much stuff as humanly possible, because you don't know what's going to hit. And if you're putting stuff out at that kind of rate, it's not going to matter the stuff that doesn't. It's just learning what kind of like spaghetti at the wall better

[9:53] Speaker 3: than good sometimes. Yeah, and it's through finishing it. It's not necessarily the. Uh, the what you think of it. It's like, it needs to be out there, and you need to get feel the reaction. It's, it's previews for,

[10:07] Mike Abrams: yeah, totally. And it's all, I mean, it's all about engagement. So it's like, you it doesn't have to be the most high produced thing is, like, if, if someone comments on it, or it sparks the conversation. And I think, like, that's an interesting part. I wanted to ask you about, as as you shifted to like, a different platform. So like, you can make memes and do it thumb up on Instagram and Twitter pretty easily, but then you go to tick tock, where you also you can't do that at all. I mean, it just doesn't land. So how have you like, how do you think about all the different platforms that you're playing in? And like, you know, the jokes may be similar, but you've got to create content for all these different styles. Yeah,

[10:42] Speaker 2: it's a different beast. I mean, I feel like most of our Tiktok followers don't even know that we make memes on Instagram, which is crazy to me. It's like a totally different thing. I still feel like we're not good at Tiktok. I don't know. I don't know. It was just kind of finding a way to transfer those skills, but be more front facing, right? Because you can hide behind a meme and our faces aren't in it, but Tik Tok, it's like most of the time, unless you're using like templates and images, like you're the one lip syncing, you're the one like figuring out these sort of things, and that's been a lot of fun. The nice thing too, is especially when Instagram started transferring, like a lot of their time and energy, into reels, you could sort of do double duty. So it's like you make it on Tiktok you take a high quality screen grab without the watermark, which they've made, very difficult, but still possible, you also post it on Instagram. Something very interesting that I've found is that something will blow up on Tiktok tank, on Instagram and vice versa. It's very, very rare that it does well on both platforms. And I don't know if that's their algorithms. I don't know if that's the audience like. It's it's the I call this phase of content creation the Wild West. There's, like, no rhyme or reason. There's you just put it out there, you hope people like it. And I'm always amazed, even like yourself, like reaching out to us, like and saying that you like the content. I'm always shocked. I had no idea the reach. I don't know it's it's such a it's such a wild time.

[12:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it is so interesting. This tick tock is a much more of like, you need to be part of the video. Like, you need to be part of it. And that's a challenge for me as someone who, like, basically doesn't like or need to be part of it, you know, like, I don't need me on this, like, because it's all about cats, and I'm not in a cat's costume or, yeah, but you're the temple

[12:35] Speaker 2: king. You I do love the you are the template. You do so well with all, I'm always impressed, and I'm always a little bit jealous. Like you, you come up with some really, really good stuff. Templates

[12:45] Mike Abrams: are so fun for me because where I make memes and, like, I have a full time job that's not related to theater, that's not related to this podcast and so, and it's not, you know, it's like everyone else, it's a demanding job that you have that's that takes a lot of your time and energy. And so I think these things, as I like, use social media to take, like, a break and just scroll through and I'm like, that's a really funny template. And if it's a usable template, then it's like, okay, can I do it on my phone in about five or 10 minutes? And if I can, you see it. And that's why you see some are, like, really poorly done sometimes, and some are, like, kind of funny, but the picture, because I just have a saved set of pictures. I don't have the will decimal system. I have, like, a handful of screenshots of the different cats saved on my phone, and I have it in a folder, and I go to that, and I'm like, This is what I'm gonna throw this is my one Gus picture to use for this particular thing. And some of them work and some of them don't. And then I make a bunch and just throw them in just throw them in drafts. And then every once in a while, I'm like, I haven't posted something in a while. I'm gonna throw that one

[13:47] Speaker 2: out. Yeah, that's pretty much what we're doing on a smaller scale. So yeah,

[13:51] Mike Abrams: it's fun. I mean, it's fun too, because, I mean, you what I love about you, all you have, I have a very narrow, like, set of jokes that I'm going after you're going after theater. So you have a lot of like, you can see something go, Oh, that would land there with this show. And I'm like, There's only so many ways I can tie this to cats. After a while, it's relatable. Let's pivot to cats. What's your favorite cats meme you've made? Okay, wait

[14:16] Speaker 2: before, before we do this, can I ask you? Okay, so when you first reached out to us and I told you that we couldn't do the podcast yet because I had cats. NDA, yes, you figured out why

[14:29] Mike Abrams: I have not. Okay, what if I told you that you on the part of the ballroom? One, no, okay,

[14:37] Speaker 2: what if I told you that I'm the Rachel that you'd been in correspondence. You are the Rachel. You're the Rachel. I've been waiting for you to feel. I feel like, like a couple of times you've gotten so close and I was like, He's gonna call me on it. Okay, so

[14:55] Mike Abrams: it's even funnier is because I didn't realize that you talked to yo, to Anna. Yes, I didn't know yo was in charge of that. And every time you responded back to me, be like, I have to ask my boss. I'm like, I've known Joanna. She worked at the network. I've known Yolanda forever, since I started the network. And so I was like, wait this okay, that is really funny. I did not know

[15:16] Speaker 2: funny. Okay, so, like, yes. So when you're talking about liking some of the the cat's content. It's because I, and sometimes in adjacent to will made it. I love

[15:27] Mike Abrams: it. That is so funny. I all this time. I kept early on. I'm like, when I first started my I had three goals of this show, and this because I was only supposed to do 10 episodes. Yes, three goals of show. One was to actually have some people listen. That wasn't just my family. Like, Was anybody even gonna listen to this? Because I wasn't sure at first, because I didn't know anything about the show. Two was, is, I was hoping that the Broadway people would enjoy it and like the cats community group people would like, latch onto it or like it. So I was like, will the cat's actual account ever follow me or like it, or ever see it like, is there any moment that that or like, Will Andrew Weber, or like, any of this stuff? And the third was kind of a sub wise I really wanted to anger a fan who missed a joke, which I dated

[16:15] Mike Abrams: was really hoping that happened a lot, because I was like, if, because it's funny to me, if someone's just like, doesn't realize the parody of it and gets unreal into it, which I know there's very passionate fans. So that happened, like, welcome to our whole internet life. So I love it, because I just always reply back with another joke, and most of the time they get it. It's very rare anybody like, stays angry. But that is so yeah, when you first replied, I'm like, Oh my God. They finally, they finally recognized me, and then we did something together on the tour in DC. And I was like, we finally are doing this. And it's so strange to me now that I've heard from other shows that, like in the rehearsal process, they're using the podcast as a way to hear how other people approach the characters and education, yeah, and so totally what went from literally a meme I made about myself standing at what looked like a TED talk, yes, yes, as a joke, has turned into now 120 plus episodes. Kind of documenting the history of the show through a parody lens is still wild to me. I never thought I'd go past 10. I didn't agree past 10, and here we are. That's show biz, baby. So you're you're officially done, because as we're recording this, they are finishing in Hawaii right now.

[17:29] Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I need to sort of figure out how we're wrapping everything up, because I still have some stuff on deck, and certainly the cast is posting a lot of content just about this last weekend, and figuring out how to, sort of, like, wrap everything up, but just like, a little bit of the backs, I'll I don't want to waste anybody's time. And if you're listening right now and you're confused, okay, so I've been running the cats official Instagram slash Twitter, Facebook, media, online presence. Thank you.

[17:59] Mike Abrams: And Rachel, I've been talking basically, like daily for LOL, yeah,

[18:03] Speaker 2: exactly since November. So I took over in November. I had been so it's like light through spaco, which is a Broadway marketing agency. I'd been freelancing for them as, like a community manager. So on certain shows, I log in, I answer comments, questions, share stories, that kind of thing, which is like in our my wheelhouse, because of the theater lovers. I got the job because of the theater lovers, which is very cool, and something I would have never expected. Um, and yeah, last November, they were kind of having a shake up with, um, their content creators or social media managers, and they asked if I would take over cats. And I was, I was very intimidated by it, because it's such a huge, huge theater thing. And full disclosure going in, it was not my favorite musical. And we'll sort of talk about this a little bit later, where, like, Will is the cats guy. And I've always just sort of been like, I could take it or leave it. The songs are bops. I found the taping to be kind of like a nightmare, and like certainly the movie. I was like, What is this? What? What are we doing? So I was like, if you're cool with me, maybe not loving it, but understanding it, I'll definitely take it over. And I have grown to love it because of the interactions that I've had with the fans on the page, which is such a wild something I would have never experienced like anticipated going in. But yeah, since November, I've been running the page and creating memes and videos, and I've had such a great time doing it. But I really was curious if you were gonna when you'd reached out to us, if you were gonna piece together that I was the Rachel that you'd been working with. So this is just I did. Not so funny. I feel like I pulled one over on you.

[19:51] Mike Abrams: You did. I think the part of it was like, I've always tried to balance being like fun, make poke fun of the show, but also be positive. Above it, yeah, yeah. And so, like, that does. There's a lot of times where I tag some stuff, where I've tagged the official cast, and I'm like, this is kind of like, little, mean, a time, you know, like, it can be a little so I'm like, are they? Brian yelled that. I know how most people kind of view the show, and so I always just assumed, but so little was shared to me beside, like, with that, it was just like, oh, it's Rachel here. She runs it. Just message. And we just kind of went on Instagram back and forth, and it was just like, to me, I was talking to cats, like, you know, I was like, it wasn't a person. And then it was again. It was when Joanna told me that I'm like, because you kept saying you have to get some stuff approved from Joanna. And I'm like, I would have just messaged you on to myself. It wasn't

[20:36] Speaker 2: even Joanna, although, like, she's amazing, she's one of the She's so good. It was actually the theatrical group that, like, essentially, I have a whole string of bosses that I would have to clear everything with. And, yeah, no, was just, sort of like the one above me. And sort of she mentioned this when, when you interviewed her, that a lot of times it was just spell check, like she was just making sure I was spelling things. Probably, yeah, sentences made sense, but there was, there's, like, a whole hierarchy of people all the way up to, like, Really Useful Group, yeah, I had to sort of like, make sure, which is why we went back and forth so much where it's like, Oh, I love this idea, but I don't think it's gonna fly with them. But I will say, for all the people that I've sort of freelanced for, they've allowed me to have the most fun. And they, they really understood, like, sort of where I'm coming from as a content creator, and like, memes and sort of like, they, they let me do a lot of things that other people wouldn't necessarily, yeah, which is fun.

[21:34] Mike Abrams: They are they're great. They are protective. I did a fundraising event with the touring cast for like, a reunion, and it was a lot of, like, hurdles and clearance and nothing bad, but just like, oh, let's make sure we're respecting it. And that's where it's kind of fun for me. Is like, I, I've always wondered, like, do I want to talk to an Android Webber, if he'd ever even considered it? But I'm like, I my whole show. I have hundreds of episodes basically telling him that his ending is wrong. And so it's like, does do, I really, like, that's, that's my premise, is I want to famously

[22:07] Mike Abrams: so, like, every time it's like, Oh, if he, if he does learn, but I'm like, Yeah, but I'm that's my criticism, even as parody, that's the criticism. So it was, it was an early kind of delicate balance of, like, hopefully people see the fandom and parody in it, and not just like, like, because I actually do, I do want a different ending. Like, I firmly believe it deserves a different ending and and that makes it interesting, as I've talked to more super fans, because they're like, don't even like the revival choreography. And I'm like, I couldn't tell you the difference between the two choreographies, yeah,

[22:39] Speaker 2: very, very protective of the version that they love, for sure. But okay, so to answer your question, I know, tangent, no, my favorite thing that I've made, personally and sort of going along with the podcast and sort of the whole ethos of all of this was, there was when that Zoolander trend was happening a few months back, where it was, you know, Derek Zoolander walking out onto like a red carpet, and then he sees Hansel, and then realizes, you know, yeah, that things aren't going. My favorite thing that I made was a label of that, where it was like the other cats thinking that they're going to the heavy side layer. And then in walks in Grizabella. I just thought, I thought that was so funny. That's my favorite, personally, my favorite thing that I've made. Yeah, I think,

[23:29] Speaker 3: I think for me, it would be like a who would win, and it says, like the entire company of cats or one audience member going and, like, was it that? Was it a laser pointer? Or, like, it might have been maybe a laser pointer.

[23:48] Speaker 2: That's great. The thought is there either way,

[23:52] Mike Abrams: but there's I now I'm drawing a blank on which there's one, but there's one. You made that. Every time I see it, I'm like, I have to reshare it. It makes me laugh every time. And it's catch related. And now I'm drawing a blank on which one it is, and it was related to Grizabella. It was another, like Grizabella coming in. What

[24:07] Speaker 2: was it like through the ceiling? Yes, yes. That's hanging up from the ceiling.

[24:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah, because I didn't realize, you know, again, as I learned stuff, I didn't realize that they're grizzles on stage for 15 minutes of a two and a half hour show, which is wild. Yeah, so that was great. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we back for more of the wrong cat died. Okay, let's, let's pivot to your cats fandom. It seems like we have a had a mixed bag, but now we've got a two, you know, two lovers of it now. Yeah, yeah. But tell me a little bit about when was the first time you saw it? I

[24:54] Speaker 3: saw the first I saw the VHS tape as a kid. And was my sister and I would just like, jump around the the family room as it played and kind of like that, and step in time from Mary Poppins would just get it. Would just amp us up so much. And we, our parents would be like, okay, like, we need you to burn out some energy. Here you go. And we, we would just like, have so much fun dancing to it and singing it and playing it in the car. And eventually, my dad took us to see it on Broadway before it closed. And I don't know the exact date. We didn't keep the playbill for it at the time, so I really don't have a sense of when.

[25:47] Speaker 2: But there's a picture of you in the t shirt, and you you're young, yeah, I

[25:52] Speaker 3: think the photo is dated like 99 or 2000 Yeah,

[25:56] Mike Abrams: because the movie came out 98 and so yes, that's kind of and it closed early. 2000 September, 2000 Yeah, like, it closed pretty quickly after. So you had a short window, yeah, to go see it. And are you? So are you both from this area, from the New York area? Did you come to me?

[26:13] Speaker 2: I'm from Chicago, yeah, suburbs of Chicago, and I'm

[26:16] Speaker 3: from the suburbs of Pittsburgh. So you'd like took a trip for this, we took a trip. It was a little, little pilgrimage to go see a bunch of what, 40 something cats jump around.

[26:29] Mike Abrams: That is, I love that. That's the New York trip is, like, we're coming in and you have loved the show, you've danced around to this VHS, and we're gonna take a trip to New York and go see human cats on Broadway,

[26:43] Speaker 3: I was in it twice. I was in a student production in high school, and I was Rum Tum Tugger. And in retrospect, I'm like, I don't know how, how that was me. And then I was in a professional production as a swing, which was the hardest role I've ever done in anything. It was insane. Who did you cover? I covered everybody except Old Deuteronomy.

[27:09] Speaker 2: Bummer. Regional would have been ideal, but

[27:13] Speaker 3: it was January, and everybody in the company just kept getting sick. So as there were staging rehearsals, I would be taking notes for everybody, but also holding somebody spot mid rehearsal as they are figuring it out. So it was just insane. And then one rehearsal I was in for Old Deuteronomy, and yeah, it's like, I can't believe they're gonna make me sing the addressing of cats. Like, I'm just, I'm just a swing

[27:40] Mike Abrams: when you were to the high school production, what do they tell you of the story

[27:48] Speaker 3: they were? I mean, the bones of it, that's like the all Deuteronomy is gonna choose which of these cats gets to go to Kitty Heaven. Kitty Heaven was always the phrase that the director would use, but, and it was kind of sarcastic, but, yeah, like, there wasn't exactly a clearer way to put it.

[28:13] Mike Abrams: That's been the most surprising part of this whole journey for me is I didn't realize, like, you know, you see it, and you can kind of see it's pretty sexual. And there's some like, dance is very is it falls in that realm. But I think about, like, a high school age kid, and then you think about Victoria's solo is basically her having an orgasm on stage, and the balls and orgy and demeanors being sexually abused, and all this, like, deep background of what the characters are going through. And then I'm like, and we're gonna go do it in high school, or we're gonna go do it as, like, nine year olds. It's like, what do you tell them? Like, how do you give them the essence of their character to go play when it's when that's the actual answer to the question. Because you

[28:55] Speaker 2: had said in a previous podcast that after, like, the in 24 hours after you had seen it originally, you were like, This is not the kids should not see this. The whole

[29:05] Mike Abrams: time I was in there, I was like, you know, it was the first moment that I was and I was sitting next to children, I actually the first time I saw it was the last preview of 2016 or second most preview. My friend got sick, who got me the tickets for free? It was a friend who works on Broadway couldn't come. I had lived in New York for like, three weeks. Knew nobody really, and that the people I knew, it wasn't like, hey, in two hours, do you want to go see cats with me? You know, like, that wasn't going to be my first impression to some of my new co workers and friends. And so I went by myself, and it was like a rainy Saturday, and I was sitting next to two international people that were there, which I thought was like, great. I was like, this is the smartest thing for like this. Why I think it's so successful is like, you can be from anywhere, and it's kind of such a loose plot that you're just gonna enjoy really cool singing and dancing. Yeah, I hadn't to my other side. I had two nuns, which was very like, funny, because I, you know, I just moved from Indiana, and then I had kids around me. I. Everywhere. And this is pre COVID. And you know, they're doing the green eyes where they come through. But the moment that it was like, this is a lot. Is in Tugger song, there are three cats. And at least in this choreography I've seen, there's three cats that are on their knees right in front of him, and he, like, basically crotch thrust in their face. And I'm like, that that's pretty sexual for what the five year old sitting in front of me, you know, like that. And then it's like, then I've learned all this other stuff, and you can see that, like, it is that's a lot. And then they murder a cat at the end. Like, the more I started going, I'm like, you know, now I'm a little bit more softened on it. Of the up until teenage years, you're probably fine, because all the sexual stuff is going to go over your head. You're not going to recognize it. It's just cats dancing, but that 1314, to 18 range, you're probably picking up on most of that stuff. Yeah, and it's a it's definitely a decision. It's a decision to go. But I, I'm more fascinated by how they like project to do it as kids, for dancing, or for high school, or even regional, you know, I had somebody on who recently, who did it as a 10 year old in a regional production, and it's like they were playing one of the kittens. It's like, God, that's got to be so hard to kind of tell all the adults in the production this backstory, and then you've got to kind of almost protect the innocence of a 10 year old. Yeah, that's doing this. And it's, it is, you know, it's, it's a real life type of like, you know, there's nothing crazy about it. There's stories that should be told, but it's one that is so child based because of the cats aspect. And then the story so dark. And the movie was kind of dark. The new movie to the 19 movie was kind to the 19 movie was kind of dark. It's like, Yeah, this is what it could be or should be, if you really look at it and it's, it's, to me, it's just an interesting debate. I didn't go as a kid. My mom took my sister. I don't think either of them cared too much for it. And then I knew the podcast, nope, they didn't. I didn't even know. I didn't even know. Yeah, it was a little early for that. It was in probably in the 90s, so there wasn't, yeah, they didn't have the microphone set up. They're just tapes. Yeah, they're VHS tapes. Some were buried. No, I don't think either of them cared about it. My sister didn't do a lot of theater either, and but my mom was a music teacher, and that's where she plays the piano and played memory and some of that stuff. But then it was, like, I never, didn't thought about it, knew about it, or anything, until 2016 because I asked my friend, what I'm here now, what should I go see? That's like, classic. Because I hadn't seen anything that was like, very classic. I had seen more of, like, the book of Mormons and, like, I always call them the tourist shows, like the stuff where my What can I bring my friends from Indiana who aren't Theater People don't know I had seen those. I was like, Well, I'm here. Let's go on a random Tuesday to these other things, which is the beauty of being in New York. Yeah, and I ended up at cats as one of my first ones, and it was Leona Lewis, and it was an experience, unbelievable. But, you know, and now I'm talking to the cat social media people, yeah, here we are. What a journey. It's

[33:08] Speaker 2: been, honestly, okay, yeah, so that's Will's backstory. My backstory is I've, I've literally never seen it on stage, never, never. I was supposed to see this tour. I was gonna take a trip to Chicago to see them, and I was gonna visit family, and then it was like somebody in my family had gotten sick, and it was like a whole thing, and then I ended up not being able to go. I honestly, for a second thought about seeing them in Hawaii. I really did. I was like, should I? Should I just that a terrible place to enter to I, my God, I even, I DM to them, and I was like, Are you sure you don't want anybody to like cover the last like the tour, like you don't want to like post me up in point. But no, it's really not that deep. But no, I've never seen it in person. I've seen, you know, the the films, like the the pro shot. I've seen the 2019 film, and then my mom, growing up, my my family, it's very funny. I'm such a little odd duck in my family, because they're all like sports people and I, like came out of the womb, like, I love musical theater, whatever that is, my mom had like, a best of Andrew Lloyd Webber CD. And I can't remember exactly what was on it, but I know, like, I have a cassette tape of it right over, yeah, yeah, it's probably the same one, like, memory, and then probably, like, one or two other songs from cats. Like, that's what I grew up knowing. And then I knew, you know, it's based on the poem poems, the book of poems, it's Andrew Lloyd Webber, it's cats, and that it ran for a really long time, that was, that was all and then, like, the reference, the pop culture references to it, but, yeah, I've still never seen it on stage. I'm really sad that I didn't get to see this touring cast, because I feel like a very like parasocial, obviously, in like, a healthy way. But it's like I've interacted with them and watched them do live. And like, you know, like, share their content. So it's like, I feel like I know all of them. It would be very fun to see them do this tour, but it just didn't pan out.

[35:07] Mike Abrams: They were such a fun group of people. I had a blast going to meet them and hang out with them for basically two days. And you know, what's crazy about this is, I don't think a lot of people know this, but I've still only seen the show four times on stage. I saw Leona Lewis. I saw it a year later. My friend came back and was like, we've got to go see it. I know you're obsessed. I'm like, I'm not obsessed. I made one joke about this and because of it, and I just, like, thought about it. But we went again because they flew in from Indiana for work, and then they wanted to see one show, and they wanted to see cats. And not seen it again, until I went to the tour. And I went to DC twice, because I filmed with them the right before, which was my dream, was to give them ideas to go. I thought that

[35:50] Speaker 2: was so cool. I gave, I gave

[35:53] Mike Abrams: about half like, very traditional. Here's what some fans, fans think. And I gave about half like, there's nobody else that said this, but this is something I think could be really interesting. Let me know if it works. And then I came back, we watched it, and it was cool, because, like, I could see, at moments, I was like, Oh, you could see them trying that, like, because it was like, we were in a very good seat to watch it, and I was with my producer, and then I went the next day to film again with, how did it go? But to do that, it was like, you know, they're so busy. And, like, I was trying to be really mindful of, like, they're on tour, they're busy, they're doing shows on Saturday, they're gonna do two shows. Like, how can I do this? So I just showed up, like, an hour before and came right before they, like, went on as they were, like, doing makeup, and did that quick video of, like, did this work, or did it not? And then I just stayed for the show after cool. So I've seen it four times. I've seen the 2019 movie one and a half times. The half was during COVID, and they couldn't do it, and I have not really sat down to watch it again.

[36:55] Speaker 2: Did they make it to Jason Derulo screaming milk at the top of his lungs?

[36:58] Mike Abrams: Where did we cut off. It was about halfway through. It was like, again, it was during COVID. It was like, peak COVID, of where you were, like, what contents left? Like, we had watched Tiger King, the last dance, Jordan thing. Like we've watched everything. And I was like, let's watch this movie tonight. And about halfway through, they're like, does this get any better? And I go, No, it doesn't. It's about this it's about this level the whole way through. And they turned it off. Good representation, the cat

[37:23] Speaker 3: who is repeatedly said to not be there, he's actually there quite all the

[37:27] Mike Abrams: time, all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I've only seen the 1998 movie full through twice. Okay, yeah. And the first time was on a work trip, on a plane, on an iPad, and I was sitting on the plane, and I'm like, I like, took the window seat. I'm like, trying to hide it from one point, because I like, was usually just sitting, sitting on the table in front of me, whatever you're watching. And I'm like, This is gonna be a weird one, because I'm in business casual, like, with my work stuff with me, and all of a sudden, I pull out this iPad and throw it up on there, and it just started, and everyone around me started looking. And I'm gonna turn this a little bit. And I watched as the first time I ever watched it full through was on on a on a plane. I forget where I was going, but on a plane, and because it's what's on YouTube. So when I did my first episodes, it was all, I just watched clips from it. I didn't realize this from that movie, that's just what's on the official cats page. So I finally watched a full sitting through on a plane, and then went and had a very deep conversation about digital marketing with somebody which, which was a hard pivot, but it was a very funny like, you know, if you use everyone, I think, sees what people are watching, what they're doing, and you sometimes like, oh, that's kind of fun. I've seen that show. I know that I had some looks of like, what? What is this guy doing watching this, this version right now on on a work trip. Clearly, that's so funny, but yeah, and now I've recorded with 25 productions and regional productions and all kinds of stuff.

[38:52] Speaker 2: Which episode is this? This is like 100 and

[38:55] Mike Abrams: 120 I can tell you the exact number. This will be probably 123 Wow. And that doesn't include some bonuses and some other stuff that we've done. And, yeah, I mean, still going strong. I'm

[39:07] Speaker 2: trying to think if there's a more chaotic thing to watch on a plane,

[39:12] Mike Abrams: I guess so

[39:14] Speaker 2: I but maybe not even because it's so dark. That's true. I feel like, I feel like, if I were sitting on a plane and saw like, if I were like, looking, what would be a more? I think that's it.

[39:27] Speaker 3: One time I was on the subway, I it was the L at like, 2am as I was getting off of a restaurant job. And this man, there's that time before the L actually starts from Eighth Avenue. And this man gets on in a black suit, black tie, pitch black sunglasses, he sits down, puts a briefcase, like a metal briefcase, on the seat next to him, opens it up. There's a portable DVD player in there, and he starts playing men and. Black from the middle. This is a 2am L train. Yeah, moment,

[40:09] Mike Abrams: oh, man, I've had some subway moments as I've lived here since 2016 and yeah, you you see some stuff. And yeah,

[40:15] Speaker 2: I guess the only thing that could have made your flight better is if you had been dressed as in cat. I think

[40:20] Mike Abrams: what makes it strange is like they're in costume, so and it's not cartoon, it's like they're human and cats. And I love all the videos. I think, I think your cast has shared some, but like, when they do two show days and they don't get out of makeup, and they just put a hat on and go to lunch, after dinner, after before their other show, it's like, yeah, they're gonna get some looks, yeah? But that's, you know, some people will get it, yeah. Some people get it. Other people will be everything I said. I just talked to the he's, he was, he went to the heiress tour for Taylor Swift in he was so funny, and I didn't even think about it, because he wore that on the subway, basically, to the train to go there. And I'm like, I've seen so many weirder things, like the men in black things, if you see it, it's like, he's like, Yeah, but that's, that's not you. He's like, it's different when everyone's looking at you, yeah, that's such a good point. Like, I've sat down to next to somebody dressed in not cat was more of like a it was they had a cat mask on. But this wasn't like, it was like a full on headgear, ears, everything. I was like, it's, it was past when most people are wearing them for COVID. So I think it was more of a decision just, and it sat, just sat down right next to me, and I'm like, yeah, that's, that's New York. I was gonna say

[41:36] Speaker 2: that's the beauty of New York, though it's like, you'll get maybe one look, but not a second one. No, this.

[41:41] Mike Abrams: I mean, you can you definitely get the looks. I would be watching men in black with that guy. Yeah, although I'd be a little concerned at first, I'd be like, if he's in full, get up, did he try to erase your memory?

[41:54] Speaker 2: I don't. He wouldn't know. Yeah, it's true. You wouldn't know. Wouldn't know

[41:58] Mike Abrams: that. Me, that would have been what I would have been what I would have done. I would have brought that thing out. If you're gonna commit to the bid, you gotta go in. Okay, let's do some cats. Rapid fire, if you could play any cat character for one night. Who do you want to play?

[42:17] Speaker 3: I would want to play monkey strap role that I was like, He's He's just got, like, so many good, like, presentational moments. I think this seems so fun. Did you

[42:29] Mike Abrams: get to go on as him as Wayne? No,

[42:30] Speaker 3: I never got to go on his mochas trap. But that's the one that I was like, really, really, I'm praying for everyone's safety, but I this would be fun,

[42:39] Mike Abrams: nice.

[42:42] Speaker 2: I think I my girl Grizz. I think Grizabella Princess track, Come on, sing the the song. Just, yeah, I

[42:52] Mike Abrams: think, I mean a little bit. And first I love,

[42:54] Speaker 2: I love that makeup. I love, I don't know, I think it's she's, she's so interesting, or oral dude. You know, I'm a big fan of sitting, yeah, I also like, I am, I guess I've never considered any of the dancing tracks, because it's not my gig. It's not, not what I do. So, yeah, I mean, seems a little intimidating, but yeah, Grizabella all the way. I think that would be a lot of fun. I can't

[43:20] Mike Abrams: sing or dance. So this is more of like, theoretically, okay,

[43:26] Mike Abrams: yeah, I'm not. This is not Michael.

[43:27] Speaker 2: You know what? I'd love to do, the Mungo Jerry rumple teaser cartwheel. That would be so, so sick. But just that one moment, if I, if I could do one, like creed from the office, like, one perfect cartwheel.

[43:42] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's that part's fun because it's only time you're by yourself, basically on stage, like they get their moment, whereas everyone else is and besides, gray is, is always like, here's all of us together at one time,

[43:54] Speaker 3: and stage the whole show, show for most of

[43:58] Mike Abrams: us. Yeah, yeah. And it was fun. Taryn and Brian were like, so good on the tour, doing it

[44:09] Mike Abrams: who are your favorite and least favorite cats from the musical?

[44:13] Speaker 3: Hmm, I know everyone's always have a silly answer where it's like, oh, like, like, pounciful, of course, but like, I know that more, just because the names are so fascinating. But Oh gosh,

[44:34] Speaker 2: my favorite is Jason Derulo screaming milk at the top of his lungs, okay. My least favorite is Idris Alba, when he takes off his coat and then he's looks naked. That's my least favorite. No, I'm sorry it's Judy dent, drinking eye contact with

[44:55] Mike Abrams: favorite. That was a that. Is the moment of that. I mean, that was a moment where I'm like, this is, this is a decision. Yeah,

[45:05] Speaker 2: that was wild, wild, wild. And

[45:09] Speaker 3: it would have, honestly it, it wouldn't have been so jarring if it were not a close up. A lot of my thing with Tom Hooper is like, you can, you can step back like, it seems like he's a close talker, because everything is shot in a close up all the time. Yeah, that's one of my scale least

[45:27] Speaker 2: favorite things about musical theater directing for film is like everything is just too zoomed in. I

[45:33] Mike Abrams: I mean, I don't understand why more this is I'm not in the industry and to know how this works. But as a viewer, especially at the 2019 movie. I'm like, just zoom out. Let me watch the dancing. Why? Why can I not just have

[45:46] Speaker 2: pictures? Yeah, just give me the yes

[45:49] Mike Abrams: pictures. Camera at orchestra center, row j and wide lens in let people watch it the way it was intended. In

[45:58] Speaker 3: the 30s, Fred Astaire and Hermes pan were like, You need to show the entire dancer to appreciate dance on film. You can't shoot people from the waist up, because you lose half of the performance, yeah? And

[46:10] Speaker 2: unless you're shooting Kermit the Frog tap dancing, and then that's how you have to shoot it, yeah? I

[46:16] Speaker 3: mean, you don't have to shoot it that way. It's just it makes it easier. But there are, there are times

[46:22] Speaker 2: are you applying that, that the Kermit, the frog, is actually tap dancing, and they're just beautiful. They see you

[46:29] Speaker 3: don't think he's actually tap dancing there. No, there's a there's a technique. If you look up the Muppets Happy Feet on on YouTube, it's a Hollywood Bowl performance where they do have puppeteers for the feet, for the feet, it is, but

[46:48] Speaker 2: it's not so fun to watch. We're talking about film. See, this is what we do every morning. This is, this is a theater lover sneak peek.

[46:56] Speaker 3: But what is cool about that Hollywood Bowl clip is that he you do see the performers, and they are in, like a, not a green screen, full body suit, but it's like black, so they blend in, and everything is projected. So you are seeing the performers in person, and you're seeing the projection of it like, like a camera would see, and like they could do that. We got wild. We got off topic.

[47:22] Mike Abrams: I think you should have, I think you have a template that you can use in the will decimal system. You need to search waist up. Wait, if you have waist up, and that can be your next thing, of like, you've lost the feet. It's

[47:34] Speaker 2: a where. Where did they go? What do you have from there? Did you say most and least favorite cats?

[47:40] Speaker 3: I think my favorite is skimble Shanks, because I do love his. I love that song. Every time it happens, it's like in the perfect spot where you need a pickup. Yeah, least favorite, I think it's got to be growl Tiger for just the issues.

[48:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah, yeah, I, I never saw the growl Tiger, so I but yes, I'm aware of the issues. 7485

[48:15] Mike Abrams: okay, what's your favorite song from the show? Do?

[48:23] Speaker 3: My favorite melodic line, and I it's enough to propel the whole song for me in the addressing of cats, that melody of with cats, some say one thing is true, it. That is a beautiful, ascending melody. I love it. I love it. That's

[48:41] Speaker 2: great. I go back and forth all the time. I'm such a misto girly. So Mr. Misto Phillies, and I feel like the three that I sing the most are Mr. Misophys, Rum Tum, Tugger, and just your classic jellicles are angelicals too. Those

[49:02] Mike Abrams: are the three you sing the most. Wow, yeah, I like it. They're also the three

[49:06] Speaker 2: that I would use the most in stories, too, and probably just in the content in general, I'm biased. I create little parodies of them all the time. I'm just like throwing random words. And I don't know my I don't know how my but, like I said, My brain's very chaotic. So

[49:22] Mike Abrams: I listened to Macavity and Mungo Jerry Rumpel teaser probably the most like in terms of just listen to

[49:29] Speaker 2: Mongo Jerry and rumble. Teaser got a little bit ruined for me, because will sister Beth, I guess. Do you want to tell the

[49:36] Speaker 3: story? Yeah, I would love to the when one of the, one of the times that we did cats, the she had a crush on the guy that played mango, Jerry. And so, one of the times we were talking about it, she just started singing Mongo Jerry and Beth.

[49:57] Speaker 2: That's like, the only I walk around the house singing all the time, like. Mongo Jerry and Beth. That's like it's

[50:02] Speaker 3: ruined on CS Elliot,

[50:08] Mike Abrams: cats have three names. One might be Beth.

[50:17] Mike Abrams: a cat named Peter. Why not? Peter's my least favorite. That's my answer. Good. It's always been my answer is, Peter is my least favorite. It's bus Gus. It's bus Gus, dancing cat in the beginning. And that's only in 2016 because they have different names and other versions. And so it's like, Christopher, I was like, You are my choice of Gus, but also my least favorite choices, Peter.

[50:43] Mike Abrams: Peter. There's also Gilbert and productions. Yeah, there's some yeah, there's some choices. I just learned about one. I don't know if the episode will be out yet, so, but there was a they nicknamed a generic ensemble cat that just danced the open number, and they had this cat come in and didn't have a name, and so they kind of made up names for him every night, and it was just like a very It wasn't even like a costume. It was just like a generic onesie and a different makeup pot just to have another body to dance. I was like, that's really what Peter is, yeah, but it's yeah, you just needed, you needed someone to dance. Which cat do you think would be the best content creator? I've thought about this a lot, so I'm a lot of answers to this question.

[51:31] Speaker 3: it because I know I'm gonna forget names. I was like, oh gosh, jelly, Laura. I'm what?

[51:36] Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show my my hand a little bit, and what the so the cat that Taylor Swift played in the movie bomb ballerina,

[51:45] Mike Abrams: ballerina, maybe her. She's a good answer. She would definitely be.

[51:50] Speaker 2: I feel like she's got a lot of she's got a lot of time on her hands too, right? Yeah,

[51:54] Mike Abrams: so I should be tick talking for sure. For sure, every

[51:57] Speaker 2: dance, it depends on what platform are we talking about,

[52:00] Mike Abrams: I think there's, yeah, I have answers for all of them. I think she's a tick tock queen. She's doing all the dances on tick tock Instagram. She's

[52:07] Speaker 2: got that, like, the bedazzled catnip. She's like, she's a lifestyle influencer through and through. That's my vote.

[52:15] Speaker 3: I think Mr. Mistoffelees would be really good with video editing for tick tock. Yeah, the magic good, yeah, yeah.

[52:29] Mike Abrams: GPT, yeah, I love that. That's really I've got a couple others of you. Yeah, I think bus for Jones is a cooking influencer. Oh, for sure, I could see him doing, you know, just his recipes and cooking there. And he's got the money, so he's got a, you know, amazing kitchen. I think you could potentially have Gus telling old stories, like an old actor, yeah? But I feel like that's a YouTube channel, yeah, that's not, that's not queens, yeah. And then I could see, like, I'm not sure which one, it's probably like a tumble Brutus or pounceable, or alanza, one of those kittens. I just think they're gonna be like a trickster, trick shot artists, you know, like, how those people spend like, hours doing stuff totally to get, like, the one moment? Yeah,

[53:17] Speaker 2: I do a compilation of them all back to back. So satisfying. That's where they're going. Yeah, I totally see that. Oh, those are so good. I thought of

[53:25] Speaker 3: one more, you know, who'd be doing all of the the Tiktok dances, and always in the exact moment, it's Jenny, any dots? Oh,

[53:34] Mike Abrams: yeah, yeah, yeah. If she's, she's kind of lazy at times, though, so it's like, if she just finally, she's one that's a sporadic posting. It's like, Yeah, she'll catch one of the

[53:45] Speaker 2: trans joy in it, yeah, she's, yeah, she's infectious because she's, you're like, I want to see more. And

[53:53] Speaker 3: the fan engagement is always crazy because she's got, like, mice and Roach cockroaches, yeah? But there's a lot of those. Yeah, they're

[54:07] Mike Abrams: okay, the million dollar question, yeah, I've argued. I don't think this should be Grizabella. I want to hear, are you going to defend Grizabella? Are you going to make a different Jellicle choice?

[54:21] Speaker 3: I i is i? I like to make, I like to ask the question in theater, is this a good character, or is this a good song?

[54:32] Speaker 2: Oh, don't confuse a good song with a good yeah. We

[54:36] Speaker 3: that started with Freddie from my fair lady with on the street where you live, where it's like he's still very dumb and he's not. He's demonstrated several times he and Eliza Doolittle are not a good fit. But because his song is so convincing and it's very romantic, you forget that he is just standing outside a woman's house who he talked to one. Yes. And he's like, I'm obsessed with you holding up a boom box. I can say anything. And she's like, I don't want to come outside. Man, the you were not invited. The maid has to be like, You need to go. But it's a good song. So everyone forgets about that. Grizabella, I think memory really is a great song that makes a better argument than her, than her circumstances do.

[55:31] Speaker 3: I don't know who I would pick, though, because I, I mean, I want to go like skimble Shanks, who I love his song, and I love how, you know what? Let's make it skimble Shanks, because he deserves a break.

[55:49] Speaker 3: yeah, he's working on a train, and he, I mean, he has full range of where to be in the train, but he's still at work. Still at work. Yeah, yeah, his his home and workplace are the same, and that's exhausting. Let him rest. I think that's great. That's insane.

[56:11] Speaker 2: I also believe the wrong cat died. I think it's so wild that she finally gets redemption, and everybody's cool with her, and then she's immediately brutally murdered in some way.

[56:28] Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, we don't know that saddest

[56:32] Speaker 2: cat rides tyre into sky. No, I think that's so wild. She's like, Oh, let the memory live again for the next 60 seconds until I'm gone forever. What are we talking about? So I'm a Gus girly. I think I you want to talk about somebody who needs rest. It's, it's, it's my sweet Gus. So as

[56:56] Mike Abrams: theater, much more theater knowledgeable people than me, is that argument that she should go like, that she should stay with the family? Has that been something you'd heard before? Because I've been saying that for probably the past year and a half, and I'm wondering, like, I always wonder, Am I influencing this?

[57:12] Speaker 2: I think you're the cat's influencer, or is there like,

[57:16] Mike Abrams: because, and I know the tipping point was I started to bring on younger grizabellas. And so my introduction wasn't a, and not like old, old, but much more of like a, a. They've had a longer career. Grizabella as that were in the, you know, in the 80s and 90s, versus now. It's like Taylor's in her 20s and like, and that's been a consistent trend, and that's most of my introduction were people that were 30s, at bad oldest, like, their 20s and 30s. And I'm like, they look so young, even though they're trying to, like, she doesn't need to be murdered, like, let her spend time with the family. So I've been saying that as my Gus, like my true Gus argument, for a while, is that, but I never heard that before, and I but I also don't know anything about cats prior to 2016 so I was like, was that people are thinking about, or did nobody even make this question to begin with, and I'm the only person asking it, because I'm crazy.

[58:07] Speaker 3: I think part of that is that the economics of how touring casts work totally have changed, and pretty much from 2000 to today, which is also the amount of time cats has not been on Broadway like like. From what it was cats closed in 2000 that was also the same season as the Music Man revival, which its national tour went out non equity, and equity changed the rules of certain types of national tours so that they could ensure that they always go out equity. And that did mean that touring casks tended to skew much younger as a result, which changes who plays Grizabella and who how that story is told. Yeah, it's an economic decision that has shared how we view and process these stories. Oh, definitely.

[59:08] Mike Abrams: I'm sure it's in happening in a lot of other different shows as well. Like, it's just happening across the board. If you have, like, you're not gonna have, like, we were talking about Kimberly Kimball, of like, how this could be really interesting when that goes out on tour later in the world of, like, opening up the door to this, you know, this aging actress that can play this, like, iconic part, but also, like, if they, if they brought somebody in for that, they, I mean, it kind of has to look skew older on that show. But there's, like, there it changes. This the story. And I've always, like, my whole thing with cats is, I don't even look at it as as actors and people. I'm like, No, I want to talk about, where did grisabelle go when she left? Like, like, sports, that's not in there, plot line, stuff that's like, probably never even thought about or wasn't discussed at that type of detail, how it's about cats. I was like, exactly like, I want to go deep into the the rest of the world. Created, and so it makes it interesting, because, like I do think that I have seen the numbers go down over time. It was a lot more grizzabels Early on, and I've now seen the numbers slowly, slowly trickle to where she's less than half of the people I talked

[60:12] Speaker 2: to. I think you've made a very compelling argument. I think it's really what it is. I still want,

[60:17] Mike Abrams: I want to do a version I like want, and I know they're gonna do the ballroom version in in the new place, and it's gonna be awesome, because it's gonna be a different it's gonna be different, like, it's gonna be totally different. I was, like, really, really excited about there is a version, and the really useful group would never let me do it. But there's a version where you could go to a like a regional theater and vote every night, and that person Exactly, there is that ability to make that story, and I think it would be amazing, and I want it, I want to see it happen, but they're never gonna let me because it's 42 years old and has had success for 42 years.

[60:52] Speaker 2: I'd say never. Say Never. I mean, they're letting them do a ballroom version. That's true. I feel like, I feel like I also

[60:59] Mike Abrams: have zero ability to direct produce

[61:06] Mike Abrams: pretty much can just tell you that outline of an idea, and we'll need to hand it to somebody else who actually knows what they're doing in the industry, sure, but that's my dream. Still, I love that idea. I think that's amazing. One of my other dreams y'all allowed me to do, which was to go tell the cast ideas to go try on stage. Yeah, more fun, cool.

[61:26] Speaker 2: I can't take any credit for that. I was just, I was just watching you do it and reporting on it.

[61:33] Mike Abrams: And the conversations were hilarious. I mean, the stuff that didn't even make it in, like, we had to cut a bunch of this stuff out because we, we filmed for probably like hours to talk to everybody and to pull out the snippets that were, that were fun. It was like 10 episodes into one.

[61:50] Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want, I want to shout out the the touring cast. I think that they're just all amazing. All amazing. Yeah. I just wanted to say hi and thanks for letting me be a very, very small part of the journey.

[62:02] Mike Abrams: They were the amazing group of people. I mean, not just the cat, the cast was amazing. The production team who, like, helped out. Like, yeah, everybody involved just made it so easy to to work with, which is like, I don't, I wasn't sure how easy I was at the beginning. Because I'm like, I'm I would answer at nights like, like, I was responding during odd hours when I wasn't working and and they were, and it's like when they're on stage, so it's like the opposite schedules. But they were, they were great, and it all all ended up great. This is amazing. How can people stay in touch with you all on social media and in general, to keep up with all your amazing memes and hilarious content. Oh,

[62:37] Speaker 2: thank you so much. Yeah, great. We are

[62:41] Speaker 3: always named the theater lovers. On Instagram and Tiktok, it's at the underscore theater with an ER, underscore lovers. And then on Twitter, it's just theater underscore lovers. Awesome. Well, this

[62:56] Speaker 2: stuff in the pipe down the pipeline, so I can't

[63:00] Mike Abrams: wait to see, yeah, follow. Always love it. I'll be sharing anything you make cats. I'll be sharing unless I just collab on more.

[63:07] Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's great. And we actually were sitting on a lot of memes that we made, sort of thinking that they were going to be for the page that maybe were not quite a good fit. So, so we'll,

[63:22] Mike Abrams: tag you all the stuff that got rejected by your bosses are gonna come out now.

[63:26] Speaker 2: Even rejected some of them we made, and we were just like, we can't put this on the official page, but we can put it on ours, so there's more cats content coming from a nice little pile of me so

[63:39] Mike Abrams: excited, amazing.

[63:41] Speaker 2: Thank you for having us on. We really appreciate it. Thank

[63:45] Mike Abrams: you so much. Thank you for being here, and thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died. The podcast picked on the catastrophe to follow on. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or any podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Tiktok at the wrong cat died. Or check our website, the wrong cat died.com. You.