This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Cat Statutory. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. We actually met a while ago, but right now you can see him as a swing in The Outsiders on Broadway, which is an incredible show. But before that, The Outsiders posted a fun little Instagram story where I learned that he performed in the 2017 STAR Theatre Production of Cats as Munkustrap. So I'm excited to have Victor Carrillo Tracey to join me today and talk about Cats and The Outsiders.

[0:46] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

[0:49] Mike Abrams: Welcome to the show. We met in a very different format, but I'm excited because I did not know about the Cats history when we first met. And obviously, I don't think you even probably knew I did this show. But so now we get to marry these two things together, which is really fun. But I always like to start at the beginning of your Cats history. So before the 2017 regional production, how familiar with the show? Was it like the 1998 movie? Was it on VHS for you growing up?

[1:17] Victor Carrillo Tracey: No, it wasn't. I actually saw my sister do a production of it. And it was a pretty good production. And I was watching in the audience. And I was both times confused and very intrigued. I was like, wow, this is so... I had very limited knowledge of theater as a middle schooler, high schooler. I wasn't like a full on theater kid. I had very select pieces that I liked. I was into Tommy and I was into Les Mis. And then I wasn't just like an all-consuming theater kid. So when I sat down to see Cats, I was like, oh, wow, this is something I, you know, this is a corner of the market I haven't reached yet.

[2:07] Mike Abrams: How old were you?

[2:07] Victor Carrillo Tracey: I was like 16, maybe.

[2:10] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. So your sister was doing it. You were at a point where you at least recognized what was going on.

[2:12] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And then I was just confused, but also intrigued. And then from that, I was like, okay, well, I got to see what, you know, the rest of this, you know, lore is. And I did go to the filmed stage production, which was in '98, you said?

[2:32] Mike Abrams: Yeah, 1998 was the filmed production.

[2:37] Victor Carrillo Tracey: And I really liked that pro shot, actually. I thought it was a very well done pro shot. And I actually remember watching the Rum Tum Tugger number maybe like 10 or 15 times in a row, because I thought that was a very, very well done pro shot number. And I was very impressed by that. But yeah, that was my first kind of occurrence run in with the musical.

[3:05] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And who did your sister play?

[3:05] Victor Carrillo Tracey: She was, no, geez, she was the one, the young one that sings at the end, that sings Memory, which is Syllabub, right?

[3:14] Mike Abrams: Syllabub. Yeah.

[3:21] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Okay. So Syllabub. And how old was she when she was, was this the same theater or was this a different place?

[3:25] Victor Carrillo Tracey: It was the same theater that did, that was the first iteration of that production. And then when it came back around a couple of years later, I was in the production.

[3:34] Mike Abrams: Okay. Because it was so, it was so, you know, it sold so well, they found Jack.

[3:39] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Um, but she was, she was maybe if I was 16, she was 13.

[3:45] Mike Abrams: Wow. So, so that fascinates me. I've now talked to a few people who did it as like children, 13, 15. And it's just wild to me when, you know, the story and the plot that, that it's like, yeah, cool. We'll just let a 13 year old do this.

[3:55] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yeah. Metallical ball together and just pretend it's not what it actually is supposed to be.

[4:03] Mike Abrams: Literally. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[4:05] Mike Abrams: Okay. So then it comes back, it rolls back around and you audition, how old are you? Like how, how much professional work have you done at this point?

[4:13] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Um, I grew up in a town called Portsmouth, New Hampshire. It's on the coast of New Hampshire in Maine. Uh, and there's like, it was perfect when I was growing up, there was like this cluster of regional, like not, not fully equity houses, but like houses that had, you know, room for a couple equity out of town contracts. And then a lot of local actors that like lived in town and it was pretty special. I don't think a lot of places in the United States had that amount of regional theaters that would cast locally. Um, so there was a play house, which is a great regional house. There was the seacoast trap. There was a star theater in Catery. There was a bunch of them. And so when I was in high school, I had the privilege of, you know, working regionally, you know, slash professionally at like a pretty base level while I was still in school. I'd done a couple of regional shows, um, up to that point. Um, but yeah, this was in my senior year of high school that I was doing this production, my senior year of high school.

[5:18] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So it's 2017 senior year of high school. You're doing probably four to six weeks is my guess.

[5:23] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I, my first question always for regional productions is how much did they tell you about Munkustrap? Like what, what kind of backstory and background did they give you for your character?

[5:37] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Um, not a whole lot. Okay. I would say, uh, I kind of, you know, I think there's a lot of, I think in regional productions to no, to no fault of anybody, every, you know, the, the, the go is so fast and the artistic director's hands are on, you know, if this set gets made and if this is, it's just like a free for all. So I think character development is probably very low on the list for regional productions. Um, so, uh, I didn't have much information about it. Uh, I, you know, it was very much about the steps and the, you know, the look of it all. And, you know, the lifts first and, you know, character development, it came pretty, pretty late in the game.

[6:06] Mike Abrams: It's so it's interesting. Cause it's like, I've now talked to a lot of the regional theaters, some that are doing it. And it's exactly that. It's like, we've got a show that I can't let two people kick each other in the face, let alone try to tell them the backstory of this very loose plot that exists. But, you know, having seen it and kind of been through it, like, did you try to add, how much did you try to build of your character in the five weeks? Or was it just like, again, make sure I'm at point A to point B, sing the right notes and then move on.

[6:51] Victor Carrillo Tracey: No, I took care of that. I took care of that first, but then I definitely, I understood as much as I could about him being kind of a protector, um, and, uh, uh, like a leader. Uh, I was also at the time, I was also a senior in high school, trying to get into musical theater colleges. So it was like a lot of double duty. So I was like, you know, I tried to imbue as much of, of, uh, of me as, you know, an older brother as kind of, you know, a leader among friends as, as that in, in, you know, my role in the pack of that show. Um, yeah, it was, uh, and I think that's, as far as it went, I didn't really go far into the, um, you know, into the, the, uh, the poems of the text. I, I kind of, uh, yeah, I think that's as far as it went for me.

[7:40] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Did your sister do this production too?

[7:40] Victor Carrillo Tracey: She did. Yeah.

[7:42] Mike Abrams: Okay. Who was she in this one?

[7:42] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Oh, no, no. She didn't do this. She did the, she did. Oh, she did. She did the first one. Yes. She didn't do this, this revival, if you will. Yeah. They brought, they brought it back years later.

[8:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah, exactly. They, they sold out. They couldn't, they couldn't handle the demand.

[8:06] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Exactly. Had to bring it back. Right. I love that. Um, as a, you know, there's probably, what was the range of like performers? Like you're in high school years ago, you had a 13 year old doing it for your sister. Did you have that same kind of wide range? And what was the, like, it's such an ensemble family based show. Like how does that build in five weeks?

[8:28] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yeah, there was people that had done it the first time around. Uh, there was some pretty great dancers. Um, a couple of people from the city, from New York, there's a couple of people who, uh, were locals, but again, there was in, in the town where when, which I grew up, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like a Boston or, or like an LA where there's like a lot of talent, but there was like dedicated people who would move to this town to just do the regional productions that were there. Um, and that, you know, they, they, and they, a lot of them are part of this production and they were great, fantastic dancers. A lot of people from the local college dance programs, uh, UNH dance, uh, I think, um, even some from UMass.

Um, so yeah, it was a, it was a, as bustling a scene professionally as it could have been for Portsmouth, New Hampshire. That's the way I always kind of think about it. So it was kind of a mix. There was some, there was, there was professional actors, there was one or two equity actors. Um, and then I always kind of wrote the line of like, um, I knew this is what I was going to do for, for a career. And so they kind of let me where like, you know, they would have a couple of high schoolers in the ensemble. They would always kind of be gracious enough to kind of, you know, elevate me in a role, um, amongst people from out of town or people from colleges and stuff like that, which would be really great, which is an awesome experience to have. Um, so yeah.

[9:58] Mike Abrams: I mean, you're a lot of times when you hear high school or younger for characters, it is the, the like Alonzo's or tumble Brutus or the, the syllabubs. It's like the ones where you're dancing and you're kind of just singing, but I mean, you have a focal role, like you are almost a narrator. So they gave you at, at high school, at senior in high school, a pretty meaningful role, which is awesome.

[10:20] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yeah, it was good. It's good experience. So at the end of your five weeks, did you feel like you understood Cats? Like, or is it just, uh, we put on the unitard, we dance, we sang, and now I'm ready for my next one to go to college next year.

[10:36] Victor Carrillo Tracey: I don't know. I think maybe a little both. Um, I, I think I understood my version of it or the version of it we were trying to, trying to do. I really did. Speaking of Utah, I really did enjoy doing that and putting that on every, and like, you know, for original production, the makeup actually, and the costumes weren't that bad. Um, cause I've seen some other, you know, some regional are like, whoa, that's crazy. Um, but these were rented from like some, you know, some tour and they looked, I mean, the, every unitard was exactly like carbon copy of what, you know, went out on the tours and stuff. And I was like, all right, this is cool. So when I got into that and, and, you know, snapped on all the, the fur parts and, and put that makeup on, I was, I was, I always, I mean, it was a certain feeling that, that is, I don't think is replicated in any other costume I've ever worn before, where it's just, you look at yourself and you're like, holy crap, this is definitely not me, you know, an hour ago.

And I enjoyed that. And so getting, I kind of, you know, that also opens up a physicality, uh, within yourself and when you interact with other people that you just don't get when you're wearing a sweatshirt and, um, you know, sweatpants in rehearsal. So I got, I got lost in that a little bit. I think I understood the physicality of it and really enjoyed, uh, that kind of that weirdness in those colors that I don't usually get to paint for, paint with for other roles. Um, but yeah, also, you know, it was a four week run, so I didn't, you know, I didn't like really just, you know,

[12:06] Mike Abrams: Welcome back to The Wrong Cat Died. Today, we have a special guest, Victor Carrillo Tracey, who performed as Munkustrap in the 2017 STAR Theatre production of CATS and is currently a swing in The Outsiders on Broadway.

[12:36] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Thank you for having me, Mike. It's great to be here.

[13:01] Mike Abrams: So, Victor, let's dive into your journey with CATS. What was your first experience with the show?

[13:31] Victor Carrillo Tracey: My first experience with CATS was actually through my family. My mom introduced me to the musical when I was young, and it really sparked my interest in dance and theater.

[14:01] Mike Abrams: That's amazing! How did that influence your decision to pursue a career in the performing arts?

[14:25] Victor Carrillo Tracey: It was a huge influence. Watching CATS made me realize how powerful storytelling through movement can be. I wanted to be a part of that world.

[14:49] Mike Abrams: And you ended up playing Munkustrap! What was that experience like for you?

[15:13] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Playing Munkustrap was incredible. I tried to imbue as much of me as an older brother, as a leader among friends, in my role in the pack. It felt like a natural fit.

[15:43] Mike Abrams: That’s a great perspective. What were some of the challenges you faced during the production?

[16:13] Victor Carrillo Tracey: One of the biggest challenges was the physicality of the role. The choreography is demanding, and I had to ensure I was always in top shape to keep up with the energy of the show.

[16:43] Mike Abrams: I can imagine! Did you have any memorable moments from the production that stand out to you?

[16:53] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Absolutely! There was one night when we had a surprise guest in the audience, and the energy was electric. It made the performance feel even more special.

[17:17] Mike Abrams: That sounds incredible! Now, transitioning to your role in The Outsiders, how does that compare to your experience in CATS?

[17:41] Victor Carrillo Tracey: The Outsiders is a different beast altogether. It's more grounded in reality, while CATS has this fantastical element. Both require a different approach, but I love the challenge.

[18:01] Mike Abrams: It must be exciting to switch between those two styles. How do you prepare for such different performances?

[18:31] Victor Carrillo Tracey: I focus on the emotional truth of each character. For Munkustrap, it was about leadership and protection, while for The Outsiders, it's more about camaraderie and survival.

[18:47] Mike Abrams: That makes a lot of sense. Speaking of camaraderie, you mentioned earlier about casting The Outsiders characters as CATS. Can you share some of your thoughts on that?

[19:17] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Sure! I think it would be fun to see characters like Ponyboy as a more introspective cat, maybe a Rum Tum Tugger type, while Johnny could be a more timid character, like a shy kitten.

[19:47] Mike Abrams: I love those ideas! It’s fascinating to see how those characters could translate into the CATS universe.

[20:17] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Exactly! It’s all about finding those connections and seeing how the themes of both stories resonate with each other.

[20:47] Mike Abrams: Well, Victor, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us today. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show.

[21:03] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Thank you for having me, Mike! It’s been a blast.

[21:33] Mike Abrams: And to our listeners, be sure to check out The Outsiders on Broadway and follow Victor on Instagram at @victorctracey.

[22:03] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Thanks, everyone!

[22:33] Mike Abrams: Until next time, keep questioning everything about CATS!

[23:03] ♪ Musical number ♪

[24:03] Mike Abrams: See you next time!

[24:13] Victor Carrillo Tracey: So rare and so so unique to the Broadway experience where you know in a movie nobody can you know if I was affected by an actor? I can't really go tell that actor immediately. But yeah, you got to find me and you know, I got to find her and we got to have that moment, you know, 20 minutes after you know that last scene on stage, which is really cool. Yeah, it is definitely a very unique part to Broadway and theater to be able to have those moments and absolutely accessibility and maintain that like, you know, in a very unique and cool healthy way. Yeah, and as I also think for you, it's probably unique by playing so many different characters you get kind of to impact somebody a different way at a different night. So you said you mentioned Darryl you play soda pop like you get different kind of cuts of the experience by being different brothers or different, you know, I think you play so too so like you kind of yeah on all sides of the spectrum.

[25:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's funny to see how people react differently when I'm like if I'm like, you know, Paul on a stage door people are different than if I'm like soda pop. It's just it's it's hilarious and I also really appreciate you know, there's people that again with the fandom that you know will come to the show because they know I'm scheduled to be on for something they haven't seen me as and so that's really that's really cool. And you know people are always like oh, you know I've seen you as as Daryl and as soda pop and what are you know? I really wanted to see the other and it's just very much appreciated to to have you know a fan base for the show that appreciates the people that aren't always scheduled to go on for the role and that's really really special.

[25:52] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yeah, I we're gonna test your cats character here. Oh, geez. I like to I like to cast the Outsiders characters as if the cat's characters are playing them and so I've thought a little bit about this. I do think a couple of them line up pretty well some shows like this with it's like really hard so I'll help you out in case you you know, you know, I did day five weeks you don't remember some of the names. Yeah, but I'm just gonna go I'm gonna go backwards here. So I'm gonna start with Paul. Who do you think Paul would talk to you? That would be Paul Paul would be Macavity.

[26:27] Mike Abrams: Actually have Darryl or Dallas as Macavity really Wow cuz Dallas has done a lot of crime. Okay, and and that's kind of the only reason I did that. Okay, there's some Dallas is is pretty slick and and you know and cool and sure and I think there's a little bit of that Macavity. I had Paul as Alonzo because similar kind of, you know built-up character not always in the forefront though, but definitely doing a lot behind the scenes. Yeah, so that's kind of I went there. What about look for Bob? I had somebody else though. Oh man.

[27:05] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Or Bob did you have tugger for Bob? I had bus for Jones. I think Bob's buying his way. Oh my god damn, that's crazy. I have tugger somewhere else. I have don't worry tuggers over 10 on these. There's no right answer. Actually, this is and so this would be your fan base I'm sure if there's a cat outsiders overlap definitely is I'm curious where they will be placing these and we'll be sharing for that on social media too. What about Beverly and I only have this one because of what if you the person the melody played on tour, yeah, that's what I have which was yeah, it's hands about right. Hey, that's what I know cherry.

[27:52] Mike Abrams: Victoria.

[27:54] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Victoria is good. I thought Victoria or Bombay arena. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I see that I see that. All right soda pop one of the what's freaking name one of the cart we Oh Mungo Jerry.

[28:08] Mike Abrams: Jerry.

[28:13] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Okay, I can see that I was debating Mungo Jerry and Tugger.

[28:16] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah, that makes sense to Tugger makes sense for soda pop. What about Daryl Daryl makes sense for me for monk strap? I feel like Mugga strap was a mug a shrapnel do so kind of all around me. Yeah. Yeah, those are the two I was thinking there. We did Dallas. What about Johnny K this one? I think was the hardest.

[28:35] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Silbob.

[28:37] Mike Abrams: Silbob's good. I I went skimble shanks just a little things carrying and yeah in kind of doing stuff and I also like I could see so so up shanking somebody if you needed to or I mean and then Ponyboy.

[28:55] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Him I don't know. What would you put a pony boy?

[28:58] Mike Abrams: I put tumble Brutus because tumble Bruce's like three words is tough, but touchy Wow and I thought that kind of fit pretty well for yeah, absolutely. I'm amazed by your by your pics I'm so impressed how many 200 plus episodes of God content so I can test these cats and basically any how many times have you seen cats?

[29:20] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Not as much as people think so a lot less live than people realize sure. I've seen it probably well, I saw the most recent ballroom the pack. All right, so I'm which is coming to another space, right? Fingers crossed everything is just rumor mail right now. They put out some like press thing though they did social media again, okay, and the their social media they said they claim is just to continue the fandom. That's but it's it's money into that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's just so it's just a when I think but nothing official yet, but hopefully that does come back. I saw that three times. I saw the 2016 revival twice. Cool. I saw the US tour twice and then I have tickets to go to a few regional and international productions coming up but I think that's actually all I've seen live at the moment.

[30:10] Mike Abrams: Cool. You didn't see the the that non equity national tour couple years ago. I did that when I saw this. Okay, cool. Yeah, I ended up seeing them in DC and then oh cool. I filmed my hundredth episode with them.

[30:27] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Oh you did this podcast?

[30:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah, did you talk to one down there? Well, I talked to a bunch of them so I'll well after after we hang up I'll share with you all the okay stuff from that but yeah, I had a couple I had a couple friends on that one.

[30:39] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yeah, yeah a great group and they did three or four years too cuz yeah, basically the minute they came back from kovat they did they did a bunch but yep, I was there in DC in January of 22.

[30:53] Mike Abrams: 23.

[30:56] Victor Carrillo Tracey: 23 I saw them open in Rochester.

[30:56] Mike Abrams: Okay. Yeah. Yeah super fun. Yeah, let's do some catch-rapid-fire here to close us out so you've already answered this question if you could play any character, who would you want to play?

[31:04] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yeah.

[31:06] Mike Abrams: Who are your favorite and least favorite cats personality wise like which one would you enjoy to hang out with?

[31:09] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Um, I think I would enjoy to hang out with Rumpelteaser I would like to hang out with Jenny any dots.

[31:21] Mike Abrams: Okay, and I would like to hang out with who else I guess who would bug you I think who would bug me is Gus the theater cat.

[31:33] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Gus don't man story. I don't want it. It's just it's a long part of the show, man. And it's like, okay, if I were to just hang out with him, I think I just would get annoyed by the pace.

[31:50] Mike Abrams: What's your favorite song in the show my favorite song in the show in cats?

[31:56] Victor Carrillo Tracey: I mean it's not a song. I guess I really enjoy the it's not a sung song, but I enjoy the alter the fight the altercation between oh, yeah I mean cavity comes out and is like, you know has the two cables at the end. I think that's a really great part of show.

[32:14] Mike Abrams: Okay, I I enjoy that musical interlude. I guess. Yeah. Do you have a favorite song in the outsiders? Uh, I like I'm far away from Tulsa, I think it's a beautifully beautifully written song.

[32:30] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Yeah, if we were in Malik.

[32:36] Mike Abrams: Okay, and then is monkey strap a greaser or soch. I think monk strap is a greaser, okay. Yeah there. Are they all are they all greasers? No mix. Maybe there's and I think there's a mix I think there's a mix. Maybe there's a mix. Yeah, okay.

[32:48] Victor Carrillo Tracey: And then this whole show is kind of built around the premise that I don't think Grizzabelle is the right Joker choice so I want to know right you Victor. Do you think Grizzabelle is the right Joker choice? And if not, who are you picking?

[33:01] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Um no, okay, who are you picking I am taking cheese I am picking Victoria.

[33:15] Mike Abrams: Victoria, okay give me give me the rationale. I'm not gonna argue with you because it's not I'm for this answer. I don't know in my memory of the show. Um, I think I don't know. I just I she she presents herself very well throughout the show and it's very I don't know elegant and and I don't know I have great memories of Victoria the cat that's the reason.

[33:47] Mike Abrams: Awesome. I I mean again anytime. It's not Grizzabelle. I don't usually argue too much with the answer so I will I will mark you down as a Victoria. Why why is it? Why is it not for you?

[33:56] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Why is it not Grizzabelle for you? Originally, it was a joke because I saw Leona Lewis and I thought it was the x-factor on drugs so I wanted to send her mystopheles together but I think like if you like break it down my there's a lot of younger Grizzabella's now especially with regionals and yeah words and I it to me it's like depends on your definition of the Heaviside Lair but my argument is is if you're gonna welcome her back and you give her this whole redemption arc that's like the the whole part of the story why not let her spend a year with her family? Like why can't she go next year? Like I want her to spend one more year go to some birthday parties like she got welcomed back and she can go next year send Gus this year.

He's about to die anyways, you're bored of them. You're like you're done with them. You want him out of there? So just like let's say him let him go now so just like Grizzabelle spend some time with the family and then she can go next year.

[34:47] Mike Abrams: Wow fantastic. I admire your your how your fandom for cats is incredible. I'm slowly trying to convince a theater to let me just send somebody else up one night. That's my goal or in your case jump off the ledge. Yes. Exactly. I just call Isabella's climbing this is just call Andrew Lloyd Webber. I'm sure I'm sure he'd let you do it. I feel like he's here in New York right now I saw he's doing all the Phantom stuff. Yeah, I just gotta go try to catch him on the street. Exactly hey I fundamentally disagree with one of your most successful shows ever. There you go. Absolutely. Let's see how that way.

[35:24] Victor Carrillo Tracey: This has been so fun, how can people stay in touch with you on social media and in general?

[35:29] Victor Carrillo Tracey: You can follow me at Victor see Tracy on Instagram. I'm kind of not the tick-tock guy yet, but Instagram is the main way I communicate with the world and keep people up to date. So at Victor see Tracy.

[35:49] Mike Abrams: Awesome. We'll link that we'll link how to get tickets for everything for the outsiders as well absolutely appreciate you being on and hopefully you get your target moment in the future.

[36:00] Victor Carrillo Tracey: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. This is so fun. Thank you.

[36:01] Mike Abrams: And thanks everyone for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died the podcast breakdown cast our street to follow along you can subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify or this podcast follow us on social media at The Wrong Cat Died or check out our website rocket.com.