This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat sasophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. Unfortunately, CATS, the Jellicle Ball is closing way too early and it deserves a much longer life. But I'm thrilled to capture this experience while she's still performing the show. She's currently Demeter in the Jellicle Ball. So welcome, Bebe Nicole Simpson. Thank you for joining me.

[0:34] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Thank you, Mike. Thank you so much. I'm glad you finally got me. It's been what, like, maybe three years of trying to speak to you? So bad.

[0:46] Mike Abrams: I loved when at the opening night, the first thing you did when you came up to me is like, I owe you an answer. And it was because like we've gone back and forth on trying to figure this out from even the downtown run. And I was like, it's okay, we'll make it happen. Thank you for your patience and your tenacity.

[1:06] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yes, I appreciate it. We are here. Okay, I want to start, I always love to start, especially for the Jellicle Ball group, your CATS introduction. So you obviously did the PAC downtown, but like, when was the first time you saw CATS in general? Like you are a theater person, you've got a ton of theater credit. So was it early in your theater life?

[1:24] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Oh, I am a theater person. However, I am like, I'm the worst theater person there is. This is hard as hell to get me on this podcast. I also like, I went to a high school that was, we were the first graduating class. We were the first class, Brandon, we were the first class to be there all four years. And so there was nothing established. A theater department wasn't even established until my junior year. So like, not to say that I couldn't have gotten introduced to musical theater then, but I just, I wasn't, I was not a theater kid in that sense. I wasn't introduced to way late. So with CATS, I wasn't introduced until auditioning. I actually had no idea. I was blind as a kitten coming into CATS.

So all of my research has been done, and I'm kind of that person, anyone, once I get a role, I just dive into the background that really fuels me to dive into history. So of both worlds, of both ballroom and CATS, I was brand wide. And so it was pretty exciting to learn, you know what I mean? Exciting coming from that perspective of like novelty.

[2:36] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So this is, I was going to, I thought we'd get into this later, but we're going to dive into this part right now then, because the Demeter story in CATS and like the non-Jellicle Ball CATS is kind of dark. And it's like one of the few things that everyone is like a hundred percent set on, and it's not the same in the Jellicle Ball. So like, when you were doing this like research into the audition process and what this looks like, what did you uncover about Demeter?

[3:05] Bebe Nicole Simpson: So I, okay. Especially when I didn't know that we weren't going to be humans, right? This was my audition. I was in Kenya on a trip with my best friend, and I was doing all the research I could on that Wi-Fi, whatever various Wi-Fi I could catch at the time. And what I did uncover was that she was like skittish, that some people have the background of her having a, you know, having a hard time with Macavity. I don't know what they have. You can say it's an abusive relationship. That's the one thing that everyone agrees on in CATS. And that's so strange to me in its own world. That's one of the few things that everyone believes, but that's, you all play it so differently.

[4:06] Mike Abrams: We really do. And there's, you know, there's different ways to interpret how somebody would come to saying all the things that we say about Macavity. So it makes sense that like the only things that we know about Macavity is what we sing about it. You know what I mean? Or her in our case. And in the context of CATS, it would make sense because also, yeah, Macavity is a completely different character. So it makes sense that we would have a completely different relationship to Macavity being a house mother. So now my perspective goes from like, speaking on Macavity being a master criminal, you know, Bomb Bell Arena has the lines about the fur being matted, you know, like all of the negative things that we say.

It then shifts from it being our perspective to being the world's perspective onto our character. Onto the character of Macavity. So that's kind of how we had to switch it up. I then go from classically being like afraid and disgusted when I sing about Macavity to amused about how the world perceives my mother. Like the battlement of Scotland Yards, that's amusing. The cops can't catch her. They're baffled by what it is that she can do. Yeah. So it was an adjustment, but kind of an easy one to make because they had such a clear view of Macavity and all of the like, that's the thing about the characters too. Like my character and Bomb Bell Arena's character, the only time we get mentioned is in the beginning, right?

The naming of cats. So like the cats that have a song about them, for the audience to understand more of who they are, is they have such an advantage, right? As far as context clues of who their character is. And with us, and with me, I could just make it up, but all the lore is coming out, right? Like Monkey's Trap and I, Dudney, just found out that we just found out that there was supposed to be like a love thing between them. I had no idea. No idea. I should have replied to you. I replied to Dudney when he posted that because there's like, it's not played in every production. And a lot of the lore comes from that there's belief that Monkey's Trap, Macavity, and Tugger are brothers. And so there's a little bit of that of like, if the brother treated you poorly, there's some protection there.

And then there's also a lot of staging together where they're dancing together near each other. So a lot of the like relationship lore comes purely from the two dancing side by side in the other productions. But that one's not played consistently.

[7:11] Mike Abrams: Gotcha, gotcha. Well, the Tugger, Macavity, and Monkey's Trap, like relationship is played in our show as well. We kind of, in our background, we are all, they are all, they come from the same house. They were all under Old Deuteronomy, and then went to House of Glamour. And Grizabella and Macavity, in particular, were sisters in the House of Glamour. Well, sisters, but yeah.

[7:44] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Well, no, no, no, no. I think it was, it's Grizabella that becomes the mother of the house, and that they all break off from being Old Deuteronomies. Right, that's what it is. That's what it is. They weren't under the House of Glamour. Jenny Annie Dots had been in that iteration, was at House of Glamour. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they all decide, like siblings in different ways. Yeah, it's so fun too, because like, the lore of Cats is what, the reason that this podcast even kind of started, it was when I started digging into the lore, after my joke of Grizabella being the wrong choice, there was so much lore that I was like, wait, there is way, way too much to dig into. And then as you uncover it, and you talk to different people doing different productions, it's not consistent.

And that's kind of the beauty of the show, is that it doesn't have to be. But it also makes for some of like the really funny lore possibilities. Because if you assume this thing and this thing, but not this thing, then like that makes some weird dynamics, just depending on how you play it. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, you know, to the audience in a lot of those cases. But it's for as a performer, it's got to make it more fun. And I think the reason the Joker balls work so well, and the reason it was so like widely raved about is, is the story was so much clearer, because you had those relationships a little bit clearer. You had the, why they're together a little bit clearer, it was a lot more of a through line than you have.

Now, I, I'm a defender that I think there is a through line in the Cats, if you're knowledgeable of it, but it's really hard to catch the first time you watch it. Right. And I don't think that's the case in the Joker ball. I think you right away know what you're watching the Joker ball.

[9:29] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Thank you. At least you want to like ask questions to you and how, how when you first watched it, like did it knowing all the lore and being so acquainted with all the lore, like, what were the things that took you by surprise?

[9:42] Bebe Nicole Simpson: The gel? So yeah, I mean, so I went to the second performance of the pack. And I sat at the very front table at the end of the runway. And I had no idea what we were walking into, because at that point I had done an episode with Bill and Jalen and, and Will and William. And I had, but it was like 25 minutes. Like it was a very brief, that's all the time they had before the show started. And so they kind of teased it, but conceptually, it's really hard to grasp as a Cats, like knowledgeable Cats person. And there's a lot of like Cats purists that kind of, I think struggle when they come, but I'm always like, you need to go because I think if you're a Cats purist, you're still going to love it.

And when I sat down, I was amazed because the overture hits right away and the music's the same, but with like some fun tweaks and the only stuff that's like changed besides the ballroom elements, which are what to me makes the story clearer, is there some relationship personality differences and they're not vast, but a few smaller things. And that was it. And I'm sitting there going like, this is still at its core Cats. So I'm like, if you love Cats, you should love this. There's no reason you shouldn't love this. Unless I guess the only thing I'll defend is if you're like a diehard choreography, Julian Lynn choreography person, like you're not getting that. You're getting elements of it, which Amari and Arturo brought in pieces really well into that, but like it's different.

It's a different experience, but it's still Cats. And so like I send everybody, I send everyone who's a Cats lover. I'm like, you're going to love it. You're going to mouth the words, you're going to know all the lyrics. And if you're a Cats hater, it makes it so much clearer because you take the costumes away, you take some of the weird storyline away. I just think it was, it was something for everybody. And so I was like, my like jaw was on the floor the first time I saw it. And I walked out just so thrilled that like it came together in such a beautiful way and answer a lot of questions. The only thing I did say is I went to, I saw Jalen right after that first performance I saw, and it makes my argument against Grizabella much harder because that story tells that reason much more because it's the Heaviside Lair is not death, which is what it, I believe it is in the other productions. It doesn't feel like death in the ball. And so that's, that was my only kind of gripe is I was like, this, this makes my, my entire show premise a little bit harder.

[12:03] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Oh my gosh. Yes. Also, because in that production, when she went up the ladder, she opened the door and it was like a honking car. It was like, it was very clear that she was going to the outside and not necessarily to in this iteration, in the Bravo iteration, you know, you got the smoke coming down, the fog coming down from the sky. It does kind of feel a bit more like that. It feels more like it, but it still doesn't feel like, yeah, because she comes back out in her, in the, like it's renewal gown. And like, it feels more like she's being brought back to the ball versus the other one. It's like you sing memory and they look like they're about to die. And then it's like, all right, we're going to send you off to the, to the sky.

[12:47] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yes. Yeah. That's, that's the biggest piece that I said, but I've, I've been such a fan and I, like, again, we're pushing for the cast album and I know you just recorded the, the archival footage. So hopefully there's ways to get this out there for more people.

[13:02] Mike Abrams: I really hope so too. I really hope so too. Just for that piece where I feel alone. Yeah.

[13:08] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I know. Um, I want to go back to the beginning of like the pack kind of piece and then flipping it to Broadway. So obviously you were in the pack run and you had this massive success off Broadway, but then you kind of had to change some elements and make some tweaks to, to fit a new house and have a Broadway, um, stage. So what was that transition like going from this like built theater almost, it felt like for this, this performance to a Broadway house that has to kind of adjust a little bit?

[13:31] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yeah, totally. I, I honestly, I spent the first week of our previews so worried and like going out and trying to collect as many opinions from the folks as possible because it became so clear to me how big of a, an obstacle the stage was, um, in the Broadhurst. Um, and even just for Bill, like when we would talk later, he was like, yeah, this was, this was a puzzle for us to figure out how far out we could bring the runway. Yee, the run line, it couldn't be shorter. Every ball has a runway, like it's a characteristic of this phase. Um, but the PAC, like there was no bad seat in the house, none. Every place that you sat, you can cue in onto what's happening. There was a lot to catch, but like, even if you were sitting in the back, because it's like the, it's so raked, you could, everybody in the back could see like, um, the, the balconies.

Yeah, there's just so much access to the stage and stage was huge, but it was like 500 seats less. Yeah. Um, so, um, I think in this phase, you know, I'm used to, I'm used to stage where you have to play out to the back of the house. Um, and I've done, you know, plenty of outdoor theater, plenty of spaces where, you know, as a stage actor, you learn that you have to, um, connect with those in the very back where I think it was an adjustment for us all from the PAC to this phase. Like there was things that you could play a lot smaller that everybody still have access to, um, because of the way that we were able to be in, but, uh, we all had to adjust out. There was times where like, I realized that whatever little bits that I had, I had to formulate them in a way that everybody had access to them because otherwise they wouldn't hit, you know, like it was really, it was really the staging of it for me that was the hardest to figure out.

[16:02] Mike Abrams: Well, let me ask you about that because I've sat now, I mean, I've been fortunate to be able to go a couple of times. Um, you know, a lot of people have not, you know, people there's well, to be fair, there's like somebody like Jordan, who was just on the podcast, who's been over 50 times and then most people get to see it once, you know? And so there's having sat in various places across the theater, some by honestly just by chance in a lot of cases, I feel like this production, you have a, almost a slightly different experience depending on where you are because of who you get to interact with. And I think that like, to your point, you usually play out to the back of the, you know, the orchestra or the mass or whatever, because you're always facing out there.

But like I sat behind you, you were, you were out the, for this performance, but I sat behind where, where you stand on the, on the table at the beginning of the cavity. Like I sat right behind, I was right behind those seats. And so there's a lot of moments where it's Tugger and Skimbleshanks and, um, Cavity and you and that are right there in that. And so like, I feel like I got more of a, of a experience with you all. I couldn't see junior where I was sitting. So it's like, that was the part I lost. Um, but there's other times where I've been in other spots where like all of a sudden Munkus Trap is in front of me or Sillabub is over here. So I do feel like you have, you have a, almost a different experience being able to play some of those smaller moments.

Like I told Emma, Emma, I don't know what she said, but she had her whole stage section cracking up in the second act with some comments that like I could barely hear. So that group got to hear, but there's nobody in the orchestra that heard that at all. So you get a little bit of those moments differently.

[17:37] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yeah, it's true. It's true. There is different. Yes. And, and I think we're close to, I really love the fact that we have those bleachers there. I think that that is kind of what keeps the closeness that was there at the PAC automatically. Um, and then you have the banquets. I always like, it's always a good time if the people that I'm sitting next to on the banquets next to the house in the cavity are, are good and interactive and happy to be there. And there's times where they're not, which affects the things, but when they are, it's like, oh, we key all night. Now those, and the two people were sitting right next to the stage. Um, and so many audience members asked like, oh, were those, oh, it takes them a minute to, to realize that those aren't actors and that they're actually paid audience.

Um, no, and I couldn't get those seats anytime I looked, I mean, they sold very fast. Um, you can get the stage seats, but even the, the table seats kind of by you, those are hard to get. Um, they were really hard to get for a long time. You could find the ones kind of where I sat, which was like, I was the far end kind of the, I don't even think it's, it's kind of partial view. It might be even Mark partial view. Uh, but it's, it's the farthest you can get on that side behind you. So that was kind of like when the minute, um, that you're, you'd get on the table. I'm like, you're literally right in front of me. Like that was where I was for this one.

[19:17] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Oh, that's fun. That's so fun. Just shaking my ass, but yeah, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died.

[19:33] Mike Abrams: I'd love to hear a little bit about the, like, you know, not knowing as much about ballroom, like coming from the theater side, how you learned about it. I mean, obviously you had legends and icons and these like unbelievable people to teach you, but how did you kind of embrace and learn that piece of it to embody the characters in that part that you would, you would need to be able to perform as.

[19:56] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I am a frequent and avid student of YouTube Academy. Um, I am on YouTube. Thank God for that resource. Honestly. Um, it has replaced libraries in many of the sense that I, I dived into as much research as I can find concerning that I, um, of course, watch Paris is Burning. I've not ever a documentary. I could, um, you have people like Salier who plays Jenny Ernst, who's really good at like sharing hook resources and all of that. Um, and, uh, especially going into the Broadway run, I did take classes within, along with him, Omari's classes and such, but like looking up, not only the history of ballroom, but like the physical, the physical vocabulary of the game was super necessary for me because I was very nervous about it.

Um, Naomi, Naomi Maldonado, who is my dear friend now, Muppa, um, and Icon in the ballroom scene, and McCavity in this production, we get to room together. Um, me, her, Garnett, who plays Von Ballerina and Nora, who plays Les Verdones. We all share a room. We call it our auntie room. And like, I do feel like in this iteration, I've gotten to dive into and gotten a lot of like ballroom lore from her. Right. But it's really imperative for me in order to have kind of a rich sense of self to accumulate as much background information as possible. So I'm like, I've, there was a series on YouTube, done by Vice, called My House, I believe. Oh, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong when they find it. Um, and it was basically like a reality TV show, but they did, um, following certain ballroom houses.

Um, and, and people like individuals in the ballroom scene. Um, and so I've watched that, like, it's just, it's about watching and absorbing for me. Um, the relationships, just the real people is really important to me. Yeah.

[22:35] Mike Abrams: Have you gone to your first ball? Have you been recruited for houses? Like, okay.

[22:39] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I went to the ball, to a ball the first time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that is a thing. I'm a bit, I'm a bit on the, you know, older side. So I'm, I'm, I'm not out as late as I used to be. But, um, the first iteration at the PAC is when I went to my first ball. Um, and I was guided by Zedney, brother Zedney. Um, and I think also, like, it was a partnership with the PR, um, at the PAC with the ball. And so it was kind of like cat themed. There was another one this year, but I didn't get to go. Um, and Omari recruited me, you know, Omari and Arcero both were trying to like, hype me up, especially at that time. They're like, oh, you know, you could walk face, you could some, some, I'm like, I, I, I just could never, not never, but I would be so, so nervous. I have to, like, I'm one of those people who has to, I'm a perfectionist. So I feel like I have to be really good before I embarrass myself at a ball by walking.

[24:06] Mike Abrams: I love that you talked about the, the not being as late. Cause I did see all the press for this, the one from this one. And I remember it was, I couldn't go anyways, but I remember seeing it. It starts at, it starts at 10 or 11. Like, I was like, oh, that's the starting time. Like, oh, this is different, different life here. This is a different world than I've lived in, but it looks so fun every time. Like that's the, that's the part that I, I've, I've always said about the show and just in general is there's so much joy, um, with like the, the feistiness and like the fun and the competitiveness and like the spirit of it all, but also still so much, like just pure happiness and joy that you get from, from the community that that's coming together.

[25:00] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yes. They're in their element that are in their element that are feeling safe, not necessarily from each other. Cause there's still like cattiness. There's still, it's all based on judgment, which can be like harsh and like embarrassing, but like safe in the sense of nobody's worried about getting killed and nobody's worried about like getting, being ashamed for their identity, you know?

[25:00] Mike Abrams: Yeah. They're, they're who they are and in a place where that's accepted, but in a competition style, like we're still, we still want to beat you. We want to like, we want to win these trophies and everything, which I think is, is fun. I, I related it a little bit to, um, I posted about the WNBA and it's like, I feel like that has some like similarities in the sense where it's like, they're competing and they're like getting after each other a little bit and there's a lot of kind of trash talking, but then they're at their all-star weekend and it's like, they're all hanging out and having fun. And like, cause they're part of like a very small group together that gets to do this.

[25:36] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Definitely. And when you get groups of, again, there's always going to be dissension or whatever, but it's just different than being out in the world. Um, and I'm exposed to that kind of. It's family. That's a, that's a part of cats. That's like, so true is that there's this, like, the Jellicles are a family, it feels, and they might have some like, yeah, we don't really get along today, but like, you've got that relative that might be bugging me a little bit, but they're still your relative, you know, that's the, that's the way I look at it. But I wanted to hear from a little bit for you about, since you do get to walk a couple categories, do you have a favorite category you get to walk?

[26:16] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Oh, you know what? Shake that ass is fun, but I, I do love walking body because I love the costume and I only get to wear it for like a short period of time. And I also love it now too, because I was, I was very afraid of doing it the first time, you know, um, many, I think people just in this world and in our generations, um, millennials, Gen Z, like, you know, the people who kind of blossomed in the era of the internet, I think, um, something that is very common and unfortunately almost embraced in our, you know, time is like body dysmorphia is, you know, a harshness, a criticism towards ourselves in our appearances. Um, so I definitely at that, you know, and having to, well, first of all, being picked to walk body, right.

We, they looked at the people who they hired and they were like, okay, what categories can we put them in? And the fact that they put me in body, I kind of was like, oh, oh, okay. Okay. Um, women's body, I'm walking. Um, and Queen Jean was Queen Jean with that costume in particular, just like tailored it to my comfort level, you know, drew the bikini where exactly, where I felt most confident in my body. Um, and, you know, it's again, a brief moment, but I just, I love that costume. And I also never get to see it. I've only seen it once actually in person. Cause I don't, I wear it. Um, so I don't know what it looks like from a fire on me and on my body. I don't, I don't actually have much footage from it, but the one time that I did see it, which was during tech and I had to wear it, we were texting it.

Um, I got to snap a little picture, but it just, it definitely reminds me of how far I've come as far as how I perceive myself. And it also helps that like in ballroom femininity in particular is so, um, embraced, uh, in a way that really kind of shifted my perspective of things. Um, like Leone, I remember telling her just how self-conscious I am about my cellulite, right? Cellulite, something that over 90% of women just in the world have. So not only is it normal, but it's abnormal not to have it, right? It's abnormal not to have it, but we've all been conditioned to believe that it's something that is undesirable. And, you know, if the world didn't feel the way they did about cellulite, I wouldn't care about it.

But when Leone, she was like, when I first thought cellulite, um, I thought it was cut. And I was like, you know what? Cause she's like, it's, it's, it's intrinsically tied to femininity. Um, and I was like, you know, what? My cellulite is feminine. It is cut. Let me just like, yeah, let me embrace it. Let me not be as self-conscious. It really is. It really is. And for somebody who said dysmorphia about it and about, you know, we are, again, we're conditioned to kind of be displeased with what it is that God has given us. I embrace that. That really, that she doesn't know how much that did for me.

[30:15] Mike Abrams: That's incredible. It's, it's such a, probably a small moment that she maybe even doesn't remember, but has such a profound impact on just the, again, the mindset shift of like, yeah, this is, this can be celebrated, um, versus the, you know, like you said, there's a lot of the social media and conditioning of, of what is, what is right. And I love that the world is getting a little bit better at that. And honestly, the, you know, the entire, uh, show, like your show does a lot for that too. Like the bus for Jones number in the other cats is kind of more about like being gluttonous and rich and posh and everything. And this is much more about accepting, uh, bus for Jones for who they are and the like walking body and, you know, having, having that, that moment. Um, so I love the first time the, the PHAT fat came out. I was like, ah, this is so great. I was like, this is great.

[31:09] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Oh, so smart. So smart. So smart. Yes. And I think ballroom in general has been monumental for that reason. Like people come into those communities, um, and, and get a different view of themselves. Yeah. Do you have any other favorite moments from the show?

[31:28] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I just love my interactions. Like the, the evolution of our relationships, like we are creating our own lore, you know? Like people, when people say, we found that last week, me and, and Dudney who plays monkey strap found out last week about the whole Demeter and monkey strap love. Um, but in our iteration, like monkey strap and Jenny and he died, have a, they like, you know, monkey strap is the one who sings her song, right? Is the one who's like, I have somebody in mind. This is who I want. This is my vote to go do the heavy side layer. And so when he talks about sitting and sitting at one point, like how, um, like, you know, backs his ass up into monkey strap. Um, and I get to catch that, like, and I've built this like infatuation with Victoria at the park.

Um, Jalen had come up to me and Shereen, who would play Jolly Lorem at the time, um, and told us that we should have, like, we were in need for a lesbian storyline and that he wants us to play that. And so we did. And that was, you know, it was just little moments, probably nobody caught, but, um, little moments that we built in. And then when, well, you all are sitting together though, right? Like a lot of the show you're together at the Broadhurst, like you're sitting with Macavity, like side by side most of the time.

[33:08] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Oh, oh, that's, um, Bombaylorina, but we're Shereen and Jolly Lorem. We do the trio together, me, Bombaylorina, and Jolly Lorem, um, singing Jenny Annie Dots. Um, and there's little moments with Jolly Lorem, but in this iteration, it's played by our lovely Bryson, who is not a woman. Um, and so I was kind of like adamant about continuing the lesbian storyline, the sapphic storyline. And, um, I guess, uh, Victoria and et cetera, who was originated by, uh, Kaya in our production, um, who was a beautiful femme queen. They had kind of also adopted the sapphic storyline, but then, you know, Kaya has, you know, replaced Leonia. She's been gone, um, has been standing in for her. And so, but I also was adamant about continuing that.

So I've been on Victoria's. And so they, we've all created this kind of like, um, spiderweb sapphic relationship, um, where Victoria is currently dating when, when, when et cetera is played by, uh, Kaya. Um, they play that they are currently girlfriends, but Victoria has history with Rumpleteazer, that's her ex. Um, and I'm looking at Victoria now to try and sort of, so I say I'm her future. Um, but there's all these moments that we are built in where we are looking at each other, where we, like, we even were the archival. This is T, but we, um, cause now Rum Tum Tugger and, uh, Magical Miss Missopolis don't always right. Um, and when they don't Victoria and I sometimes sneak in a kiss, uh, right before we get, um, part ways for when Old Deuteronomy is about to, right after, um, Magical Miss Missopolis in that moment. So if you catch it, you catch it, but we definitely snuck it into the archives yesterday.

[35:32] Mike Abrams: I have not seen that. I, I did talk to Silk and Sydney about, because the, like the number one fan fiction theory in the Cats universe is the Tugger Missopolis relationship. And so it is like, it's what most, a lot of the arts about it. It's like, so when they, the first time that I saw it, they didn't, um, I think it was the first time they actually kissed on stage was that second performance. And I was like, Oh, thank God they like really leaned into this, this like theory. And then it's continued. And then actually the first, I went to the first preview and they didn't do it. And I, I told Sydney on the, on the gold carpet, I'm like, are you all? And it was purely, I think he said there was some like preview like sickness and stuff.

And I was like, okay, good. You're bringing it back. So that's, that's interesting. I love the lure that you get to add because it doesn't change the show, but it allows you all to have moments that when people catch people catch. And that's, I think the beauty of Cats is that depending on where you're sitting or who you're with, there's like, there's those pieces that you can kind of see that add to it. And I think that's so fun. I love that we got to add those because I hadn't caught a couple of these. I like these, like the, it makes the, like, I'll take the Victoria rumple teaser, um, piece when, like, right before the kind of catwalk part that happens at the beginning, rumple teaser tries to go under and Victoria grabs her by the hood and pulls her back out.

And I'm like, that's, that's a very funny, like now X, that's my X moment. Like get back in line. Like, like it all fits when, you know, those things. And then the, when they go against each other for tag team performance, it's like, Oh, there is just extra beef. We re they really have to beat each other. Like the stakes are a little bit juicier. Um, I love all the bits a bit, but the relationships are really, and finding new ways to connect to cast members and new things to find, like discovery is the fuel of a long run, right. Of doing things over and over again. Um, yeah. As far as the stage actor in particular. And so I really try and lean into it.

[37:36] Bebe Nicole Simpson: It's so true. And I think there are the parts like that, that are, I would, I want to, I don't wanna call them minor. Cause like they're, they're these like character developing parts, but they're not choreography or lyrics or words. They're story.

[37:47] Mike Abrams: But I do know that you've, you've like added some pieces. Like I, did you always, like you told me on the gold carpet that you added the devil wears Prada line.

[37:56] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yes.

[37:57] Mike Abrams: Was that like, so how much freedom do you have to add that type of stuff? Like in your small moments? Cause I think that line is hilarious. And it's, it's so funny because there's times like after you told me, I didn't hear it the first time. Then I heard it clearly the second time, the third time I couldn't hear it because the audience was still laughing from the other parts. And so like that line doesn't get even caught. And then I heard it really clearly the last time and it got a really good laugh. So it's like the moments kind of depend on the audience too.

[38:22] Bebe Nicole Simpson: They absolutely depend on the audience. It's all about formula. I mean, comedy is all about formula, right? And so I think at the PAC there was, well, okay. You asked how much freedom that I have. I think I'm lucky because I get a good amount of freedom. There's just spots that I have found to fill in. And they become kind of like, I've made a formula out of them. So like in, in the PAC, when I used to get caught by old Deuteronomy with a flashlight, I actually had a wire in my hands, a plug, like that it was assumed that I pulled the plug to start the Macavity beat, right? And then I would say Macavity, but then I would immediately go back Sage. And in this iteration, I have some stolen bags, right?

So we see the motif of the, the shiny garbage bags that are full of stolen goods. And I'm taking a piece of it out to see what it is. And then I get caught by old Deuteronomy, but then I have the full stairs to get down. And I didn't realize, but like, well, I, when I discovered that he was following me down with a light and that that light was still on me, but I was going down this long staircase and then going all the way off stage. I was like, I gotta fill in this moment. This is so awkward. So I started saying, what I will consistently say is I got something for that ass or we got something for that ass. Like we have something in store for you. But when I discovered maybe like a month in was like, the judges, I like, depending on how excited the audience and how recognizable they are to me, but also mostly to the audience, right?

I will take inspiration from who they are and try and infuse a lie. They come up with a lie. And now it's become like, it's become a group activity. Like it's something that I've, that if I can't come up with something on my own, I will go to my cast members and they like, we're all brainstorming together. They've all been my soundboard for several moments.

[40:58] Mike Abrams: What's been your favorite so far?

[41:02] Bebe Nicole Simpson: My favorite? Well, I don't know if it's my favorite, but it's definitely the one that hit the hardest, of course, just had the perfect, it had the perfect storm. It had the perfect formula, right? It was a very recognizable person, Cynthia Erivo, right? Very, very popular. Everybody knows her. She has a very irrelevant role that she just, you know, right? So another part that I've now improvised is during the intro of Macavity, right? The that's long anyways, right? Before at the PAC, I was filling it in by discovering my bags, but I already do that in this iteration. So in this iterate, then Jaylen had the bright idea of having a remote and me futzing with the remote to try and turn on the monitors, which would then say House of Macavity to suggest that we have infiltrated the system and are now getting started with labels our way.

That was a whole thing for me to just come up with. And I will sometimes improvise in that moment, right? I'll always try and turn the power on. But this day when Cynthia Erivo was there, I was turning it on. Power on! And I cast it out and then the stage management turned the screen on at the perfect time and the crowd went wild for that. So that was probably that was the one that hit the hardest. So it's probably that's my favorite. Yeah.

[43:02] Mike Abrams: I mean, it's yeah, it's perfect. I do love that moment because it's like, the first time I saw it, I was like, well, I assumed it was I knew that because I know the show well enough that I knew Macavity was coming. But I didn't know at that point what was going on all the screens. And so I kind of love that like, yeah, filler moment to have you have the opportunity there and you get to have some fun there.

[43:22] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yes, yes. I get to have fun. That was a formula to find out though. And I'm still fussing with it. That's one that I still don't always get right as far as what to say, how to say it, when to say it, when people were here, how to show the ring, pressing the buttons. It's all such a craft doing things in theater, on stage for everyone to be able to see and experience.

[43:47] Mike Abrams: You're doing that on a table too. So like you're on a very small table standing there. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died.

[43:57] Mike Abrams: Okay. Let's do some quick rapid fire here to round this out. So if you could play any cat one night, it doesn't matter what role, sing it, dance it, it doesn't matter. Who would you want to perform as?

[44:05] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Maybe Ramtam Tug.

[44:09] Mike Abrams: Tugger. Okay. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats from a personality standpoint? Which one would you, Bebe, like to hang out with and which one would bug you?

[44:15] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I would like to hang out with probably Monkey Strap because I feel like he knows all the tea. I feel like he, and I would like to, I just love the chanting and getting to see what he comes up with. But also, yeah, he seems like he knows it all. He's also in the Older Granny. He knows the tea, I bet. And he's not messy about it. So that's fine.

[44:48] Mike Abrams: What about, which one would bug you?

[44:50] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Oh, which one would bug me? Victor, that would bug me the most. I'm honestly thinking, my mind goes to, Emma Sophia has made Cassandra delightfully annoying at times. She is clearly on some coke. She's clearly doing a little, oh, tweaking out just a bit. And so I think that she might be a little bit irritating for me.

[45:26] Mike Abrams: I told her after the opening night, I messaged her because I forgot, the Skimbleshanks summer is becoming a thing and she's getting a lot of recognition for the Skimbleshanks part of the show. But I tell everyone that goes to see it, I'm like, but watch her, Cassandra, because it's so beautifully chaotic and frantic. And she delivers it in such a fun way that I'm like, you're going to love Skimbleshanks, but I think you're going to have your mind blown by just watching her moments around stage on that first act. It is beautiful.

[46:05] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yes, yes. Beautifully chaotic is it. She is tweaking, tweaking votes.

[46:12] Mike Abrams: It's funny because that is my answer from the joke about too, because I'm like, I love watching it, but if I was hanging out with her, I'd be like, oh, chill.

[46:20] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Absolutely not. Just chill.

[46:21] Mike Abrams: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. If you were in one of the houses, which one would you be in? House of Glamour, House of Dots, House of Macavity? Which one would fit your style most?

[46:34] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Would fit my style?

[46:35] Mike Abrams: As you, yeah, not as Demeter. We already know where Demeter is.

[46:37] Bebe Nicole Simpson: You know what I'm saying.

[46:42] Mike Abrams: I know. Could I come up with a different answer other than House of Macavity?

[46:47] Bebe Nicole Simpson: You can be in House of Macavity if that's what you feel would be your house.

[46:51] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I do. I just think that they're the sisterhood, the connection. The sisterhood and daughter-mother relationship is just so strong that I love that. I'm not down for stealing. I can't even steal. I find something that I've accidentally taken outside, like an eyeliner, I'm going back in. I'm paying for it. I'm not good with that. And I'm a bad liar. But I love the relationship. I love the closeness that House of Macavity has in particular.

[47:24] Mike Abrams: You made your Broadway debut in Camelot, right? Is that correct?

[47:27] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I did. I did.

[47:28] Mike Abrams: If you could stick one of the cats in Camelot, who are you putting in there?

[47:33] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I feel like, of course, old Deuteronomy would fit, but Gus would be hilarious in that world. He would just be so out of place. But like, regal, right? Like, opulent. But so great. I just pictured him in the center on the throne himself instead of King Arthur. But yeah, old Deuteronomy, I think, would make a lot of sense there. But also, Bustapher. Bustapher would work the best, I think.

[48:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah. My answer was old Deuteronomy. That was a lot of time.

[48:18] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yeah, old Deuteronomy, same. Yeah, exactly.

[48:19] Mike Abrams: Immediately went to that.

[48:20] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Exactly. Exactly. That would fit. But also, Bustapher is, yeah, English.

[48:26] Mike Abrams: Yeah. My million dollar question. So, I'd argue, at length, I don't think Grizbelle's the right Jellicle choice. I want to know who is you, Bibi, who's your Jellicle choice, and why?

[48:36] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Great. I think I gave you this answer on the red carpet, and I don't think it has changed. McCafferty would be who I would send to the Heaviside Lair. I think the Heaviside Lair is about transformation. I think it's about renewal, restoration, redemption. I think it's about redemption. I mean, especially in our iteration, you get to see – it's funny, because you're like, oh, she comes back, and she's all glamorous. But she comes back in the bows. The bows are a part of our story. And we all take a bow as our character. We don't take a bow as, you know, our – he doesn't say our needs as the afters. So, I think that McCafferty has, of course, a reputation from the outside. And, you know, within Ballroom, she does put everybody in danger by keeping the tags on, by bringing the cops into the space.

And so, there is a sort of redemption by the fact that Old Deuteronomy gets brought back. There's a moment built into our production where they, like, reconcile. They have a hug together, like a, oh, thank God you're back kind of moment for everyone to see. But I think that McCafferty, I would argue, in every production, is in need of, like, redemption.

[50:13] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I think it's so – this is, again, what the beauty – to me, one of the beauties of Cats in general, but then also, like, having such a true reimagining like this. That answer is almost never possible in the other versions. But it's so clear in the Jehovah Cabal that that is a choice. Like, McCafferty has been picked before, but usually for other reasons, not redemption. Like, he's not a redeeming character in Cats. Like, it is a villain, but family villain if you want to play it more wholesome. And I love that this production, because that is, to me, the biggest change between the shows. Obviously, the ballroom elements and, like, the other stuff, but from a storyline and character development to McCafferty storyline is the biggest change.

And I love this version so much more, because it fits, and it's unique, and it just kind of makes it a little bit more wholesome and true and fits, like, the ballroom community more. But it allows kind of this answer to be a little different, because you would never probably say redemption for McCafferty in the other versions.

[51:17] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Right. Maybe not. Maybe not. Or maybe I would, because I feel like the people who are in need of redemption are the ones who are the worst, right? Who are perceived as the worst or who have done the most harm. They're in need of a full transformation.

[51:32] Mike Abrams: True.

[51:33] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yeah, in my sight.

[51:35] Mike Abrams: This has been so fun. How can people stay in touch with you for everything else you're going to do? And we'll obviously link for a couple more weeks left of The Jellicle Ball for anybody that can make it to New York and come.

[51:46] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yes. Well, I'll be here for the rest until August 8th, a week after my birthday. Exactly. We'll see then. True cats.

[51:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[52:01] Bebe Nicole Simpson: But I have an Instagram. It's dee ee ee ee ee. Four e's. Underscore.

[52:10] Mike Abrams: We'll link it, too.

[52:11] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Yeah, thank you. Underscore, Nicole. That's the main way I'm working on my website. I'm also not the best at Instagram, so please, please forgive me.

[52:25] Mike Abrams: But yeah, those are the main ways for now. Yeah, that's the main way.

[52:30] Mike Abrams: Awesome. Well, I am hopeful to be back at least once more, maybe twice more before the end, and I hope everyone who hasn't had a chance to see it who can get themselves to see it goes.

[52:42] Bebe Nicole Simpson: We hope so, too.

[52:42] Mike Abrams: Because it's such a great show, and I really enjoyed your performance.

[52:46] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Well, thank you.

[52:47] Mike Abrams: I loved getting to hear and talk from you. So, thank you for coming on.

[52:50] Bebe Nicole Simpson: Thank you. Thank you again for your tenacity. I'm so glad we finally got to make this happen.

[52:55] Mike Abrams: It finally happened. Oh, thank you.

[52:57] Bebe Nicole Simpson: It happened, and it's coming out. It'll be out for the world.

[53:00] Mike Abrams: Great. Please let me know when you come to the show.

[53:03] Bebe Nicole Simpson: I will. I will. And thanks, everyone, for listening to this episode of The Round Cat Died, the podcast break down the cat's astrophebe. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Amazon Podcasts. Follow us on social media at TheRoundCatDied or check us at TheRoundCatDied.com.