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[0:01] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:16] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host Mike Abrams and today we have another amazing guest. I was beyond thrilled when I found out, it's been over a year now, that Beef & Boards in Indianapolis was going to be doing CATS this year because I grew up a three-minute drive from the theater and I have gone to many productions at Beef & Boards over the years but I have not ever seen CATS there. So our guest today is the director and choreographer for this production and played Bombalurina in a production in New York as well. So welcome Anne Beck and thank you for joining me.

[0:46] Anne Beck: Hi, thanks for having me.

[0:48] Mike Abrams: I was so excited when I found out. I don't know how exactly, but it was like my mom I think told me this is going to be coming, like here's the teaser for the upcoming season and like sent it to me right away but it was so, so long ago that I was like it's October of this upcoming year and I was like let me get when we get closer to it. So I'm glad we can make this work.

[1:10] Anne Beck: Yes, me too. I could talk about CATS all day.

[1:14] Mike Abrams: Well, this is what we're here for. So let's start with your history of CATS. So I know you've been in it and then you've obviously done it and produced it and directed it and done all these different things with it. But when did you first see it?

[1:27] Anne Beck: Oh, I first saw it in New York at the Winter Garden. I couldn't tell you how long it was already running when I saw it but I remember falling in love with it. I was sitting on an aisle seat and a cat literally came over and like nearly sat on my lap up in the balcony. So that always stuck with me that those cats were everywhere.

[1:50] Anne Beck: Completely. Green eyes. They're all over the entire theater. Walking around and doing it.

[1:56] Mike Abrams: How old were you when that happened? Was it young? Were you an adult? Teenager?

[2:01] Anne Beck: I was on tour so I was like I don't want to say what decade. We don't need to go there. But I was definitely on tour and I came back and saw as many shows as I possibly could and that was one of them because I had never seen it live. And I still remember not exactly appreciating a plot because I know that is a big stigma with CATS. So I did definitely appreciate it for all of the dancing. It was on my runner's playlist, that Jellicle Ball. I was determined to be in that show at some point and have an identification with that show at some point in my life. So yeah, it stuck with me.

[2:41] Mike Abrams: So at this point you're working. You're working as a professional in theater and you're seeing it. So you're not like a child.

[2:49] Anne Beck: I think I did not go with my mom and sister. But I'm pretty sure my sister, she always said that she took my sister and I'm pretty sure it was Beef & Boards but it would have been many, many years ago that that is where the only time I think anybody in my family until I saw the revival had seen any form of CATS. And so I love that you, okay, so you saw it, you knew you wanted to do it. How long is it before you get to the Long Island production?

[3:11] Anne Beck: The Long Island production was in 2012 and I gave birth to my beautiful daughter in 2009. And so I was like, we called it, Jacob Brent directed that show and we called it Unitard Ready because I had given birth not too far before that. And so I, yeah, he called me and said they were doing it, thought it'd be a great Bombalurina. And I was like, that is a dream show of mine, my friend. So I had worked with him previously at the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra doing their Yuletide show forever. So Jake and I are dear, dear friends. And so he was like, send in all your stuff. It's a Gateway Playhouse on Long Island. So I sent all my stuff and they are actually, we were reading me for Demeter and Bombalurina and I ended up getting Bomb.

[4:05] Mike Abrams: So I always am interested by that in particular because it is two wildly different characters. And then I've seen swings play both sides of that in the same days. But when you're reading for both, are you trying to convey the Bombalurina or the Demeter of it all? Or are you just trying to show here's my voice, here's my dancing ability?

[4:27] Anne Beck: I think at the time, not knowing a lot of the backstory of the characters, I was like, okay, this one sings a little higher. I mean, they both sing Macavity pretty fiercely. So Demeter has a little bit lower of a deep register when she sings the entry of Grizabella. So no, I just tried to listen and emulate what I thought it should sound like more than anything. Because again, I wasn't as knowledgeable on like the ins and outs of all the characters. I feel like CATS is one of those shows that once you do it, you learn so much more than what is just coming to you across an audience-performer connection.

[5:07] Mike Abrams: So diving into the characters later. When you then get into rehearsal and you've got Mr. Mersafili's Jacob Brent himself telling you, and then you said you had Ken Page as your Old Deuteronomy. You've got the two of them in the room. What is that not only just experience, but also hearing? It's such a meaningful and deep story that's not conveyed to the audience, like you said. But you're learning it from people that had lived it for so long. Was there like an aha or like a, wow, I didn't realize there was this much depth to the story moment in rehearsals?

[5:42] Anne Beck: Constantly, constantly. Ken Page, Papa Bear, God rest his soul. He would sit us down. When you do a show in London, they explain to us that there's always tea time at four o'clock. And so at four o'clock, we would kind of sit in a circle and he would tell all the ins and outs. He and Jacob would tell about the kittens and these kittens and then the adolescents and the adult cats and how they kind of all, their backstories of the adults back when they were younger and Grizabella would have been all glamorous. They told us stories about Andrew Lloyd Webber and putting it together and piecing it together. And since then, I've listened to every interview possible. I'm sure you've done the same. And so, yeah, they would sit us down and we would have tea time and stop rehearsing for like 40 minutes and he would just tell us all the little ins and outs.

And that was a quick rehearsal process as well, similar to Beef and Boards because it's all summer stock. They do show after show after show at Gateway. And so I remember just how invaluable that time to like stop and talk and just like figure all of that other stuff out was so fascinating.

[6:53] Mike Abrams: How did you, do you even remember like the depth of playing? Like how did you play Bombalurina and Demeter? Did you play them as sisters, as best friends, lovers? Like did you ever get into that level of character development knowing you're doing it for such a short period?

[7:07] Anne Beck: Yeah, the Demeter was played by Jessica Dillon and we became like best friends. And so Bombalurina and Demeter on and off stage just became best friends constantly. Did everything together that entire time we were on that contract. And so, yeah, she, I was her protector. Demeter has a whole backstory that she's constantly taken advantage of and messed with a lot. And so Bomb is kind of her protector. And so, yeah, I was kind of like that off stage as well in a loving, endearing way. And so, yeah, it's super fun to play. It's way more fun to play on stage when you have all that backstory, which is why when I direct the show now, like I just smother them and splatter them with as much backstory as I possibly can because it's so much more fun to play as the actor.

[8:00] Mike Abrams: So that was going to be my next question. And, I mean, we can talk about this from Beef and Boards in particular or Ball State or some of the other ones. You put this up in such a short period of time. How are you getting all of that? Plus, like, dance moves and choreography and singing and not kicking each other in the face and crawling around and having the cat movements. It almost seems like an afterthought in the scheme of all the other things you have to deal with.

[8:26] Anne Beck: Yeah, I actually started with that both when I did it at Ball State, we did it at Emens, which is a huge space to fill, and then at Beef and Boards, which is completely intimate, smaller space to fill. And so day one of rehearsal is always, how do I move as a cat? What's my felinity in every single thing you do as a cat? If you have a cat, you know that every drop of a coin and every loud noise and every person walking into a room and any time there's movement, they follow it with their eyes and they're like super, super engaged. So there's first the sense of being like a feline in general and turning away from being a human and being a cat and how one moves that way. And then the second thing I always do when I put it together is to literally put up the main players of the characters and tell everybody their backstory and who did what to who and backstabbed who and how Grizabella and why she is so betrayed when she wants to come back and be that cat that gets to go off to her next life and why they absolutely do not want her to be the one and how the adults kind of teach the adolescents and the kittens who are now new in today's present day and why they should all feel that way too. So, yeah, I start with story day one just so it's more fun for them all to play. And I've always gotten that feedback too.

[9:51] Mike Abrams: How much depth do you go into? Because there's, like, what is this has to be true and this could be true. I mean, there's so many. Like, I have 275, 80 episodes with different opinions depending on cast and different things. So, like, even I can't go through and be like, you've got to play it exactly this way because I've heard four different versions. So how do you narrow that down for them?

[10:16] Anne Beck: I kind of have used my experience being in the show and then just kind of taking it, I feel like maybe a little tiny bit of my own direction or just making it more specific so that we are telling a story from beginning to end. I think the biggest thing that I do is instead of having a wash of costumes and players go off and change into Bustopher Jones or go off and change into Jenny Annie Dots, I have the characters who have a named song be their characters the entire show. And every time Munkustrap announces the cat who will now be reborn and go back to a different Jellicle life, I have those eight players stand up. And so you're constantly seeing the same people who could be up to go. And at the end of the show, I have Grizabella walk onto that line because she's adamantly proud to take her place and take her space and say, I deserve to go.

I've had a really terrible life and I'm here for forgiveness. So I kind of make the whole show about forgiveness and chosen family and asking for a second chance and rebirth and all of those things. So it's pretty much what Jacob taught me. And there's a great couple of interviews where he really goes into depth as he's watching the show. So a lot of it is very much from Jacob. I think I just, in a visual sense, try to smack it on the audience as much as possible so that no one has that, oh, I wonder what this is about. I feel like just a little bit more clarity.

[11:56] Mike Abrams: Every time I direct it, I try to find something new. I love that because that's something that I think was challenging for me the first time I saw it without any knowledge walking in and not any criticism to the version I saw. It's a lot at you right away. And I, as someone who wrote a lot of stories and humor and all that stuff, I was looking for the through line more. I was looking for the sitcom of it all, which is not what it is. So what did you add this time?

[12:26] Anne Beck: I added this time a lot more of, well, first of all, my cats in the audience. I have added, I add to the prologue, I remember doing it at Gateway and the whole prologue and overture is going out and scaring the humans in the audience with cat glasses and cat eyes. And so I don't do any of that. I use a little bit the second part of the prologue to kind of show Grizabella back in the day with Rum Tum Tugger, Bombalurina, Demeter, Munkustrap and Jenny and Jelly, Lorem. So all of the adult characters that have known each other the longest and knew Grizabella back in the day. And so she comes out and she's kind of more glamorous looking so that when you see her first entrance in the entry of Grizabella, she's very similar looking but obviously very tattered and torn and not as glamorous at all anymore.

So I kind of told a back story. When I did it at Emens, I started with a T.S. Eliot because of the interview where Andrew Lloyd Webber describes how T.S. Eliot's wife found Grizabella's poem in a drawer and all of that. I always tried to make it Grizabella's story really from beginning to end. So at Emens, I started with a T.S. Eliot opening up a big storybook because that's the missing story in the book of poems. And then we had the whole entry of Grizabella.

[14:02] Anne Beck: Isabella and who Grizabella is like playing in words as he was writing during the overture. So that's how I did it during the Emmons contract, but it's such a fast process. You have to have a separate actor and of course doing education, I'm trying to give as many kids roles as possible. So I had a T.S. Eliot and Beef and Boards, every cat has to be a cat who's hired. I can't just have someone all of a sudden snack on all that makeup that takes an hour in five minutes, so I did not have a T.S. Eliot this time. I really tried to make the prologue as much a visual of Grizabella back in the glamour time as possible.

[14:39] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that's so interesting because the, I mean, there's a lot with that one is I, one of my favorite rumors from that poem was that he didn't put it in the original book because he thought it was too scary for children. And then it becomes the number one like kids show that people go to, which is always kind of a little fun and funny. I like that the Ball State production you did five shows like it's a weekend, right? It's like a long weekend and it was in Emmons, which a lot of the touring shows come through. So our University Theatre, we're building a brand new Performing Arts Center right now, which is amazing. It's opening on October 5th and 6th. It's coming up so soon, but we did it in Emmons while we were waiting for our big brand-new Performing Arts Center to be built and so it was a huge space to cover and I had 35 cats.

[15:36] Anne Beck: Yeah, normally our University Theatre is like 450 seats to 500 seats, something like that. So, you know, this was thousands of seats at a time. And so it was really, really exciting and Michael Rafter was the music director, who's, you know, Mr. Broadway credits and is on, he's the music director for Sutton Foster's albums and he's just an amazing musician and artist and collaborator. And so not only did the orchestra sound incredible, but those students on that stage singing that really high vocal caliber was just exquisite. It was just incredible. So is the Beef and Boards with Christy Templin is really quite wonderful what these musicians can pull out of people. It's not an easy score by any means.

[16:22] Mike Abrams: No, not at all. And I mean in Beef and Boards, so you're not doing green eyes. I was curious about that because it's a dinner theater. I know there's a buffet before the show, like that's the whole thing is that you eat.

[16:32] Anne Beck: And we have cats all throughout the house. There's a big surprise at the top of act two for Gus the theater cat that I'm not gonna spoil, but okay, you should get a ticket and come see it. Yes, it's awesome. So, but they are, yeah, they've definitely been gasps of, you know, there's someone singing and all of a sudden an audience member turns around and they're trying to like, you know, eat their pudding and there's like someone right there. So there's definitely been gasps and screams already and just opening weekend when I was there.

[17:01] Mike Abrams: Of course, I was wondering if you were gonna use any of Bustopher Jones's song to like lean into that because you do have food everywhere at that theater.

[17:13] Anne Beck: I would have been a great, great idea. You should have helped me direct that now that I think of it.

[17:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I sure did it. What's funny is that my dream, and part of this is just like, it's when I think about the part, like what I could add to a production, it is the storytelling elements and being able to like add this theory. And actually, you know, we talked before we started that, well, you talk to so many people, so you probably have 95,000 theories. And I think what I had, one of the most fun things I've done is I went to the U.S. national tour when they were in Washington, D.C. and before the show, I gave them a bunch of like just slight things to that like could you make this work? And they're not nothing that would change the story or anything, but like I gave somebody one like could they be actually interested in this cat as a romantic interest?

And would that actually work or not? And they told me it was so fun. Michelle Carter, who's your Jenny Any Dots, was cast and like I was giving her stuff and she was like, this isn't gonna work. And other people were like, this landed right away. And like it was really fun because one of my favorite parts about the show is as a performer, it's got to be fun to be able to do that every night and make a change and not actually change the story or change anything because you have that freedom.

[18:34] Anne Beck: But my dream is, I want to join a rehearsal process and just while you're telling that story, being like, and have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Because there's just so much that they can add to it, come up with for themselves. And I think about at Ball State, they're not gonna have the time to do that this contract. They have, I think you said seven weeks, they've got a little bit more time, but still not that much time versus the tour doing it for a year or two years or yeah, all the other versions. But that's what my dream is, to come to a rehearsal and sit during like story time and just add. Because, you know, I mean, I've had Jacob on twice, three times. I've had him on a couple of times to hear his version and I love that there's like other people that are like, no, even Jake, even some of his things are not the way we did it. And that's the way we tell the story, which is my favorite part of the show is that it's just so open-ended.

[21:02] Mike Abrams: Yes, we're gonna take a quick break and the way back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. So here's my question for you. I am coming, probably this episode probably come out right after I come to see the show. I am bringing a six and there are seven and nine-year-old niece and nephew.

[21:22] Anne Beck: Okay, no nothing about it.

[21:24] Mike Abrams: But they've been to Beef and Boards for Sound of Music and all kinds of other stuff many times and bringing my mom, who is very familiar, my sister who is somewhat familiar, and my dad who does not know anything about this. Okay, how do I prep them for this production?

[21:35] Anne Beck: You prep them by, well, you could show them the book of poems, you could show them some of the, all the lyrics that are in there. You could prep them by, do you want them to know the story ahead of time? I mean, I let them figure it out. I will ask them what they want. I kind of have joked that I've been doing this for seven years now and they should support my endeavor of uncovering the story throughout the seven years. But I don't think a couple of them really know what it's about at all and my niece and nephew obviously don't. Have them pay attention to the full house. Have them pay attention to the prologue and know that it's very intentional. I think some people don't realize it sometimes till she comes out later that that's why that prologue exists, so you could do that.

[22:34] Mike Abrams: And yeah, I think that you should, every production has a different set of names when you start getting away from those lead characters. So, you know, some have it in Mungojerrie, some have a, you know, we have a Plato, we have the twins, Coricopat and Tantomile. And so not every production has the same, so I would say pay attention to the program and see what exactly the cat's names are that we have and just kind of be open, enjoy the dancing obviously and the singing and realize how hard it is to do all of that at the same time. Those children should appreciate it and just have a good time. Just have a good time and take it all in and look around, look over your shoulder at all times. There's a treat at intermission. You might not want to leave your table for very long, there could be cats that end up at your table. So there's all kinds of things to take in from the moment that you get there till the moment you leave. So just take it all in.

[23:43] Anne Beck: Okay, what's something that you have like really changed or taken or evolved from all the different versions you've done? So from Long Island to when you talked about the prologue and the better, this not better but storytelling element and it's a much tighter space. So you're, you know, it's definitely much smaller than especially at Ball State and other places. But is there things that you've kind of like really tweaked over time after time after time of doing this?

[24:04] Anne Beck: I think the biggest thing is Grizabella's story kind of staying throughout, having her come to moments where they're doing the whole Jellicle Ball sequence and having her watch from up top. And I think the biggest thing that I have probably grown the most on directing it myself is the intention of Old Deuteronomy to kind of school all of the cats on, be careful, this could be you one day. We are all not perfect. And so, and the message that I would hope that humans who he, you know, puts down in the most fun-loving way in addressing of cats and how much more elite a feline is over a human, getting that message across, but also that felines and humans are quite similar and that we all make mistakes.

All species make mistakes, all species need forgiveness and all species need, you know, a group of people to say we accept your apology, you know, you messed up. So I think, you know, whatever way species do that without using dialogue and obviously words, I think that it's the message that I want people to be able to take home and kind of relate it to themselves, which is, you know, the goal of a lot of theater to kind of touch you somewhere that's not just singing and dancing for no reason.

[25:41] Mike Abrams: So yeah, I think that the Old Deuteronomy connection in him, especially the top of act two and moments of happiness when they first see him, for instance, in this production, I've not done this before, but they all go over to him like they always do when Papa stands on stage. And so he comes onto the stage and they all go over to him and he kind of like scours at them and they all kind of like cower and they're like, he's upset with us because of what just happened at the end of act one where we didn't accept her. And so moments like that, just trying to really make those moments with more clarity and so that an audience kind of understands what exactly they're singing about.

[26:25] Anne Beck: Yeah, I think that's probably the biggest thing I've grown. Is there a moment that you advise your Old Deuteronomy to where he realizes that he's making the decision of Grizabella or is it something he's known from day one or from the beginning of the show?

[26:40] Anne Beck: I think he has known from the moment she comes back, but I worked with Josiah, our amazing Old Deuteronomy. He's so good. He's so perfect. He just has one of those warm spirits about him anyway and a twinkle in his eye at all times. He reminds me of Ken in the role very much so and even Ken has all those, you know, age and wisdom. And I just, I feel like Josiah just does such a beautiful job. And there's a moment that we had a conversation about it and he went and saw the Jellicle in New York and he said that it was seeing that and then coming back to Cats proper and kind of feeling that moments of happiness and how important that moment is for him. But how we do it at the end of the show is that when they all line up again, the rest of the ensemble is all throughout the house and so the lineup happens and he makes them on the line decide as a group.

And so they all kind of take a step upstage and honor her. And so it's kind of Old Deuteronomy being like, this isn't my decision on my own. I feel like all you all need to take responsibility for this and not be selfish. And so they all as a group decide to...

[28:04] Anne Beck: So that's and I'm not I have not done that before this production. That's cool. I'm excited to see that because this it's a question that like I've seen so many variations of that of how is there a choice where it's like the recognition of the moment or the cast turns around at certain different times throughout the song to say I now recognize this like yeah. There's so many ways you can do it and again I think the beauty of Cats is the first time I saw it I knew none of this. I saw none of it. I saw really good dancing and singing and songs. I didn't know and was confused from start to finish and now I'm like watching. I went to the Regents Park in London and I'm seeing like they're Cassandra making like small little motions of where their jelly worm is grabbing her and I'm like, oh, they're playing a little motherly thing here and like all of those other things like the twins are fascinating turning before with their, you know, understanding what's happening before and they're, you know, telepathy type of stuff.

Yeah, and that's I think what's really cool about the show because you don't need to know all of it to still enjoy it. But the more you know, the more you really lean into oh they make they're making these choices to tell that story. That's that's there. It's also fun to do it with different technical packages like we're different costumes are more telling than others, you know. There's all the theories about who's what cats are related or which cats are possibly old Deuteronomy and you know and so in this particular package there are the perfect amount for me anyway of very gray and black and white cats. And so we had a theory on who's you know related and then they all went to put their costumes on they're like, oh, I think it's true. Look at us. We're both gray and black and white and it was it was really funny.

[29:49] Anne Beck: So that was my next question. What's what is your family tree because I have seen productions put family trees in the programs and I've seen productions that have even within the cast they can't even decide so did you like lay out the family tree? I did not. I did not in this one. I you know, I told them that the various theories, but I wanted them to be able to play in the space and play in their own because so much of the show is improv and because this particular show is such a fast process. I wanted them all to be very invested in very into their characters and what their backstories are and who they relate to and who do they protect and who do they fear and who? Do they you know playing all those great verbs as an actor?

I wanted them to be able to create so I gave them like the basics, but I wanted them to really be able to create and all of their relationships with everyone that's in the tribe. I wanted them to be able to play a lot and not spoon-feed everything because they're also very they're all very very smart and they're all very into it. I have ten students old students in the show. There are ten Ball State alum in the show and they none of them did it with me before. One Ben Adair who's a swing? He just got off doing it on a cruise ship and he played a few of the roles that he's doing now and a few of the others have done it at various productions. And then of course Mish did the tour as Jenny Annie dots and so there's all different levels of their history with it and so I gave them the generals and then I really wanted them to play and be really smart actors and invest from day one which they did.

[31:35] Anne Beck: So were there any you can't change these relationships? Like were there any wreck? You've got to play it this way? Um, it's really the characters from the prologue. I always say that Jenny and Jelly are like give the busy bodies that are super close and super tight and then Bomb and Demeter are those sister-ish type cats where Bomb protects her a lot in her fear of Macavity all the time and I talk about we did talk a little bit about Quack so and Monk and possibly being you know, Deuteronomy's somehow lineage and yeah, so yeah and they the biggest one that they always question are and I'm curious what your thoughts are actually on Mungo and Rump. I mean, it's it's to me. There's I've heard three versions.

I've heard brother sister. I've heard dating and I've heard best friends. And I think what I really liked most was the one I liked the most was the tour actually that the Mungo and Rump were trying to convince Michelle as Jenny any dots that they needed to like I think it was that Mungo needs to win over Michelle to be to like Jenny any dots to be allowed to date Rumble teaser and there's like that element of that which was really fun. But I think one of the again and one of the cool parts about having this show is I have all these recorded I have all the transcripts and notes and I have all the way people have said this and so I can go back and say yeah this is I've heard this version. I've heard, you know, I hear mostly friends or they're like Bonnie and Clyde, you know. Yeah, their costumes always look so similar.

[31:44] Anne Beck: Yeah, I always say that their brother and sister from you know from at least one of their parents are the same. But I also feel like and I feel I'm up. I'm so sorry Jacob. I'm so sorry if I'm making this up. I love you, and I'm so sorry but I feel like he told me that they are the only ones that aren't from the tribe and that they actually live in a home because of the collars because they have the collars and then she's got the pearls because she just stole them either from her owner from someone that came to visit her owner. This particular production is set in when I did it in at Emmons in Ball State, it was set in an old London theater that was like run down and and rickety and rackety and so this was and it was earlier time it was um, but this one is set kind of today in a not necessarily Schubert alley, but definitely like a New York alley.

There's subway signs and they the theater has cracked me up. They've made Broadway like show posters, but they're they're funny. They're not real shows. They are cat dominated titles. Jersey cats, outline of the four rat pack, but it's a cat pack and they have the little ears. It's really love it. It's quite.

[34:55] Anne Beck: Yeah, your relatives will like that. I think they'll I think they'll have a great time. Just I mean in general it's such a fun show to see it's just fun to watch because it's again. So if nothing else like I one of the things I was fascinated like again I grew up playing sports and you know was an athlete and I walked out of that show in 2016 going these are outrageous athletes like to be able to do this is so physically demanding and yes to do it especially what I saw a matinee with a night show coming. I'm like, they're about to go do this again. You know, like like I can't I can't fathom that like I can't I'm not a singer I'm not a dancer to be able to do that at that level at that skill is and again so many weeks and then you put it up in ten days like to learn it all. Yeah, I can barely remember, you know a couple lines let alone being able to remember a whole score and a whole show.

[35:48] Anne Beck: Well, I could not be more thrilled with the athletes and vocalists and just good human beings that this particular 22 plus the two swings make it 24 in the cast they are just they're so dedicated. They all wanted to get it. So, right. And I'm used to a little bit longer of a rehearsal process. I'm quite familiar with a quick one being an actor that's done ton of summer stock and things like that in regional theater, but doing you know when I did Saturday Night Fever in New York on Broadway that's a 10 week rehearsal process and you craft it and you know cut things and tweak things and this is just you have to set it up and do it. But I felt like we you know we had five runs before our designer run which is a little bit unheard of and I think that a lot of that is a test to how dedicated this particular 24 were they were so excited to be in a production of Cats and just fell in love with it with me.

They all were so game to like go on the ride with me and I'm just so appreciative for every single one of them because they're just all incredibly incredibly gifted but just better even better humans there. They were just great.

[37:04] Anne Beck: I've also found that I mean again I've not been to as many as probably most but even boards draws a very great audience too so it's like yes because it's so intimate and it is a dinner theater and you know, there's a gear at a table you're not in a seat. You you get a much more. I thought engaged audience every time I've been there. Yeah, and when I was there this weekend, it was definitely all ages who were loving it. There was a little like eight year old and her friend next to us at a table of eight and there were probably three generations at that table and the giggle fest that this one little girl had every time a cat did anything or came up to their table or just was like her mouth was on the floor watching that dancing the entire end of act one.

I could why I could have watched her all day and then her her giggle was quite infectious in the audience. But then I kind of looked around as I do often when I direct things and just kind of take in the audience and it definitely was all generations loving it just loving it.

[38:00] Anne Beck: So is that has there been any when you've been walking around going like what am I watching? No, no everyone's been pretty invested. Okay, my favorite thing is when I go to see regional productions or it's like I think with a regional production and a beef and boards where people have season tickets. Yes, they are going because it's a show not necessarily something they have picked out to go see and the amount of times I now is as a audience has turned around be like I'll answer whatever question you need to know like let's let's get to this like what do you let's get to the point to where you can now enjoy this because every time they're enjoying the singing and dancing, but they're confused.

And so that is like I've been there and so I'm always trying to bridge that gap for people and so I was curious that a dead beef and boards yet how that's been and because I again last time I was there was Sound of Music which the world knows, you know, I guess you don't need a lot of briefing for that, but Cats will be and a new experience for a lot of people there. Yes, absolutely.

[39:01] Anne Beck: No, I think so far is enjoying that they always do a preview night and there's of course a lot of industry people that do theater and a lot of fellow choreographer friends were there and they seemed to really enjoy and some of them were in it the last time it was done at the beef as it's called the beef and so yeah and so they all you know they said they really enjoyed the differences that there were between this production in the last production. There was a girl that I brought opening night a friend of my daughter's and just graduated from Purdue recently and I said at intermission. Are you getting any of this and she was like I'm so entertained but not totally and then like we kind of talked about it and she was like that makes sense.

Yeah, I got that that makes sense. And I was like, okay, so there yeah, so hopefully hopefully people get a little bit a little bit more each time. That's that's my goal. Anyway, I loved it. The last time I was I was at the Broadway Theatre in Pittman, New Jersey and I remember I was sitting my friends separated because it's sold really well and so we were sitting in three different seats all throughout the theater and the guy behind me turns this friend an intermission was like I just don't get it. The singing is great. Dancing's great music's great but like what is happening and I finally turned around and I was like, I I got you like let me just like get you the basics to kind of go there.

[40:26] Anne Beck: So that's again that's why I asked the question of like how much do you tell somebody going in blind for the first time versus because like I'm now too far I know too much that I have to like figure out where to to give the this is all you need to know. Yeah, and like when I did it at Ball State we had you know dramaturgy and so in the program there was like a whole this is what is happening there was a little bit of a synopsis with like I think of the show as in three parts and so it was a very detailed and described to try to help people just because we knew so many people would be coming to see it with it being at Emmons and then it be from boards. They don't really do a director's note or anything like that so I thought about doing one where they were gonna put it in the lobby but I don't know.

I was on the fence. I wouldn't I want people to go in and enjoy their own ride. It's fine. Yeah, and I think it's there's some fun to it. They had the the director wrote a note in in Pittman and that person hadn't read it so you know it's like they were still you know it's like they they're going through and just trying to figure it out.

[41:33] Anne Beck: Yeah, I have loved that there was um you know a fan who I know and who's been in it and has done it was like every time someone says there's no plot it's like it's in the first song like it's directly stated in the first song if you just listen to the lyrics and so again, and again. So it's I do love it. Are you doing the only other thing I want to ask a little bit about is there are some like parts of like Peaks and Pollicles and the growl tiger like how are you putting any of those in there or are you sticking in at certain moments the...

[42:07] Anne Beck: I've done it both ways. And The Growl Tiger and all of that operetta, that is no longer in a version that you get when you get The Wrights Houses from Concord, I think it is, Concord Theatricals. And they don't do that anymore. It's not in there. Peaks and Pollicles is in there. And because of it being dinner theater and such a diverse crowd and lots of ages, we decided to just make it as short as possible in Act Two, which is where Peaks and Pollicles now sits. It's called the definitive version is what they give you now. And so it puts Peaks and Pollicles after Gus. And it's what Gus looks back at in the day, his moment with those dogs. And so we wrote The Wrights Houses and actually got permission to not do it at Beef & Boards.

So we took Peaks and Pollicles out. So Gus says, I could do it again. And Deuteronomy says, you could do it again. And Gus says, I could do it again. And then the train whistle happens and Skimbleshanks is here. So we just have to move on. Which we do. So we do not bark, bark, bark. And I'm okay with that. I am too. It's a very strange, completely. And I've seen versions where they have done a really good job of making it very clear that this is Gus coming back in the new one. I actually thought it was weirder in Act One.

[43:40] Mike Abrams: It definitely is weirder in Act One. It makes so much more sense.

[43:42] Anne Beck: It's so strange to me in Act One. It makes more... But also I just, again, Regions Park did Growl Tiger instead of Peaks and Pollicles. And so they brought that part in, because it's not Concord. It was from Andrew Lloyd Webber for this reimagined production. And that was the first time I'd ever seen it besides the video.

[44:02] Anne Beck: We had Growl Tiger at Gateway.

[44:05] Mike Abrams: Really? Okay.

[44:06] Anne Beck: I don't remember Peaks and Pollicles though.

[44:08] Mike Abrams: I have never seen Cats until...

[44:09] Anne Beck: So I have no idea if we cut Peaks and Pollicles. Probably. It was like the Pirates and all that, the top of Act Two. Bomb Ballerina wasn't in it. She got to just lay upstairs. So I was pretty happy about that.

[44:21] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's your break. Your only break.

[44:23] Anne Beck: Yeah, it was my only break. I was like, have at it. I'm going to touch up my powder. It's some sweating. Oh, that's in such an education too, is the makeup and powdering. And we have had the better athlete you are, the more full out they all are. And then they're like, oh my God, but I'm sweating so much. I'm never going to be able to keep my makeup on. And they're doing a great job.

[44:48] Anne Beck: Sweaty Annie Dots, I thought was a very funny nickname that Michelle has always said. I would say that the visual part of the show too is worth the price of admission. Andrew Elliott and Drew Bryson, who did our wigs and our makeup. They're just incredible. Just beautiful. I can't wait. I don't even remember where our seats are. There's no bad seat at Beef and Boards too, because it's not that good. It's just like a wall in the round. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died.

[45:20] Mike Abrams: Okay, let's do some rapid fire. So I'm going to answer all of these as in. If you could go on for one night, any cat, doesn't matter if you could sing it, dance it, play it, male, female, who would you want to perform as?

[45:33] Anne Beck: Tugger.

[45:34] Mike Abrams: Tugger. Love it. Who are your favorite and least favorite cats from a personality standpoint? So which one would you want to hang out with and which one would bug you?

[45:44] Anne Beck: Oh, that's terrible. I don't not like any of the cats. Oh, there's definitely... So here's the way I think about it. There's one that's your relative. There's one that's your relative that's a little annoying to you, right? It's just not your vibe. It doesn't mean you don't love them, but...

[46:00] Anne Beck: Play-Doh. I think he's a little pompous.

[46:02] Mike Abrams: Okay. And then who's your best friend?

[46:03] Anne Beck: There's like the beauty of the testosterone of like Alonso and Play-Doh. But yeah. A little too much. Who's your best friend? Who do you love?

[46:12] Anne Beck: Who do I love? I love Bom, but that was me. Am I saying this as Bom or is that just...

[46:17] Mike Abrams: As you, as Anne Beck, who would be the one you'd hang out with from a personality standpoint?

[46:22] Anne Beck: Who would be your best friend in the show, like from the show?

[46:25] Anne Beck: MonkaStrap and Bom, probably because I'm a caretaker in life. And so the ones that are taking care of everyone else, that's Sue. Yeah. Okay. What's your favorite song in the show?

[46:37] Anne Beck: Probably Gumby Cat.

[46:39] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Okay.

[46:40] Anne Beck: And then The Ball. I'm a big tapper. So I would love to be Jenny someday. I will never be too old, I hope, to play Jenny Annie Dots. I would love to play that in a heartbeat. I will never sing it like me. She's just incredible. There is no one that sings that role better than her. She's just like the perfect voice type that you want to hear, and her spirit. And she's so wonderfully jolly and amazing on and off stage. But yeah, I'm a big tapper. So I think that. And then just The Ball, the whole big dance sequence at the end of Act One. I've been listening to that music since I was a kid. And I can sing you every... I love having an orchestra and a band, but I don't need them because I feel like I can sing every little intricate part. Because I know that music so well.

[47:31] Mike Abrams: I love it. I always ask a fun one. So which cat do you think would be the most Hoosier? Like, which is the most Indiana cat?

[47:38] Anne Beck: Skimbleshanks.

[47:41] Mike Abrams: Okay, why?

[47:42] Anne Beck: Because he's like everybody's favorite uncle. And I feel like, and ever since I've moved here, all I hear, no matter where I am, is the train at 4:30 in the morning, going through the cornfields. So yeah, I feel like it's Skimbleshanks.

[47:59] Mike Abrams: Okay, okay. And then my million dollar question is, I've argued at length that I don't think Grizabella should be the right Jellicle choice. And I've really been arguing for audience votes. I know that you're at least with me on that. But I want to know you, Anne, I know you're not going to direct it that way. But who is your Jellicle choice and why?

[48:18] Anne Beck: Well, I think it would be between As Is and it'd be Grizabella, because girlfriend has gone through it. And she just needs to go. She just needs to go. But I feel like it would be Gus, who's lived a full time in this one and is ready to go experience like, youth again, I think maybe.

[48:47] Mike Abrams: That's my argument is I think Grizabella needs to spend the year with the family. And I think before she goes, yeah, well, you get your whole redemption. I don't want to get rid of the redemption story and arc. I think that is an incredibly important part of this show.

[49:02] Anne Beck: Yeah, and the message. But I also have watched a lot of younger Grizabellas who as talented as they are to sing their heart out and have that pain. They don't look ready at the end to not be able to make it for one more year. Yeah, I want Gus to go. I want that's my argument.

[49:20] Mike Abrams: Oh, okay. So we agree.

[49:22] Anne Beck: Yeah, yeah. I'm team Gus with Grizabella going the year after like, let her spend some time with the family.

[49:27] Mike Abrams: I like that. Is there any world where I can convince you on the day I'm coming to let Gus go?

[49:33] Anne Beck: No.

[49:35] Mike Abrams: Okay. I had to ask.

[49:38] Anne Beck: Or an audience member. It's weird for me because our Gus and our Bustopher are the same actor. My amazing older student Rashaun. And so that's one of the characters. You know how I said I keep them the character the whole time. Yeah, that's he's just kind of a little visit trip and then he goes away.

[49:56] Mike Abrams: Oh, so he comes back. So Gus isn't out there at the end.

[50:00] Anne Beck: Gus is out there at the end.

[50:02] Mike Abrams: And Bustopher's not.

[50:03] Anne Beck: That's not. Yeah.

[50:03] Mike Abrams: Okay. Okay. I was gonna say that's harder.

[50:06] Anne Beck: We could send Gus. They will be so thrilled to know that that is your choice. I mean, just one time. I've offered theaters to where I was like, I'll buy all the tickets and donate them if you'll do this and let me capture it. So that way I can say I've successfully completed my mission.

[50:26] Mike Abrams: I will consider the buzzer and the audience choice and consider it not being Grizz next time.

[50:34] Anne Beck: Okay.

[50:35] Mike Abrams: I don't think I can do it by the 24th or by the time you're coming to the theater.

[50:39] Anne Beck: I will. You absolutely could. I'm coming in Thursday. I can come in and I can come. I actually might be coming Thursday again because I have a friend in Indiana who's dying to go and can't go on Sunday. And so they're trying to convince me to go when I land on Thursday again. And so there's still a chance I'm going twice. But I do think I could help you with this. I've got time. I know exactly what you need to do.

[51:01] Mike Abrams: I have no doubt you could help me. That's not a doubt in my mind. It's, you know, I don't know. That's asking a lot. It's a lot of technical elements involved with our ending.

[51:17] Anne Beck: So that's, yeah, I guess that is a question of like, if Grizabella's flying or some kind of like, up to the Heaviside lair, that is something that would be harder to adjust, which I understand.

[51:29] Mike Abrams: I'm not speaking. I'm not ruining anything.

[51:35] Anne Beck: There is a very easy flip for Gus to go one time or the audience. That is the harder part. If you do an audience vote and you do have that element, you have to be prepared for every person to fly. But I've seen so many where they don't actually just, like, you know, if the tire is just going up and the tire is raising, then you're just hooking somebody in or they're holding on anyways. You could easily do that. I've thought about this for seven years. I have it ready to go everywhere we can. I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I also think it's, I feel like audiences, it's like the people's choice, right? So I feel like audiences really have to understand what it is that they're choosing, because I feel like most would be like, oh, I love that Rum Tum Tugger. He's so fun. Let's send him. So it just becomes audience love as opposed to the reason that they're going to their next life. So I feel like that's a whole different set of circumstances.

[52:44] Mike Abrams: Well, so my original joke for this podcast was I saw Leona Lewis, which was the X Factor and the X Factor created One Direction and Fifth Harmony and all these other ones. And so I said, I want Tugger and Mistoffelees to go together as a boy band. And that was my original joke. And I still think if you audience voted, you would have Tugger going frequently and other ones, but you would have certain audiences that would really get it. And they would be like all in on that. And Grizabella would get chosen a lot, because when you think about it from the X Factor fashion, there's going to be the package video before about her sad life and all that. It's like her story would be compelling. And then she sings an incredible song. She would win a lot, but she's not going to win every time.

[53:28] Anne Beck: No, she won't win every time.

[53:32] Mike Abrams: So that's what I'm shooting for. Just one time. All right. You're the closest I've gotten to even consider it. So I'm going to take this as a win right now. I think well, I because there's something everyone likes to kind of, you know, change something up and see kind of all of the different avenues that have to go along with for the ride with it. But I don't know, I feel like I can't. I can't completely justify it. I feel like I would have like Ken Page looking down on me in bad ways and Jacob and I'd have to talk this over with my with my cat's mentors.

[54:10] Anne Beck: I will email Jacob and you together right away. When we hang up and say, I'm shooting for this. I need your blessing.

[54:19] Mike Abrams: We're dying to work on a project again together. Maybe we'll have to have a theater have us do it together. And then we can have the who goes to the Heaviside Layer battle.

[54:29] Anne Beck: I will. I'm going to email him tonight when we finish and let him know that we recorded. I'm going to put you both on an email together and I'm going to say I want to do this while I'm in town and I need your blessing. And let's see what he says, because I still I mean, he's the best. So I will happily.

[54:48] Mike Abrams: He is the best. Okay. Well, I'm considering this. This is this. Honestly, the fun part is that this will come out, I think, after right after that. So I'll either be posting this with the I can't believe that we actually did this or it'll just be another amazing experience seeing Cats. And I'm so excited to come see it. So how can how can people stay in touch with Beef and Boards and like I'll link how to get tickets and everything because it's going to be running for at least another month after or it runs through November 22nd.

[55:15] Anne Beck: Yeah, so there'll be plenty of time to still go see it. Although when I was looking, there's a lot of sold out shows. So you got to get your ticket. It's selling like crazy.

[55:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So people love it.

[55:30] Anne Beck: People love it. Awesome. Well, this has been so fun. Thank you for coming on. And I'm so excited to come see your vision.

[55:37] Anne Beck: Thank you. I should probably be there when you're there. So I look forward to seeing you in person.

[55:43] Mike Abrams: Awesome. Well, thank you. And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown the cast attribute to follow Apple Podcasts, Spotify or podcast. Follow us on social media at The Wrong Cat Died or check it out at thewrongcatdied.com.