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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, hi. I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpm.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the one good night. I'm the one good night. I welcome

[0:29] Speaker 2: to the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another fun episode. You might have seen him on Broadway in this tiny, little musical called Hamilton, where he recently played James Madison. But I'm throwing away my shot at that discussion to talk about his performance as Old Deuteronomy at Elon University and College. So welcome Fergie l Philippe, and thank you for joining me.

[0:52] Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for having me. Man, listen this. This show is infamously that my favorite show that I did at Elon so I'm very excited to get to talk about it.

[1:04] Speaker 2: I love it. So that's so I guess. How many shows did you do at Elon University?

[1:10] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I mean shows overall, over 20. But last was part of our, like, main stage program that we put on. I want to say six main stages every year, and I got to do, I think, eight of the like, main stage shows, and we did cats in the winter of my senior year.

[1:28] Speaker 2: So let's, let's talk, I guess, before we talk about that production, tell me about your cat's history. You know, had you seen it before that production? Did you know much about

[1:36] Speaker 3: it? I had once seen it. I think I was a junior. I think I had watched it with a group of friends, intoxicated, because we knew we were going to be doing the show next year. And so

[1:51] Speaker 2: we've got the schedule. You're like, I gotta get ready. I need to do

[1:56] Speaker 3: some research. Yeah, so you saw the 1998 movie. We saw the tape we saw VHS, yes,

[2:08] Speaker 3: we had gone to like Goodwill earlier in the week, and he had found it in the VHS section, which still exists at most Goodwills and

[2:18] Speaker 2: major university. You couldn't have gone to the public library and grabbed it. They

[2:22] Speaker 3: don't. They didn't have that, they didn't have cats, which is probably a good decision on their part, which is probably a good decision on their part. So you

[2:33] Speaker 2: had never been exposed to it until you're a junior in college.

[2:36] Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think the only song that I knew was, I mean, I mean, I know the famous did it, but the Jellicle Ball, like I know the Jellicle Ball, and I knew the opening because when I was in high school, I went to a summer camp shout out to French Woods festival the performing arts. We had this thing called cabaret troupe. And one year we were doing London, and the opening number was, like the first 16 bars of cats.

[3:05] Speaker 2: Wow. So that's rare, because I'm used to people saying that they knew memory and only memory. Yeah, I kind of intro

[3:11] Speaker 3: I knew memory, like how I just knew memory all alone in the moonlight. That's really about it. And I only knew it because of school of rock that like one moment in School of Rock, but I didn't really know. I didn't really know memory like that. Yeah,

[3:24] Speaker 2: I I love that your first interaction with the musical was intoxicated, because that's the way I think you should be seeing it. Yeah, I thought it was correct. So what did you like? How'd you feel watching it? And then did you even know who old dude around me was when you when you were watching the the VHS?

[3:39] Speaker 3: I knew Ken page was in it, and that's really all I cared about. I would someone said I didn't want to watch this. That was also something that should be stated. I was very against watching the show that night. But somebody said, but Fergie, Ken page is in it. And I said, Okay, well, hit play, because I love Ken page. Ken page is one of my, you know, vocal idols, but I remember watching it, I think I actually had a very good sense about it, because I didn't feel anything like, why am I watching this? What is happening? I was just having a great time, and it was probably because I was intoxicated. I don't think that I took it too seriously. I was just like, there are all these people in unitards dancing very well to some really interesting psychedelic 80s Andrew Lloyd Webber jams. That's what we'll call them. Yeah,

[4:38] Speaker 2: that is, I guess, a an interesting introduction to the musical. I mean, yeah, you know, a little bit of the beginning, you know, a couple bars of memory, and then you just, you know, you're about to audition for it, and you're about to do it in college. So you're, you're ready, yeah, so I'm

[4:53] Speaker 3: ready to go. It was skimble Shanks that made me be like, Oh, I don't do I am I really gonna, if I get COVID. So I hate myself. It was skimble Shanks that really made me understand why people didn't like the show.

[5:04] Speaker 2: That was your your your hate. You hated skimble shanks. I don't

[5:09] Speaker 3: hate skimble Shanks, but it was one of those numbers that I was like, I How did this get approved?

[5:14] Speaker 2: A long way through that musical before you said, wow, approved. I know,

[5:19] Speaker 3: I think I would say that I have a very low I have a I have a high tolerance for bad musical theater in terms of watching it. And I don't think necessarily, cats is a bad musical, even watching the beginning part of it. I was like, I can, I can get with this. I can let myself, you know, invest in this, but skimble Shanks was the moment where I was like, Oh, this. This is why people are upset. This is why people have very active anger.

[5:52] Speaker 2: That is, that's See, I didn't walk out of the show. I saw it in 2016 as a revival on Broadway. Then I saw it again a year later, almost to the day, and then when I was starting to prepare for this podcast, because, you know, I got suckered into doing this. I was watching them, like individually on YouTube, but I was like, I should watch the whole thing. And I ended up watching it on a plane, because I was able to buy and download to watch offline on a plane, and I watched on an iPad on a plane, and the whole time I was like, what? What's happening? Like, what is happening here again, intoxicated, but it's, it's, I've got, I've got a lot of opinions on the show, but I want to get to your, your performance. How long was your run?

[6:38] Speaker 3: We I mean, it was, I think, six performances over one weekend? No, it was over a weekend. Actually, it was one weekend. We did a show, Thursday, a show, Friday, two, show, Saturday, two, show, Sunday, and then we were done. That's how it went.

[6:54] Speaker 2: So what was told to you? Because I've been fascinated by the storyline about plot or lack thereof plot. And there's a million ways to interpret these characters. And it seems like there are parts that are just like unwritten parts that everyone's told but in a production like this, it's gonna be one weekend. How much do they tell you about Old Deuteronomy? Like when they say, this is what you need to know. Here's how you need to embrace it. Did they give you any heads up on like, how to take on this role.

[7:26] Speaker 3: Yes, no, yes, there was, I remember that there were directions in the callbacks, just simple as you are, in charge of everyone in our production. Deuteronomy was basically everyone's father. That was essentially how we kind of played it out, that we would figure out the tree later. We would figure out the tree later. But essentially, Deuteronomy was the all the all Madra of fathers for

[8:02] Speaker 2: cats. That's a little dark though now when you think about it, because it means that you're about to kill one of your kids.

[8:08] Speaker 3: It means we're about to kill one of my kids. That's right, yeah, we'll get into, well, we'll definitely get into a lot. There were a lot of different choices that we decided to go this route because it should also be stated this production was done right after the 2016 election,

[8:28] Speaker 2: right after the election, so that would have been before, no, the revival had already been going. The revival had

[8:35] Speaker 3: already been going, Yes, but we had managed to get the rights right before they cut off any school production, so we were the only outside production doing cats next to the cruise ship. Yeah, at the time, wow. Okay,

[8:51] Speaker 2: so one weekend, couldn't see it on on Broadway. It was you

[8:58] Speaker 3: came down North Carolina, and you come, you came and see the scene these college kids do some cats. But I only remembered as far as the director. Her name is Lynn fermato. God bless that woman. She she and I had a great relationship. We had worked together on a few shows at Alan, and she was very good that she always artistically trusted me in whatever show that I did with her. So there wasn't necessarily a lot of conversation always, but the one thing that she said to me after rehearsal once is, you're playing him like a great Shakespeare king. And that's the that's the direction I want you to keep going in. And that was basically it. That was the only direction that I had

[9:40] Speaker 2: so Shakespeare, King, dad of everybody, and that nothing else did they tell any other lie like for other characters? What other family trees relationships Did you establish this

[9:52] Speaker 3: truth? So once we essentially, once we got into rehearsals the way that we established the treat. And I cannot. Remember if we made it in rehearsal with everybody else, or if we just as a cast, did it? I had many, many conversations with cast member, like different cast members, about the specificities of relationships. So all I knew is that I had a set of children that involved monkey strap, uh, Rum Tum, um, I think coracle Pat, nope, not coracle Pat, and potentially misto police, most office. There we go. That's who I'm looking for. So my main three, like my main three, like oldest children were misto police, Rum Tum and monkey strap. Other children included Demeter and bomb by arena. What about my cavity? Macavity was my son. Mccavity was our son who went, who went to stray and Okay, fell off the beaten path. Uh, Jenny, any docs? We originally it was my best friend, Jesse. We originally decided we were exes, and then she got the memo that we were that everyone was my child. And she said, I'm very sorry. I did not mean to turn this into an incestuous cat relationship. That's not what I was going because she could be mom, there she could be mom, but I think she's mom. I think she, I think she so this is how it differs with us. We she decided to bow out. And I think she, she might have even said sister or something. I can't remember how that went. But essentially, our, overall dynamic was that grizzy was mom, everyone's mom, that yes, I was dude, I was Father, grizzy was mom. Grizzly left us to start another cat litter,

[11:56] Speaker 2: and now we come back and murder your ex wife. Dark,

[12:06] Speaker 3: scandalous. Was so dark. It was so it was amazing. I was so, I was so here for it. But it was, I think, the day we we all decided that grizzly was mom. There was so much the moment after the Jellicle Ball, when she comes back, and it's right before the first memory before the intermission, the first time we ran that sequence, there was such hatred in the room. And I wish I was joking, but it was kind of the first time that all of us truly emotionally connected to what we were portraying. We really were like, wow, this is a, this is a very different turn that we're making with these cats. But I think we like it. And yeah, so that was our family tree, essentially. So

[12:57] Speaker 2: there is the grizzabel Deuteronomy are together rumor, yes, but I just had trouble with that one, because I have trouble with him then picking her to win.

[13:07] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Our production was also problematic because Old Deuteronomy was kind of a blinded idiot in terms of picking Grizabella. We made it very clear that I don't want to answer a question too early, but well, then I'll just say this. There was one cat that we as a cast decided should have gone and then, and then Deuteronomy picks Grizabella. And there was a moment where everyone is like, you sure? And then the naming of cats is how I convinced everyone.

[13:46] Speaker 2: So that's Gus. We all,

[13:50] Speaker 3: we all fully decided that Gus should have gone to the heavy side later. This is

[13:55] Speaker 2: usually my last question, but we're just gonna flip the script today. Great. You think it should be Gus

[14:00] Speaker 3: me as a person, for any person? Yes, absolutely. But

[14:07] Speaker 2: you as you know you're not going to sit here and try to change a show that's been around for 40 plus years. So you just were like, we're just going to stick with it and sing your song. Yeah, exactly.

[14:19] Speaker 3: I was like, I guess we're not going to try to do daring theater. We're gonna sit here and do the same old thing that we've been doing for years. But no, I thus fully, thus should go.

[14:32] Speaker 2: He has the most logical explanation. When you break down everything about this show, there's, there's almost the only argument I've heard against it was Christopher who played Gus okay in the 16 revival, and he said that he didn't think he had another life to live. So he thought if he died, it was over. And I kept thinking, that's just him telling themselves, so he doesn't get angry. Shows a week that he's not there. Yeah, but that's like, the only thing I can think about is that, like, maybe because otherwise I'm with you, I don't know how you don't pick, pick them, and that's not the angle I've taken, but that's Yeah, but that's the one that makes the most sense to me and most people, yes,

[15:17] Speaker 3: I felt like there was another person that in my mind, I was like, they also I couldn't remember who the next person was. Maybe it was jelly. I don't think it was jelly. Probably

[15:31] Speaker 2: it's usually Jenny. Jenny is the next person I could see. Jenny. We didn't make Jenny that much older in ours. Jenny was pretty that's why she was generally pretty young in ours. Yeah, that makes sense. It's usually the because there's like, three tiers of cat ages, right in the production. And so it's usually pretty much goes in that tier, grizzabella, Gus, Jenny, I think jelly, maybe Buster, fur, but no one really argues for him, no one. And then it goes down to the next tier, and it's like bomb Tugger Mustafa, please. Monks trap. And then it's like the last year, where it's Victoria and alanzo and all this, like the kittens, where it's like, yeah, they don't have any any argument. They

[16:13] Speaker 2: But I yeah, there's a lot of ways to angle that. So I'm glad that you're okay, so your team got so you're with me that the wrong cat dies. Oh, 100% perfect. Yeah. Now, one thing that happened in the 2016 revival that and again, this is like my only frame of reference, is that in an intermission, Old Deuteronomy sits on stage the entire time. Did you have to do that? No, okay,

[16:36] Speaker 3: I was quite vocal since day one, did they try to make you do that? They asked me, and I was I said, Absolutely not. I'm glad you did. I was like, No, I'm I'm going to go backstage and get a intermission. But also, what should be noted is that conceptually, our Old Deuteronomy was very different from how we from how he's usually played, you like the ken page version, slash The Quint neld Arrington version. I call that the mop. That's like the mop Deuteronomy, how he's conceptualized. But ours was very Silver Fox, very like, almost Morgan Freeman esque, like we made him. He's he's older, but he could still kick some ass if he needed to. You know what I'm saying? Like he, he still has got the ability to go off. So

[17:30] Speaker 2: you probably should have fought mccavity In that scene like he didn't get kidnapped. You absolutely you, like you would have handled business if you need. I would

[17:39] Speaker 3: have handled some business. Well, I think that's what made some of the the Macavity stuff. That's where we I remember as a production were kind of trumped, because there were a lot of moments where um Deuteronomy would have, like, the ability, like, if there was ever the first couple times, you know, we think Macavity is around. Usually it's just monkey strap and Rum Tum and misto police handling business. But in our production, it was just me and monkey strap.

[18:13] Speaker 2: So okay, so they weren't even the other two. The two potential lovers were the

[18:21] Speaker 3: backstage? Yeah, they were backstage, handling the masses while me, me and monkey strap, my oldest son. We handled everything. We made sure everything was good. So the kidnapping was definitely one of those, like, we just have to, we just have its plot. So we can't, we can't cut it. We have to bring it back in. You just got to make it happen. Did

[18:42] Speaker 2: you do growl? Tiger and griddle bone? We cut it. Cut it. Okay, so that's not in the 16 revival. Or at least, I don't know. I don't remember if it was and it was, like, weirdly added to the new movie. Yes,

[18:54] Speaker 3: I still have to see the new movie. I'm waiting for the right time. I don't know if that time will ever come, but I will watch it sometimes.

[19:01] Speaker 2: Watch it in a similar state to when you watch the 1998 movie. This is, and yeah, and you'll, I feel like, since you've been in it, you'll get more of an appreciation than what comes from it. There are some artistic choices that might not have worked, sure, but overall, it's cats with a little bit more plot and an extra song. No, it's like, it's really, it really is still cats. And so I it's like, it gets a lot of hate because it's, I think, just like, the music was easy to poke fun at 100% and the movie was even easier to poke fun at, because there were a lot, a lot of artists, artistic choices and errors, yeah, man,

[19:44] Speaker 3: ripping ripping skin off. That's just, uh, you know, that's a real, that's a real daring choice to make someone rip off their fur.

[19:52] Speaker 2: You know, there were just some editing pieces in the very first week too, where there was just, like, a guy in a hoodie that wasn't like. Forgot that he was supposed to be not in that shot. And it's like, probably, like some sound engineer or something, like some some guy doing something staging. And then all of a sudden they start doing and it's like, Oh no, he's still there. I also

[20:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that got some traction with what was it? Seth Rogen, I think somebody like, really went after it. Seth Rogen, and there is a cut that there's, there's a lot. I mean, Angela Weber kind of stepped away and kind of backed out of being involved. Jason Derulo said that he thought was gonna change the world. So, like, there's, there's a lot. I just think, like, kudos to all those people for getting paid like this. The movie didn't, but all the actors did. And

[20:48] Speaker 3: actors, hey, listen the actor, the Andy blankenbueler, he got his check. Yeah, and you know, they were all good to go. And I think it's

[21:00] Speaker 3: I think universal has known exactly how this is going to go. Yes. Okay,

[21:07] Speaker 2: so let's also, let's talk about some other Old Deuteronomy questions and rumors. Did you think you even had a chance to be picked

[21:24] Speaker 2: not. Like you don't even think you're in the running. I

[21:27] Speaker 3: think the complicated thing with old dude position of being sent to the heavy side layer is that because he's the one who picks it, he would have to dethrone himself. Self from the from the litter, he would have to dethrone himself his litter. So I believe that when He hands the crown over to monkey strap to officially his daughter, he's done. And then, you know, it's up to monkey strap, whether or not he sends his father to the heavy side. Later, there's a whole other musical that is cats, cats

[22:02] Speaker 2: too. I've heard a lot of variation of cats too already on this podcast. That is so I kind of agree. I just didn't think it's that he has a chance. But I think it's an interesting question of, like, why

[22:15] Speaker 3: not? Why not? Yeah, it's, it's true, and it's also it then goes into the question of whether or not is, Deuteronomy aligned with godliness? Like there has to be that conversation, especially since he has a biblical name, like there's just one of those things, because that's also not really established. Whether or not Deuteronomy is like a genuine like figure amongst these cats, or if he is like a representative from the heavy side layer that has been sent to Earth in cap form to pick. And

[22:44] Speaker 2: is the heavy side layer actually a place? Or is it a reborn? Yeah, another piece is kind of argue.

[22:56] Speaker 2: rumor, and I don't remember where I heard this originally. It was some you know video is that there was a place in the Winter Garden Theater, or there was a place like in the attic or in the balcony, or somewhere up there that they kind of called the heavy side layer. It was just a place up in the theater. And so I think, I think it might have even been Ken page or somebody was talking about how there's some story behind that. Why are we totally making that out too? I don't know, but that's like, I remember vaguely hearing that. That's

[23:25] Speaker 2: That's true. There's a lot of pieces to that. And like I I made up one that I know is not correct, but I think is fun, please, is there is a 2016 cat that's called Peter, that is played by Gus and the Buster for track, and it's just basically the name of cat that dances in the beginning. And it's a totally worthless character. And it's always been my like, Why Does it even exist, especially with all these crazy names, why is Peter just thrown out there, right? So I'm thinking maybe because he's only in that first dance, that maybe he's St Peter, and he's down there it's kind of like scope things out. And he actually is managing the website later, and that's why he only dances the first number, because then he's got to go up to greet Grizabella when she gets there.

[24:13] Speaker 2: yeah, make sure everything's okay. Gets everything started.

[24:19] Speaker 2: back guys. Yeah. There's been great dudes in charge, our rep is there to pick to go back up and and we'll be back. And then there's also, there's a rumor that makes this a step further, is that there's a baby Grizz in some of the opening numbers, which, again, I don't know if there's a lot of truth to that, but it's just, I think they need bodies in the opening number A lot of times. So one is called Baby Grizz. And I'm like, maybe Peter and baby Grizz are down there. Peter and baby Grizz are down there, foreshadowing. Whoa.

[24:48] Speaker 3: You know what I would buy that theory. I actually would very much buy a reincarnation theory. I think that would be a very, very that would be a relatable. Nine cat life? Yeah,

[25:01] Speaker 2: I have no I have no way to verify it, because Andrew Weber ignores all of my DMs. Oh, your immediate request where I want to ask him about this, so I have no idea to verify. If that's just overthinking, I'm pretty sure the beauty of cats is, that there is no answer done. 99% of the questions, it's just nobody cats dancing and singing, and then that's it. You figure out the rest, yeah, you solve the problem. And they tried, in the movie to put some like story line in there, and we all know happened, so it's like they should just go back to not telling anybody anything that's happening and see what they come up with exactly. So let's talk about a couple other parts of the the musical. I know that you have strong opinions on so I think you mentioned the moments of happiness. Yeah, we got to talk about that. So what are your thoughts like? What do you what bothers you about it? I

[25:57] Speaker 3: wish I had thoughts. I don't know what that song means I performed it, and I It was upsetting, because when we blocked it, the director said, ferky, you know, let's just talk. And the weird for me, I don't I didn't see the 2016 revival, but in our production, they had all the cats come back out on stage, and I sang the moments of happiness to everyone. And so I'm, I'm singing this song, and she just goes. So what does it mean? You know, you're an actor who does research. Tell me what you researched about this song? And I was like, Oh, I did. Apparently I, and I don't know what I said for sure, pulled it out of my ass, and it was something about positivity and happiness in the afterlife. And everyone thought I was being profound and that I was saying the things that I truly thought about and I could and the worst part is I couldn't remember what I had BS for the future. So when I would go to perform it again, I still was just like rattling off who knows what. And the only direction that I remember getting was, I can't even remember the lyrics that last line, the last line that he sings before the memory reprise comes in, he has one line, and all she said was, I want you to just like, flick off the line like, oh, well, you know, maybe it's that. Maybe it's not which I remember saying to myself, doesn't that negate the seriousness that apparently is required of this entire song that I still don't know the meaning of um, and so I think it didn't bother me in the show, but my friend Daniel, who played Macavity in that 2016 production, I I asked him one day. I was like, oh, yeah, what? What did you guys do when it came to the moments of happiness? He said, Oh, we have no idea. And I said, you're kidding. He goes, No, we truly like we I'm sure Q had something in his mind, but none of us knew whatever was happening during that song, yeah. And I

[28:28] Speaker 2: I'm sure you know, help people. But yeah, and whoever's thought there, maybe I don't know. I'm at this point, I'm not sure. I assume he's thought through any of it, either

[28:36] Speaker 3: any of it. He just hashed it out and then sent it in. Yeah,

[28:41] Speaker 2: it's an interesting place. It's an interesting kind of piece. Part of me wonders too, is like, does it just give you a chance to belt a little bit at that point? And like, maybe that was where I'm like, That's great. We're not utilizing this character enough. Let's give them, you know, a couple lines here to solo, and then let's, let's move on, and

[28:59] Speaker 3: then let's move on. Because I think right after that, it goes into, doesn't it go into Gus Right after that?

[29:09] Speaker 2: I think I don't know, I You're overest. I've not seen this full through all that many times. I've seen, like, bits and pieces over and over again. But I know well, so my, my whole, my whole argument has been, I don't know that much about Broadway in general. I'm a fan, but I, I could tell you, I, you can see here I'm wearing, I'm wearing pacer stuff. I got Indiana University behind me. I got support stuff all over here. That's what I know and but I, I do also appreciate, like writing. And so when I saw this, I was like, there's no someone, someone jacked up this writing. And that was where all of my kind of like humor around it and kind of poking fun at it came from. And then when we started doing this, I'm still like, I could. And tell you the first thing about any of the dance numbers and the singing, I can't sing. I can't dance. I can't tell you any of this stuff. And so I what I do know is that how I interpreted what I witnessed and how I would rewrite some of these things, and that's about it. And so when you get to, like the moments of happiness, or stuff that's not related to any of like, the characters to where I think it's related to them, their performance to be considered. I'm just like, yeah, the joke about it's an orgy. What else do you need to know? I don't know what else precisely, I don't really understand the point of the rest of it, besides the synergy, yep, whereas, like, I interpreted this as a musical competition. And so when they're not, when the cat's not giving their performance as their audition for dying. The rest of it is just like filler on on a competition show, you know? It's like the little pre, pre story about them, like you get a little early Grizabella, where they're going to talk about her girl her life before she does her performance, you know? And that's how I look at this whole thing. And so all this the joke of all the moments of happiness, that's just like Terry Crews on America's Got Talent, kind of like doing some filler in between.

[31:09] Speaker 3: That's exactly it. It just seems like a themed dance concert that's really and when I say like, not necessarily through lined but themed, like, this year's dance concert is cats, and that's exactly what I think the musical,

[31:23] Speaker 2: yeah, it's your it's your chance to try to win, give your best effort. Feel free to do with a partner if you want. You know, like you can. And everyone kind of, yeah, and that's it. There's no more. It's too see you at the end. And then the wrong you know, and in that case, I don't even think Gus is the choice. I think Gus is a choice. If you angle it from like he's older, he's deserving. He's one. I think you you pair a couple of the the younger cats who have some great performances, and send them up Mongo

[31:55] Speaker 3: Jerry and rumple teaser, if it's just based on talent and skill alone, they they win. So

[32:01] Speaker 2: that was hands down when I left. The first time I saw it. The only thing stuck in my head was that song, Mongo general ripple teaser. Could stop thinking about it. The whole dance number was, like, incredible that these two were able to dance, dancing that number, like, do that entire performance in like, in sync together, and then say, but I picked Tugger and me together. I want to pair those two. Those are two entertaining numbers in the musical. Yes, they're show stoppers, both of them, like early and late. And that's, that's who I'm picking our Tugger was the drag queen. Okay, not the rock star. So drag No, not rock star. It

[32:43] Speaker 3: was a, it was a Beyonce inspired drag queen, because our Tugger, Austin Henderson, who's a brilliant singer, Beyonce is his biggest inspiration. He, he really, I mean, he walked into that rehearsal and saw his character design. And he was like, wow, that wig is, is really luscious. And they were like, Oh, that's right, we're gonna, we're gonna make it a, not a good old like Beyonce drag queen. I don't believe we said transgendered. I think we specifically were on drag queen and, and that's the route we went. And, hey, he killed

[33:21] Speaker 2: it. I would say, I like that. You can that kind of still keeps the persona of like this, like, confident and Yeah, and just like, owns that, like that character. It was the before in London, before they, they brought it back to New York. They did some like, hip hop, yeah, rapping, street cat. And they changed the song. I was like, that to me, misses, but transgender, like a drag queen version,

[33:48] Speaker 3: great, yeah, it was a hit. I mean, and they put like, you know, like pop dance moves, like, I was skeptical. I'm not even gonna lie, but I mean, it worked. It was so good, and he did a great job. Yeah, we had a great time with that. Did

[34:03] Speaker 2: you what other changes did you make? So you've got Morgan Freeman, Old Deuteronomy, you've got a Tugger.

[34:13] Speaker 3: It was really political. We had the peaks and the polls be the Republicans and the Democrats straight up. Like, we were not shy about it. It was the elephants and the donkeys and they were dog toys. They were like, We made like dog toys

[34:29] Speaker 2: right after the election, right? Like, I mean,

[34:33] Speaker 3: it got even more direct. We had a whole we had a subplot that Macavity was at not that Macavity was a secret agent for Trump cat. We are the president of the cats. Was a Trump cat, and Macavity would what took me originally, because Trump cat was going to deport all of us. We had a whole giant newspaper. Paper with a picture of Trump cat on it and everything. It was wild. That

[35:03] Speaker 2: is, that is a different version than what I saw in 2016

[35:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, man. It was definitely. It was new. It was different. We were very interested by it.

[35:14] Speaker 2: It fits my reality TV narrative, yeah, it

[35:18] Speaker 3: kind of was, we definitely, kind of played to that. Oh, we also definitely made mistop allies gay, like, we made that very clear during his number. I feel like

[35:27] Speaker 2: 90% of the numbers of versions of misophys I've ever seen are play that up.

[35:32] Speaker 3: Are like, Hey, he's gay. Just so, you know, yeah, I think that's kind of the direction we pulled out like a rainbow flag and decided we made a whole thing of it. So it was, it was very progressive. It was a very, let's make this as as progressive a cat as we can, which was fun,

[35:51] Speaker 2: fun way to, like, take a show that's been around for a long time and give it not like major to where you're gonna anger the true fans, just enough to, like, still have, like, some personal, yeah, some personality from your your cast too well.

[36:06] Speaker 3: That was kind of the crazy thing is that when, obviously, when they announced that we were going to be doing cats next year, like none of us were excited. All of us were quite upset. But about a week into rehearsal, we realized this was going to be the most fun show we ever had the chance to do, and it was we had such a fun time doing the show. It was so and we all committed so much that was the biggest part, is that all of us truly did our best to commit to the to the full scope of being a cat. We had many days talking about cat posture, cat technique and all these different and we were, we were dead serious about it. We kept each other honest with it, and we had a great time. We really did. I loved it. That was my favorite show I did at Elon. That's not even a joke. I really had such a fun time doing it. That's

[36:58] Speaker 2: that's so fun. And I think you have to commit when you're doing it. You gotta go all in. So before I do my rapid fire, I want to ask one more. Where do you think? Because I know you, you had opinions on this. Where do you think Chris bell goes when she leaves? You said to another litter. Is that what you said? I thought that's what you said already. I

[37:22] Speaker 3: can't remember. I can't remember what. Like, no, and just like, yeah, just now, just now, oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. When she leaves the family, she goes to start another litter, like she she cheats, she goes to start another family, she cheats on me, and has a whole other cat family, um, and then tries to come back, because she realizes it was wrong, so she and that's, that's the messiness of grizzy in our story, because, then, because, then she leaves the family she created to come back to her OG family. And we're like, no, and then you leave her. Then I reward her by letting her go to the heavy side. She apology. Her memory is her apology.

[38:03] Speaker 2: So I think 2000 I think she's like, Grizabella is, I don't know what the year was. I'm John blank now, but she was the shaved head Brittany. And like, she, that's what happened. She, she was like, she kind of, did she something went off the rail. She was, you know, she was the star. The superstar. Had everything, right? Something went off the rails. So she kind of disappeared. She kind of left. There's some problems, you know, whether it's drugs or whatever it was. And then this was her, like, she got her life back in order. And that's why she comes back. And I think she comes back the first time, not back in order, you know, it was like, the right probably, like that first Vegas show, and it was like, stuff wasn't really back together, but like, we're gonna do it anyways. And then it's like, now, now we're back. And that's like, when she felt memory, yeah, yeah,

[38:53] Speaker 3: I, I agree with that. I think that's a, I think that's 100% correct. But your,

[39:00] Speaker 2: your group took such a, such a an intense look at this. You like, said, Hey, she's gonna go, go have a second family, and then she's gonna ditch that family and come back.

[39:10] Speaker 3: We were like, What will social workers see and go, Yes, I love this show. And that was the plot we Yeah. Like,

[39:18] Speaker 2: a lot of true crime, like we can make this the true crime podcast. Yeah, you have a husband killing a wife, you have a disappearing family. You got a lot going on. A lot going

[39:31] Speaker 3: on. I don't think dysfunctional is the correct word, but it's a lot. There's, there's a lot of stuff to figure out. Yeah,

[39:40] Speaker 3: in the middle of Elon, North Carolina. You've got to solve all

[39:44] Speaker 2: of the world's problems there. All right, let's do some. A couple rapid fire. And I have, I've thought through a lot of these, so I'm happy to kind of talk, talk through them with you. So if you were not going to be Old Deuteronomy, what other cat would you want to play?

[40:03] Speaker 2: Narrator, other second you're not first in charge. You won't be second in charge. I won't

[40:08] Speaker 3: be second in charge. I still want to be in charge. I also would have, I think Buster for Jones is hilarious. And then you got to do Peter and St Peter, which I would have done, I would have liked to have done, like a multi track that would have been fun with that for sure,

[40:28] Speaker 2: what is your favorite and least favorite cat? And it can be from your production, not person, but the actual cat.

[40:35] Speaker 3: My my favorite cat is Jelly Lorem. I love jelly Lorem. I think she's just so sweet. And I love, I love what jelly Lorem was in our production. Like, I mean, she's usually Gus caretaker, but jelly Lorem was kind of just like everyone's like mother figure. Like, she was just a very sweet, very kind

[40:56] Speaker 2: person. She gives up her chance to perform, which is like super, which I think is just so being an amazing Yeah, it's

[41:18] Speaker 2: Alanzo, yeah, young brothers, basically, yeah,

[41:26] Speaker 2: alanzo Does, in a lot of cases, dances like both of those them dance, potentially with Victoria during her, like, coming of age. Ah, so that's it. I really also think he just, like, they made up characters and names because they were like they want to do in the beginning and ending, a lot of cats on stage, and so it's just like we need some ensemble characters to just do it.

[41:48] Speaker 3: I'm saying the wrong cat, because now I'm thinking Alan Our alanzo was definitely Victoria's partner, and that if that's the cat that I'm thinking of, that's a different cat. And I actually don't have a problem with this cat. Maybe it's not corical Pat, but there's two. There's like two kittens,

[42:09] Speaker 2: sisters, there's syllabo and tanta mile and a couple others. Are insignificant to arguments. I know very little about them. I couldn't. I've always joked if you put Alonzo in a line of all the cats, I couldn't tell you which one was which. I couldn't tell you which one,

[42:29] Speaker 3: uh, syllabub was art was the one who would sing the memory reprieve. Yes, that. So I love syllable. It's tanta mile. That's who it is. So

[42:39] Speaker 2: I think that's a twin with Corp cat, maybe, I don't know. There's a lot. I

[42:43] Speaker 3: think that's what it is. Coracle, patent, tantamaya, both of them, I useless. What

[42:53] Speaker 3: Um, funny enough. Like performing. What was my favorite skimble Shanks performance, the part that I remember very vividly being turned you on the movie that I was like, this is one, but it was actually the one I had the most fun performing. And it was also because I just sat on the steps and watched everybody. So you just got to watch him do it. I just got to watch him do it while I clapped. That was I love doing that. I also love the Jellicle Ball. I love the Jellicle Ball. I think it's actually such a fun number. I love it musically, and I loved what we were able to do with it, and our our production, old dude got to dance a lot in it. So I had a lot of fun doing that.

[43:38] Speaker 2: That's cool, that's that's not usually brought up that much, and then it is kind of weird when you're just like, yeah, weird when you're just like, Yeah, I love the orgy. The orgy was my favorite part of

[43:49] Speaker 2: if Alexander Hamilton and James Madison were cats, oh,

[43:53] Speaker 3: Lord, okay. Who would they be? James Madison would be Gus, that's for sure. And then Alexander, Hamilton, you know, that's actually really funny, because he would either be, he would either be Macavity or monkey strap.

[44:21] Speaker 2: So I yeah, I get it. I get it. I had him or Madison as either Gus or Old Deuteronomy. I just thought, like, Father Constitution has got to be one of the old guys, 100 there. But I had Hamilton as moncus trap because, like, with him being with everything you do with the Treasury. I figured, if

[44:42] Speaker 3: any cat is handling the money, now, you're right. I got that. I'll definitely take that, but I can see where, what's your Macavity argument? My Macavity argument is that he will do whatever it takes to just get what he wants. It also depends on, like, as a cat, what does Hamilton want to accomplish? Because if. Hamilton is just being Hamilton. You know his he has so many different avenues, but when you make Hamilton a cat, that automatically limits what his purposes in life come into being. And so if it comes from a purely survival mode, I feel like, I feel like Macavity is a very liable option, if it's just survival, especially from when after he gets off the island,

[45:31] Speaker 2: yeah, he'll break every, every law possible to make it happen, just to make it I get it. And then last one, if you were quarantining with a cat. Which one would you want to quarantine with?

[45:44] Speaker 3: Oh, if I was quarantining with a cat, who would I quarantine with? Personality is going to be best for you? Um, probably jelly. Probably I need a calm presence. Yeah, it would probably, it would probably be

[46:02] Speaker 2: jelly. I think you're one of the first people that said jelly, but you're right. Like, your reasoning makes a ton of sense,

[46:07] Speaker 3: yeah? Just like, just like, calm, just like, nice and calm. Has anyone said Demeter or bomby? Um,

[46:17] Speaker 2: not that I can think of. Oh, well, I think somebody might have said it in terms of who they would want to play, but it was like they're also their best friend, like in the production with them. I see, I think it was a little skewed. A lot of the answers are mistoolies, just high energy magic. Be fun.

[46:36] Speaker 3: That's too much. I can't do that in close quarters. That would drive me crazy. Who

[46:40] Speaker 2: knows what you're quarantining with? You could be in a mansion like that, which is why I've argued Buster, because you're gonna eat well, probably gonna have any money, probably gonna have a lot of space.

[46:49] Speaker 3: You're actually very that's a good that's an astute observation. I absolutely never would have considered buster. Everyone's always

[46:57] Speaker 2: thinking about I every time I talk to Broadway, it's like, you're in your New York apartment. You're like, Where would I want to hang with this horseman? With this? And as I've been quarantining part of the time, not in New York, I'm like, you know, there's, there's some space out here outside of Manhattan, like we could have some fun with somebody, right?

[47:16] Speaker 2: all right. So we've already answered the most important question. Was your team? Gus, yeah. My, my last question is just always, how do we, you know, how do we get in touch with you? What else are you working on? Social media handles like, how can people find you? Oh,

[47:31] Speaker 3: man, I'm mostly on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at first 95 which is F, E R, G, s, t, e r s9, five. Yeah. I mean, as far as what I'm working on, you know, I'm mostly just trying to get through the days and doing a lot of writing I do, in addition to being actor, writer, director, I'm also a puppeteer. I do puppet stuff. I'm just now kind of starting to use social media to get some of my puppet stuff out there as I start to conceptualize a little bit more and produce some more content for stuff. But hopefully within the next year or so, I'll be able to have a place where people can see all of my puppet stuff. But yeah, man, just right now I'm just kind of waiting things out and just doing my best to get through the days. You know what I mean. But, um, yeah, come follow me and come be foolish with me on social media. I use social media for foolishness, pretty much what should be, should be for fun. For fun, exactly. Yeah,

[48:32] Speaker 2: I'm not we're not influenced. I'm not influencing anybody with some, you know, some content here. So it should all be a good time, right? Exactly. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for for joining me and being an amazing guest. It was so fun to hear about your your production had what a I wish I could have seen it. What a ride, because it was an experience. I hope someone boot liked it, someone's in there, in the audience. It's out

[48:55] Speaker 3: there somewhere. Oh, I'm sure it's out there somewhere. Awesome. If I find it, I got you, yeah, if you find

[49:00] Speaker 2: it, send it my way. That would be my next plane ride. I'll put it up to my iPad, and I'll have equally amount of people staring at me, being like, why is this guy watching cats?

[49:09] Speaker 3: What is he doing? Yeah, I got you. I got you. Oh my gosh. Well, thanks for having me, man. I had a great time. There's a lot of fun. You. Thanks

[49:24] Speaker 2: for listening to this episode with Fergie l Philippe on the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown of the cat. Sash free to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died, or check out our website, the wrong cat diet.com you.