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[0:13] Speaker 1: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the one good night. I'm the one good night. I welcome to

[0:30] Speaker 2: the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown of the cat. Sasha fee, I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing episode. You may remember him from the live at broadwaycon Cats debate. Or you might know him for his incredible photography business, or as the creator of the dressing room project, which is a photographic Journal of actors prepping for the roles on Broadway. Or maybe from one of his other two podcasts, dear multi hyphenate, or my Broadway memory and all these other things he does. But none of that matters today, because what matters is that his high school production of Cats might be one of the most elaborate things I've ever heard of. So welcome Michael Kushner, and thank you for joining me.

[1:07] Speaker 3: Hi. I'm so excited because, let me tell you, you like fulfilled a doing the live the live show at Broadway. Oh, my God, my phone Jesus, doing the live show at Broadway con with Nancy Opal and Tommy Brock. And just like legends, I literally was like, I can't believe I was asked to do this. I'm like, I'm I'm sitting up. First of all, Nancy Opel, I did on the town with her at Barrington stage in the pre Broadway tryout for the revival, the 2014 revival. And I was geeking out about her, because in my in high school, we were obsessed with Nancy Opal, because when we were doing cats, we knew that we found out that our next year's show is going to be Urinetown. So while we were doing cats, we were also like belting privilege to pee, and like trying to impersonate Nancy Opel. So like the fact that I was sitting on this panel with Nancy Opel talking about cats was mind blowing to me. So thank you for that.

[2:17] Speaker 2: I love that because it just also really highlights how different you and I are. Because when Nancy and Tommy and everyone who was was added to the panel, was like, brought up to me, I'm like, I think I know who they are. It was like, it wasn't like, a the obsession, because I'm not that super fan that knows a ton about Broadway. So it's like, oh, I you know, if it hadn't happened in the past four years when I've lived in New York, it's probably fairly faint of my knowledge on it, and so I was excited to have you on the panel, because I knew you had strong opinions about the show so and I knew from the other people either were in the show or did not know anything about it, which is what I was looking for. I wanted people that knew nothing about cats to come in that had a good sense of humor, like Nancy and Tommy. Then I wanted ger and Christine and people who were in the show to kind of balance you and I as being the additional like, hey, let's round this out. Let's get a debate going. Yes, we had a blast. It's a great I think

[3:16] Speaker 3: we would consider us catfishing autos. So, you know, I had a, I had a, I had a blast doing it. I mean, I remember, like, you had a great audience, too. And I remember when I was taking notes, I heard these two girls, like, in the third row go, Oh, my God, he's so serious. Because I was like, I because I was ready to like, I was ready to to to debate. I was ready to state my, my, my claim, like I was ready you

[3:46] Speaker 2: had, you had a legitimate argument, like, you made your case, whereas Nancy and Tommy just, like, made stuff up. Yeah, they had no idea. Which was great. It was a great balance. It was really super fun, a great event that I hope happens, you know, again soon, but yeah, let's talk before we go to your high school production, which is where we're gonna spend most of our time today, tell me about your cast history. Did you love it before high school? Or were you really introduced to it when you got to perform it?

[4:12] Speaker 3: I saw a national tour of it, um, with my mom, and it was before it was like that. That time, I guess I can't. I don't know if I had ever realized that performing was ever I don't know if I ever knew that performing was not a job, because my grandma was a community theater actor in Long Island, and that at the JCC in like, the 80s, and what they used to do was like, not get the rights to the shows, but do like Fiddler on the roof and rename Fiddler on the roof to like peddler on the stoop, so no one knew what it was. And like, I'm trying to think of other shows like Bye Bye Birdie was like Conrad exclam. Nation point or, like, sweet apple, you know what I mean, like DVD

[5:03] Speaker 2: you buy off the street from the bootleg guy with a different name,

[5:08] Speaker 3: 100% but I so, I guess I always knew that they were jobs, but I was young. My first show I ever saw was river dance. That was the first like show. And then I saw the Titanic national tour, and then I saw the cats national tour. And I guess I was about eight or nine when I saw cats. And, um, I remember, I remember being like, they're like, cats is very polarizing for so many people, like, where they're like, I hated it, or I was fascinated, or like, I had no idea what's going on, but I remember the cats running into the audience with the green eyes shining at us the intro, right? And that's sort of like, yeah, in during Yeah, and during the overture, angelical cats. And like, I was, like, fascinated, didn't have any idea what was going on, but like, enjoyed it thoroughly, and then, like, destroyed the VHS because I, like, couldn't stop watching it. So

[6:05] Speaker 2: that's okay, so that's perfect. So you saw it as a kid, you loved it. You kind of got in tune. And then you get this opportunity to do it in high school, yeah, so let's talk about that. So here's what I know, and we're going to cover all these things. Okay, so you've told me that it cost $44,000

[6:25] Speaker 2: a normal high school production cost for a show. I have no, I have no frame of reference here,

[6:29] Speaker 3: probably anywhere from, like, depending on the school, because there are some areas in the country where there's no Art Theater. Yeah, no theater. So, like, you know, first of all, we had the 3000 building at American heritage school was the theater. So it was a private school. I should back up and talk about the area where I'm from. I'm from Fort Lauderdale, where Arts is alive. It is a very bizarre area, but the arts is, it is pretty alive. And there's regional theaters, equity houses, museums, dance troupes, choir like, every like, everywhere, like, I was raised surrounded by the arts. And start and started performing 20 years ago this year, actually, and um, and so the the after school programs, the performing arts after school programs that I would be a part of, I mean, it was like at Coral Springs Institute for the Performing Arts. It was hundreds of kids that I was doing theater with, not like 2020 it was hundreds, it was amazing. It was amazing. And there were a lot of groups like that around in Fort Lauderdale. So then I went to a performing arts well. It was a private high school. I was on full scholarship, and I don't want to say it was a performing arts high school. It was a school that sort of excelled in everything they did was, like, you want there for sports, or you want there to get into MIT or Yale or Harvard, or you went there for performing arts, or you went there for fine art, like everything that you went there and specialized for, like it was, it was an exciting time and but the thing about that is Is every high school around in the area was really, really, really good at performing arts as well, so it was very competitive. And now I'm a judge at Florida State Thespians, which is, like my, one of my favorite things to do. And because I can, we all competed in that together. We all Hi. My name is Michael Cohen performing I want to go home from big and I proudly represent troop 3814, you did the song, you got critiqued. And if you got Critics Choice, you performed in front of everyone. And it was amazing. So ever so, even if there wasn't money involved, there was still the theater was really good. So, American heritage, we had three theaters in our building. We had the studio theater, we had the black box, and we had the main stage. And the main stage, I think, was, I think if it was in New York, it would be, it would definitely be considered a Broadway house, because it was more than 599 seats. My first show I ever did at the Carl spring Center for the Arts, that was a touring house that was a 2000 seater so I was honey. I'm used to playing the big houses, but, but seriously, like it was, it was a big house. When it wasn't an auditorium. We had hydraulics like it was, it was a theater. So there's money involved, right? There was money involved. But then, like other shows that had talent would do it on their cafeteria, like, pull out stage and do great work. But it varied like money varies sort of with high school. And I feel like you could do like a like a production for like $500 but then you could also spend. Like a couple foul

[10:02] Speaker 2: see again, like this is where I have no frame of reference, because where I'm from in the Midwest, we have nine of the 10 largest high school basketball arenas in the country around me, and so I have a very good idea of how much they spend on that sport. But since I was never in high school theater, never watched really high school theater. Saw the national tours that came through the city. But like, I don't know if we spent at my school $100 $1,000 $0 I honestly don't even know if we did plays. I don't remember. I'm sure we did because I went to a school that that did prioritize the arts. But I again, like, I saw 44,000 I was, like, that seems really high for high school. That seems like a high budget, yeah.

[10:48] Speaker 3: But the thing is, is, like, we had that budget. We had, we had, I mean, our shop, like our shop alone was massive. It was like two stories of shop space, and we had dressing rooms, and we had, because we had it, we were connected to an equity house too. So, like the the, I mean, it had equity standard, like facilities. So, I mean, in Urinetown, we had the that production of Urinetown was done. It was Broadway characters stuck in Urinetown. So like hope was actually Mary Poppins and I was tiny Tom, but I was actually Simba from The Lion King, and like Mrs. Lovett was gave that away Penny. Penny wise was Mrs. Lovett and Bobby was curly. And hope, when she entered hope, Gladwell, she was Mary Poppins. She flew in. And we had the full we had a full installed, rented fly system that was like, she can, like, go back and forth and move around, and she flew in so and also our set was a hydraulic like I at the top of that too, like came up from the stage. So

[12:06] Speaker 2: it sounds like you went to the school from step up. I did.

[12:10] Speaker 3: I did. I went. I it was, yes, I did. That's gonna

[12:18] Speaker 2: be my frame of reference for this. Okay, so the second piece that I really want to dig into is that you didn't have a junkyard. You didn't have the this the standard ish set. You had a world war two bombed out cathedral as the backdrop of your of your musical.

[12:35] Speaker 3: Yeah. So we like to do shows that, like our Director, Jim Usher, would like to give it a little spin. And cats was done in World War Two and a bombed out cathedral, and it was beautiful. I mean, the stained glass was like in the Cathedral, the stained glass was cat eyes, like hidden and like it was, it was really amazing, and it was stained glass, and the light was beautiful. And this set was like a jungle gym, basically, I remember crawling through all of these different like pathways to get to certain places, and it was a bombed out cathedral. Now, for instance, you know, in the top of in the top of the show during Jellicle cats on Queens of the night, you know that part the choir part. You know when a shoe falls down, right? Yep, instead of a shoe falling it was a dud bomb,

[13:56] Speaker 3: I know which was World War Two. I mean, it was a dud bomb. And then just like jelly Lorem or someone, just like, kind of like,

[14:08] Speaker 2: so did you change other parts of the musical to be World War Two theme? Because I definitely have thought about this. Now, since you told me this, I have some thoughts on how we can adjust this story to be more. You know, 1940s

[14:21] Speaker 3: I should watch the DVD. I have to find the DVD. But this

[14:25] Speaker 2: is film. You have. You have a videography budget, I'm sure.

[14:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, it was filmed, and I could, we could do a viewing of it. But there are a few things that come to mind. One was when Grizz goes up to the heavy side layer instead of the tire. You may be asking, What did Grizz fly on? Well, Grizz flew on the altar, the altar in the bombed out cathedral rose into the heavy side. There, and it was done Elphaba cherry picker style. We had a cherry picker on stage disguised with the altar, and it fully flew up into the sky with Grizz just like on it. And then that blackout, where she's supposed to disappear, she just like, goes into the altar, and it looks like she just like, is like, disappears into the heavy side there. So that's one. Then there was the whole pyrotechnic element. There were, there, there were, there were flashes, just like Joseph. There were flashes of of light, like there was, um, Michaela Mancuso, who played Jenny? Any dots? I remember it was either final dress or, like, opening. It was like, she's tapping her little tush off, and there's like, Flash, pyrotechnic bomb. And she's just like, it's like, Thank you, my dears hit. She catches on fire and she is like, on fire when we have to, like, put her out or something like that. It was just wild, wild.

[16:08] Speaker 2: When you told me about that the fire for Gene edits, I thought maybe you were trying to exterminate the mice and rats or in cockroaches.

[16:15] Speaker 3: Oh, that's funny. I mean, who I don't know. I have to remember, like, I think there might be more specific things that were World War Two, but those are the three things that really kind of stick out in my mind. Is the bomb, the the altar, and then the pyrotechnics in, in Jenny, any dots?

[16:38] Speaker 2: So this is where I like to live, which is this type of absurdity, yeah. Okay, now let's, let's write the show as a, you know, war musical. So I've done, I've done some thinking about this. Oh, my God, who do you think? Who would that make Old Deuteronomy? Because I think there's three choices. Like, how do you now turn this into a a war film? I guess it would be Churchill, right? So I thought Churchill, but you could also argue Truman, FDR, Eisenhower,

[17:11] Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting. I mean, yeah, yeah, it's kind of interesting. And then what is Macavity, fucking Hitler,

[17:19] Speaker 2: I had, I have that written, that could be it. And then, if that's the case, then some of his followers are Mongol Jerry rebel. Teaser,

[17:30] Speaker 3: interesting. What is that? Like Goebbels and like, but they're not evil. Like Goebbels, I would say, like, I don't know. Like, it's interesting because, like you, you make a you make an interesting point. Mongo, Jerry ruffle teaser, are macavities followers. They're,

[17:49] Speaker 2: they're technically his children, I think, and they're the also, and they're not that evil. They're more mischievous, mischievous than evil. And that's why, honestly, calling the cavity Hitler seems like also pushing a lot further than, like, his level of evil than it should be. I had Churchill as busted for Jones. Just seems like it fits better, like it kind of, honestly, maybe it's just because I I compared them in my bus for episode. Anyways, it just seems like kind of a jolly old British guy, and like to start. So that's one that I I think could be there, but I think here's the one that that really got me is the awful battle of the peaks and potholes. Uh huh. Is that the invasion of Poland?

[18:37] Speaker 3: Okay? Two things. One, hysterical. Two we didn't do peaks and follicles, because in the licensed version, I don't think, I think it's, I don't think it's in there,

[18:50] Speaker 2: see that's, that's where, I don't know. I just it's, it's kind of a weird little subplot of the story, anyways, where there's just, like, talking about fighting a dog, right? Yeah, to amuse Old Deuteronomy, but the whole point is that it's a, it's a battle,

[19:09] Speaker 3: right? And that's kind of interesting, like that you're that you're talking about, like, it's an invasion of, I mean, like the mangatarian rebels are always reminding me of, like the tenardiers and Les Mis right, like, in the musical, The tenardiers aren't evil or like, or are they're, they're terrible, sure, like, whatever, like, they're, they're the, they're the villains of the story. And, you know, they always rise on top. Like, that's sort of the thing. It's like, that's their message. It's like, but in the book, they're evil, they're they're awful, they're not good, they're not good people. And, um, the musical pokes fun at that, which I love, and I feel like that's sort of like a mango cherry rumple teaser thing where it's like, the musical, they add, you. A, you know, a comedic element to the show. They're the rabble rousing cats, and then, you know, they're doing the cartwheel. So I don't think that they're like, I wouldn't if we cavity, I don't think Macavity would be Hitler compared to Hitler. If

[20:16] Speaker 2: I didn't really think this boils down to is that you decided, or your director decided to go World War Two, and it's an already loose plot, and so I would have just owned it and really on for it, and said, like, Look, if we're gonna change the set, let's, let's really make some changes. And they did some of them. And

[20:40] Speaker 3: it's not like we're like, shy of the swastika or anything we did the producers two years later, and we and I was, I was Roger debris. I was fully Hitler. Like, there's one, there's one point in the video where I watch it back and I'm giving Springtime for Hitler, and the way that I move in one of the moments in Springtime for Hitler, my hair goes a certain way, and with the mustache and everything, I look like Hitler. And my mom also said something about it too. She was like, You look like Hitler. It's like, I know it's not that's not great, but I did win an award for it. So, it's,

[21:20] Speaker 2: I mean, I do think it's performing arts. You are, you know, this is also a little bit of parody. Like, there's, there's that there, not condemning the actions. So, and that's where I, like, when I heard this, I was like, All right, this is what I think. But like, I don't know if I really want to say McCabe is Hitler. Like, that's a pretty far stretch for for him, even though that that does fit the World War Two narrative. That's

[21:42] Speaker 3: interesting, because I don't think that there's like a Hitler comparison in cats, like trying to think of someone in the

[21:53] Speaker 2: like that bad in the you know, like, Macavity is your antagonist, but he's really not that terrible. He kind of captures what is most likely his brother or his dad, and then there's, like, this kind of, like little half assed fight, and then he's done, and he loses, and that's it. It's not like he and then in the new movie, they kind of almost made him with, you know, Idris Alba. It wasn't even that evil. It didn't feel that evil. Was just kind of strange.

[22:22] Speaker 3: Would you say, like, um, would you say like, uh, Macavity could represent, not like an expat, but like someone that, like, didn't like, like, didn't support the British Empire, like someone that, like, left, escaped, or something like that. And so could, I mean, it could probably be that sort of comparison, not so much. But

[22:50] Speaker 3: um, I mean, grizzabel is more of just like a, I feel like Macavity, if we're talking about this, in World War Two, mccaviddy made an active choice to be like, I'm anti British. I'm bad, you know? But Grizabella was sort of like, she was just sort of like a little diva. And everyone was like, Wait, you're not, you're not that hot. And you know what I mean? And I feel like that's like, I'm trying to think of now who grisavello could represent in history. That's like

[23:23] Speaker 2: we've devoted too much, too much time to World War Two, knowing that you did, that your group didn't even go into this as deeply as I would have hoped. No,

[23:32] Speaker 3: I unless we did, and it's like something I don't even remember. But, I mean, I have, I do have pictures from cats, but I should find, I should get the video for you, because it's, I mean, it's really epic. It's really epic.

[23:49] Speaker 2: I would love to watch it. I'm now, I'm now being offered, there's been a handful of versions now that I do want to see that are taped. And I don't know if I'm going to run out of times I'm going to be able to sit through cats anymore in my life, but I do want to talk now about the show because, because I think we got to get off the World War Two. We got to move on. And your production was, I mean, more than everything you want, it's got, you know, fire. It's the everything is fine meme. That's what's happening in your production. Everything around you is on fire. It's a little bit, little bit offset. But again, incredible, incredible show.

[24:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, honestly, it was good. And here's one quick little story before we go. I was the type of school where, like, we so basically we all the hair. The school had a makeup department, and I wound up taking the class my senior year, and I loved it, but every cat had a makeup artist.

[24:54] Speaker 3: didn't do our own hair and wig and makeup or anything. We sat down and we got our face. Is painted and by by the makeup classes. So, like, it was like, maybe it came out perfectly wherever, like one person had one person. So it was great. It was just so good. And, and so there's something called Cappies, which is a like the Tonys, but for South Florida theater, high school theater and cats was nominated for a bunch of things, and we were looking at the time of setup and the night, and we realized that we would not be able to have enough dressing room space where we could get ready backstage. So we showed up full unitard, full hair, full makeup as cats to the ceremony and did the red carpet. And like, entered, like, just full full costume, full cats. And it was great. And I my friends still talk about, like, from other schools, they still bring it up to this day that it was one of the funniest things they'd ever seen in their life. Did you win? Yeah, we won for stuff, um, I don't remember what we won for, but, like, we won for best makeup. We probably, definitely won for makeup, but we also probably won for musical or musical number or direction or something like that. Stage design, yeah, yeah. We definitely won for stuff, all kinds

[26:29] Speaker 2: of stuff. Oh, yeah, okay, let's talk about the non South was South Florida, musical number of this. Let's talk about the the revival or the original production. Uh huh, I know you have very strong opinions on it, yes. So I've obviously debated a lot of different things. I've made up a lot of stuff. I've read a lot of stuff where, like, what is your take on the musical? Like, give me just your hot takes. Like, where have I either been wrong, or what have I nailed? As the Broadway outsider talking about cats,

[27:08] Speaker 3: I'm going to be very honest with you, I think cats is sort of a do what you think I mean, sort of a situation. I think that we have to be in a certain state of mind anyway to accept the conceit that it's a bunch of human beings dressed as cats dancing and telling the story. You know what I mean? Like in no way are we going to walk into the Broadway or the no the Winter Garden, excuse me, the Winter Garden or the Neil Simon, and go, it better be cats this time. You know what I mean? Like, like, I want actual felines, and if it's not, I'm not accepting this revival. You know what I mean? Like, no one's gonna be doing that. So I think that boils down to like, the experience that we choose, like, whether or not the audience, like someone shows up, like, a few drinks in, or like a little stoned, or like, ready to, like, dissect this and compare it to the original, whatever it is. I think everyone is on its own journey, like even doing the show. There were things where I was like, what is that lyric? Like, not even hearing that lyric until, like, closing night. Like, I think everyone is on their journey, and no matter how you approach cats, I think that it's like a, and I think it's also a money maker too, right? Like, it's sort of like a, oh yeah, see it. See it again. What did you miss last time? Oh, for

[28:37] Speaker 2: sure. I mean, it is one of the highest grossing musicals of all time, I believe,

[28:41] Speaker 3: and I think that's why it's one of the money I think that's why it's a money makers, because people are probably like, I can't believe what I saw. I actually have no idea what I saw. And I need to see I have to bring you with me. We have to see this together, you know? I mean,

[28:55] Speaker 2: yeah, I think there's been a couple people that have made compelling arguments about this too, about how, like with tourism and Broadway, it's a show that doesn't need, you don't need any background or any I mean, you honestly don't even need to speak English to understand like you can kind of follow along, no matter who you are, where you are, or what you're thinking, which is, I think, also part of it, and it is something that has a Little bit of a allure to it, because, like, the reason I saw it the first time was I heard it was being revived, and everyone's like, I was like, Oh, that it was that and Phantom were the two that I was like, I've got us. I gotta see these. Probably on Broadway. Like those feel like the ones that's like, are classics, or just things that you should experience and but that, like, that was in that realm, not some of the other things that have been amazing recently, that it's like you should go see, but they've had their runs. This is like, that historic, you know, it's like seeing something from that just everyone speaks about. So I think that's very true, but it's also the weirdest thing i. Ever seen in my life.

[30:01] Speaker 3: It's the weirdest it's the weirdest thing. It's the weirdest thing, but it's also beautiful. Like, it's visually stunning. And the way that you're talking about how, like, people don't necessarily need to speak English to understand it. I mean, like, think about, like, with, with what's his face? Quack. So, singing, dancing parts, misto police. Thank you. It's like, misto police, right? It's a big magic number. So it's like, visual, and it gives it's the audience, you know? And that's basically the whole show. It's like, you know, when the road the tap dancing roaches come on and like, and it's just we all sort of, and then there are things that kind of convince us of the conceit. And it's like the boot dropping down and remembering that, like the boot is, why is the boot so big? Oh, that's right, they're cats, you know, yeah. So it's kind of, you know, that's kind of, I believe it, though it's really funny. When I saw the revival, I was really excited, just because I actually really like cats and I really like the music, like and it was also a time where, like, I had friends in the show. I had just Hendy and Megan Ort. Megan ort was in my class at Ithaca, and we did Legally Blonde together. She was my el woods. And next thing you know, she's singing memory on a Broadway stage, because she was the second understudy for Grizz. And I went for her first performance, and I photographed her backstage, prepping for it as well, for dressing room project. And it was just so wild. It was amazing and wild to see it. But like, also, there was, like, new orchestrations in the revival, which I loved. There was that drum. There was a new drum in this revival that just like, got me really tapping my feet, really into it. And I like that a lot.

[31:51] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's my only frame of reference, is the revival and the VHS, because that's all I've really seen. And that's, that's what's kind of fun for me is I've talked to a lot of that cast, and it's all it's great because it was my two viewings live. Was the last preview, or second to last preview, I think, and then a year, exactly a year later, I saw Mamie and a lot of the new when they had their turnover in year two. And so it's like, that's it. So when everyone's like, yeah, do you remember this was the change, and I sure, but that's all I know.

[32:24] Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I look, I think that the I think that the show is great, like I have a lot of fun whenever I go see it. And honestly, there is a, there is truth, I think, to that sentence that everyone says that cats is much more fun to do than it is to see. And whenever I listen to that cast album, I am transported to doing the Jellicle Ball choreography. And like getting so so into it. And like, being so excited about, like the dinner, like there's nothing like, and like the lights change, and just like that orchestra, and just, it's just so fun, like, it's such a fun show to do, to just be a cat and dance and like, be weird. Yeah, you're

[33:24] Speaker 3: yeah, 100% I mean, it's really, it's, I think it's a great show. So

[33:30] Speaker 2: let's do some rapid fire. Yes. So first of all, who did you play in your production? Guaxo, okay, if you got to be anybody you wanted, who would you want to play? Mongo, Jerry. Mongo, Jerry. And give the give us some reason

[33:45] Speaker 3: because, um, he's so close to genardi, and tonight is my dream role. Okay,

[33:53] Speaker 3: Oh, um, favorite cat, I think, is Jenny, any dots, just because she's so Bumbly and fun and just like tapping, we love her least favorite cat, I think is probably Macavity, because I don't need Macavity. Like, I usually love the evil characters. But for some reason, whenever I'm like, whenever he comes on stage, I'm sort of like, fast forward. I like singing about Macavity, but I don't know, yeah, the Macavity

[34:19] Speaker 2: song is amazing. Yeah, that's a great song. Okay, so that is favorite song,

[34:26] Speaker 3: favorite song, aside from, like, the opening, because I can really jam out to the opening to Jellicle cats, I love Gus.

[34:35] Speaker 2: Gus is not usually said his favorite song. It's

[34:39] Speaker 3: a tear jerker for me. It really is emotional. If you listen to the lyrics and like, think about a cat, like, if you like, think about like, say, like, like, telling the story of if an actual cat to that, to that melody and to those lyrics, like, oh, that's gorgeous.

[34:59] Speaker 2: Yeah. It is a very somber and heartwarming moment in a very awkward place of right after intermission.

[35:08] Speaker 3: Yes, 100% but I love the song. I love the song. If

[35:12] Speaker 2: you had to quarantine with a cat, which one would you want to quarantine with which character?

[35:19] Speaker 3: Oh, probably monkey strap, because he would be like, Come on, let's go on an adventure. Let's, like, do something fine, because I feel like I can get sedentary, like, Buster for Jones. That's,

[35:35] Speaker 2: see, that's been my answer. I was like, let's just chill, eat well, live in your mansion. Buster for I think it'd be a good life.

[35:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah. Buster knows what's up. Okay,

[35:44] Speaker 2: last one, there's a thing called Cats tumbler, which I've been educated on, where fans take on cats and write as them back and forth with other fans as if they're in other scenarios. So human scenarios are like everyday life scenarios. So if you could take over writing as a cat on Tumblr, which cat would you want to write for?

[36:10] Speaker 3: I think I would write for quack. So because I was once him, and I know and I once lived in his body, so I know exactly where he's coming from. And I played him as the diva cat, like he's like, the new Griz. And I had my my hair was a mohawk. And I remember I just like, you know when he sings there, I'm Tom tug, or as a terrible bore. I remember I like, came and did my Mohawk. So I probably like, I would probably write about how a fierce, gay cat like myself is enjoying London post Blitz,

[36:48] Speaker 2: I can say that I feel like you could have some fun with that. Yeah, that's so fun. See, I'd write my cavity.

[36:59] Speaker 2: be the asshole and the bad guy in every scenario. Like, I think that's right. I think, you know, it's a, it's a personality type I'm not normally and so it'd be fun to kind of be able to take on that

[37:09] Speaker 3: persona. I love that. So, like, how is it like they assign each other? Like, do they just, like, today I'm writing about, like, going to the grocery store. Like, my

[37:17] Speaker 2: understanding is their profiles. I actually am not super familiar with Tumblr, but I think they're profiles, and you like, almost right back and forth as like, it's like a thread. And so they own, they these fans, own different profiles, and it's like, I'm going to get on and then they kind of, I think they're all friends, you know? I think, like, they're people that have become a community, and they will just have a someone will start the conversation, and they'll all kind of jump in. That's my interpretation of it. It seems like, again, it's one of those things that's where cats fandom, and just like the fascination of cats, is so much more than just this, like musical is that there's these things that live outside that that are, you know, fairly wholesome and just people who are who enjoyed the community, enjoyed like, the writing, enjoyed everything, and have taken a way to interact together, yeah,

[38:10] Speaker 3: like, honestly, when it comes to community like, that's why we do it right as we is, we want to engage, and we want to promote community like, as long As no one's hurting each other or engaging in, like, illegal activity where, like, they're harming each other and stuff like that, then like, live your life. Like, communicate with people, especially during the pandemic. Like, do what you do, what you need to do in order to, like, feel that you are part of the world around you, no matter, no matter what it is like if you're going to go on tumblr and be and sort of, I guess, role play as cats. Like, go for it, like, tell that story. Like Andrew Lloyd Webber is happy because, you know, I like, who doesn't want their musical being talked about and explored like that. That's exciting. It reminds me

[39:02] Speaker 2: a little bit of sports fandom, which is very similar. And it's like, you've got your community, you've got your thing, and it's a lot too. So it's like, how different is this? Really? No,

[39:14] Speaker 3: it's not. It's not. And, like, really cool stuff happens out of it. Like, there was the, you know, I don't think it was, it was like a fan. It comes out of fandom. But like things, when we love certain things, when we enjoy certain things, we can it educates us enough, where we can create something with that. So, like, there was the that musical that was written twisted, which was about, like, the wicked, but of Jafar and like, that's fucking cool, you know. Like, that's like people, when they take their like geekiness and they're like fandom, and they like chart it into something that, like other people can enjoy. That's awesome. That's what it's about.

[39:59] Speaker 2: Well, agreed, agree 100% so last question, Should Grizabella but the one to die and ascend in your church altar to the heavy, sad layer, or would you be voting for someone else if you were in charge? I

[40:24] Speaker 2: team Gus, it's a consensus,

[40:28] Speaker 3: yeah, just because, like, he did so much, and like he's so lovely, and like he's old, like, Let him, let him, Let him, let him rest. Now, let him enjoy. You know what I mean, like, he's, he's often played as not doing too well, too you know what I mean? He's, he's like, I mean, like, Max Melman played him in my high school production, and he, he was full, shaky, shaky, like, I mean, like, wasn't looking at anyone, like, shaky, shaky and barely was on his voice. I mean, it was some acting happening, but he was on his way out anyway. Sir.

[41:06] Speaker 2: John Mills was blind and had to be like, carried on stage in the VHS, right?

[41:12] Speaker 3: I didn't know that that wasn't like, yeah,

[41:16] Speaker 2: Joyce, no, no. It was a he has walked out there because he is blind at time of that filming, and so he couldn't do any dance numbers. He couldn't do anything. He had to be basically like handheld out there to stand on his mark for the movie. And

[41:32] Speaker 3: that's amazing. That's Sue Jane Tanner. That's walking him out. And Sue Jane Tanner was the original Madame tenardier in London, in Le mis everything

[41:41] Speaker 2: crosses over. So how do we you're involved in so many projects, I want to make sure we cover them. How do we follow them? How do we how do we listen to your podcasts and follow the dressing room project and everything else?

[41:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, follow me at the Michael Kushner on Instagram. That's like, the most important thing, just because, like, that's pretty much like my hub, but at the Michael Kushner on Instagram, and when you listen to my podcast, your multi hyphenate or watch my Broadway memory every Thursday live, 7pm Eastern, Standard Time. You can follow those accounts on Instagram, at your multi hyphenate and at my Broadway memory, and we can keep in touch, and we can do all that stuff and get it and have a good time. Amazing.

[42:27] Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for enlightening us and telling us about your insane and amazing production of Cats from South Florida.

[42:39] Speaker 3: You're so welcome. I will, I will find that DVD, and I'll watch it, and I will let you know if there's anything that else I need to report.

[42:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to know any more plot changes. That's really what I'm most interested in. Is, what else did you decide to do to change the narrative of cats? Because there's, there's a lot of ways you could do that.

[42:59] Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I'll watch it and watch you know, perfect. Well.

[43:09] Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode with Michael Kushner on the wrong cat died, the podcast breakdown of the cat's atrophy. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website, the wrong cat died.com. You.