This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:17] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. You probably know him better from his time in this small little production of this thing called Frozen. But one of his very first theater experiences was in a regional production in Waterloo, Iowa, at the Waterloo Community Playhouse in Cats. So welcome, Jacob Smith, and thank you for joining me.

[0:40] Jacob Smith: Hey, buddy. Thanks for having me.

[0:42] Mike Abrams: I always love regional productions because it's almost more fascinating because you don't have, I don't think that the Broadway cast and everything get all this deep dive into the personality. And the regional production, I think, has a smaller, shallower dive. But it is still the same show. And it's still an incredible kind of thing. And then with being early on in your career leaving Broadway, I think it'll be really cool. So my first question, though, is always, before you went to the Waterloo Community Playhouse and got on stage in full-on cat gear, had you seen the show? Had you seen the 1998 movie? What was your introduction to Cats?

[1:10] Jacob Smith: Yeah. Yeah. So I'd definitely seen the movie. And I'd seen the show. I actually saw the tour. I guess it would have been the fifth national, because I was looking it up today, that Troika did. And they came through Cedar Falls, Iowa, because I was going to college there at the time. And so, yeah, I saw the touring production. And I hadn't actually seen the movie yet. So the touring production was the first exposure I had to the show. And I was like, what the hell is happening? And I remember seeing the set. And I thought the set was just fascinating. And the lighting for everything was so cool. And then that synthesizer starts in. And I was like, wait, what? And then they start coming out of the whole opening of the show.

And I was jaw-dropped for the majority of the show in confusion and wonder and just taking it all in. And it was magnificent. It was so, so cool. I still wish that I would run into somebody or work with somebody who was on that tour. I've never met anybody who was on that tour just to be like, I saw you in Cedar Falls, Iowa in 2003.

[2:41] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Well, I've interviewed a few. So I'll make some introductions here after this, so you can talk to some of the tuggers, the fifth cast.

[2:51] Mike Abrams: So, okay. So you went in with really no kind of thought. You hadn't seen the movie. It's probably like for me in Indiana, where there's a few things coming through tour. So if you want to go, you're going to go. At this point, did you know that theater was going to be something that was going to be in your future?

[3:07] Jacob Smith: Honestly, no, because I was in college. And I went to college for communication. I started in music. And after four or five major changes, which my wife gives me crap about all the time, I settled on communication. And I actually, I had terrible stage fright at the time, like crippling, choked stage fright. And I was dating a girl at the time. I mean, really, I credit her with starting my whole career as a performer because she wanted to get involved in the local community theater. I was terrified. I was like, no, I'm not going to do that. I can't sing in front of people or act in front of people. That's my worst nightmare. And she literally begged me to go. And I went. I went to make her happy.

And that was at the Cedar Falls Community Theater, which Cedar Falls and Waterloo, if you don't know, is like, I mean, they're sister cities. So they're 10 minutes apart from each other. And so I went and I auditioned for Joseph and got in the show. She got on the show. We did the show. And then the next show that we did was Beauty and the Beast at the Waterloo Community Playhouse. And I was guest on. And I remember getting the call from the director and wanting to wet my pants at that point because I was like, oh, wait, I'm the lead. Like, holy crap. And essentially what happened is I faked it. I faked it so hard that I somehow got over my stage fright. I don't know what happened, but being guest on and being that big, you know, overly obnoxious douchebag totally got me over my stage fright.

The next summer was Cats. And I did not want to do Cats because I like I'm a bigger guy. I'm not pencil thin. I've got a little tummy on me, which I'm fine with. I like I don't mind it now that I'm almost 40. I'm like, you know what? It's who I am. And I didn't want to be in a unitard. I didn't want I did not want to wear a spandex unitard in front of a bunch of people, including my parents. And the choreographer and the music director, who are good friends of mine, they basically begged me to do it because they're like, we don't have enough people. We need somebody who's bigger, who can do a certain role. And we just we just really need you to do it. And I was like, okay, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it.

And only having had seen the tour, you know, and by that point, the movie. But I was like I had no concept of the deep meanings behind this poetry and like, you know, all the sexual innuendos and the themes like I had no clue, no clue.

[6:21] Mike Abrams: I love that story because it's basically we have a very limited amount of people with enough talent to do this in Waterloo, Iowa, and you fit that criteria enough. So you need to come. You need to come like we'll deal with the, you know, like the fact that you're not the typical body type for that, this cat. It's like we just need someone that can actually physically do this and sing.

[6:40] Jacob Smith: Yep, exactly right. And I love I love that that early in your career, it's like, you know, hey, look, it's it's the Waterloo Community Playhouse. We've just got to they're not coming in looking for anything too special there. No, they're ready for they want local theater. It's going to be good.

[6:56] Mike Abrams: Exactly. So you so yeah, I mean, I think that's the I that is one thing that when I saw the show the first time I being a sports fan and always seeing all these athletes and they're just the top of their field in most sports. And then you occasionally get the like, oh, the golfer that looks like the average Joe or some of the NFL quarterbacks are like, yeah, they got the dad bod going on. But then you get to I like when I saw cats, I was like the it's unbelievable how like fit and in shape. And then, you know, you watch what the what they do. Yeah. For two and a half to two forty five, whatever it is. And it's like that is why right there. It's at the it's physically so demanding. And I've now heard about all these injuries.

[7:41] Jacob Smith: Oh, yeah. So did cats work you into the best shape of your life?

[7:46] Jacob Smith: Yeah, I would say. Let me see. So in 2000, let's say 2006, because it was around there. I was twenty four at the time. And that production almost blew out both of my knees and not from the choreo. It was from staging that I chose to do. And shortly after the opening of the show and our set, we had a trunk with a big trunk that was kind of on an angle. And I like jumped up on the trunk and me thinking that I was invincible, jumped up off this trunk, so I was probably like six, seven feet in the air, and then I would just I would come down on that stage and I would bottom out like into a squat every night like I'm, you know, I'm 230. So two hundred thirty pounds coming down on that stage and literally going full squat, knees bent, jumping up and then running off the stage and jumping onto a concrete aisle in like these dance shoes.

My legs like I was wrecked, wrecked for so long from doing a community theater volunteer, no pay production of cats. And we did, I don't know, like three weeks maybe of a run. So when I when I think about what those guys did on Broadway, like, you know, Jeremy Davis, Clear Camp, they're two of my favorite people on the planet. And Jeremy, I think, told me at one point that he he lost like four or five pounds a show. And just like it's yeah, he's already like he's a smaller individual, like he's cut. I'm like, how did you have four or five pounds to lose per show? Like I was nowhere near what those guys did on Broadway. And but it still hurt so, so much.

[9:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I have a joke that I with with a couple of the cast members off mic that the cat's diet is going to be the way to lose the weight. Like, let's just do this eight times a week. Yeah. And rehearsals and everything. And you will you will lose lose an immense amount of weight just just because of the physical nature of it.

[10:02] Jacob Smith: Seriously. And and you were Alonzo and Macavity, right? So that was.

[10:06] Jacob Smith: Yep. So the jump was as Macavity, I'm guessing.

[10:11] Jacob Smith: No, it was as Alonzo. That was Alonzo. Yeah, I think it was. Okay, man, when was it? I'm trying. Granted, I mean, this is like, you know, 16, 17 years. I feel like actually it might have been like Grizabella's first kind of entrance. And like I like jumped down and looked at her and like hissed and then ran off like, oh, like I got to get away. I got to get away from Dirty Grizz.

[10:39] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Crazy. Yeah. So it's a three week production, regional production of an already fairly strange show in a more remote location. Like I'm not going to say Waterloo is like the smallest town in the world, but it's definitely not. It's not a big city by any means. How what was the reaction from the crowd? Like how did people take to it? How did you know? Did you get a few people showing up every night? Like what was the general fee?

[11:00] Jacob Smith: Yeah, it was. I'll tell you what, the way that it was staged and the way they built that stage for this, this small community playhouse was really awesome. It was really awesome. I mean, they made a playground for us and we're amateur actors at the time, you know, and not not knowing most of us hadn't seen a Broadway show, hadn't seen the scale and the scope of everything. So, you know, for us getting to to step onto this this stage and literally it was like a like a jungle gym, you know, on that stage. So with that in mind, my first entrance from the show was from under the stage, like like house left on the aisle, like seats one and two, like right there. Opening night comes and I can just barely see through mesh like on the front, like so that the sound can come out of the front of the stage and I look out and who's in seat one and two?

My mother and father. Now, this was a hobby at the time, like quotations, air quotes, hobby. So they'd seen me do Beauty and the Beast and Joseph and like they were, you know, proud parents and being wonderful supporters. But I literally came out and my dad is sitting there looking up at the stage and doesn't see me right away. And I poke out as as Alonzo and, you know, singing, were you blind when you're born, like full tilt at my father two feet away, I will never forget for the rest of my life, he noticed me and jumped probably two feet out of his seat. And my dad was a big dude. He was six, four, probably 400 pounds, like big man. And he jumped so high and I stopped singing because I was laughing.

I was laughing so hard. And it was one of like one of my fondest memories of doing especially community theater, but the theater in general, you know, as being able to scare my dad. But like we had we had a full house every night because the support for regional theater and especially community theater and oddly enough, an area where you have two semi-competing community playhouses and Cedar Falls and Waterloo. I mean, but it was full every single night and everybody, whether they thought it was insane or whether they thought it was the coolest thing they'd ever seen, was so supportive and so wonderful in that environment, you know, and I mean, we got reviewed for every show or for the show and and, you know, the I could not tell you for the life of me who who did the reviews back then, but they were even then like, yeah, they had little tiny things to say, but we're talking about community theater in Iowa.

So even they were just like, this is magnificent. This is the best thing we've ever seen. And we were all on cloud nine doing this weird ass show in the middle of Iowa. I mean, it's a show can't last 40 plus years without something kind of still still there. And even as much as it's fun to make fun of and it's weird and it's strange and there's a lot, as you mentioned, the sexual undertone and some dark topics that kind of can be read through it. If I mean, if you catch it, which is I think most people don't. Yeah. It's there. But at the same time, it's kind of got a little bit of fun and a little bit for everybody that nobody who hates it has been able to explain why they hate it.

[15:02] Mike Abrams: Exactly. Which is, I think, part of the why it continues and why you can like people will come out of, you know, it's like almost a little bit of a train wreck of the it's so strange. It's so weird. I don't know what I'm seeing. I don't know what to make of it. But you should see it.

[15:11] Jacob Smith: Yeah, exactly. Well, I think part of that, though, I mean, the poetry itself is such an odd thing. You know, I mean, when you just look at the poetry outside of the musical, but then when you start looking at the musical, the music itself is so, man, it just gets in your head. It gets in your head. You can't help but sing it and kind of smile when you do it, whether it's Macavity or Skimbleshanks or whatever it might be. And then you see these people who are literally manifesting behaviors of cats from their physicality to their relationships. And then and they're like the most beautiful people and bodies you've ever seen doing this crazy choreo and doing it better than anybody on the planet.

And it's just I get I get why it hooks people and why people do love it. I totally get why people hate it, like just the weirdness of the thing and that there's not like there's not the set storyline, really like it's an amalgamation of different poems and put together. And it's what is beautiful. It is not my favorite show as a show, but damn, do I have an appreciation for what cats is and what it what it does for you as an actor and does to your body, but also just like how it just makes people smile. It just it does. It makes people smile.

[16:39] Jacob Smith: And it's it really is a it's a little bit for everybody, which is, I think, part of it, although I still would argue you shouldn't bring children to it.

[16:48] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. I think there should be an age limit. So I think that let's get to that point, because I'm curious what you're told about. I care more about Macavity than Alonso. Yeah, because when you and we can get into his character, too, but I when you break down his character, it's like the one seemingly known truth is that he's in an abusive relationship with Demeter. Right. And that seems to be common. Hey, look, this is just accepted, which is an interesting thing to just be like, yeah, this is accepted part of the show that really has no bearing on the outcome of the show. Right. So how much of that is told to you in a community theater production as a nonpaid volunteer there to scare your father? Yeah. Are you given that backstory on the cavity or are you just kind of like, hey, here's the dance number. Here's the song. Here's a couple notes to like this. This is really all you need to know to play this. What are you told?

[17:27] Jacob Smith: Like, yeah, the whole story. 100 percent the latter. It's 100 percent. We weren't told the deep stuff. There was not a deep dive. It was. I was cast as McCavity because I'm six to two thirty. I have I have a black belt in Taekwondo and I could do the fight scene. It's like that was that was big enough to kidnap a dude around me, basically. Yes, exactly. And like for our production at one point, I held this little one of the kittens who is a gymnast. I held her over the first two rows of the audience, like in a choke hold kind of thing. Like, you know, it's completely, completely different than a than a professional production. So I was told that he was a bad guy and, you know, that everybody kind of hated me and that I may or may not actually be Alonzo, who is doubling as McCavity. Like, I'm actually McCavity, but I'm Alonzo in the tribe. So, like, you know, infiltrate and whatever, which, you know, I don't I don't I don't know. It's a it's a fun idea, but but no, we didn't.

[19:01] Jacob Smith: Three weeks, you said three weeks. Yeah. OK, like like three weeks of rehearsal, three three week run done. So, yeah, there was no you're not getting deep. You're not getting deep. You're not getting your three words. Felinity school, I think is what they called it, where you like learn to be a cat. Did you do any like even an hour or two of we did? Yeah. There's the movements. Yeah, we did some exploratory stuff. Our choreographer, Libby, was really great about that. I mean, she I mean, she was a dancer through and through and and was really into that stuff. And granted, this is the third musical I've ever done. So so to be a cat and to be in that physicality for me, I was like, what's happening? What am I doing?

[19:45] Mike Abrams: So what was right after this? Because you went from Joseph to Beauty and the Beast Cats. And I did. So I did a play or two. OK. And they were I mean, they were not well-known plays because I can't remember the names to save my life. And then we did Footloose. And then after Footloose.

[20:04] Jacob Smith: After Footloose, I yeah, I headed to New York at that point. Like I had the bug. I had the bug after Beauty and the Beast and loved it. And at that point, Libby, the choreographer for Cats, was was going to school in New York to study professionally. And I was like, well, why can't I do that? So I did that. And then, you know, luckily, things things went well for me from there. But but yeah, Footloose was like the last thing I think I did for the playhouse.

[20:38] Mike Abrams: OK, so it seems like Cats and I mean, loosely punned here, but it is like a tribe. You know, if you've done it, you've done it. Do you like when you got to New York and made it and on Broadway, are you like, I've done that, you know, like, are you running into like, you know, you're talking to, you know, Jeremy and, you know, Claire and you're like, yeah, you know, I've been there. I've been through that ringer to like, is that is that something that happens?

[21:01] Jacob Smith: I think if you if you don't have some kind of concept of the level changes that you're going through from community region, like volunteer theater to Broadway, and at that point, knowing what it takes to mount any show, let alone a show like Cats. I would have been the biggest dick to go up to Claire and Jeremy like, oh, you're in Cats. Yeah, I did Cats. Yeah, I've done that. I'm cool. I get it like. OK, totally, totally fair. I think I meant more in the sense of like it's a it's almost like a camaraderie kind of fraternity. Yeah. Like you've you've been part of this. You know, you've been part of it. It's like everyone's almost put in their time doing it at some point in their life.

[21:41] Jacob Smith: Yeah, I think there is that like you have been a part of that story in some way, whatever way it was told, you know, whether it was community theater or the fifth national tour or Broadway. Like you, you understand something maybe a little bit deeper about the show than than most people would, I guess, you know, but. I mean, I vaguely remember talking to Jeremy about it. And like in telling him that I did a production of Cats, and I remember his face like eyebrow raised, kind of like chin down slightly like, are you you you did Cats? And I told him, you know, I told him the stories and we laughed about it and it was funny. But it's it is still, though, like you have some idea of what. Maybe what their thought processes were in the in the production or just kind of what what they went through on some level, no matter how small it might be, you do have that kind of connection.

[22:52] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I mean, it's it's definitely not the same. It's like it'd be like me going to an NHL player and be like, yeah, I played I played growing up. I know exactly what you're talking about. Like, you know, it's not but but I think it is a there's only so many shows that have had the like have been done in that like this many regional theaters and it's like many productions for this long. Yeah, that there's you know, there's I'm sure there's going to be. I mean, like part of me feels like that's going to be Hamilton in however many years. Oh, yeah. Someone's gonna be like, oh, I did that in high school or I did that here in college. I did some version of that. And Cats feels like it's kind of there because it's been around for so long.

There's not many other of those shows. And I'm the wrong person to be trying to figure out Broadway history, theater history in general. Honestly, me too. Me too. I'm not I'm not that guy. I'm I'm like I'm not the theater fanatic. I'm yeah, I feel you. I think maybe Joseph. I think Joseph is one of those kind of cats ask that we're almost everybody who's been on Broadway has done a production of Joseph. That's you know what? And that's fair, because I think a lot of times for me knowing so little and I'm kind of going back to like, OK, what did I get dragged to or go see as a kid in Indiana or growing up? And and I saw probably more than most just because of my family had season tickets to the five shows that come a year to Indiana.

But there's a few where I'm like, I did see that. And there's a bunch of other ones where I'm like, you know, even bigger things, some things are coming back that I've learned now as I've been part of the Broadway podcast network. I'm like, never even heard of it or have heard of it. But I have no idea what you're talking about. And even bigger things too, like I think with companies coming back. Oh, yeah. Other things are coming back to Broadway. I'm like, yeah, I have no idea what that's. Sure. Yeah. I didn't I didn't tour through Indiana growing up. Right. Joseph did. I did see Joseph as a as a kid. So I do remember that. And a couple other things, you know, like that. And then some other ones that made me laugh, like Ghost, the one that came through.

I was like, that's that's hilarious that that's a musical. That's amazing. That is one that I desperately wish I could have seen. And I didn't get a chance to. I didn't get to see it, but it came through and it just like didn't line up with me being able to go. And that was when I was like, because, you know, again, you get five a year, basically. Right. And they're all great because they're all touring. They're the national tours and they're big theaters. So it's but you get the announcement and it's like there's one or two that everyone's like pumped and knows about. And then there's one or two where you're like, wait, what? Yeah. Is this a thing? Let me wiki that real quick. Yeah. Let me look that up and let's see if those are ones we're going to go to or try to give away ourselves.

Totally. Yeah. So, OK, let's I want to I want to shift gears a little bit here because I think I want to hear still what your take is on the cavity, even though you didn't get the deep dive. So I'm going to tell you a few of the rumors. Oh, bring it. And I want you to tell you, I want you to tell me if you if you even had heard that, thought about that and where kind of your mind goes of how would you maybe play it differently if you knew that? So we talked about the first one, which is that it seems really clear that it's abusive relationship with the meter. Yes. Was that told to you at all?

[26:07] Jacob Smith: Not even a little bit. Not not even remote. No, no. I mean, you know, granted, we're 16, 17 years afterward, but no, there was no deep dive in the relationships. It was it was very much a kind of an improv situation. I know Jeremy touched on that, too, when he was chatting, but like every night was a little different in the relationship scheme. But I was never told anything about Demeter. And if I mean, knowing what I know now, that would have been so fun to play. That would have been just a blast, you know, to have that kind of an insight. But yeah, nothing, nothing like that.

[26:54] Mike Abrams: I'm convinced now that if you if I know, like the level that I know now, I'm like, I want to see the show again. Yeah. Which I'm trying to to go because I'm like, wait a second. Let's see how they're playing. Yeah. See if they got this, you know, if they're playing this thing or that angle. Although I still can probably only point out about half the cat. I know I know the name and I know the main characters, but some of the smaller ones, I'm like, which one of the twins over here? So, OK, so the other one and I don't actually buy this this rumor, but there is a rumor that Bombay Arena might be McAvity's daughter. Oh, where does that where does that come from? Like, where does that originate from?

[27:31] Jacob Smith: So there's a Wikipedia fan, like a fan Wikipedia page where most of these come from. And it seems to be some production. Some people played it a certain way. And I mean, Jeremy's part of one of these with Tower Haines. Those two aren't supposed to be friends or they're not supposed to have a relationship. And they played it and I think they played it because someone mentioned it to him and then they kind of got a kick out of playing it that way. But that that then becomes a rumor of like, hey, that these two are related in this way or this or that. That page also has every cat's astrology sign. So I'm like, somebody is also just, I think, messing with somebody.

[28:16] Mike Abrams: Well, I mean, I kind of want to one day and I haven't done it purely because of time, but like I just need to add all the rumors I've made up. Yeah, because I've definitely put a bunch in there. Like I've made some up and, you know, we're I've got some answers on some of these documented here. Totally. I mean, yeah, you I mean, you literally have your fingers on the pulse of the show. Like if there's anybody, honestly, who has to be one of the top experts in the world on cats at this point, it has to be you.

[29:02] Jacob Smith: There is I kind of I've thought it through of how this how this like hierarchy goes of knowledge. It is it starts with, obviously, people who are in the production, the creators, you know, like the Trevor Nans and the Andy Blanken viewers, like the ones that like legitimately. Right. They created it. They know like this is their baby. So there's that group. And then everyone who's in it has at least been told this like the lore of it from somebody from that. Totally. Whether they remember it or not, it's a whole different thing. Or if they were truly listening, they have it. Then there's the junkyard, which is the extreme fan base. And that group and it's a you know, there's a group and I've interviewed a couple of them.

I've definitely met a few of them. That group knows way more than anything I could like ever comprehend. Wow. There is a it's unbelievable. And it's kind of fun because I kind of enjoyed I think I've probably maybe put some as an outsider looking in some thought into things that they never thought of. Sure. But this is the group that's going to see the show, you know, twice a week or multiple times to pick up on all these things. They're going to go where it's going on.

[29:41] Jacob Smith: Yeah. Yeah. I assume a lot of those rumors also come from them. I think that they I mean, they found some beauty in the show and like really put some like some true truth behind it. So I appreciate all the what they've done.

[30:00] Mike Abrams: Then I think there's me. And it's like the here's this person who doesn't know anything, who probably shouldn't have any knowledge on this, had very little going in, but has figured a lot out just by spending an immense amount of time on it and asking a lot of the, you know, a lot of people that probably haven't talked about it. Yeah. To give their insight on it.

[30:19] Jacob Smith: Yeah. But I mean, also, you're like you're doing the deep dives, right? Like you're doing the research and and and you're asking these questions that because of your background and because of you walking into musical theater the way you did of not knowing anything and just like being an open person, right? Like you're just kind of taking it in as it comes. It offers such a unique perspective. And I think, you know, especially professional actors and super fans and whoever it might be, but whoever is connected so tightly to this material to have somebody like you come in and throw this stuff out there that like, wow, I've never thought about that or I've never heard that rumor before. It's a cool thing.

And it keeps it keeps things alive, right? Like it keeps the show alive and keeps people thinking about it or reminiscing about their time in the show or coming up with new, crazy theories about relationships between these cats or like what happened after they went off alone at the end of the show. You know, like it's a cool thing. It's really cool.

[31:29] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And I now can confirm, although I'm not going to say who, because I don't want to get them in trouble, but I have influenced production and I don't want to anger a creative director who's like, they're playing this differently because of this guy, you know, in New York with a podcast instead of what I'm being told to do. But I have convinced some people to play relationships differently, not changing anything else, but just, hey, I'm going to look at this person differently than I would have thought.

[31:59] Jacob Smith: Yeah. So that's kind of been my that's now my goal is I'm just trying to influence production.

[32:04] Mike Abrams: But that's that is fun, though, too, because when we get involved in shows and you're doing a two or three year contract, you know, like I did, I did two and a half, wait, two years of the Broadway run of Frozen, right? You get stuck in your relationships, you get stuck in your bits and your moments with people on stage. And every once in a while, I had a director one time say this, you have to kill your baby. Which was a horrific thing to hear at the time, I was like, what are you talking about?

[32:30] Jacob Smith: Sounds very cats.

[32:34] Mike Abrams: It sounds very cats, right? But what he meant was, you know, you have a bit or you have this thing that you came up with somebody else and you get a laugh every night. Sometimes you have to kill that bit and walk away from it or kill that certain relationship and walk away from it to find something new and deeper and fresh for you as the as the person, not the character that that keeps your interest and in turn revitalizes the show, you know, so for you to be able to kind of influence that. And granted, like, you know, as we've said already, that there was a lot of improv in cats and in relationships. And, you know, one night you might be best friends with Jelly Lorem. And the next night, you might get the hell away from me.

Like, I don't like you stink tonight or whatever it might be. But to do that on the reg of like an established relationship, kind of in the show, like air established relationship, that's pretty cool. And as an actor, that is the funnest thing, to be able to change up your relationships with people on stage, because it changes your performance on a lot of different levels. And it makes things so much more fun and interesting. So good on you for that.

[34:00] Mike Abrams: It also is. It kind of lends well to it, because at the end of the day, there it's a family. It's like it's tribe. And so they're not going to be you're not going to be always happy with that person. No way in your family. It's still your family, but there's going to be those like certain days you're having a better day with this person.

[34:03] Jacob Smith: Totally. And I think it lends to it. I really what I'm what I'm hoping for is a consulting contract where I just can go on tour or be consulted ahead of a, you know, hey, we're going to go to this city. What do you got for us? You should try this today.

[34:18] Mike Abrams: Yes. Creative consultant. One hundred percent. Yep. Yeah. Feline consultant. Not expensive. I would do it for for a very, very deep discount. Just give me one free ticket, maybe two.

[34:30] Jacob Smith: Yeah, I did look at the tour. It's not going anywhere even remotely close to where I live, where I grew up or where it's not going anywhere easy for me to get to. So I was I'm I'm waiting to see if they extend it. I'm sure they will and pick some other cities.

[34:43] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah, they will. They will. For sure. Let's let's go into the rapid fire. I got a couple a couple common ones. I got a couple new ones for you. I'm excited to hear. So first is is, you know, if you're not Macavity, if you're not the big adult male that you want to be, just say whoever you want to be. If you can just play any character, forgetting which like character you physically could play, who would you want to be?

[35:10] Jacob Smith: Oh, man. I was I mean, at least for our production, this guy, Neil, played Bustopher and Neil was the sweetest human on the planet and was so good as Bustopher, honestly, like he was just so charming. And I'm like, that is such a fun little character bit to play. I mean, as I get older, I would totally want to play Gus, you know, I think that's the same track.

[35:43] Mike Abrams: Yeah. In most in most cases, you played both of those. And I would love to do that in our show. It was two separate people.

[35:48] Jacob Smith: There are two people. Yeah. Because Neil was like who played Bustopher was like 16 or 17. And he was just a really big guy. And the guy who played Gus was like in his 60s.

[35:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Couldn't get away with the now flipping him into it's about the Bustopher is also probably the one where you get, you know, like you get a nice, you know, you're not really in the unitard. You want to get a little bit of the big padded suit. You get the big suit. Yeah. And you get a little cane and. Yep. 100 percent. And like most I mean, most people who know me would be like, oh, you should be a tugger. You should totally be a rum-tum tugger. And I'm like, no, that doesn't interest me. I love like Gus. Gus to me is just the funnest I see. I keep saying funnest. There's no way that is funnest a word.

[36:34] Mike Abrams: I don't think it's I don't think it's most fun. I think Gus is the most fun acting track in the show.

[36:40] Jacob Smith: Do you want me to edit that out for you?

[36:45] Mike Abrams: No, please leave that, please. Please point out my idiocy. But yeah, I love that. I absolutely love that for sure.

[36:52] Mike Abrams: OK, so Bustopher. No. And then maybe now, Gus, maybe you are you're prime to do both. Yeah, you can do the bus. I'm in. That means you do have to play the worst character, though, at least in the Broadway one, which is Peter. Right? Like, come on. Can we just get him run over by a truck?

[37:04] Jacob Smith: I mean, there's killing in the show, but then, you know, it's a different it's a reward killing. So it is a little different. And I don't think Peter deserves.

[37:18] Mike Abrams: We did not have a Peter in our show. You know, I think only 2016 Broadway had a Peter. Really? I'm pretty sure it's just they need an ensemble character and they they credit him as and it was, you know, Christopher Gerd did it for most of the time. They just credited him another name as Peter. And because it's not in any other, you know, in there's a Gilbert in the tour in Asia. There's a couple other words, different names. And Peter's just listed in the naming of cats in the poem. So I think they just picked a random one.

[37:41] Jacob Smith: Yeah. Wait. So why do you Peter so much?

[37:51] Mike Abrams: Because I just think it's so strange to have Bustopher and Hugger and Mistoffelees and like all these Bombay Arena and and then Peter. It's like naming your dog, Jeff.

[38:03] Jacob Smith: Yeah, it's it's just like it's out of place from all the other names. And that was like what I remember my first show is like all these crazy names and all this like weird stuff. And then when I was doing the research, the first time I'm like, who's who's Peter and why is Peter in this? Like, why is there a Peter?

[38:21] Mike Abrams: I love that. That makes me laugh so hard. I love it.

[38:26] Mike Abrams: Who is your favorite and least favorite cat? Favorite and least favorite.

[38:30] Jacob Smith: Um, Monk, Monk was my favorite. I like I identified with that kind of protector, you know, like the like standing up for all the other cats. And even though he was a jack, he's a bit of a jackass because he's really arrogant. Right. He's just the most arrogant. Next in line to be in. Yeah. And he knows it. So like there's a love hate relationship there. But honestly, my least favorite cat, I think, is Mistoffelees.

[39:00] Mike Abrams: Don't like Mistoffelees.

[39:04] Jacob Smith: That's kind of not a common answer.

[39:04] Jacob Smith: Yeah, I feel like kind of the same reason that I have a love hate relationship with Monk. I feel like Mistoffelees is like, oh, look at me. I'm awesome. And just as like the huge showboat. And it which is ironic because I'm an actor, but I don't love showboating.

[39:19] Mike Abrams: Do you think any of your influence of this is the fact that you played McAvity and like Mistoffelees is kind of like you're like kind of ruins your day? Like, is there an underlying piece to that? Or for three weeks, you kind of ruined it for you?

[39:32] Jacob Smith: I mean, again, like we're going back a long time for me, but like, yes, I can see how that would 100 percent influence it. But even thinking about, you know, video I've seen of Broadway runs and, you know, like like Lindsey Chambers, you know, Lindsey was out of this world, out of this world. But just the character itself of just this huge showboater and bouncing around and doing all the gymnastics and stuff, which is so freaking cool and impressive as a person. But if I'm looking at it from the show, I'm like, I hate you. I hate you so much.

[40:14] Mike Abrams: OK, I can I mean, I can see it. I it's just again, it's just it's a choice. It's not the common answer. So this is a I got two new ones for you.

[40:24] Mike Abrams: OK, one is McAvity's song says that he's broke every human law. What law do you think he's breaking? Like what's the number one thing you think he's probably getting caught or in trouble for?

[40:32] Jacob Smith: Oh, I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind is is theft. Like 100 percent theft. But because he is such a bastard, you know, you know that he is like killed some some human along the way. He has done every unspeakable crime known to man or cat. So but I would say theft 100 percent is the thing that he does the most and doesn't think twice about. I would not be surprised if he's caught in any kind of be surprised if he went for the jugular on some human or a kid or something like that.

[41:15] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's clearly he's broken every law. So he's he's had to he's got to check all those boxes. I think the one that's like because of the meter thing, it's like, did he is he doing some like trafficking or something like that's shady on this? Yes. Going on there too.

[41:28] Jacob Smith: I picture him being like, like Shere Khan and like popping his claws and then kind of like dinking his claws, like think, think, think like knocking off like, what have I done today? Oh, I haven't killed anybody yet. Let's go do that now.

[41:43] Mike Abrams: Completely. All right. Last one. Since you did this in Waterloo, Iowa, which cat do you think would be living their best life in Waterloo, Iowa?

[41:50] Jacob Smith: Man, that is that is such a good question. And. I'm thinking it would either be Bustopher, because Iowa food, Midwest food, as you know, is awesome and it will pack on the pounds and like it's so good. So I think it would either be Bustopher for that reason. Or honestly, I could see a Skimbleshanks being really, really in like in the Midwest of kind of going going town to town and, you know, traveling and seeing kind of what's out there, because like, as you know, with the Midwest, it's flat. It's very spread out. Towns are very small. But each town, whether it's 100 people like where my mother lives, my mom legitimately lives in a town of 100 people. Or if it's Waterloo, Iowa, which has like 60,000 people.

They're all a little different and they all have their own unique characteristics to them in some way, whether it's the local bar or a restaurant or this random like World War One memorial because they had like four people from the same family die, you know, like it's just it's random or the or the there's a town near my mom that has the world's largest cast iron skillet.

[43:23] Mike Abrams: I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, I've seen it. I've been there.

[43:26] Jacob Smith: Brandon, Iowa. It's yeah, it's a stop. It's a stop when you're driving through, you know, you go, you know, you go see 100 percent. But that's what I can see. Skimball just being taking it all in, you know, whether you think he's the creepy uncle or the fungal, like whatever you kind of think he is. But like, I think you fit it'll fit either way.

[43:45] Mike Abrams: I I think that's fair. I think Buster was when I thought of to like, you know, I've been to the Iowa State Fair. Oh, God, he'd fit in. Yep. Deep fried butter.

[43:58] Jacob Smith: Yeah. So but I hadn't thought about Skimball. I mean, I don't know if Amtrak has a Waterloo, Iowa station.

[44:02] Mike Abrams: Definitely does not. So maybe that was it. I can tell you the ones that I thought, though, which I think are a little different. I could see Mungo, Jerry and Ripple teaser because I kind of see them as the like rich, stuck up rich kids who are causing mischief. And I can see in a smaller town that it happens, I think, more because you also get away with it a little bit more because you're not really doing anything super dangerous, but maybe just like stealing from the corner shop. But then you also know the sheriff totally in town. Totally. So I kind of thought, like, they might be they might be really living it up because they're causing some trouble, but they're really not doing anything that bad. Right. Just just enough to have some fun.

[44:39] Jacob Smith: Just enough that the sheriff is going to drive them home, you know, that type of thing. I kind of got that vibe. I could see them really enjoying their time in the I like that.

[44:52] Mike Abrams: OK, million dollar question. OK, I've argued that Grizabella is not the right choice. Right. I want to know if you agree or disagree with me, and if not, who would you pick as your choice?

[45:06] Jacob Smith: Man, I've been thinking about this all day, all day trying to trying to think about what I know of cats, which is not a deep I do not have a super deep, you know, insight into the material like you or like a Jeremy or a Claire or anybody, anybody else that you've got to talk to Claire, the Claire Claire will tell you anything you need to know. But yeah, you know, I think that's. I agree with you. I agree with you. I don't think that that Grizz should have been the one to go. I don't I don't think I don't know her backstory. We know she comes in and obviously she did something horrific to be either cast out or they're just pissed at her because she left whatever. But like she clearly did something bad and.

You know, I think that the show very much is about redemption and. And, you know, coming home in a sense, but. To have her kind of come in and sing this epic ballad and all of a sudden that makes everything right, and then she goes to the heavy side layer. Nah. Nah. In 15 minutes on stage, too. I just learned that. Yeah. That Grizabella gets 15 minutes in the show, which is crazy. Epic, epic track. That is so awesome.

[46:35] Jacob Smith: Yeah. And I mean, more power to anyone who's ever played Grizabella to be able to showcase that character in such a short amount of time on stage and how powerful they all do it. Yeah. But so now who are you picking if you're old Deuteronomy?

[46:51] Jacob Smith: I mean, to me, there's only there's really only one other choice. And I know that you've made this comment before, but I agree. I do think it's Gus. You know, I guess that seems like the most obvious. Yeah, I don't answer. I don't look at most of the other other tribe as being worthy or as having gone through what he has gone through or being as old, frankly. I mean, unless you're old Deuteronomy, you know, like he's the only one that compares age wise. Who there's a debate if if he's ever an option, like he's even considered, I think there's there's some there's some interesting pieces because a lot of this depends on what you use as your criteria for old Deuteronomy. Yeah, there's because that dramatically shapes how you choose totally and then who you think is actually eligible.

Right. There's definitely some schools of thought of like they're not actually like they haven't put in their time that they can't renew. Yeah. Could you pick a Victoria who just got there? Yeah. So those are the things I think that become, you know, interesting into that. But I think Gus is a very wise choice. Yeah, I agree, though. It is it is kind of obvious. So I'm curious to know from you, like who would your top three be that aren't Gus and in a brief reason why?

[48:15] Jacob Smith: So I go back to completely on how you do criteria, like old Deuteronomy, if I'm old Deuteronomy, and the reason I bring this up so much is because you get to see one ball. And I do think that, like, I would question if this happens, which it seems annual, but I think there could be some argument that it's every full moon, which would make it monthly. Yeah. Which would be very dark. We're going to kill 12 people a year, 12 cats a year. Um, seems seems aggressive. So I'm going to go with annual. Yep. But granted, granted, when a cat has a litter of cats, of kittens, that's true. It's not like a human where you have one, maybe two or three, you know, unless you're on some awesome, awesome drugs and you have like eight, like a cat pops out four, five, six, eight cats.

This is true. So I guess there is, you know, there's maybe it is a monthly thing either way. I want to know what old Deuteronomy is like, is it, is it the same decision and criteria every year? Is it different every year? Is it, you know, like if I wrote cats too, or cats prequel, you know, how is that, how is that shaping up if the ball is what I'm going to get to see? Sure. So with that in mind, I originally watched the show and I've said this a ton as I saw Leon and Lewis. And so I saw, I saw X Factor and I saw a reality show. I kept thinking there's what, 20 plus seasons of American Idol and a million knockoff versions of that. That's what I thought. So if that's my criteria, then age and story loosely matters.

Cause you know, you get the little montage before, but that really matters later. You know, the first couple, it's like, they're going to show you one or two backstories, but it's not until we get to the end where that maybe factors into the voting. Totally. So it's really about performance. So with that in mind, I did see X Factor. I know that Simon Kyle likes to pair individuals. So I picked, uh, Mustafa's and Tugger. Cause I thought those were two of the more entertaining, memorable performances that I saw. And I brought those together. I want to send them together this year as my X Factor winner. Wow.

[50:22] Jacob Smith: But I think if it goes back to, if you really want a redemption story, then Grizabella is probably your answer, right? Because you could package a nice little, like here's what happened growing up. And then she delivers this amazing performance. I think Gus tells a very provocative story of like, here's why I'm worthy and why I'm the most. So if it's truly picking like who's of age and most worthy, um, I loved, uh, someone has said that who's like one could be, who's the biggest strain on the tribe. And if that's the case, then the argument was for actually for Bustopher because he consumed so much. So, you know, like there's, it just depends on what you define as well, how old is picking. And I think a lot of the arguments for Grizabella is it's her time.

And I'm defining it as only looking at this one ball. Right. And I would argue that if you look at just this one ball, then how do you make that same call next year? Like if someone coming back next year to like, did someone else leave and have a really rough life and it's going to come back or if not, who are we picking from a redemption? Right. Because there isn't probably a redemption story. Right. I mean, maybe Macavity, maybe if he changes life around the year.

[52:01] Jacob Smith: Yeah. That's what I was going to ask you. Do you think there's ever a situation where Macavity is that choice?

[52:05] Mike Abrams: So that could be also, I think the, if you're trying to do what's best for the tribe, you probably helped Demeter a lot and you get rid of your, your biggest challenge. I would, it would be very tough to have a cats too without your, your actual villain though. I think like, so maybe there's some value them around. I think event, I mean, look, if you're killing a cat a month, eventually you're going to get to, you're going to get to Macavity. Like eventually they're going to, they're going to be their choice. But, but that's, that's where this gets really interesting. And I, and I don't think that anybody else has put that much thought into it. I think it's more of like memory comes on, we're going to send her out and show ends. But I think the criteria part is becomes really the crux of how you make that decision.

[52:25] Jacob Smith: Totally. And is, I mean, from your point of view, when you look at old Deuteronomy, like, I mean, what is your take on old Deuteronomy? Because I feel like you could go a million different directions, but I want to know what you like your specific thought is on old dude.

[52:40] Mike Abrams: So the fun fact for anybody that's listened to this from the beginning. So I'll give a little insider tip and behind the scenes for this episode. I did not know. I mean, I clearly didn't know a lot. And as I was doing the initial episodes of character by character, I was doing them sequenced and I was learning as I was going. So I started with old Deuteronomy, which means that if you listened to that first episode, you can hear how little I know about what happens later on in the show. And if you ask me today, I now have gone through most of the characters and I kind of watched all the way through and I'm like, I've put together some of those things. I hadn't at the beginning. So my old Deuteronomy, I was, I'm so confused because it was a, has, you know, was it 900 wives or something? It was like, there's some strange thing. He's kind of very, you know, he's the decision maker. It seems like monks is next in line, but when?

[53:34] Jacob Smith: Yeah.

[53:35] Mike Abrams: And so that's, I think like a weird part that I struggle with old Deuteronomy. He's like, when does he kill himself?

[53:39] Jacob Smith: Yeah. When does he choose himself to go?

[53:41] Mike Abrams: I'm done. I'm done. And it's your turn. And does that ever happen?

[53:45] Jacob Smith: Right.

[53:45] Mike Abrams: Um, cause he seems kind of omniscient, you know, almost of sorts, like he could be around forever. And also within that, what if you're not chosen and you just die? Like if you get hit by a truck.

[53:58] Jacob Smith: So then, you know, cats have nine lives. Is there, does that happen? Like they just reinflate?

[54:03] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's like, just, just, yeah, you come back and come back together. It's like a, you know, like a smash brothers. They just like kind of respond, um, back in. I mean, there's like, there's a lot of unanswered questions to the show. I mean, that's, that's definitely, we can add that to the list. Um, but I do, I don't know how to like take older. I mean, I didn't even know how to rate him when I was trying to think, could he be picked? Cause I didn't know if he ever could be considered.

[54:29] Jacob Smith: Sure. I get that.

[54:31] Mike Abrams: I like, I like the idea of there's a dark version of the show that was brought up by, by a couple of people that, um, older on me is just a serial killer and this is his way to mask it. And I have loved that version of this cause it's just so like dark and kind of, you know, the show's dark, but I've enjoyed the, that this very like, Oh yeah, this is the way he hides it. Every, he's just so loving and warm. And as you walk toward the giant headlight in the sky, he slits your throat.

[55:40] Jacob Smith: Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. He also like, he sits on stage during intermission in the, in the revival, which really threw me off when I saw it for real. I was like, what? It's like, is he still, is that prop or is that, no, it's like, no. And then people come up and take selfies. And I was like, this is very modern, very social media version of a show.

[56:00] Mike Abrams: Um, but that was another thing where I'm just like, that was kind of strange. So I've never really known what to make of him. And I haven't ever really thought he's, I think like sometime down the road, he's just going to be like, I'm done and kill himself.

[56:06] Jacob Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Like he'll pick himself as a choice. Just like tie a cement block around his neck and like jump to the river.

[56:10] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, he'll elevate. Yes. I know. I know. I'm just kidding.

[56:14] Jacob Smith: So there'll be other ways. So, you know, there's, uh, he'll, he'll find a way.

[56:20] Mike Abrams: Yeah. That's, it's, that's interesting. I love, I like hearing that take though, that insight. That's cool.

[56:27] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And that's what happens when you record 60 plus episodes of this show is you start to kind of have way too many opinions on all the different ways this could go. Right. Have you, have you thought about revisiting the concept of your first episodes and like going through cat by cat, knowing what you know now?

[56:44] Jacob Smith: I have thought about rerecording all of them of a, here's what I clearly got, right. Here's what I clearly got wrong. But at the same time, I have angered a few scramble shanks. Um, I have, because I called them the creepy uncle. So like, I kind of liked the fact that you're getting a really raw, like, okay, if you're just watching this from beginning to end, this is the take. And it's like me kind of figuring it out as I went. Um, and it's been, it's made these conversations so much better because I now have pulled all those things in. I've also learned a ton from being able to hear from someone who's played that character for the most part. I've talked to almost every character at this point.

Yeah. And so I, I'm able to be like, okay, well, that was definitely not how I heard it. That's not how I interpret it. And I was interpreting off of the YouTube video for the most part, totally. Which is why I did anybody that had a song. So it's like I started with anybody that had a song because I could watch that. I can pull from the lyrics. I could kind of understand what was happening because otherwise there'd be no way I'd be able to tell you anything about the twins or Alonzo or somebody else with, with trying to watch, you know, and I'm not watching the 1998 movie over and over again. I was, I don't have that. I don't have that in me.

[58:03] Jacob Smith: Who does? People do. I know people that do that. I mean, it's gotta be digitized by now. I mean,

[58:09] Mike Abrams: Oh, definitely. I downloaded it. I downloaded it. I watched it the first time I watched it full through. It was on a plane. I got very strange looks on an iPad. I downloaded it. I had it on an iPad. I was traveling for work and I was like, you know what? I've got a couple hours uninterrupted. I want to see it. I want to kind of like, I was in the process of doing the notes and I watched it and I, you know, it's people, people were looking over my shoulder and being like, what is this guy watching? Cause I was in work attire, fairly well dressed on an iPad. I mean, watching cats, if Britain, I saw you on a plane watching cats on your iPad, I definitely would have been a, like an elbow to the ribs moment and pointing you out and be like, oh yeah, he's watching the ridge, like the original recorded version of cats.

[59:00] Jacob Smith: Yeah. The 1998 VHS turned into a downloadable. Sweet Jesus. Sweet Jesus.

[59:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah. And that's one of two times I've ever seen it.

[59:09] Jacob Smith: Wow. That's epic. The other time I saw it was when Andrew Lloyd Webber did the, uh, he, he kind of did a voiceover, they played it and he kind of gave commentary. And that was, that was actually really cool. So he did that early in the pandemic.

[59:20] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I didn't know that that happened. That's really neat. Actually. That is, that is something that I would legitimately be interested in. And I'm like, as we said earlier, I'm not a quintessential theater guy. Like Brit makes fun of me. My wife makes fun of me all the time. And our favorite game is for her to play a song from a show or something and be like, do you know who this is? Do you know what show this is? Do you know who this is? Like I've been on Broadway twice and no, I have no idea. I have absolutely no clue who is singing the song, but my favorite thing to do to her in return is to make up an answer, even though I know who sings it and it will drive her crazy.

And in fact, my, our favorite joke is that I have a voice for Dublin, our dog. And when we're watching something like the voice and you know, when the contestants is asked, like, who do you choose as your coach? And I, in Dublin's voice, I always say Terrence, man, every time, every time. And she just laughs and looks at me like I'm the biggest idiot on the planet, but that all in a very roundabout way of saying a commentary by Andrew on cats would be super fascinating to listen to.

[1:00:04] Mike Abrams: It was really interesting to listen to. He didn't answer a single question that I've posed of like about the, like through line of the show, a lot of other really cool things about like how he created the, you know, some of the, um, choreograph and some of the, like the thought here and how the story came up. And I'm like, why Grisabella? Yeah. Wasn't covered.

[1:00:19] Jacob Smith: Yeah. That's interesting. And he doesn't answer my, my DMS. So one day, you know, he was just in New York. I was, I was trying to, you know, poke around and see if I could find them. And he was either for phantom. He was there for phantom and something. And I think the Tony's.

[1:00:30] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That little thing. But he, yeah, that's a tiny little thing. No capsule in one. Um, all right. Let's, um, two final questions. I think, what, you know, what are you working on now? And how can people find you on social media and stay in touch?

[1:00:46] Jacob Smith: So, uh, I'm out of New York city now. Uh, last year, Britt and I moved to Los Angeles to give that a go. And we lived there for the, for most of, most of the last year. And just in August, we moved to Indianapolis of all places, which we got to see you in Indy, which was super cool. Um, super, super cool town.

[1:01:11] Jacob Smith: Yeah. I mean, and it's, it's so crazy to us how much we love this town already. And it's been two months. Like we love it here. Like we're amazing. We're legit. We're considering a house, you know, like that's where, that's where it's at. Um, so, you know, I, hopefully we'll, we'll be on stage again at some point, but for now I'm focusing on voiceover and photography. So if you are in the Indianapolis area and you are in need of headshots for you as an actor, or maybe your business, look up Jacob Smith studios.com or on Instagram at Jacob Smith studios. Um, and for all your voiceover needs, I'm also available. Uh, but yeah, that's, that's the main thing is focusing on voiceover and photography and, and embracing this, this, uh, this re-emerging Midwestern life that I'm, I'm so happy to be a part of again.

[1:02:05] Mike Abrams: I love it. Becoming Hoosiers. Uh, I know I have a lot of Hoosiers that listen to this. So, uh, definitely reach out cause you're, you know, you got great people now in the Midwest.

[1:02:14] Jacob Smith: I love it. I love it. And truly like, it's nice to come home to the center of the United States. You know, I'm a native Iowan clearly since I did community theater in Iowa, but so we're, you know, we're, we're close neighbors, but God, we really do love this town. We're in an ax throwing league in Indianapolis. That's how much we love it.

[1:02:32] Mike Abrams: I showed you my ax throwing trophy.

[1:02:34] Jacob Smith: It was impressive. It was very impressive.

[1:02:36] Mike Abrams: It's a, it was, I, I, you know, I won it. And I think when I won it, everyone's like, of course he's good at it. He's from Indiana. It was like a, it was like a known fact. It was like, of course he's going to be good at it.

[1:02:44] Jacob Smith: But I will say, you know, I thought your ax would be bigger.

[1:02:49] Mike Abrams: It's a tiny trophy. It is a very small trophy, but I won it in Toronto.

[1:02:54] Jacob Smith: What?

[1:02:54] Mike Abrams: And it did make it through customs and I got stopped and I even told them cause it's, it's all attached. So it's not an ax. It's like attached to a wooden base.

[1:03:03] Mike Abrams: And I put it through the customs, like, you know, the, the conveyor belt and they're kind of looking and they pulled mine aside and I looked at the guy and it thankfully was on the Canada side. So it's like the, you know, they were like the Canadian Americans in there. Cause you do it there. And I looked at the guy, I go, I go, look, it's a, it's a trophy from ax throwing. And I was like, I would love for you not to take it. Cause I was very proud to win it. I was like, but I kind of get, if you have to take it. And the guy just looks at me and he goes, can I see it? I'm like, yeah. And he took it out and he just wanted, he walked around and showed a bunch of the other people and then he handed it back to me and I got to leave.

[1:03:41] Mike Abrams: So I did, it did make it through. I came from Toronto. I won it in a tournament there. And, and I wasn't at tournaments, an overstatement. I, that was the third time in my life I've ever, I've ever done it. But it was just a, it was like a thing where they put a trophy up and it was like, look, if you, you want an, I, I learned very quickly. I was very good at it. And it was like one of those strange things that I kind of related to. I grew up playing hockey. It's a lot of hand-eye coordination. It's a lot of like similar, like it's, it's, it takes kind of precision.

[1:04:09] Jacob Smith: Yeah, totally. So are you a, yeah, it was, are you a two-handed thrower? Are you a one-handed thrower?

[1:04:14] Jacob Smith: One. You're one? One. I like can barely throw two-handed.

[1:04:18] Mike Abrams: Oh, really? Yeah. I like really struggled with two-handed throwing, but the one-handed I, I barely missed.

[1:04:22] Jacob Smith: That's, that's amazing. I, I also struggled with the two-handed because there's just a whole lot of body mechanics involved with a two-handed throw.

[1:04:30] Mike Abrams: And now that we're in it, I'm like watching videos on ax throwing and watching, you know, the world championships, world championships of ax throwing and like learning how those guys do it. Cause every, you know, everybody's different. Right. And it's just, it's anything where you can be competitive, it's going to be a world championship in some spike ball world championship. Like it's there everywhere.

[1:04:51] Jacob Smith: It's impressive because they have like a little, we didn't have like a, like the corner bullseye, like multiple point thing. That's like a really tiny circle. We didn't have that. We just had a normal bullseye and these like professionals are like, I'm going to call my shot and I'm going to hit it and you're going to lose.

[1:05:01] Mike Abrams: And they hit it most of the time. Holy crap. I will say this. It was on the Ocho.

[1:05:16] Jacob Smith: Jason Bateman. Yeah. Cotton. I love it. I will say last night was our throwing night and we got to play some fun games because a couple people couldn't be there. And my wife, I have never been so proud of in the six years that we've been together, hit the blue ball or the kill shot or whatever you would like to call it on her third try of going for it. And didn't just like Nick it, she dead centered that sucker and everybody blew up and was screaming. I felt a little choked up, like, I'm not kidding. I was so proud. And she, I mean, she is strangely good at it and it has her husband makes me proud and worried at the same time.

[1:06:06] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I mean, we just spent a whole lot of time talking about a murdering cat, so you should be a little, a little careful that your, your, your wife is deadly with an axe.

[1:06:11] Jacob Smith: Another tequila, honey. I would be happy to get that for you.

[1:06:14] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Well, at this point, if we haven't lost everybody, I thank you for, for jumping on and talking about the Waterloo community playhouse version of cats from the early two thousands. It's been a blast.

[1:06:28] Jacob Smith: Absolutely. My pleasure. Always, always good to talk to you. And this was a trip for me, man. This was a lot of fun. So thank you for having me.

[1:06:44] Mike Abrams: And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died, the podcast breakdown, the catastrophe to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else to listen to podcasts, awesome Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died. Check out our website.