This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:18] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of The Cat's Atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have a very special guest. If you were obsessed with the 1998 Cats movie, then get excited because my guest today played the magical Mr. Mistoffelees. I am very excited to have him here today. So welcome, Jacob Brent, and thank you for joining me.

[0:35] Jacob Brent: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for having me here. It's awesome.

[0:39] Jacob Brent: I will say before we start that of all the people I always ask, like, hey, who should I have on the podcast? You are a name that has come up very frequently, and so I am thrilled to have you.

[0:50] Jacob Brent: Okay, that's a little silly to me, but yes, I can understand it, but I'm so happy to be here. I have enjoyed listening to other episodes and hearing friends of mine talk, and I have heard my name a few times. So it's awesome. I'm glad to be here and share my knowledge.

[1:09] Mike Abrams: Well, and I think what's fun is that my first question to most people, especially like the newer cast members and the Broadway revival is, what was your exposure to the content? To the content, to Cats, and most of everyone was obsessed with the 1998 movie, and here you are as a major part of that, and you're on one of the most iconic pictures from that is you hugging old Deuteronomy. So what was your first exposure to Cats as someone who predates in the 1998 movie, and obviously were on Broadway before that?

[1:37] Jacob Brent: Yeah. Wow. Not much. Not much. This is before internet, YouTube, all that stuff. You know what I mean? Honestly, Macy's Christmas Parade, I saw some Cats on there at one point. I remember watching a thing for the opening. They did something on the news about it, and it gave a glimpse. But Cameron McIntosh was very particular about not having any of the Cats outside of the theater, which in sort of his brilliance marketing, beginning of his brilliant marketing is like, the theater was painted black. All you saw were those cat eyes, and you really had to come into the theater to even understand what this thing was about. And I think that caused some of the mystique around it, and like, oh my God, did you see it?

Like, so growing up, I didn't really have much to see. I sort of had the cast album, and the inside of the album, there were some blurry pictures of some Cats that you kind of couldn't make out. Yeah, I didn't have much. But it's funny that you're saying about that video, because when we did make it, I was like, we didn't know if anybody would even watch this thing. Like, we had no idea. And when we did that, there were not very many Broadway shows recorded then. They recorded Into the Woods, they had recorded Sunny in the Park with George, both Sondheim shows, and maybe a few others. There was a recording of Pirates of Penzance that was around, but no one had done what we were doing. And so we were like, we had no idea.

This could have been an epic fail. It could have been what it's turned out to be. And we didn't know what it would do to the show, whether it would close the show, whether it would keep it open. There was a lot of rumors about like, oh, we're making this, and then they're going to close the show. And then it ran for like seven more years after that, and became even more popular. But it is exciting for me to go to currently a Broadway show. If I go to a show, and I usually know somebody in the cast, and go backstage, and someone comes up to me and says, oh my gosh, you were the reason that I'm in this business, because I grew up watching that video. And it's never lost on me. And it's just one of those incredible things that I just would not have even dreamed about, or it's just the best gift anybody can give you, right? To be like, because of you, I'm doing this.

[4:31] Mike Abrams: Yeah. It's interesting to hear you say that too, because when you're doing it, you have no idea what the impact is going to be. You never know when you're shooting something if it's going to be this longstanding year's worth of, everyone has seen it. I mean, almost everyone I've talked to has seen it and been obsessed with that film. And then you hear everyone's, especially your particular role, like that dance number or something that everyone's like, oh yeah, I tried to do either Victoria or your dance number. I was like, those are the two dance numbers everyone tried to mimic if they're a dancer. And so you have this thing that you don't even recognize at the time is going to turn into what it is. And now looking back, you're seeing the impact years later. That's a pretty cool experience, I'm sure.

[5:11] Jacob Brent: Yeah. And the other thing is when you do, they did this thing, I don't know if they do this, I don't know how other movies work, but this one, they lined us up and they lined us up in order of lines, who had the most lines in the show. And a camera was assigned to them. And I have some of the fewest lines. So I just thought, I'm not getting any camera time. There's no way I'll be like, you'll kind of see me run through. And then we got a rough cut. I got invited to a rough cut of the show and I was like, oh my God, I'm all over this thing. And I really had no idea when we were filming it. None. I didn't know what shots they were doing, which made it, I don't know if I'm jumping the gun here, but that made this filming so much harder because we didn't know what shots they were doing. So you had to be on every single take because you just did not know where they were filming.

[6:10] Mike Abrams: Well, that's kind of fascinating in itself. And in a show that is, some of the most important characters actually don't have a ton of lines because it isn't seeing a whole family, but then seeing how much you're... You also got the little CGI, I always used to joke when I saw that movie, it's like, oh, the effects that got added are in your scene. Compared to the 2019 CGI Cats FX, you got the very small thing there, but that is kind of fascinating too. And so I do want to hear a little bit about your just whole, including the movie, your whole run in Cats. Because I know you started as Constable on Broadway. You obviously were as Mistoffelees on Broadway. And then I know you went to the West End. So what was that journey like for the multiple years you got to perform in the show?

[7:03] Jacob Brent: Yeah, I'll try to truncate this because it's a long time, right? And I always joke, I kind of have a doctorate in Cats because I've been there so long. I had done a show before, Cats, called Starlight Express, another Weber show. And I did that out in Vegas. And I wanted to leave there and go to New York. And I got to New York. And I don't know, there was just something, I was so naive about the business. I did not go to college for this business. I just started right out of high school, which is funny enough, because now I run a musical theater program out of college. But I did go back later. And after Cats, I went back to school and I got my master's and all that. And now I teach. But yeah, I just didn't know.

I didn't know what you weren't supposed to do, right? So I came in. I actually called the casting director, which was Tara Rubin at the time. She had just taken over for Vinnie Lif. And it was her first casting assignment on her own. And so I got to New York and I called her office and just said, Hey, I just got back. My name is Jacob Brent. I just got back to town. I just did Starlight Express. I'm really right for Cats. You should see me. I mean, who does that, right? Like crazy. And they actually were like, Great. Can we see you on Wednesday? And they were like, We're bringing some people in. Well, they asked, they said, How tall are you? And I was like, 5'8". They were like, Great. Come in.

And it was one of those, like, I call old school auditions where it happened on the stage. So we went to the theater, checked in. There was like 10 or 12 of us. It was on the stage. We danced. We sang. We danced. We danced. We danced. And they just kept cutting it down. And I just kept staying. I was like, Wow, this is fun. And Cynthia Arrubia, who was the original white cat on Broadway, was the dance supervisor at the time. And it got down to me and people had done the show or done the tour. And she just had decided that she didn't want somebody that had done the show before. She wanted someone fresh. So I happened to be there and I got the Broadway show. And I covered Mistoffelees for the first six, eight months.

And I was Pounceable, a random brown cat that covers another, yeah, another dancing cat. And the first time I went on was a crazy story. As you know, Mistoffelees comes down in that rope. In that version, he comes down in a rope, it lights up, blah, blah, blah. Yay, everybody. And we sing that song forever. The rope comes down and there's no Mistoffelees on it. Something had happened up in the grid and the stagehand pulled the Mistoffelees off the rope. I don't know what happened. So the rope comes down. There's no Mistoffelees. And in that theater, it's like five flights up. So there was no way he was getting down to the stage. So Tucker just comes over, grabs him by the shoulders. I've been in the show for maybe a couple of weeks, maybe a month.

I think I had one rehearsal as Mistoffelees. He grabbed me in the shoulders. He threw me downstage. He grabbed me and he said, you're on. And he threw me downstage and I just started dancing the dance. And I had never done it as Pounceable, dressed as Pounceable. This poor audience had no idea what was going on.

[11:02] Jacob Brent: That is kind of crazy. So I wonder how many people notice the... Someone who'd seen it before is ready. I mean, Mistoffelees number is pretty iconic. And then all of a sudden, they've got Pounceable doing the turns and the whole thing that has to be... The show must go on.

[11:17] Jacob Brent: Well, the track, the Pounceable track always usually generally covers Mistoffelees. That's 99% of the time. But I just had joined and not had any rehearsal. So I hadn't done the bucket toss. I hadn't done the cape. I had no idea. And it was pretty exciting. It was kind of exciting. I don't really remember it because it just was like an out-of-body experience. But everybody was like, oh my god, I cannot believe you just did that. And so yeah, I did that. And Mistoffelees, then after he came down, he finally came on for like the last third. And that was weird because then he jumped on stage and took over. And it was just a bizarre mess. But that was kind of how the first time I went on. And then I kept getting put on more regularly.

That Mistoffelees ended up breaking his foot. Walking upstage, we were walking upstage, and I heard this gunshot. This was another performance. And it sounded like a gunshot. And he said, I think I've broken my foot. And he walked off stage and he never came back on. Or he crawled off stage. And I just moved over because Mistoffelees and Pounceable dance side by side a lot, as you'll see in that video. And then I just moved over a slot. And from that moment, I just kind of took over. I didn't ever do Pounceable again. He didn't come back. They ended up offering me the role. And that was sort of that. And then I stayed in New York for about nine years doing Mistoffelees.

[13:02] Jacob Brent: They probably thought if you can do it with one rehearsal on the fly with basically no prep, then you'd be fine. You'd be ready to do it with practice.

[13:19] Jacob Brent: Third audition, I went to the dance supervisor at the time, who was not Cynthia's, Richard Stafford. A note to Richard, I love him. We're great friends now. But he literally said, if we don't find anyone else, we're going to offer you the role. And I just thought, wow, if you don't find anyone else, like, how much more do I have to do to get, like, what else can I do? Like, right, I can't do anything else. Like, I've proven myself. But that's just show business sometimes. And I think because, I think what they were nervous about was I was such a good cover. And I was able to jump on and do it at a minute. Like, I could just do it. And I had those tricks and I can just pull them out and do them. That they were nervous about losing such a good cover. So they were trying to find somebody else, but then they didn't. And then Jillian came, saw me in the show. And then that was it. Jillian was like, give him the role. He's done. Like, we're done with this.

[14:21] Mike Abrams: So do you ever go back to Richard and say, you know, now, what, nine years after that, when you're the iconic member of the movie? And it's like, hey.

[14:28] Jacob Brent: No, we've never talked about it. Never talked about it. And he probably is going to listen to this and be like, what? But no, I love him. I love, no T. He was doing his, he was doing his job. The producers were like, you know, I get it. Show business. That was the business of show at that point. So you just kind of have to give it up and be like, okay, it'll, it'll land where it's supposed to land. And then how'd you end up at the West End at the, you know, the, you finished.

[14:54] Jacob Brent: Oh my gosh. Oh, well, the West End came way later. So then Cats hit, uh, breaks the record for longest running Broadway show. Um, we get to, I get to perform that. I get to be in that. And that was unbelievable. That was like, that night I was like, I've made it like, that is it. This is what I wanted to do. I have climbed the mountain. I am at the top. Like whatever happens after this is just gravy, right? Looking out there, looking at those legendary people sitting in that audience, um, uh, just, it was just overwhelming. And, and having my parents, oh, I'm going to cry talking about it, but having my parents there and seeing that and being able to perform that role and like have that moment.

At the end, I just remember this, this mass of sound coming at me at the end of my number. And I just thought, well, I, I can't do more than that. I mean, that is like a repayment to your parents who have, who have like sacrificed and made all this happen and sent you to dance class and took you every day. And like, you know, paid for you, like called when I called living in New York being like, I got like two cents. Can you say, like, can you please send me some money? Like, you know, and then to have that happen, it just makes it like full circle. You're like, this was all worth it. And so that was truly, truly amazing. We had this party afterwards, this like cast party, um, and Jillian and Andrew and Trevor and, um, I think it was just them. They were all sitting at a table and they called me over and Jillian was like, Hey, we're going to make a movie of cats. We're making a movie and we want you to play with stuff.

[16:45] Jacob Brent: And I thought, well, that sure is sweet. Right. Like, and up at this time, like no one from the Broadway show got the movie. No one, you know what I mean? Like Mary Martin didn't get sound of music. It went to, um, uh, Julie Andrews. Right. Um, Carol Channing didn't get hello, Dolly. It goes to Barbara Streisand, right. Like, and I'm not equating myself to those people, but I'm just saying like this people from Broadway don't get the movies at that point. Um, so I just thought, Oh, you're going to hire someone from American ballet theater. You're going to hire someone from the Royal ballet. You're not going to take me. And then like three months later they called and they were like, great. We're shooting the movie.

We want you to be in it. And I was like, well, I'm in the Broadway show. And they were like, yeah, we know. And I was like, well, I have to talk to them to get out of it. And they were like, it's already done. Like Andrew called and, um, you're out of the show and we're coming, you're coming to do the movie. So I went to do the movie, which was great. We can get more into that. That was a three month process. Uh, and it was awesome. Really just amazing. And then I came back to New York and I actually ended up having surgery. I finally had, I finally, I finally got injured and, um, had to have surgery. And, um, I came back to the show, made it back to the show. And then, uh, I gave my clue. I gave my notice that I was leaving.

And then about a month later, they gave the notice that the Broadway show was closing. So I always like to say that I left and then the Broadway show closed. Um, but that is not true. That's not how I, um, and then I had heard from the cats, fraternity, sorority, you know, the like family that happens. I'm sure you've, you're understanding this family from this podcast of like how we're all kind of connected, um, that they could not find him with stuff, at least in the London production. So again, I just called Jillian and was like, Hey, I'm available. I've had enough time off. I've recovered. I'm ready to go put me in coach. And, um, they did. They called and they, they, they flew me over and that was awesome because that was a different, just a different thing.

Like, um, I went in as sort of a celebrity star, uh, at this point now, my, my, my pictures on the billboard, um, you know, and they really, they really like, we're like, we have the guy from the movie come see us. And so it was just, that was just a whole different experience.

[19:26] Jacob Brent: Um, I had a different experience being, uh, sort of a celebrity in a show and, and holding and the weight of that, carrying the weight of that, carrying the like responsibility of, you know, when I did it first time, it was just me and I was like, Jacob, and I was just like, man, and did my thing and did my tricks. And yeah, and I'm so fun and young and like, and then it got, um, I got children coming to see me. I've got people dressing up as me. I have people holding signs in the audience, um, making things for me. Um, and it just was bizarre. Um, and I didn't quite know how to handle it. And so I had some great mentors that I went to and I was like, what do I do with this? Like, what are, what, this is like crazy responsibility. Um, and so they kind of helped me through it. But the London was fun because it was like, just a different approach to the show, but the show was completely different too, which is crazy.

[20:25] Mike Abrams: Yeah. I want to, I want to go back to, um, to the movie a little bit because I think something that I, that, you know, as I'm hearing you talk about it, I, I don't think I ever registered, which is, I just kind of always assumed, especially coming from somebody who's Broadway knowledge is much more from the last five or six years and not prior. Like I didn't grow up in musical theater. I didn't grow up, um, watching a lot of this stuff. I just kind of assumed that this was the 1980 movie was a pro shot. You know, like it's, it's like what we see more common today, but hearing you say it was a three month and equating it more to the sound of music and other stuff, like it was a movie. And so tell me more about, like, about that. Like, I don't know if, is that, is that a me thing or do people know that?

[21:07] Jacob Brent: Like I just always assumed that this was much more of a pro shot.

[21:11] Jacob Brent: I don't know that. I mean, it was not a pro shot. It was not, it was filmed. We took three months. We rehearsed for two months. They brought this group together from around the world. We had different people from different, we had people from the German production from, uh, France production all over the West end production, American production. And we rehearsed the show from scratch starting day one. Jillian brought us in, sat us down. We did animal work for like two days straight, no choreography. All we did is crawl around and sniff things and bathe ourselves. And it was, and we, we put that show together as if it was a brand new company. And it was awesome. It was awesome because we got to, because everyone had done the show.

So it wasn't like new information, but what we got to do was like dig for gems, right, like mine for like, what else is in there? What else, what other stories can we tell in this? Um, and so, and then we took about a month to shoot it and we did shoot it. It was all film people. They had never done a musical. It was all like our, um, steady cam guy was the guy who, he had just come from doing James Bond, the James Bond movie. Um, like, so they were like, what the F is this? Like they were also like, um, so they, it was treated much like a movie. Um, shoot, like we had a call sheet, boom, boom, blah, like all the things. It was not, um, a couple of performances that they filmed. Right. We, we went in, like we spent a day.

There was like a day just on my number. Like it was a number a day basically. And it was forever. Like we just ran it and ran it and ran it and closeups, mid shots, wide shots, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, we did do it twice through, I think twice or three times through completely. Oh, and there was no audience. So they took all the seats out of the theater so that all these cameras are set up all around the theater. We did it three times. I think it was three times all the way through without stopping with a 16 camera shoot, which was unheard of. It's still unheard of. Those cameras were everywhere, everywhere in the trash, upstairs, down, like everywhere. So you couldn't like relax. There was times when you're doing the live show, right?

Um, you can turn around upstage and kind of like breathe and like relax your face and stick out your tongue and be like, oh my God, comment on whatever just had to happen. But you couldn't do that when we were shooting the movie because there was a camera there. Um, and they would catch it. Uh, so yeah, it was, it was, it was crazy. It was a crazy, crazy shoot. I remember just being like, this is bizarre. This is nuts. Enjoy every minute. Try to remember everything. Cause this is not, this ain't going to happen again. Not like this. So it was, you know, it was magical not to be kind of,

[24:20] Mike Abrams: I mean, that is, it is again, such a fascinating thing because I, I look at it from a, you know, I, I only have the historic lens of seeing it. I watched it for the first time in probably 2019 maybe, you know, like I didn't grow up watching the VHS and burn through them, like half the people I interview with. And so I come from it, you know, it was around the same time that Hamilton had their pro shot. And there's, I, you know, there's so many of these other versions of just to your point, recording a, a performance and yours is obviously so much more than that. Cause you could tell there's stuff, you know, stuff that they couldn't do if there was an audience there. Um, but I just, that's a fascinating piece of this.

And it's, it's obviously something that has lived so long. Like it's still, still, you know, everyone that I talk to is still obsessed with it and has copies and now they're showing their kids and they, you know, they're starting them early with that video is like the core of it.

[25:12] Jacob Brent: It's awesome. Well, it's a re and the thing is, this is really good. I mean, I'm a little biased, but like, it's good. It's a good representation of what the Broadway show was.

[25:24] Mike Abrams: Yeah, absolutely. We'll be back for more of this cat's catastrophe after a short break. Now I do want to, this is the part I've been most excited to talk to you about. Um, and so I have, I always ask, and I want to still hear your answer to this, but I want to ask this question to you kind of two ways, because my obsession with the show is the backstories of the characters and the unanswered questions that you can try to take, you can try to fill in the blanks because of staging or because of like, maybe what we think or how people are going to react to it. And that's been what, you know, I'm 99, this'll be episode 99 where we've asked a lot of people that, that type of thing, but you have the advantage of having been able to talk to the original Broadway to where you got told your backstory, but then also you directed a lot of productions after.

And so I want to ask, my question is, is one is what were you told about Mastoffelees about everyone else? But then how much of the backstories of the characters and the unanswered about Mastoffelees about everyone else, but then how much of the backstories and characters beyond the three words, do you give as a director when you get to go and start, you know, starting a new show from scratch and you've got someone who maybe has never done it and only knows that 1998 movie? How do you tell this?

[26:39] Jacob Brent: And here's how much you need to know and here's how much you need to fill in the blanks.

[26:46] Jacob Brent: Oh, we do a lot. I do a lot of work. We sit in a circle and we do a lot of storytelling. And that's where I think the heart of the show is. It is at the end of the day, all theater is just like it goes back to cave people, right? Like sitting around a fire telling a story. And so if we don't get that story right, the poor audience has no idea what's going on. Absolutely none. And especially with Cats. Especially with Cats. Like children get it. Like kids get it. They don't overcomplicate it. They understand exactly what's going on. That's why it's so popular, I think, with children. But it was not made to be a children's show. I think that was a byproduct that came later. But if we are clear of what story we're telling and the relationships on the stage, and even if we're not saying words, the audience must understand what's happening.

And we have to make that clear. So to me, it's like the only thing. It's like the most important thing. And then you have to start dancing because there are 75 dance numbers. And putting it up, you only usually have two weeks. So you have to get going. But yeah, so I do give the three words. I love that you know that. I've heard people talk about that. I don't think they've been the same three words anytime, any production ever. Everyone just Trevor made this thing up. And now everyone does three words. And sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. But it is good to have them because when you are in the show and you're at a moment that you don't know what to do, you go to those words and it will inform you what you should do.

So they are important. But I also don't like people to get locked into them because Cats can be all the things all the time. You know, I have two that can be so loving. And then the second they can be like, turn on you and then run away. You're like, well, what reason is that? So that's that. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we talk a lot about the story. I think the story is so important. Most people, I don't know. Do you have questions about the story?

[29:12] Mike Abrams: Well, I have. I mean, I have a lot of questions because I want to hear like, I've heard a little bit of what you've said, essentially, which is there's like a loose interpretation of the Cats, what I'd call the Cats Bible, but it kind of changes production to production. And it's, it's almost like a, I always call it a game of telephone. Like there was what you heard from Trevor and, you know, the initial very first, like, here's what exactly what we thought. But I don't think that some of the thought that the fans have gone into were actually even thought about, you know, like the, there's probably some relationships that the fans have put together that nobody else has thought about. And then now it seems like over time there's been, okay, this is definitely true.

This could be true. We don't actually think about this. So I'm curious as a director, how much do you, how much do you go into? And maybe I can just start naming you some characters and you can tell me if any of these theories are correct or incorrect because there's, I mean, I get conflicting answers just from actors, even who have played them of like, I'll give an example of is Victoria, Grizabella's daughter or not? Like that's one where you get conflicting answers.

[30:15] Jacob Brent: So that's a hard no. Absolutely not. Okay. Let's start. Okay. I think we should just go through this. I mean, I don't know. It just depends on who plays it. I think, you know, if that's what the show was also so open that you could play it that way, but I've never heard that from Trevor, from Jillian, from anyone like that information. Yeah, that's not, I have not heard that. I'm not saying that you can't play that. I've also like, Mistoffelees and Victoria are not a couple. They're not, they're not. No, that's a big one. Everybody wants Tugger and Mistoffelees together. It's not, it's not, that's not gonna happen. Like, no, I think in, I think in real life, there's been some Tugger and Mistoffelees connections that have been made in some productions.

And so that's why that kind of comes through. But yeah, that, that is not a thing. Yeah. So I guess the biggest thing is for me and with Mistoffelees is that, you know, he's like, he's sort of like, also Mistoffelees should be about like 13 years old. He's not like an adult. He is like this, this like teen kid who has these magical powers. And what we came up with, and I think a lot of like, I think a lot of the solidifying the story came from doing the movie, came from re going back in, looking at it, all these people knowing their characters so well and coming in and saying, what if we did this? Like, wouldn't this be, this always makes sense to me that I would react to this cat this way. And we said, okay, so if you do that, like what was the story there?

We had the time to be like, figure that out. So this is a big one that I've always played is that actually Mistoffelees is actually Old Deuteronomy's son, which is going to blow some people's minds when they're here. The reason why is that he does have magical powers, just like, right. He can make things appear that thing. And this is why Old Deuteronomy, I feel like this is so crazy that we're talking about this so seriously, but I love it. But this is why Old Deuteronomy has come to the Jellicle ball tonight. He doesn't always show up, but he, but he's heard about this cat that probably could be his offspring. We don't know, probably. And he wants to come see what he's doing. So that is why he comes.

And that is also why, um, there's a whole Demeter part to it too, which I will, we'll get into, but I think that is the biggest connection. And Ken Page, who's just Santa Claus, love him so much. And I found that doing the movie and, um, that iconic jump into his arms. And when I look like his ear, right. And snuggle him that none of us are acting. That man is the most, uh, I love that man so much. And he helped me through so much of the movie. And I think that's why that resonates so much is because that, that take we didn't, there was no acting. I just jumped in his arms and I was like, I love you so much. Like, thank you for so, for everything. And I think that is what comes off. But I think that's the big thing that we found Ken and Jillian.

And I found that, that he would come to see, he wanted to check out what Mistoffelees was doing. And that's why he shows up. He doesn't come every year. No. MonkaStrap is in charge. MonkaStrap would pick the one.

[34:13] Mike Abrams: Wow. I don't think I've ever thought about that. I've always just assumed he's almost like pseudo killer vibe of like, I come in every year to.

[34:19] Jacob Brent: No, no, no. This is why it's such a big deal when we're like, when we smell him and we, we get that scent and we go, wait a minute, Old Deuteronomy, like you guys, he's like, he's here. We don't know. Like it is, this should be like, if you believe in Christmas, it should be like Santa Claus is here. Like this is major.

[34:42] Mike Abrams: And the, the part of you saying that like, Hey, he's coming to see Mistoffelees. Is that the like angle that you take as Mistoffelees to pump yourself up? Or is that the like, as you, as a director would go in and say like, the only reason he's showing up this year is to see his son that he's heard about is magical.

[35:02] Jacob Brent: He is. Um, I think he just travels. I think it's just, it's not that he's never been, he's been before, but he doesn't always come. And I think it's this year. He's like, ah, I'm going to go. I'm going to make sure I'm there this year. I want to see this kid. I don't think, I don't think Mistoffelees knows. I don't think you can play like dad he's home. Like that's wrong. I think, I think Deuteronomy knows, but hasn't, I don't think Mistoffelees knows that Deuteronomy is related. I don't think you can play that because then it's too familiar.

[35:40] Jacob Brent: All of them, all of them still above any of them. Demeter. Oh, here's the thing with Demeter. What was your question with Demeter?

[35:49] Mike Abrams: Well, I, I, this is why I've, I've kind of argued jokingly that I don't think kids. And I now I've, uh, argued this to be teens should see this show because it's got a very dark background. And it's because the one truth that everyone always tells me, it's like, to your point, you could say you have the, like, Hey, misto and, um, tuggers are not together. Hey, this is not this, but everyone seems convinced that Demeter was sexually abused by Macavity. And it's like, that's the one core everyone's like, there's no arguing there. And I'm like, how is that the one backstory of this very off, you know, like positive dance, heavy musical is like, but our one truth is, is that this one cat was sexually abused by the villain. Um, and so that's been always like a weird piece as I've, like, I didn't know any of this stuff when I saw this, I watched it and I thought, Oh, this was fun. And then all of a sudden I started reading the backstories and it's crazy.

[36:41] Jacob Brent: Yeah. Yeah, that is true. That is true. Um, so she is captured. Demeter has been captured by Macavity. Yeah. Right. I'm sorry. I'm getting the, let me make sure I have the cats. Right. Uh, Demeter's captured by Macavity and probably sexually abused and mistreated and all the things. Right. Um, she knows that this is the one time a year that everybody gathers. So in her mind, she's like, I've got to get to the Jellicle ball because I know I'll be safe with everybody else. And that's why at the beginning we see a cat running, the car lights come, catch the cat. It's Demeter. Demeter is escaping Macavity to come to the safety of the group. Um, and this is what causes Macavity to come to interrupt everything.

Right. Um, which is the point they missed in the movie, which I was like, if anybody would have called me, I could have saved you a couple of million. Um, but, uh, uh, yeah, so that, that whole point is true. And, uh, yeah, we, you, we, we play that. I think the Demeters that get that are the most successful. Um, that's why Demeter is skittish. That's why she, she is the reacts the way she does. She's untrusty. She does. That is why Demeter knows Grizabella because Demeter has been outside and has seen Grizabella. And that's why Demeter can sing about Grizabella because she has actually been on the streets and seeing her.

[38:18] Mike Abrams: Wow. Okay. So, so yeah, so she's not just like in the tribe the whole time. She's kind of had her moment away and that's why she's, you know, recognizes there's right. And, and that's her like empathy with Grizabella because she's also been on the outside. Um, and so when you get that connection, you're like, Ooh, interesting. And usually the Demeters cover Grizabella. So that's always an interesting thing too. So I want to go back and we're going to go through more cats because I have a lot more questions. So, but I love it. But when you, but when you're doing this, you said you got usually two weeks and you're going to do your day or two of storytelling and you have everybody sitting in a circle, do you start telling the story from start to finish of like, Hey, here's the story of the Jellicles and what you're going to do? Or do you go cat by cat of like, okay, here's now Demeter, you've been on the outside and here like exactly what you just kind of told me.

[39:03] Jacob Brent: I'd sort of say a general thing. I talk about Demeter coming together and then as the time goes, I just kind of like give people nuggets. Um, individually, that's the way it was given to us. Do you have this like written down anywhere? Like, is there like your cat, your own Cats Bible? I do need to publish this. No, no, no. You need to hire me cause I have the information. Um, but yeah, then you, then you sort of give it away like in pieces to this person and this person because you also want that like reaction to of like, um, of how, how someone would react to them.

[39:59] Jacob Brent: I'm getting a message. I'm going to turn this off. I want to go through a couple others because, and you know, obviously don't give away your bargaining chip to get hired in the future. So, you know, we don't have to go that far. But it's also not mine to write. Like, you know what I mean? I didn't create the show. So, it's not mine to like publish and make money off of. That's Jillian's, at the nucleus of the show is Jillian Lent. And that is hers to... I just, I think there's a world where people want it. Because there's so many questions. Like, there's just so many questions. Like, if you go to the fan Wikipedia page, the headcanon stuff, there's like four different answers on some. And it's because somebody in 2016 did this.

And someone in Original Broadway did this. And the movie did this. It's kind of what makes it fun. But at the same time, I'm like, there's probably, there's a definitive answer to some of this stuff. Like some of this stuff, it has started somewhere. And some of it might just be an actor taking some liberties, which you would have to do in a show that is as open-ended in a sense as Cats is. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's room for that. I think, you know, we've seen that with this current production. There's room to interpret and like add new things. And I think as long as it's in the story, right? And the world and the, you know, that it doesn't go off crazy. Like, you know, suddenly Skimbleshanks is something else.

And, you know, it's like, no, Skimbleshanks is this. He represents this. And he should always represent this. Now, can you do different stuff with that? Of course. But he should be everyone's favorite uncle. You know, sometimes he tap dances, like in the movie. I thought that was a great addition. Like have him tap dance on the railroad tracks. That's awesome. But yeah, I just think as long as you're not like changing the folklore, right? And I think that's where it's like, where I have problems with like, you know, people are going to come for me, don't come for me. But even things in Wicked let I feel like, oh, I don't know if that's true. Like that didn't, and really? We're supposed to believe that?

Okay. Like that seems different than the Wizard of Oz. Like we've taken a lot of liberties here, but okay. This is not a Wicked. People have accepted that a little bit of like that. They did take some, not like extreme liberties, but they definitely took some liberties there. Cause when people have asked me, you know, when I first started this, if I was going to ever look at any other podcasts and everyone's like, you should talk about Wicked. Cause it was the same type of thing of there's some, there's some unanswered questions that people would want to dig into, but I'm Cats through and through. Okay. You cover Skimbleshanks. You cover a little bit about what's around me. Let's talk about Jennyanydots.

Jenny, come on. She's everyone's favorite. I don't think that's true. I think she's, she's pretty universally hated by a lot of people. No. Oh yeah. Jennyanydots. Oh, she is just, uh, she is a ball of fun. She loves to do all the local productions. She's in all the, you know, she's the star of everything. She sews all the costumes. She made those nice costumes. She made those, um, she decorated the evening. She was the one that got there early and put up the Christmas lights. She just, she is that, like, she should be that like first grade teacher that everyone loves. Okay. So she's, is she mom to a bunch of these cats too? I think she's a mom figure. I don't know if, I don't know if she actually has any of these cats and also like maybe, but Jenny has a collar.

So that's the other thing that I don't know if people have talked about that, whether you have a collar or not a collar and Jenny has a collar. So she definitely has a family. She is definitely taken care of. Um, so I don't know if she has, she did. I don't think she brought any of her children with her to this point, but she does take care of them. She sees them out the window and she goes, Oh, there goes Silhouette. Okay. And then when she sees her, she takes care of her. What about Bustopher? Bustopher. Oh, we'd love Bustopher. Well, he's just everyone's just favorite. I keep saying that about every cat, but they are, um, you know, he's that big alley cat that just kind of everyone takes care of.

He comes around and gets the scraps from all the pubs and everyone loves him. What's his role with the Jellicles? Like does he have a role? No, no, no, no. He is actually, he's just a passerby. He's actually, he's like a visitor. He's not really part of our tribe, but he kind of comes in and he visits and we love him and he goes on his way to the next one. He's probably visiting several tribes this evening. You know, we're not the only Jellicle tribe. There are many, this is just the one that we are looking at. Yeah. Okay. So that's, that's going to be a question I'm going to ask her a second. I want to ask about the tribe in general, but, um, I want to go through, I want to go through Gus cause I think Gus is obviously a major contender for Jellicle choice.

Well, Gus would have been chosen. Gus was the choice. So Gus was a choice until Grizabella came back. Gus was the choice beforehand. Munkustrap knows this. Jellylorum knows this. Everyone sort of knows it's Gus's year. God bless him. He's made it. We can't believe he's even made it to this. And it's not until Grizabella shows up that we go, Oh, wait a minute. And it probably would not be Grizabella if Deuteronomy was not there and said, wait a minute. Maybe you should look at Grizabella. Like Gus's go. Okay. Gus will be all fine. He's had a great life. He's lived a great life. We can, let's look at choosing Grizabella. Um, cause we'll learn something. The bigger picture, the bigger lesson will be from choosing Grizabella.

Hold that thought. Cause that's my last question. And we're going to go deep into that. Cause I have a lot of thoughts and questions for you about that particular choice. Because it's, it's the, was the right cat chosen? I have two answers for you, but yes, I'm holding on to it. Um, I, I will ask one more question about the, like the, as a director and kind of going through this and about the, the, like you're, we see one ball and it's an annual thing. And I think I hadn't thought about, I thought it would do rhyme is there every year and that the cats can all come together from different parts. And this is like an annual cultish tribe tradition where they do their sacrifice. But you're kind of saying it's, it's not always that it's like, we're seeing this one, this is a really unique party.

We're seeing that because Old Deuteronomy is coming to see his son for the first time, or maybe in a long time. And Bustopher is kind of passing through and he's not actually even part of this tribe necessarily, but is this non-annual thing? Like, is that, is that the way we look at this? It's absolutely annual for these. It's just that these parts don't always happen. So Jellicle cats meet once a year, right? That's in the, that's in the text. So we know that that is true. Munkustrap is in charge, usually in charge. This thing is Deuteronomy is coming in. He's also late. He's not there at the beginning. Right? So this is a thing that if you, if it's a, it's a special thing that he's coming.

Um, Grizabella is not always there. She just, she knows that this is the night. So she, she's going to try. She's also probably heard because she's late as well, that Deuteronomy is there. So she's like, I got to get there. This is it. This is my one shot. I got to get there. So it is, I think there's, there's, you've got to think of this night as it happens once a year. There is a plan. Jenny's not really, she's not, those early cats, Tumblebrutus isn't really going for it. Jenny isn't going for it. They're just performing because it's a party and they're, they're happy to be there. Um, and no one's really going for it, which is why that's like this competition thing, because we've already decided it's already been decided that it's Gus.

Like Gus is getting it. 100%. Um, the rest of us are just like having a party performing for each other. Um, it isn't until, uh, I lost my train of thought, but like this, um, the Grizabella comes in and Deuteronomy comes in and Demeter comes in and Macavity comes in with these major interruptions to the night that give the, um, you know, to give the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the conflict. Sorry. Can't even think of the word. The conflict of the evening are these four major interruptions to the night? If not, it would just be a nice little, like American Idol ball. And we'd perform and go home. Yes. So, so do you think if I'm like, if I'm last year, last year's ball, somebody gets, it's picked Munkustrap.

Now is doing it. Old Deuteronomy is not even there. Grizabella is still out in her own Bustopher might not show up. Like it's just not a big thing. No, I think it is a big thing. Okay. I think it's a big thing, but it's a, a heightened thing this year. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's major this year for some reason, because all these things have converged. This is like the year. Oh my God. Were you there? Were you there that year for just Jellicle ball? Like, I think we pick, I think we pick one. Everyone applauds. Yeah. We send them on their way. Somehow this tire doesn't always go up because Deuteronomy is not always there. This is like, so when that tire goes up and we're like, whoa, my God, like we're, the cats are freaking out because this doesn't happen.

We don't see this. So you don't make a Jellicle sacrifice every year. Yes. Yes. But not, not as dramatic as this. Right. It could be like, Gus has chosen, but not, not as dramatic as this. Right. It could be like, Gus has chosen. We're going to choose Gus. He walks around the corner and he's gone. Like, it's no big deal. So interesting. Okay. Um, I want to get to the final piece cause this is worth it. So we're, I want to start with a rapid fire, rapid fire. It'd be a couple of quick questions that we're going to talk about Grizabella and the Jellicle choice. Okay. So, um, if you were to go on, uh, for one night, not as Mistoffelees, who would you want to play as for just one night? What cat would you, what track would you want to do?

Oh, Skimbleshanks. Skimbleshanks. Love it. What are, who are your four Gus? Skimbleshanks or Gus? I have to get older Gus. But yeah. Cause I understand Gus. Okay. You know, but yeah, you could do through the years. You can play all the different characters. Um, who are your favorite and least favorite Jellicle cats? Oh, you're going to get me in trouble.

[51:27] Jacob Brent: Uh, I, I, oh God, I love all of them for, for different reasons, but I think there's something really magical about that triangle, uh, Coricopat, Tantomile, Cassandra. Um, that mystic thing that they have, that I really, that I really love. And then my least is probably like, uh, I, I guess Plato like Plato is Macavity. That's like not Macavity because it's like, I don't really know what Plato is doing there other than giving somebody a stage time. Yeah. It's dancing. That's, that's my answer is, is Peter from the 2016, which is just another one. All the people that have played Plato and Macavity. But I'm just saying like, as a story, you're like, what is Plato doing here? Totally. I, I always say this is, this is character, not actor and performer. Um, what's your favorite song from the show?

[52:25] Jacob Brent: Oh gosh. I, I don't know. Um, but I also love that Overture. If I can pick the Overture because it is so 1982 and it is just, I don't know, maybe because I just heard it for so many years of my life that it just, it just, once you hear that, thinking it's anything else, like, you know, that is Cats.

[53:18] Jacob Brent: I was in the original Broadway production of CATS for over nine years, and it was such a transformative experience for me. I started as a swing and eventually became Mr. Mistoffelees, which was a dream role.

[53:48] Jacob Brent: The character of Mr. Mistoffelees is so magical and full of energy. I loved bringing that character to life every night on stage. The audience's reaction was always incredible, especially during the big number where he performs his magic.

[54:18] Jacob Brent: One of the highlights of my time in CATS was definitely the camaraderie among the cast. We were like a family, and we all supported each other through the ups and downs of performing eight shows a week.

[54:48] Jacob Brent: When I transitioned to directing various productions of CATS, it was fascinating to see how different interpretations could bring new life to the show. Each production had its unique flair, and I loved being part of that creative process.

[55:08] Jacob Brent: The 1998 movie was a unique experience. It was surreal to see the characters I had portrayed on stage come to life in a film. The filming process was quite different from performing live, and it presented its own set of challenges.

[55:18] Jacob Brent: I remember the excitement of being on set, but there were also moments of uncertainty about how the final product would turn out. It was a different kind of magic, but I was proud to be part of it.

[55:28] Jacob Brent: The backstories of the characters in CATS are so rich and varied. Each cat has its own journey, and I think that's part of what makes the show so compelling.

[55:38] Jacob Brent: Mr. Mistoffelees, for instance, is not just a magical cat; he has a deep connection to the other characters, especially in how he helps them find their place in the Jellicle world.

[55:48] Jacob Brent: I think audiences resonate with the themes of belonging and acceptance that are woven throughout the show. It's a universal message that speaks to everyone.

[55:58] Jacob Brent: I would love to dive deeper into the character backstories in a future conversation. There's so much to explore, and I think fans would appreciate hearing more about the nuances of each character.

[56:08] Jacob Brent: The process of creating a character is fascinating. You have to find the balance between what is written in the script and what you bring to the role personally.

[56:18] Jacob Brent: I always felt that Mr. Mistoffelees was a reflection of my own journey as a performer. His magic represents the joy and wonder that comes with pursuing your dreams.

[56:28] Jacob Brent: I think that's why the character has remained so beloved over the years. People see a bit of themselves in him, and that connection is powerful.

[56:38] Jacob Brent: The choreography for Mr. Mistoffelees is also a huge part of what makes the character special. It requires a lot of precision and energy, and I loved every moment of it.

[56:48] Jacob Brent: I remember the first time I performed the number in front of an audience. The adrenaline rush was incredible, and it felt like I was flying.

[56:58] Jacob Brent: It's moments like those that remind you why you fell in love with performing in the first place.

[57:08] Jacob Brent: I think the legacy of CATS continues to inspire new generations of performers and audiences alike. It's a timeless story that will always have a place in musical theatre.

[57:18] Jacob Brent: I'm excited to see how future productions will interpret the material. There's always room for innovation and creativity in the world of theatre.

[57:28] Jacob Brent: If anyone has questions about the show or the characters, I would be more than happy to answer them.

[57:38] Jacob Brent: I think it's important to keep the conversation going about CATS and its impact on the theatre community.

[57:48] Jacob Brent: The passion from fans is what keeps the spirit of the show alive, and I appreciate every single one of them.

[57:58] Jacob Brent: Thank you for having me on the podcast. It's been a pleasure to share my experiences and insights about CATS.

[58:08] Jacob Brent: I look forward to possibly doing a part two where we can delve even deeper into the characters and their stories.

[58:18] Jacob Brent: There's so much more to discuss, and I think it would be a lot of fun to explore those topics together.

[58:28] Jacob Brent: Until next time, keep the magic of CATS alive in your hearts!

[58:38] Jacob Brent: I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on my journey and the incredible experiences I've had with CATS.

[58:48] Jacob Brent: It's a show that has shaped my life in so many ways, and I'm grateful for every moment.

[58:58] Jacob Brent: Thank you again for this wonderful conversation.

[59:08] Jacob Brent: I hope to connect with everyone soon, whether it's through social media or future events.

[59:18] Jacob Brent: Let's keep celebrating the magic of theatre together!

[59:28] Jacob Brent: Take care, everyone!

[59:38] Jacob Brent: Until next time!

[59:48] Jacob Brent: Bye for now!

[59:58] Jacob Brent: See you soon!

[1:00:08] Jacob Brent: Stay safe and keep dreaming!

[1:00:18] Jacob Brent: Remember, the magic is always within you.

[1:00:28] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:00:38] Jacob Brent: Thank you!

[1:00:48] Jacob Brent: Appreciate it!

[1:00:58] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:01:08] Jacob Brent: Take care!

[1:01:18] Jacob Brent: Until next time!

[1:01:28] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:01:38] Jacob Brent: Thank you!

[1:01:48] Jacob Brent: Appreciate it!

[1:01:58] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:02:08] Jacob Brent: Take care!

[1:02:18] Jacob Brent: Until next time!

[1:02:28] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:02:38] Jacob Brent: Thank you!

[1:02:48] Jacob Brent: Appreciate it!

[1:02:58] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:03:08] Jacob Brent: Take care!

[1:03:18] Jacob Brent: Until next time!

[1:03:28] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:03:38] Jacob Brent: Thank you!

[1:03:48] Jacob Brent: Appreciate it!

[1:03:58] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:04:08] Jacob Brent: Take care!

[1:04:18] Jacob Brent: Until next time!

[1:04:28] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:04:38] Jacob Brent: Thank you!

[1:04:48] Jacob Brent: Appreciate it!

[1:04:58] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:05:08] Jacob Brent: Take care!

[1:05:18] Jacob Brent: Until next time!

[1:05:28] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:05:38] Jacob Brent: Thank you!

[1:05:48] Jacob Brent: Appreciate it!

[1:05:58] Jacob Brent: Bye!

[1:06:08] Jacob Brent: Take care!

[1:06:18] Jacob Brent: Until next time!

[1:06:28] Jacob Brent: Bye!