(This was an automatically generated transcript and may contain small grammatical or typographical errors.)

Patrick Oliver Jones:

There are parts of this industry that remain thrilling and exciting, while other parts can feel stressful or even demoralizing, especially when it comes to the judgment we face from others or from ourselves. I've had times where I am energized and confident, ready to take on an audition or a performance, But then I mess up or something doesn't go quite right, and the self-doubt creeps in, making everything feel harder or more hopeless than it should. Back in 2017, I saw an off-Broadway production of A Clockwork Orange, and it starred an actor named Misha Osherovich, whom I started following on Instagram. A couple of years went by, and one day I was scrolling when I came across this rather lengthy and serious post. Misha shared about struggles with body image and eating disorder thoughts, about how easy it is in this industry to tie our worth to how we look. I was really struck by what was said, so I reached out to offer what support I could, and in the middle of that exchange, I took a chance and extended an invite to share those stories on Why I'll Never Make It. Misha graciously said yes. and the result is one of the most candid conversations I've had on the podcast.

Whether we were talking about body image, mental health, or personal fears, Misha spoke with an honesty that was unflinching, yet always grounded in kindness and empathy. Also, just a quick note, at the time of this interview in 2019, Misha was using he/him pronouns, but now identifies as non-binary using they/she. And to this day, Misha continues to be an advocate for the queer community and mental healthcare access. It is just so rare to hear someone in this industry just let their guard down and talk about struggles so openly. That's something that I strive for with every episode, and Misha embodied that completely.

Misha Osherovich:

I know this is a giant part of my artistic history, but working in in spite of something or some force, for lack of a better phrase, proving people wrong.

Welcome to Why I'll Never Make It, an award-winning theater podcast about the realities of a career in the arts. I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones, a Broadway actor here in New York City. And as we head into the 10th season of this podcast, I wanted to take a moment to look back at 10 guests who have been so meaningful over the years. Their stories, honesty, and lessons are still just as relevant today, reminding us of what it really takes to keep creating, performing, and showing up in this business.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Misha, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Misha Osherovich:

Thank you for having me.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And for coming to my home, even.

Misha Osherovich:

Yes, which is such a far trek. I live literally a block away.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Right. I'm finding a lot of us actor folk, there's either Brooklyn or it's kind of Washington Heights. Those seem to be the extremes where people live now.

Misha Osherovich:

It's that and maybe a little bit of Astoria. But you truly— I mean, I certainly bought into the myth when I, when I moved to the city a couple of years ago after school, like all the actors live in Harlem or Washington Heights. In Heights, that's where we live.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And well, there's something about being in Manhattan. Yeah, your address is New York, New York.

Misha Osherovich:

Exactly.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So I do kind of like that. I mean, Queens, New York is fine. Brooklyn, New York is fine.

Misha Osherovich:

Sure. And admittedly, I do love Brooklyn. I'm kind of sad that I didn't move to Brooklyn, but I'm here and I like the neighborhood. I like that it's a bit quieter. There's some amount of peace that you can achieve, sort of. It's New York. So yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, speaking of coming to the city, your name is obviously very Russian. And so your parents came here from Russia in the '70s, I believe. And what brought them here?

Misha Osherovich:

So my parents are both— they're scientists, and they both actually came from slightly bougie Russian families. So they're pretty well known, both of them individually, my mother's family, my father's. And they were Jewish as well. So we're Russian Jewish, not just Russian. And my parents lived in Soviet Russia, which being Jewish was— it still is a problem in Russia, but it was much more of a problem then, right? And so both families individually actually experienced quite a bit of discrimination. My mom has this story where her father is was a prominent Russian lawyer, or Jewish lawyer, and the government, in an effort to sabotage him and his life, changed my mom's exam times at Moscow University without telling her, hoping that she would show up late enough that she wouldn't be able to take the test and would not pass her first year at Moscow University.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Wow.

Misha Osherovich:

She showed up, 'cause she's my mom, so she shows up hours early. They say, oh, Elena, you know, your exam is almost over, you missed your time, and she goes, let me take it. They go, it's a 4-hour exam and you have less than 2 hours to take it. She takes it, passes, immediately moves to Israel, and then from Israel went to the US. But she, just to make a point, passes the exam, and then she's like, I'm done with Russia, goodbye.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, well, at least she was able to leave.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, good. It's true. And that my parents both left during that very famous initial wave of the, of Russian history when they were allowing people to first start leaving the Soviet Union.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Okay.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So they moved to the US. And did you grow up as a Russian Jew yourself? Did they instill that culture and that heritage?

Misha Osherovich:

Absolutely. Culture and heritage. We I did not grow up religious. My mother, because she moved to Israel and lived there for 10 years and had my half-brother there, she, the Jewish heritage and culture is very important to her regardless of religion. But I was not bar mitzvahed, neither was my sister, wasn't bat mitzvahed, but we grew up with a respect for Jewish heritage and just an understanding that the opportunity for my mom to leave Russia and go to Israel and live amongst very supportive Jewish friends and family in Israel for 10 years was so important to her coming of age and becoming an adult outside of her home country that I think I'll always have a respect for the Jewish side of culture. But I identify as Russian more so, and my parents have a deep love and respect for Russian history and culture.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Absolutely. Well, your name certainly stands out, and so it's hard not to associate the Russian ancestry with you.

Misha Osherovich:

Yes, indeed. And arguably, speaking Russian and being of Russian heritage is one of the only reasons that I'm— I at least initially started working in TV and film, because Americans are fascinated with Russian culture, and I think there will always be Russian characters popping up.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, yeah, because whether it was during the Cold War or then, you know, once the wall came down and then the Cold War was kind of— we were trying to figure out what is the US-Russia relationship. And now of course Russia's even bigger with their influence on our own elections and this and that. So it's always been this back and forth between our two countries.

Misha Osherovich:

Absolutely. And it's, you know, not to get too ahead of us or myself, but the next film that I'm producing has very much to do with my Russian heritage and how being queer intersects with that. So I think Russia's history is both beautiful and amazing and also has— is so fraught with deep-rooted problems.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah.

Misha Osherovich:

So, and arguably that's why so many amazing artists come out of Russia, because they've lived under some form of oppression and, you know, who isn't going to create beautiful art when you're constantly thinking about the meaning of life and how either oppressed or, you know, problematic your society is?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, I think for all of us as artists that, you know, we certainly love the successes and the wonderful things that come along with being it, but when we hit those roadblocks, those setbacks, it does kind of propel us to a different level. Maybe not be a higher level, who knows, but it's definitely a different level of how we express ourselves and the kind of art we create.

Misha Osherovich:

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think there's something to be said for— and I know this is a giant part of my artistic history— but working in spite of something or some force, for lack of a better phrase, proving people wrong. Or, I mean, maybe that's me being a little shit.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, that's always just fun anyway, regardless of any art form.

Misha Osherovich:

Sure. I'm very proud of the culture that I come from. And as I, for example, work on this, even this next film, I interviewed my parents as I was starting to research this next film. And it's I'm really interested to see where my Russian heritage and culture leads me, especially working on a film where I'm playing a Russian character now for the second time. It's starting to weave itself into my artistry too.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Growing up with the Russian heritage and the Jewish heritage behind you, how did the arts interweave in both of those?

Misha Osherovich:

So it's fascinating because my parents are both scientists, as are to some extent all of my siblings, at least they're very technical.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So you're the black sheep.

Misha Osherovich:

I— the blackest of sheep. I am the queer one, the artist, the— oh goodness, all the things. But discipline and artistic discipline, or any discipline really, was wildly important in my household. Education above all else was what my parents instilled in all of the kids. I started piano lessons at, I believe, 4. I started singing lessons shortly after that, and it was demanded of me that I approach them with a rigor just like I was supposed to be getting straight A's in high-level classes at school. So all of the later developments of me wanting to be an artist professionally might have, you know, did cause a good amount of tension in my very kind of technically minded parents. But a respect for the arts— I grew up going to opera with my parents regularly.

Misha Osherovich:

I grew up going to classical music concerts with them.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Did your siblings also get that same piano lessons at school and that kind of thing?

Misha Osherovich:

We all had to play, I think, 2 instruments. I played flute and piano. I showed more enthusiasm than anything else, but my boy soprano voice was, I'm not gonna lie, amazing.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So I was a boy soprano until 9th grade, and I held on to it as long as I could.

Misha Osherovich:

That's impressive.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah.

Misha Osherovich:

Oh no, my voice changed to this quickly.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, you're not a boy soprano anymore.

Misha Osherovich:

No, not—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

nope.

Misha Osherovich:

Um, once they realized that that was where my— at the time I was quite passionate about it. My parents really didn't give it a second thought in terms of pushing me to excel in it. So I found myself in the most prestigious children's chorus in D.C. We performed— I did a, you know, a 2-week tour of Italy with that chorus when I was a boy soprano. I sang with Washington National Opera in one of their professional productions in the children's chorus.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And so being on stage has been with you for a long time.

Misha Osherovich:

Yes. Yeah. But there was a giant break. There was a— I, I was artistically minded and performative as a child, and then life happened and adulting happened and growing up happened, and I had no concept that maybe later in life I'd be performing or be an artist.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Now, you mentioned that your, your parents were certainly supportive as you were learning these instruments and going to the operas and that, but then once you decided 'Oh, now I think I want to study this and do it professionally.' There was some resistance to that?

Misha Osherovich:

Yes. Um, and sort of just to like get into it, I, I, around, you know, 14, I became a pretty bad kid. Like, I— rebellion, just straight-up rebellion, running away from home. I got— I managed to get kicked out of two public high schools in a row in the same year.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Which is tough to do these days because public schools will just take anyone.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah. Oh no. Yeah, I was— I— if I was going to excel, I was going to excel at everything, including messing up, I guess. So I was just— and I would say a lot of this had to do with my queer identity, I think, because that was right around the time when I was really grappling with, oh, I— this is a part of me, and I'm definitely gay. I'm definitely queer. These are things that they were brewing quite heavily at the time. And No discredit to my parents at all, but again, they come from Soviet Russia where it's— I mean, we know now, even we see the way that Russia is interacting with their queer citizens at the moment. It's, it's very problematic.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, I mean, because I visited a few times Saint Petersburg.

Misha Osherovich:

You're lucky. That's amazing.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, and so it is definitely part of— they just don't acknowledge it. They don't at all.

Misha Osherovich:

It's— and trust me, I know. I'll never forget this one moment that it was burned into my memory. I must have been like 5, maybe 4. I needed— I got LASIK, but I needed very thick, like nerdy Harry Potter glasses even as a baby. I was 1.5 points away from legally blind. Oh wow. Yeah, it was nuts. But we were at the beach as a family, and I don't have my glasses on because we don't want them to get lost in the ocean, but I see a boat with one of those banners on it, like an advertisement, and I asked my dad, what does it say? And my dad turns and looks at the boat and says, best His voice changes utterly.

Misha Osherovich:

Dancing at the beach. And walks away. And something on that sign clearly affected him. So I sprint back to the towel, get my glasses, and that was the moment when I first saw the word gay. Best gay dancing on the beach was this advertisement. The mention of the word gay, the idea of these people being real, scared my parents so much that they couldn't even say it to me. Interesting. And that— I don't think there's ever been a moment more, especially with my dad, that it's been so indicative of how they've been raised to approach queers in general.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And I grew up in the South, which is very similar. It's— I mean, they certainly acknowledge that it happens, but they acknowledge it in a way that, well, that's not how we do things, you know? It's like, yes, you may feel that way, but you need to make this other choice. It's more of something to acknowledge but change, you know? And so, and so for me, it was 13-ish whenever I started realizing my feelings for same-sex attraction. And it was one of those that was just like, oh, I shouldn't be having this. And so I just kind of kept it hidden, kept it underneath.

Misha Osherovich:

It immediately felt like a problem, right?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Right. It felt like a problem that I needed to deal with, and I need to change this and not, and not give in to it, you know. So in some way, it was very similar in the way that I grew up. And it— but it wasn't anything that I spoke to my mother about at all, you know.

Misha Osherovich:

For sure.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It was just something that I kept inside and tried to deal with on my own.

Misha Osherovich:

Isn't that the story?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Not let anyone know about it. Which, you know, you're going to look at a guy too long, something's going to happen and people are going to start to— are you looking at me? What? What? And then it's like, no, no, no. And then just run away.

Misha Osherovich:

No, it's— oh gosh, I don't know. I'm very happy. I mean, you know, obviously I— that aspect of myself I love quite dearly. I've been really embracing the queer community and the— I recently was chatting with somebody and I'm stealing this from them, but being queer is being in the other and celebrating being in the other. And that really was one of the more recent light bulbs that I— whether it's with gender fluidity or with who you're attracted to, how you identify as a human, there's so many aspects aspects to being queer that are just, they are again celebrating being in the other. And once I latched onto that, I truly think I found my at peace situation with being queer. I think it was that kind of final puzzle piece of, right then, I am in some ways an other category in society and that's amazing. That just means I'm that much more of a unique, different perspective human in culture and society.

Misha Osherovich:

How awesome is that?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And I think that's a big reason why, why there's such an LGBT community in the arts, because the arts are already kind of this other thing, because, you know, the 9-to-5ers, or maybe you do sports, or, you know, business, or those things are understood and seen, and people have that in their lives, no matter who they are. But the arts is something other. It's something different, that it's a different way of thinking. And whether you're a dancer, whether you're a singer, it's a way of expressing ourselves that I don't think most people understand.

Misha Osherovich:

Well, there's no rulebook.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, yeah, that's true. And it's completely unique for the individual.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, absolutely. I— and that makes a lot of sense. And I think also there's something to be said for, again, the oppression thing of when you as a person or as a group of people feel oppressed or kicked to the outside of society, I think one of the natural human inclinations is to create. So it doesn't surprise me that some of the most beautiful artwork that we know today comes from queer individuals.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And, and that oppression that you speak of is actually what kind of sparked this need and want to talk to you more about it, because it was something that you brought up. And the very first question was that recently you've been asking yourself, why are you in this industry? Why are you in the arts? And what prompted you to ask yourself that question?

Misha Osherovich:

It's been kind of a perfect storm of things. So I've been I don't even like to say lucky, but fortunate to work on some more commercially viable projects in TV and film and on stage too. And it's been amazing. And that's afforded me the opportunity to then start producing my own work. So naturally, when you start to produce your own work, and for me it was a short film at first about eating disorders, which is something that I'm— it's a cause and an issue that is very close to me. It's something that I've gone through. It's something that I'm actively in recovery from. And I guess thinking about producing my own work, I'm really building my own identity as an artist.

Misha Osherovich:

You start to ask yourself when you get either down or maybe not loving your body so much, and I know that I went through a bit of a dip in sort of my body image and self-esteem recently, and those dips happen. I just found myself the day of that post asking legitimately, why am I doing this? I was particularly stressed out about how I looked for a certain audition on camera. It was messing with my acting. I could tell that my acting was not as strong, that my work was not as strong as I'd like it to be, because I was stuck in my head with the comparison monster. The, um, the am I beautiful enough, am I good enough, tall enough, thin enough, whatever those enoughs are. Those demons were eating me more than they had been in a long time that day. And I mean, the wonderful thing about social media with all of the evils that come with it is that you're able to— oh, I heard this recently and it was so good— journal as if it's your diary, but with knowing that you are actually putting it out into the world for people to see, interact with, and hopefully like or resonate with. So in the spirit of that, I wrote the post and It just, it was a good reminder, honestly, for myself that I love the creative process.

Misha Osherovich:

I love creating work that I believe matters. And I love telling stories that I believe will have a social impact, whether it has to do with my queer identity, my relationship to body image, eating disorders, and addiction. If I get to spend the rest of my life creating telling and promoting those stories in an effort to have those conversations with people that both understand deeply and people that are hearing about these things for the first time, I will be a happy human. And that was the spirit in which I wrote the post, was trying to honestly remind myself that that's why I'm doing this, even when those comparison green-with-envy, you know, awful monsters that are in all of us, when they pop up, it was kind of a recentering. Yeah, if that makes sense.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

For me, I've not suffered through eating disorders or had that, but I definitely know about body image and not liking what I see in the mirror. And think back to 5, 10 years ago, you know, why can't I look like that? Or why can't I look like this person? As you said, the comparison game is, is very real in this industry. And it is one of those things that, that I have to remind myself. And also one thing that I love about being specifically in theater is that there, there is a place for all of us. It doesn't matter your size, your skin color, your gender. There is a place, there is a role for each of us. And I love that now over the, especially the last couple of years, I love now that there's more voices coming out and with that more roles and opportunities for people to, you know, maybe there's a larger person that's going to have this pivotal role in a play or a person of color or a woman transgender, all these different stories and things that can happen now in theater.

Misha Osherovich:

Well, there's stories that haven't been told at length or in detail before. Yeah. And it's— that's what I love about the time that we're in. It's a really exciting time to be in this industry. Like, truly, I mean that without any reservation, whether it's with diversity, representation, the kinds of stories that are being told, the way they're being told. It's that much messier and more real and more reflective of the world that we actually live in.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Misha Osherovich:

It's really exciting to me. I'm really glad to be kind of making my way in this industry at this time.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Certainly politics has always played a part, and the arts has always been kind of in that tug-of-war with the politics of the day. And I think that that's always going to be the case. And sometimes I don't like to be preached to in certain shows, but I think that one thing that I think, and hopefully we can all agree on, is that the individual stories of a person beyond politics, and when you get down to what is a person doing, what are they feeling, and what is their story that they're going through, we should all be able to listen to that and resonate with that. And to me, that's the the central element of what the arts can do, whether you're dancing it, whether you're singing it or acting it.

Misha Osherovich:

It humanizes people. It humanizes the— it humanizes characters that maybe you wouldn't have thought you could relate to. And it brings, at the end of the day, a giant audience of all kinds of different people together to view that story. And I— well, you know, that's amazing. It's theater.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And how have you personally used the arts? You talk about this film that you're working on. How have you used it to tell your own story and hopefully resonate? With others?

Misha Osherovich:

Sure. So the film is called Every Day. It's— the tagline is a day inside the minds of two individuals living with active eating disorders. And I am— it was— it was very much— it's very much autobiographical. It's myself and my co-producer and classmate Angelica Santiago, who also has her own struggles with eating disorders and is now actively in recovery as well. We found each other in school. We were showcase partners and it It was a very natural progression towards both being very passionate about our individual stories with eating disorders and wanting to tell that story. But funnily enough, the inspiration for the film was actually anti-inspiration.

Misha Osherovich:

I've coined that phrase and I don't know if it's at all useful to anybody besides me, but with respect to all filmmakers out there who are making content about mental health, I want to make that very clear. I saw recently a Netflix film called To the Bone. And it's with Lily Collins, who does a phenomenal job in it, wonderful actress. But the film, unfortunately in my opinion, glamorized eating disorders, which naturally, naturally you run the risk whenever you put something on stage or on screen, you do run the risk of glamorizing it by virtue of it being on a stage. Yeah, and that I understand.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

But I mean, it's the same thing that goes along with, you know, naming the people with these mass shootings, putting their picture up, naming them, and sensationalizing it. Yeah, there's a certain celebrity—

Misha Osherovich:

absolutely—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

that comes with that. So, so you're right, anytime something's in the public eye, then it kind of perks people up to that particular issue.

Misha Osherovich:

Exactly. So it's a very— especially with issues like mental health, it's a fine line for sure. But I really felt watching that film and having seen other content, limited content, about eating disorders in the past, I I had yet to see myself in those stories on screen, in books that I read while I was in treatment. I never felt like I saw myself and the messy, hard to chew on, very gray area human aspect of eating disorders. They are not clean cut. They're an incredibly insidious mental illness. And I felt very kind of driven, talk about in spite of things, very driven to make content, make something, make in this case a film about how I saw this disorder, how it really pervades every part of somebody's life.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I mean, maybe it's hard to answer, but how did that start to affect you? Like, can you think of a time or a moment when you started to see yourself in a certain way and eating or not eating was the only way to solve it?

Misha Osherovich:

So I— one thing that I love and that I learned in treatment, and one of the things that I kind of took away from going through treatment was genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. Yeah, so the capacity to develop an eating disorder, I think, is quite built into some people to an extent, and it's all about much like addictions.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Some people have more addictive personalities.

Misha Osherovich:

Absolutely. And I, I firmly believe that eating disorders are an addiction and in a lot of ways should be treated like an addiction. I mean, here's the problem: abstinence is not an option. For eating disorders. You can, you can take a bag of XYZ drugs away from an addict. You can't take an eating disorder away from somebody who has an eating disorder, nor can you avoid food because it's a basic human need. For me, I am a very Type A individual. Being in control makes me happy and it makes me feel like I understand what's going on in the world.

Misha Osherovich:

So right around when I was struggling with coming to terms with my queer identity, right around when I was becoming a full-fledged teenager. And I grew up, I was, you know, unashamedly, my doctors will attest to this, quite a chubby kid. You know, I kept the baby fat on for quite a while and—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Same here, yep.

Misha Osherovich:

I mean, how we move through the world in our bodies inevitably becomes part of our identity. And I was the kind of, for lack of a better way of saying it, fat-friendly kid with the glasses next door. That was what I grew up with. And something really— a switch flipped at 14 for me, and I decided that I wanted to make a change and that I wanted to shift my identity. I wanted to lose some weight, get healthier. And it was all in an effort to get both physically healthier and, you know, aesthetically more pleasing, I suppose.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah.

Misha Osherovich:

And being me, being the extremist that I am, I definitely fell over into the unhealthy side of things, and it devolved pretty quickly into an obsession. And I developed all kinds of unhealthy behaviors around eating or not eating. I had a very distorted relationship with exercise. I used it as a purging method to try to rid myself of any food that I'd eaten. And without getting too triggering and detailed in how I interacted with my eating disorder, it became the primary focus of my life. And I do believe that one really good way to gauge if you have disordered eating or distorted relationship with food in your body is if it occupies the majority of your brain space, food and your image and relationships to both your body and food, then I think that is something that needs to be addressed.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, I think that's the same with, with any addiction. If it's something that in the quiet moments, it's what you think of first, then it's probably something that Yeah, that you're obsessed with, right?

Misha Osherovich:

I, in the very first article that I wrote for National Eating Disorders Association— this is more recently— but I, I describe it as if you take one of those vibrating back massagers, you know, like the little handheld ones that kind of look like a little squid, right? Yeah, you get at CVS or something. Put it on the back of your head, turn it on, say medium, it's vibrating constantly, and then duct tape it around your jaw like a kind of messed up birthday hat. It's always in the back of your head. It's always vibrating, and sometimes it's stronger, sometimes it's weaker, but it's a voice that's always there. It's almost like a second brain.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Misha Osherovich:

And that is very much what happened to me. That combined with some drug issues growing up, and, you know, after a certain point with malnourishment, your brain starts to not function correctly. So I was running away. I had a very problematic older boyfriend. I'm All these things culminated in me getting kicked out of two public schools, and then I entered residential treatment for the next few years, all the way through high school. So talk about the— I mean, the gap that I—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

yeah, where you were doing artistic things and then your— I mean, your brain took over and you started focusing on other things.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, I mean, everything stopped. Everything stopped to the point that the only goal at the time was to not even trying to be dramatic, keep me alive and to get me through high school or high school age in some way, shape, or form.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Now, was it one of those things where you recognized the problem, or was it one of those where you, you thought you were doing the right thing and, and, and other people had to kind of show you?

Misha Osherovich:

You know, it really was the latter, um, which is strange to say now because It just goes to show you how much an addiction can affect and change your brain. But I went kicking and screaming into these treatment centers, you know. Everybody was against me. Nobody would let me do what I want. I just wanted to be with my boyfriend and have my— I didn't even call it an eating disorder. I called it the way I wanted to live. There was no name for it for me.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah.

Misha Osherovich:

I—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

you—

Misha Osherovich:

nothing in my and Misha's mind at the time, nothing was wrong.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

As you say, you went kicking and screaming to this treatment, to getting, you know, to getting help that you didn't think you needed. Was it working? What was— what you were doing working, and that's why you wanted to hold on to it?

Misha Osherovich:

Yes, in its own way, yes. We— I needed those coping mechanisms at the time. Because for whatever reason they were keeping me safe, happy, um, but they, they're not sustainable, obviously. But yeah, it was my armor. It was my thing that I could control. It was something that, you know, maybe if I just hold on to this amount of control and just eat this much or just exercise this much, then I will be honestly worthy enough. I will be worthwhile enough to live my life and do the things that I want to do. Um, your self-worth gets completely tied up into it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, whether it's looking in the mirror, whether it's looking at your resume, so much of what we do and see can affect the value that we put on ourselves. And, you know, you go through 50 auditions and none of them get a callback. Then you start to self-doubt.

Misha Osherovich:

You start to internalize it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

You start to go, "What's wrong with me?" Yeah. And I think that that question, "What's wrong with me?" is a question that each of us as actors, performers, as artists, that we have. And whenever you asked yourself that question, what was the answer that kept coming back to you?

Misha Osherovich:

I guess I don't necessarily know that I framed it as, "What's wrong with me?" It was something to do with, again, worth, self-worth. Am I worthy? Um, you know, unfortunately society, um, has a giant beauty complex and we value and praise and raise up those people that fall into an aesthetically, uh, commercially beautiful category. And that's not something that's ever going to change about humanity, which is why I kind of quite like the work that I'm doing, especially on the mental health side of things, because like you saw in the post, you can't— everybody should absolutely find a way to love themselves and their bodies exactly as they are. That being said, this industry is, but among other things, incredibly visual. So there's always going to be an element of comparison, an element of competition when it comes to pure aesthetics.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah.

Misha Osherovich:

And that's— it's a nightmare, but it's also something that I do believe people can approach healthily. But I will, I'll say this to hopefully slightly more answer your question. The last thing, in my opinion, an eating disorder is about is food. And for me, I found power, control, worth, and accomplishment in executing this insane voice in my head's commands when it came to my eating disorder. So it goes beyond looking in the mirror. It goes beyond a certain weight or goal or aesthetic. It's this thing that you can be really good at and that rewards you with this kind of very messed up warm hug of accomplishment. And it is different for everybody.

Misha Osherovich:

It really is. But I've found that in recovery, the hardest thing to do and the most rewarding thing to do especially say if an audition doesn't go well or if somebody gets a role that maybe I feel is, you know, aesthetically, who knows, more XYZ than me. I find that sitting in those difficult moments, pushing through any urges and thoughts I have to engage with my eating disorder and asking myself, what am I feeling and how can I move forward in life and find love for myself again? Without engaging with my eating disorder, those are the moments that I grow. Those are the moments that are good for me, good for my art, good for my mental health. So I don't have to numb myself or engage with this addictive behavior. Instead, I get to sit with myself quite uncomfortably, but learn about myself.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, I think that's what a lot of people run from. We run from ourselves as much as we can. And it sounds like a lot of what you had to come to terms with was self-love, self-care, and really taking a look inward at yourself as far as how can I find the worth, how can I find the love and the care for myself that really no one else can provide? Because I mean, especially in this industry, I'm not going to book every audition I go to. I'm not going to get that affirmation. You're a great artist. You can do this. You're a wonderful singer. I'm not going to get that.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I'm going to get silence. And silence is deafening when it comes to we just want to be cast.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, well, again, that goes to self-worth too. The reality of this industry, it's wildly competitive. But I mean, I walk into audition rooms sometimes feeling like, you know, you can't touch me. This is my work. And if you like it, amazing. And if you don't, also fine. That's kind of, you know, the money. And then there's the other side where I've definitely walked into audition rooms where I don't feel worthy enough to be there.

Misha Osherovich:

I'm doubting myself and everybody has their own version of that. But it's just, it's, I think it's just shooting yourself in the foot. I mean, who in any job interview, if you walk in and already going, well, I don't deserve this job, then who else is gonna think that?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, who else is gonna think you're worthy?

Misha Osherovich:

Exactly.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Don't—

Misha Osherovich:

exactly. But that's a journey that everybody has to come to differently, and it manifests itself in many different ways.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

You know, I didn't have an eating disorder, but I know I've done emotional eating. I know I've had a crappy day, so I have a whole pizza. Yeah, to myself. You know, I order Domino's and I just eat the whole thing. You know, but, and then there are those times where I'm feeling big and then I don't eat the whole day, you know, it's gone different ways. And then whether it's porn, whether it's anything, we all have these salves that we can latch on to. And sometimes it's our relationship, like our relationship means everything. My husband, my girlfriend, whoever it is, is everything.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And that's what's going to give me my value, validation, value. Yeah.

Misha Osherovich:

Making the film about eating disorders was, I mean, it was incredibly cathartic in some ways that I could absolutely predict, but what it's honestly forced me to do is talk about this thing that we're talking about right now. Yes, what does it mean to have an eating disorder and be in recovery? But what does it mean to address it through art? I made a film about it. I produced it. I garnered other people's money to make this visual 13-minute thing that addresses an eating disorder through artistic expression. And I do believe that the film accomplished everything I wanted it to, which is that it is unapologetic. It's messy. It's a gray area. It raises a lot of questions, which good.

Misha Osherovich:

I want people to ask questions about this particular disease. I want people to want to understand it more and hopefully see either themselves or somebody that they love in some aspect of the film, because it's incredibly human, these two individuals in the film that are going through an eating disorder. But I got to use my art to talk about it. I got to use a medium and a skill set that I've been training for years to, you know, hone in on. And then talk about an issue that means, means everything to me. It's, it's a giant part of my identity. It's a giant part of my growth. And distorted relationships to food in our body is something that a lot of people struggle with, especially in today's society, in or outside of this industry.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, absolutely.

Misha Osherovich:

So it's been incredibly gratifying to use my art to talk about something that means so much to me.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And how exactly has being an actor, being a performer, how has it helped in, in some way this, this eating disorder that you've been struggling with?

Misha Osherovich:

Um, here's the thing. I'm a homework human. I'm a, I'm a work ethic human. I like to know that I've put in the hours, the time, the mental energy, the physical energy to do my best possible work, the best job I can. And among other things, I've learned that engaging with my eating disorder is harmful to my mind, my body, and especially honestly, as I get older, I'm not resilient like I used to be. Like, if I don't treat myself well, my work is not very good, my art is not very good. And I also, I also don't get inspired because that evil little voice of the eating disorder is buzzing in my head. So art and acting and now producing and writing and all that, has been a way for me to hone in on a skill, to work tirelessly, sometimes to my detriment, towards these artistic goals, these professional goals.

Misha Osherovich:

And every step of the way, I'm made painfully aware that if I slide back into eating disorder land, into addiction land, I'm getting farther from my goals, not closer to them. So sometimes it's as directly as making a movie about eating disorders, but before auditions, I am sleeping, I am hydrating, I am going to the gym to activate and celebrate my muscles, not to, not to punish myself for having eaten something the day before. There's all kinds of self-care that's built into how I approach acting and how I approach artistic work that I, without sounding too cheesy, I believe that being an artist has saved my life in a very kind of concrete way.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

What sounds like it was a perspective shift. Eating disorder had this one element of control and it had this one goal, but you've come to realize that pursuing that goal eliminates this larger goal in your life, which is to be this artist, to be a performer, to continue to work and to be the best you can be.

Misha Osherovich:

Absolutely. And I also think that for those of us out there that rightfully so see an eating disorder as a pursuit of something aesthetic, which I— obviously there's many more layers to it than that, right?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

That's probably like the surface.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, generally it's the surface layer of what you're looking at, and it's easy to see, you know, when something's in front of us, obviously we engage with it in a more simple way as opposed to digging deeper. But let's call it what it is, you know, the pursuit of some kind of beauty, whatever that beauty means to you. My career is pursuit of beauty. And I think I wrote this in that post. I'm in the business of living a beautiful life and telling beautiful stories. Sometimes beautiful stories are messy, they're painful, they're hard, they're— or sometimes they're joyous and celebratory. They're all of the above, just like so many different kinds of humans are beautiful, just like so many different kinds of art is— are beautiful. The pursuit of that beauty has become far more important to me than anything remotely aesthetic or eating related.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, and that is where I believe my eating disorder now sits in relationship to my professional life and my artistic life.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It sounds like that while traumatic and really a terrible thing to go through, but you've come out on the other side of it, that the eating disorder And that knowledge and that history with it has propelled your own artistic expression and your own journey into the— into performing.

Misha Osherovich:

I'd say so, yes. Certainly a giant element, clearly, of why I make art is to, I guess, address that part of me.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Misha Osherovich:

But there's also— there's also an element of, um, I don't know, embracing life as a whole. An eating disorder and eating disorder thoughts are such a small section of life. And I've been able, I've been lucky enough to zoom out and see so much more, again, beautiful, but also more expansive parts of life, whether it's travel, friends, romance, acting career, whatever it is. It's outside of my own head. And I get to engage with, I have the privilege of engaging with that. Yeah, and so I'm, I'm very grateful for that. And that's, that's where I hope I continue to go and go in that direction. But I always say this, recovery for me is active.

Misha Osherovich:

I'm actively in recovery, right? I didn't have an eating disorder. I have one, just, and I therefore work every day— the title of my film— to maintain my recovery. And when I have slip up, some big, some small, like the day that I wrote that post. It's my job to build myself back up with my healthy coping skills and get back on the horse.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So it's interesting, as you were saying that, it, it made me think about the different voices that are, that are in our head, the different critics that we have. And it sounds like that you, you know, the eating disorder used to be a really big voice. And then you found other voices to not, not drown it out because, you know, it's, as you said, still a part of you, but they became bigger and more important voices that you listen to. And I think each of us have to find those, those healthier voices, those more affirming voices. And a lot of it's our own self, but then a lot of it is, is reaching out to family or friends or people that are, that care about us, that are in our lives. There's so many different ways and different places where we can find those larger voices to listen to.

Misha Osherovich:

Well, yeah, I mean, that's empathy and that's community. Isn't that what we do? Isn't— among other things, we are in the, you know, actors are professional empaths, professional feelers.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And so going forward, what is the main voice now that's in your head and what propels you forward?

Misha Osherovich:

I certainly think it has something to do with ambition now, but With the mental health conversations that I'm trying to have, with the queer-minded conversations that I'm trying to have, and build a successful career for myself in the arts, I've just started to look outside of myself. I'm wildly fascinated with stories that maybe they are about mental health, maybe they're not, but they have to do with other people and working with other people. And I think that's why producing has been something I'm so passionate about. As of late, I get this kick like no other when I bring talented artists that I personally champion, that I love and adore, and I know that they can do good work, and I get to bring them together and we make something exponentially better than any of us have created individually before because we as artists are making each other better. That's amazing. And that's honestly, even with, you know, the Instagram, like the, the photo shoots that I've done, My favorite part about them is seeing the end product. Those are all multi, multi-artist, multidisciplinary, multimedia things that I've worked on. I bring on costume designers that I went to school with.

Misha Osherovich:

I bring on makeup artists that I've seen their work from afar and just geeked out over. I work with photographers that have an amazing eye, and I can pair them up and bring them all into one project and watch them do amazing work. That's the big voice in my head right now, which is why I've launched right into producing the next film. Because I'm realizing, oh, this is a giant part of my identity as an artist, bringing other artists up.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, I will just be honest for myself. I think that's something that I struggle with, is that jealousy factor. When I— I mean, I can appreciate other people's art, especially when it's not something that I do. Sure. Whether it's like a costume designer, a dancer, there are certain artistic forms that I just don't know anything about. But things that I think I can do, and then I see someone else succeeding or someone else getting the opportunities and I'm not there and I haven't reached that level, the jealousy. It's hard for me to— and this is awful to say, but I have seen shows that friends of mine are in and I love the show and they're so talented, but it's hard for me to like 100% gusto love it because I'm like, I want to be doing that. Why can't I be up there? And I know that's my own voice in me that's going there.

Misha Osherovich:

Fair, but I think that's everybody. I mean, let's not forget that that is an unfortunate but very real part of our industry, the comparison. You're literally going on, you know, many, many, many job interviews a week up against people that are just trying— you're all just trying to be the best possible human for the job, the best possible representation of a character. Like, of course you're going to compare yourself. I have that too. I think every artist has an element of that. I think that in whatever way works for you, you do have to find a way to not just get over the jealousy— you don't get over anything— but work through it and find a way to be actually, even if it's just a little bit, passionate and proud of whoever you're going to that show, say, to support. Yeah, I struggle with it greatly.

Misha Osherovich:

I'm not gonna, you know, pretend that I don't. But I found that again, my work, my life, my anxiety, my everything gets better when I'm able to turn on the empathy just a bit more and celebrate another artist that I know, maybe personally or not, for doing something, accomplishing something great. And hey, if you see somebody in a show and you say, I can do that better, wonderful. Find your way to that stage. And I know that's such an arbitrary thing to say, but for me it was making my own movie. I needed to ask permission from absolutely nobody to do it, right? Or everybody has a different avenue that they can approach, use to find their way. But I, I do believe that if you're going to be in this industry, you have to learn a crap ton about yourself, more so than I think anybody realizes when they first get into this industry.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And there's a certain discipline, there's a certain work ethic that I think I know for myself, it took me a few years to kind of figure out Oh, that's how you do that to reach that next level. Oh, oh, I need to be rehearsing this, or I need to be ahead of the game. Like the mere concept of there's a show out there that I want to do, to learn that role and the music around it and be familiar with that role so that when the time comes and I'm ready to— are to be ready, like instead of waiting for, oh, now I got the audition, now I'm going to learn it.

Misha Osherovich:

There is nothing that compares to being ready. And I believe You know, honestly, and I'm going to quote her because it really hit me. Kate Lumpkin is a casting director here in the city, and she, you know, I just, I adore the way that she talks about the industry and the way that she, she makes so public, especially on the social media, her experience being behind the table. And it was a quote that she posted, and I think it was, be ready, be oh so ready, because when it comes, it's going to come quick and you don't want to miss it. And the simplicity of that is so true. We want this singular thing so badly, to be on that stage and to be the best possible performer we can be, right? So if that's what you want, be ready. And I'm gonna— it's another quote that I'm thinking of that I don't know who posted this, but, um, patience is not just about waiting, it's about what you're doing while you're waiting.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Misha Osherovich:

While you're waiting, get yourself ready in whatever way that excites you. So that when the opportunity comes, you can in fact jump on it. I don't know if there's a more distilled-down way to describe, I think, what we go through on the daily, which is just getting ready for that opportunity.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

After the break, we get into the final 5 questions and the audition story, so stay tuned for more with Misha Osherovich.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Hello, and thanks for coming back to join me for the Final Five. This is a bonus to the conversations I have where all season long I'm asking the same 5 questions to each guest. All right, Misha, so tell me, if you could have any other job outside of the arts, what would it be?

Misha Osherovich:

I think it's incredibly academic, but I think it would be historian or something to do with history. And obviously that lends itself a little bit to the arts. But I mean, I spend my time listening to history podcasts. I just finished like a, I think, 13-hour craziness podcast situation about ancient Rome. Like, it's fascinating.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And Rome is, as you said, it's utterly fascinating. Like the history, the Roman mythology, the Roman Empire, all of that. Yeah, I was just in Rome last year, and it was a joy to just be in the city.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, it's, it's incredible. And, you know, I think absolutely something to do with history, or, or honestly, and I've genuinely considered this, something to do with mental health. I, outside of using my artistic platform for it, I've seriously considered at times finding out if there's more technical and logistical ways that I can get involved with mental health advocacy and working with actual patient-to-patient. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah. So that, either of those.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And who knows? I'm sure through the arts you can accomplish both of those.

Misha Osherovich:

I certainly hope so. Yes.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Number 2, what is a bucket list role or show that you still have yet to do? Oh, Equus.

Misha Osherovich:

God. Oh my God. I want to play—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

You know, having seen you now in person and watching your Instagram and on social media, I can see that that would be a role that you would just tear up.

Misha Osherovich:

I auditioned for it a few times in my life, but I got very far in callbacks once, and it was just like, It's something that I know I could sink my teeth into and just like murder. I'm putting it out there. I'm gonna do it. It's gonna happen.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I mean, I mean, talk about a cathartic role too.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, I mean, you're released.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, you're out there. No, yeah, no holding back. Mm-hmm. All right, number 3. Who do you look up to, a mentor or someone who inspires you?

Misha Osherovich:

I think everybody, and mine vacillates, has, you know, they're more famous or more well-known role models, but I'm actually gonna call them out. My very dear friend who I'm moving to LA with, who you know, Michael Lors, mm-hmm. I look up to him a lot, and I think that one of the reasons that we're deciding to live together and start our venture in LA together is because we balance each other out. He's very good at things that I'm not. He's very good at self-care in a very even-keel, consistent way. He's very good at empathy beyond all else, just a crazy amount of perception and human awareness about other people's emotions. People turn to him for a reason. I aspire to be as kind and as generous of a human being as he is.

Misha Osherovich:

And those lessons have become far more important to me in life recently than, you know, say like an acting tip or a rehearsal, right? Something or other. So Michael, yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, because first and foremost, we are human before we are actor, before we are anything else.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah. And I think he's really good at being that thing, human.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

All right, number 4, name a lesson or trait that took you a while to learn or one that you're still learning to this day.

Misha Osherovich:

It took me a while to learn that the most likable thing about any individual person is how much they like themselves. And I know that kind of speaks back to a lot of the conversation we had before, but I'm still learning this. And every time without fail, I fall into trying to be something for somebody else, look a certain way, act a certain way, speak a certain way. God knows, you know, I go up for those 14, 15-year-olds and I was talking about what I do with my voice. And every time—

Patrick Oliver Jones:

so enjoy that baby face while you have it.

Misha Osherovich:

Oh, you know I will. It's owning, loving, and being very celebratory about myself because that is what I'm wildly attracted to in other people. So I'm learning slowly how to do that for myself.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And it can also be what turns me off whenever people are self-deprecating. They tear themselves down. It's like, oh, I'm stupid.

Misha Osherovich:

I messed up.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I did. I mean, When people like talk themselves down, it's one of my most annoying things. And the thing is, it's also because I see that in myself.

Misha Osherovich:

Well, we hate in others what we hate in ourselves, right?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Absolutely. I mean, I have literally said the words, "Oh, Patrick, you're so stupid." I mean, I've said that out loud to myself. So I deal with that myself. But it's also what I hate in other people whenever I see that because, I mean, no matter where we are, no matter what we've done, there's very few things in our life that are that monumental that are like life-ending. It's like, nope, okay, I've done it. I can't, I can't come back from this. My life's over. Sure.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Like, no, we all do stupid things, but that doesn't mean that we are stupid or have— or incomplete in some way.

Misha Osherovich:

Mm-hmm.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

We just pick up. All right, let's do it. Let's do it again.

Misha Osherovich:

And hopefully you have enough of a well— and I talk about the well a lot in my life— but a well of self-love and of faith in yourself that you can draw from when you hit some of those lower points. So again, it's something that I'm still learning and fostering, but I think that's the lesson that I'm working with right now.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, I love that. All right, and finally, number 5: What is the best advice that you've received?

Misha Osherovich:

I want— I feel like this needs to be terribly intelligent.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

This is the final question, so it needs to be the most profound.

Misha Osherovich:

You know, It's a very simple thing that a lot of actors come up against, but I think we all forget it from time to time. One of my castmates from the TV show that I just did is just a far more experienced auditioner, I'd say, than me. And he's always, you know, testing for this, going in for that. And I recently, like I was saying, I just tested for a role on a TV show, and I was freaking out a little bit beforehand, like, do I do anything more? Do I work on my audition more? How do I dress? And my friend says to me, you can't worry about that. You have to go in there and show them exactly who you are because now they know you can act. It's about do they want to work with you? Do they jive with your energy? And none of that, kind of going back to what we were saying before about loving yourself, none of that will shine through if you don't own yourself. So it was a big moment of just like clarity, like right then. My job, oddly enough, is to be myself and just myself.

Misha Osherovich:

I can't be something else. I only have so many Mishas inside of me. I can't be something that's not Misha. That's not useful to anybody. So it was that very classic be yourself lesson in a moment when I really needed it, when I was stressing out about trying to be something else, and my friend was like, no, calm down, take a breath. You are some version of what they're looking for. Now just go show them that. All right.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So now whatever memorable audition story that you have.

Misha Osherovich:

So the first thing that popped to my head was a good story, kind of relating to that mental health slump that I had recently. So I was getting quite down on myself, you know, my, my eating disorder thoughts and other self-deprecation was kind of bleeding into my brain. And then I got this big old Broadway audition, and I did it. And then I got the callback.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

For what show?

Misha Osherovich:

The Inheritance.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Oh, lovely.

Misha Osherovich:

Lovely. And I didn't actually think that an audition or even a callback would be one of those things that gets burned into my memory as a formative moment as an artist. I thought that only happened in performances or on set. No, I, I worked on this audition, and you know, it's a beautiful play, and it's so text-heavy, it's so specific. It's, it's like Angels in America in a lot of ways, right? It takes skill and attention to detail to execute these long, beautiful monologues and, you know, very expansive scenes well. So my roommate— little plug— Jacob Raquel, you're one of the best acting coaches out there known to man— was working with me on this, and he knew that I was in a bad place. So my creativity wasn't sparking, my— it didn't click. And he worked with me and worked with me and worked with me until finally the rest of the world fell away.

Misha Osherovich:

My hate for myself, my distractions, my financial stress, it all fell away. And I got— and I just kind of got into the work. And I, I'm loosely spiritual. It's like my third eye opened. Like I could feel my forehead just blast open. And all of a sudden, it, it all made sense and I was having ideas and I was, I was embodying the character in such a way that I walked into this Broadway callback more confident than walking onto a TV show set that I worked on.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Hmm.

Misha Osherovich:

I showed them work that I was so proud of. I just couldn't wait to do it all for them. There was almost no fear and I've never experienced that before.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

That is a truly magical place to be.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah. And I'm, you know, you can see it. I'm getting goosebumps literally talking about it. That's something that I'm never going to forget. And that's something that I'm going to hopefully bring some version of that to every audition and performance that I go forth into. So I'm very thankful for that experience. And that is, you know, what popped into my head, you know, memorable audition. It's certainly had some bad ones, but that was one that I'm probably going to celebrate for a very long time.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Absolutely. Yeah, it's really wonderful. As I've had had a handful of those. Yeah, they're very rare, but whenever the music, the character, the scenes, just everything just speaks to you in a certain way and it's just like, I know this person, I can be this person. Like, there was one where I couldn't sing the songs enough. I just wanted to keep learning, keep getting it just right. Like, I couldn't go over everything enough. I just wanted to— and there's that excitement about When you finally get in the room, it's like, let me show you.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I'm ready.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Here I am.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah, it's like flying.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, very much so.

Misha Osherovich:

Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, this has been a wonderful, wonderful conversation.

Misha Osherovich:

So fun. I can't believe it's ending. Oh, my goodness.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, that about does it for this episode. I'm your host, Patrick Oliver Jones, in charge of writing, editing, and producing this podcast. Background music is from Jon Bartman, and the theme song? That was created by me. Be sure to join me next time as we talk more about why I'll never make it.