Patrick Oliver Jones:

Hey there and welcome back. Last week, Aubie Merrily's and I had a fantastic conversation about Boop. As well as something that all of us actors have experienced unemployment. But. But there's still so much more for us to explore. And so now Aubie is back to answer the final five questions. And. And this is going to give us a chance to go beyond the spotlight and hear about and mindsets that have truly defined his journey.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So, Aubie, let us get started with question number one. What do you remember most about your first professional show?

Aubie Merrillides:

I remember the feeling of it. I remember the smell of the theater. It was at People's Lighting Theater outside Philadelphia. It was a production of the Christmas Carol that Tazewell Thompson directed. Forest McClendon was in it. I don't know if any of you know him. He's a great actor. But I remember the discipline of that, the fun of that.

Aubie Merrillides:

I remember the smell of the backstage. And I remember. I mean, I was, what I say, 11. I don't know. I remember. It was. What I remember is that it was a chance to do something on my own. I was like my own little adult with.

Aubie Merrillides:

And other adults were willing to hang out with me and other adults were making me feel special and I just felt like I was on top of the world.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I love that. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, working with children can be tough because, you know, especially if they're a little more rambunctious. But it's often so rewarding because. Yeah, like, I like when I did Fun Home having, I was Bruce. And so the children in that. Yeah. I tried to get to know each one of them individually specially, and so tried to really make them feel a part of that show.

Aubie Merrillides:

I'm so grateful, like, on their behalf. I'm so grateful that you did that, because now that I'm older, it is hard sometimes. Like, you're in your own world, you're doing your own thing, like you're tired. It's like it can be hard to, you know, make time to sort of be a mentor. I understand. But I'm so grateful to the people who were that for me from a very young age. And it's like that intergenerational aspect of the theater is one of the things that drew me to it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, speaking of children, question number two. If you could give your advice to yourself, your younger self, what would that be?

Aubie Merrillides:

You're going to feel better tomorrow. Everything is temporary. Keep digging into other things that you love, which creates balance in your life. Develop some other skills in college. So you can support yourself so you. So you can support yourself better. Maybe take a business course, whatever, and. And just.

Aubie Merrillides:

Yeah, I don't know that that's it. I would. I would want my younger self to sort of be more confident, but I also, like, wouldn't want to impose that. Like, I had to go through the journey I had to go through, so I'd be like, you know, maybe diversify a little bit more.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems like that all those things that you've mentioned. Yeah, it was about diversifying yourself, your experiences, your knowledge. And I think with that, once you start to know and. And can do other things than just this one thing, that is all important, that you have a wide range of experiences. I think that's where confidence can come. It's like, oh, I've done this, so then I can probably do that and I can do this over here and that. So, yeah, I think self confidence comes from that diversification of experience and stuff.

Aubie Merrillides:

Yeah. And happiness.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Just kindness and happiness. Yeah. So simple. Yeah.

Aubie Merrillides:

So simple. But so hard for people sometimes.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I know it really is. Well. Well, number three, what does success, or making it mean to you?

Aubie Merrillides:

You asked me this ahead of time and I was like, oh, I don't have an answer for that. Like, I'm always wrestling with this question. I think about it from time to time. I don't know. I try to stay present. I think that success feels like. It could mean, like, respect from your peers, from people who respect you, people knowing who you are, people leaning into you when you speak because they want to hear what you have to say. Because a lot of times in this industry, people don't do that unless you're a so and so.

Aubie Merrillides:

And that can be. That can be hard if. If you're a kind of person who sort of receives that and sort of like recedes in response to it, which I sometimes can. And being able to do the things that I want, being able to pay for the life that I want, that. Those are it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yep. It's a simple thing sometimes. I totally get it. Yeah.

Aubie Merrillides:

Take a vacation once a year, buy Christmas gifts.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Don't you love that?

Aubie Merrillides:

Oh, yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, number four, what changes would you like to see in the industry going forward?

Aubie Merrillides:

I think that a lot of changes have happened even in recent years. I mean, the industry is so much more diverse. There's such a more diverse palette of stories being told. I think that's fantastic. I want it to keep going that direction. I want. And I want that to start, I guess, like, if I had to Pick it would be like, I just want that to continue to start sort of at the ground level. And that means like, you know, I don't have any data on this, but like the, like continuing to engender that sort of diversity of approach that an invitation at a young age, like, and continuing to cultivate like whole little ecosystems that like grow up into forests like it wants, you know, once they arrive and, and then.

Aubie Merrillides:

So I guess that's just like a. Let's just keep going in that direction and then. But the industry is not sustainable anymore in my opinion.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Financially, you mean?

Aubie Merrillides:

Yeah, I think that. I think streaming has really hurt us and I don't think we got enough out of the, out of the last contract, out of that last strike. And I'm not it. I'm sort of like in the ads. I don't expect anybody to act outside of their best interest. So it's like my thing is sort of like we need government intervention. We need more structure for how to revitalize these industries, which is, you know, stuff that's happened in the past in this country. But yeah, like, I just don't think it pays enough.

Aubie Merrillides:

There's. I don't think the residual program for streaming makes. It's not enough to sustain the long periods of unemployment and people will see like, well, they made this much in one day. Like that's a lot. I mean that much doesn't even go very far anymore. And you might, you've got to remember like that might be the only booking you get in a year because the industry is so oversaturated. So I think if there's a way to make it more sustainable and obviously that problem touches on like a lot of problems we're facing in the country.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

So like, yeah, there's no one solution but, but yeah, the broader, the broader topic of how to make it more sustainable and, and viable as a, as a profession.

Aubie Merrillides:

Absolutely. Yeah. Like the, the rise of like corporatism or people say late stage capital capitalism. But just like the way in which corporations have continued to like strengthen their stranglehold, I think that's, that's made all this quite hard.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Going back to even the early days of the film industry. Well, and theater, Broadway in general. But yeah, the studios had the stranglehold and artists had to pull away and create United Artists and other places and organizations to kind of find their own strength. So yeah, I think it's going to continue to be a tug of war.

Aubie Merrillides:

I want to. Can I say one more other thing?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Go for it.

Aubie Merrillides:

It's Unrelated. I just. Also. Another change. It's just like, we are getting better and better at having hard conversations in the theater. And it's just, like, to continue to move in that direction, to continue to tolerate our own discomfort around and hold space for people who see things differently than we do, and continuing to sort of meet in the really fruitful, fertile ground that exists, like, between us. And that, I think, is sort of the only way to survive. And it's.

Aubie Merrillides:

I feel that way about, you know, the entire country. But if our little workplaces are microcosms of that big problem, it's just like, how do we continue to be, to quote a cliche, the change we want to see in the world?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Right, right, exactly. Well, lastly, number five. Describe a personal lesson that's taken you a while to learn or one that you're still working on to this day.

Aubie Merrillides:

I. Well, I think first, like I mentioned, this work, life, balance, the schedule can be quite isolating. It's exhausting. There's a comedown process. A lot of times at the end of the night, you're working on a different, like, time schedule than a lot of people. So it's isolating. I feel a little isolated right now. You know, if you're in a show that requires some darkness, maybe you're sustaining, like, a low level of difficult emotion so you can access it every night.

Aubie Merrillides:

Like, it's. It's just balance is always something that I'm working on. And I think the thing your question was like, about a personal lesson. Yeah, I don't know why I'm answering more like, what I'm working on.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, I mean, but I think that's part of it, too. Whatever you're still working on.

Aubie Merrillides:

Yeah, yeah, I think. I think that. Well, in grad school, Ron Van Loo, the teacher I mentioned, he. At the end of our first year, he brought me into his office. He was the chair of the program at that time. And he was like, it's good. Everything's good. The work is good.

Aubie Merrillides:

Everything's fine. You could ask fewer questions.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And this was to you personally?

Aubie Merrillides:

To me personally.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Okay, okay.

Aubie Merrillides:

And I was like, what? What do you mean? Like, I'm in an academic institution. This is grad school. What do you mean, ask fewer questions? And I sort of was, like, missed about it, actually, at the time, I was like, okay. I was so taken aback. And I left. And then I asked for another meeting and came in and was like, what are you talking about, Ron? That's ridiculous. And he was like, you know, I'm not Saying, don't ask questions. But I just.

Aubie Merrillides:

I hear what you're saying, but I just think you ask questions that you already know the answer to. And I think that reflects a fundamental insecurity, and you would be stronger if you didn't do that. And I just. I continue to think about that. And so I guess my takeaway is, like, to be direct. And I know that doesn't work for everybody. And he also told me in another meeting, he was like, you need to know a lot of different ways of working, because everybody's. You know, the way I work with Jerry Mitchell is different than the way I work with Bart Shear is different from the way, you know, I work.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

With.

Aubie Merrillides:

My friend Emily, who's an amazing playwright who lives a couple blocks away from me. Like. But, you know, now I look around and I really notice when actors are trying to direct the play through questions they're asking. It just feels so obvious to me now. And I was like, wow. I don't know that that was what I was doing, but it's like him even planting the seed that, like, questions that. About people asking questions that they already know the answer to, really, sort of. I'm so grateful to have had that note.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah. I know that I have gone to directors and asked certain questions or posed a query a certain way to, you know, that I'm. I'm sure it was obvious to them that I was trying to mold a scene in a certain way that may have been different from what they wanted or.

Aubie Merrillides:

And I don't think, you know, I don't think that's always bad, of course. And I've done it, too. And I'm like. Like, I'll be like, what do we think the story is of this scene? Like, how do you see it? Like, how do you. You know, Like, I just guess I've got maybe tried to get better at being like, you know, framing it as, like, how do you see this? Rather than. Because I don't know the answer to that one. Rather than. Don't you think it would be.

Aubie Merrillides:

Don't you think that we're in conflict here? Like, you know, which is a little more like. Here's how. Let me tell you. I see it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It's like, you see that this is how it should be, right?

Aubie Merrillides:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like, you see that that actor, like, is, like, with all those pauses, this scene isn't going to work. Like. Or, like, so. Or like, my. Like, the bad actor version of that is like, so. So we think so. We like the pace of this scene, like.

Aubie Merrillides:

Or whatever. Like.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Aubie Merrillides:

You know, I don't. I. I don't know. I guess I just. In that I also learned. I started to think about how much I could do on my own and sort of the degree to which there's a ton of work I can do. Yeah. On my own and sort of bring to the room rather than sort of always waiting for permission or to be told or for some sort of like, you know, it's just.

Aubie Merrillides:

I'm like, oh, I can actually just talk less as well. So as.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

As we've talked for two hours now.

Aubie Merrillides:

Yeah, well, that's the thing. I had to learn it because I don't. You know, this is my tendency. Right.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

No, no, I totally. Well, believe me, it has been a joy to talk to you and I really appreciate you coming on the podcast.

Aubie Merrillides:

Yeah, it's been great talking to you, Patrick. Thanks for having me.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Thank you so much for joining why I'll Never Make It. And don't forget, you can become a subscriber and get bonus conversations by going to why I'll never make it.com and click subscribe. Subscribe, or just look for the link in the show notes. Be sure to join me next time as we talk more about why I'll Never Make It.