This season, we're diving deep into the world of theater with guests from Broadway, London's West End, and regional theaters near and far. From seasoned veterans to fresh faces on the scene, each episode is packed with candid conversations and inspiring stories about life in the performing arts industry.

Join me as I sit down with actors, directors, writers, and more to explore the highs and lows of chasing dreams in the spotlight. Subscribers will continue to get audition room horror stories as well as early access to every episode.

So whether you're a theater aficionado or just curious about the inner workings of showbiz, join me on the Why I’ll Never Make It podcast for a season filled with triumphs and tragedies under the stage lights. Be sure to follow now on your favorite podcast platform, to make sure you get every episode!

That’s because I'm excited to bring back bonus episodes featuring the Final Five questions I ask each guest, where they share candid thoughts on life, love, and everything in between. These bite-sized episodes will follow each main interview, offering you even more insight into the personal lives and careers of our esteemed guests.

And just to give you a taste of what to expect this season, here are the final five questions I asked Lisa Howard last season (which was only available to subscribers). In these series of questions she opens up about the unpredictability of this industry and how embracing these challenges and uncertainties is so important as well as what “making it” means to her.

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Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, let's get into these final five questions. So the first one is what was your very first experience? In theater or on stage?

Lisa Howard:

Very first was getting a solo in the Christmas pageant at my elementary school. Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

What did you sing? Did you sing a Christmas carol?

Lisa Howard:

The song called Christmas is a Feeling. I could sing it for you now if you'd like.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Christmas is a feeling. What feeling is it?

Lisa Howard:

Christmas is a feeling. Filling the air with love and joy and people everywhere.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I love it.

Lisa Howard:

And how old were you when the fifth grade.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Love it.

Lisa Howard:

Yeah, it was my very first solo ever. Of course I remember it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Wow, that's wonderful.

Lisa Howard:

I did, like, little solo things, but real, like performing where you're, like, acting, doing a dance and things like that. I did show choir. I auditioned in junior high. It was like, end of my 7th grade year. Going into 8th grade, I auditioned for the Countywide Etc. All American Youth Show Choir. And that's where I really got my performance. Bug.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Love it. Oh, my gosh, that's great. That's great. Well, number two, how has the industry changed most since you first started?

Lisa Howard:

Well, we kind of talked about that a little bit, I think. Yeah.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

That's certainly one way it's changed as far as just accepting people for who they are.

Lisa Howard:

Yeah. Also, you don't have to I don't even remember what night it was. But everything's digital now. You don't have to have really the hard headshot, the hard copy headshots, although you still should have some. Everything's digital. You don't have to go and get the Backstage from the newsstand on late Thursday night or early Friday morning. Right. When you had to go get the Backstage magazine to find out the auditions. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, big things like that. I think it's always been commercial since I've been in it, too. So we're using celebrity names, try to get the butts in the seats. But I mean, it's always been like that. I think having a bit more diversity in the casting and the fact that it's moving along with the modern age and everything's digitized and social media, actually, because trying to promote yourself before was it was very difficult.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

It wasn't expected.

Lisa Howard:

It wasn't expected. And now you've got to have certain number of followers. And if it's between you and somebody else and somebody else, the other person has a you might be equally as talented. Somebody else has a huge social media following. A lot of times you're going to get the job, which makes me want to throw up a little bit.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Like, wow, but throw up on them.

Lisa Howard:

And then show me how to get more followers.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Right, right. Tell me how to do it.

Lisa Howard:

I'm going to barf on you, but then show me how to do that. So that's really about promoting yourself because now anybody can get their music out. You can produce your own albums. There's just so many more ways that you can promote yourself, promote your business, promote you. Because I think that's why I struggle with it a little bit, because I didn't grow up with a cell phone in my hand. Taking selfies and promote that was like kind of like, oh, look at showing off, kind of thing. It's a complete different mental shift. Like, I really have to make myself post.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I still kind of laugh at those people, though. I'm like whenever they're just, like, walking by and all of a sudden they go with that face. They're walking along, normal face. And then all of a sudden the selfie face comes and it's like, whoa. And the pucker. Oh, my gosh, the lips. I don't get it. I still kind of laugh at it.

Lisa Howard:

I know.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Everyone does it now.

Lisa Howard:

Literally. It's a complete 180. You were made fun of or looked down upon for being self centered and.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Oh, look at that selfie stick and all that.

Lisa Howard:

Yeah, it was a whole thing. And now it's expected. You're making reels and all that. It's the whole thing makes us sound old.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I know. We're the commudgeons now. I know. So with that in mind, number three, what does success making it? What does that mean to you now?

Lisa Howard:

I often joke and say, I'm still here. I'm still doing it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Just surviving.

Lisa Howard:

Yeah, just surviving, making a living. And sometimes you've got to have that side job to pay the bills still. But being okay with that and finding other ways of being creative, maybe you're not in a theater show, but if you're still doing something creative and making money from it, that is aok. That is success. That is doing it. Because I often find doing theater jobs, it's who's writing what. What's the timing like, you just never know when it's coming, but you've got to fulfill that creative bug. There are many different ways that I have supported myself over the years, and you just have to be okay with that if you're still wanting to do this. And I think that is being success. Sometimes I joke and I'm like, am I still here? What am I doing? Because it is such an up and down industry. But I'm definitely not ready to win the towel. So you just make it work. Like, you and I, we're waiting to hear, is 42nd street doing anything? We'll see. We'll just keep going, right? Everybody asks me, So what's next? I'm like, you don't know?

Patrick Oliver Jones:

I know.

Lisa Howard:

That blows their mind. They're like, how do you do that? I don't know. You just get used to it.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

And you kind of for me, I act like it's not going to happen in some way. It's like, whether it happens or not, I have to just assume it's not and move on. And then if it does, bonus.

Lisa Howard:

Right? A lot of times I'll do master classes with theater students or workshops or teach voice lessons, and I took a couple of months off with November and December after our show closed. And now I'm like, I've really got to do something that wicked. Money is going way really fast. I was like, I got to make some money. So let me call in my people. Whose students can I work with who's doing a show at 54 Below? I'll sing some songs. Like, you do those things to fill in the gaps in between the big projects that really pay the bills well.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Number four, what is a personal lesson that's taken you a while to learn or one that you're still working on to this day?

Lisa Howard:

I'm like, how much time you got? Just kidding.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

The therapy session starts now, right?

Lisa Howard:

No, it really is about taking care of yourself and learning when to say no, because that's hard. Sometimes in this business, you feel like you have to say yes to everything because that opportunity might come along or whatever. But sometimes, even for auditions, if I have too much going on or whatever, I've definitely learned the power of saying, I really can't do that right now. I can't take it. And sometimes I've turned down audition offers and job offers because it's going to take me out of town this spring. And I literally was just on the road for almost a year, and I've got kids. I can't even though I want that job, I really would love that job, and it would be fun and I would make some money, but I just can't right now. You know what? There's going to be other shows. You just have to keep having that faith in it that something else will come along. Like, I was joking earlier, I was like, you never know when another show is going to happen, but you'd have to make the choices for your mental health, for your family, for all of that. And sometimes that means saying, I'm sorry, I can't do that. And so I think that's the biggest lesson learned and not feeling bad about, because you always feel like, oh, I should take that. They got me on that audition, or, oh, they're offering me that. Of course you have to take it. Sometimes it's not worth it on one level or another. So that's a big lesson to learn.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Because this certainly happens often as well, where you have multiple offers, maybe one, two, three at a time. How do you differentiate or what goes into making your decision one way or the other?

Lisa Howard:

Well, it doesn't happen very often, but I have multiple losses.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

No, it doesn't happen very often, but it's happened a handful of times in my career.

Lisa Howard:

Yeah, sometimes one project might be more artistically fulfilling, but the paycheck is not there. And oftentimes, especially having a family to support, it's just me. It'd be a different story. But sometimes, oh, I'm going to be making how much? Okay, well, I'll have to take that job where it's the Big machine show and you're just a cog in the wheel and you get put in and you're great, and as compared to, oh, my gosh, here's a new show and it's the lead role. Here's a supporting role in a well established show, but this one's going to pay you more. I'm sorry. Right now I got a family, I got to do this one. So I've definitely had to make that choice.

Patrick Oliver Jones:

Well, number five, what is the most useful advice that you've received and how have you applied that to your own life or career?

Lisa Howard:

Keep putting yourself out there. If something's not coming, if your agents there's nothing coming down the pike or you haven't had an audition in a while or whatever it is, then make the opportunity. Like, say you have this podcast that's making the opportunity. Nothing's coming along. Write a solo show, do an album. Why do you think I have the Christmas album? Because there was nothing coming. It's the pandemic. Nothing's happening. Okay. I need some way to get myself out there, to be creative, to use my skills. I'll do a christmas album. Keep putting yourself out there doing the auditions, but also, if those aren't coming, forge a path of something. Make it. Do it yourself. Give your own self the opportunity.

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Season 8 starts next week Feb 5 with the wonderful playwright and director Steve Cuden with a fascinating tale of how brought Jekyll & Hyde to life with Frank Wildhorn, yet it was another lyricist who actually took it to Broadway. It’s a fascinating look behind the curtain of one the most iconic shows of the last 30 years. So join me and Steve next time as we talk more about Why I’ll Never Make It.