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[0:01] Sean Chandler: Dazzling dressers, super swings, and peerless performers. Hi, everyone. I'm your host, Sean Chandler, and you're listening to Your Program Is Your Ticket, a discussion of smaller theater works and the people and organizations that make it happen. My guest today is the multi-talented Billy Hipkins. Billy is an esteemed solo playwright and performer and wardrobe professional. He is also the creator, producer, host of his very own YouTube channel, Billy Hipkins, The All-Saran. Billy has vast and extensive experience working within the theater community in a multitude of shows and functions, most recently as a dresser in the Tony Award-winning revival of Ragtime the Musical. I had the absolute pleasure of meeting him last year, and he is delightful. I'm super excited for you all to hear from him, so let's bring on the interview. Hi, Billy, and welcome to Your Program Is Your Ticket.

[0:55] Billy Hipkins: Hello, it's good to be here.

[0:57] Sean Chandler: I'm so glad you're here. I remember, I think we're coming up on our like one-year meeting anniversary.

[1:00] Billy Hipkins: Oh, I guess we are.

[1:02] Sean Chandler: We are, because we met on Halloween last year when we were with our good friend Mark Finley and with my husband, and we went to go see Batboy at City Center, which I loved. But beforehand, we went out to dinner at a Churceria.

[1:17] Billy Hipkins: Good God, yes, we did.

[1:18] Sean Chandler: Oh my gosh, I love those places. They're so delicious, and I love the show too, but I just thought to myself, oh my God, I have got to get this guy on my show because he is hilarious.

[1:38] Billy Hipkins: I'm flattered. I'll try to keep up.

[1:40] Sean Chandler: I'm sure you will have no problem keeping up. I think it's going to be the reverse, and I'm going to have to keep up with you.

[1:47] Billy Hipkins: Oh, well, here we go.

[1:49] Sean Chandler: All right, let's have you introduce yourself to our listeners. Tell us about yourself, your life, your work, your passions, all of it.

[1:56] Billy Hipkins: Sure. My name is Billy Hipkins. I am a solo playwright who is currently working on my fourth piece we're going to do next month, we'll hear more about that, of a new solo story that I'm writing, and I perform my own work. I make my living, though, in wardrobe on Broadway as a dresser, and just closed Ragtime up at Lincoln Center. That was my 35th Broadway wardrobe credit.

[2:27] Sean Chandler: Oh my gosh.

[2:28] Billy Hipkins: Now, when I say 35, that is because if you work on flop shows, you can rack up a lot of them quickly, and boy, the list goes on. We'll get to that, but I've been a full-time dresser, a swing, which is filling in for other dressers, day worker, going in during the day to do maintenance, vacation cover, et cetera, et cetera. All of that said, I have been on payroll of 35 Broadway wardrobe departments. That's where I make my living. I had an acting career for many, many years. I got sick of auditioning and always did costumes. I got a job offer on Meeting the Beast on Broadway when it moved to the Lunt and went, this is where I always wanted to be anyway. I just don't have to get up and vocalize in the morning. How's that? It has led to this astounding Broadway life for me and led me back to my own writing and my own work.

[3:19] Sean Chandler: Oh, very cool.

[3:20] Billy Hipkins: Yes.

[3:20] Sean Chandler: So you started out in front of the audience.

[3:27] Billy Hipkins: Yes.

[3:27] Sean Chandler: Okay. Then after a while, because getting yourself in front of the audience, you're right, it's audition after audition after audition. I mean, there are some times when people have up to six to eight auditions a day and it can be disheartening because it can be a lot of rejection.

[3:44] Billy Hipkins: Well, yeah, because when you audition, most often all you're going to hear when you are done with whatever you brought in and presented is, thank you. That means we love you. We want to see you again tomorrow. We don't like you. We never want to see you again. It means a million things, but all you're going to really hear is thank you. Then you walk out the door. Let it go. It's just very hard day by day by day by day to do that. Do I have the right material? Is it me? What am I doing wrong? What can I do better? Looking back in hindsight, I didn't have tools like what's meant for me is not going to pass me by. What is it meant for me? I cannot make that happen. So it was a lot of desperation, which I do believe I carried into the room with me quite often.

I think a lot of actors do. I'm not a standard type. I'm not a lead man. I was the comedic ingenue, the sidekick, but I was a little too tall to be a Barnaby Tucker in Hello, Dolly! and a little too short to be a, you know, so I was kind of in the middle of who the hell is he and what we do with him. But that said, I did have some very interesting credits. I ended up touring America as a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, which was a crazy thing.

[5:05] Sean Chandler: I loved that credit, which is why I asked you. Please expand upon that.

[5:09] Billy Hipkins: Well, this is what's crazy. A friend from high school's husband produced this, Bobby Chong, produced this major show. It was a huge stadium show called the Coming Out of Their Shells Tour. They must have started in 1990, I think. And it was a hip-hop, rock and roll concert show with the turtles playing instruments, and then the evil Shredder shows up, and there's all these ninjas, and there's their master splinter, and there's April O'Neil, cop reporter, played originally on the national tour by Sherry Renee Scott, by the way. Oh my gosh. So while that tour is out, my friend, his wife, Bobby calls me to say, hey, listen, they're sending the costumes back to New York, and I'm going to show you costumes, to do the Macy's Parade.

We're just going to ride down the parade route and then dance around in front of Macy's. No choreography. You want to do it? Hell yeah, I want to do it. I do the Macy's Parade. Wow, that was fun. Flash phone a few months. Hey, we're going down to Florida to do the Blockbuster Video Bowl halftime show at the football. You want to? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nickelodeon thing in Seattle. Sure. I kept going out and doing these little pickup gigs.

[6:18] Billy Hipkins: Promo events. Right, doing nothing in a 34-pound turtle costume. Oh my gosh. And then, flash forward to, they're sending out a second tour, a scaled-down tour to do all the six flag parks for the summer, like a three-month gig. Okay. You want to go? Sure, yeah. I wasn't working, so yeah, I'll go. I didn't audition. I get out to LA for rehearsals. It is a full-on hip-hop show. I don't dance well to begin. I frustrated a lot of choreographers, but I was never a dancer. And it's hip-hop. I cannot do the Running Man. I cannot do the Cabbage Patch. I cannot do the Roger Rabbit. I cannot. Oh my god, the torch. Not even the Rain Bird? I was bad. I was bad, and I'm in this thing. And in rehearsal, we were told flat out, wear all of your clothes to rehearsal, because you've got to get used to sweating, sweating a lot.

I was going to say, damn. Get used to it. And any move, the costume eats up motion. Right. So a move that had to, like, arm extend it over your head can't just be arm extended. It has to be, like, all the way. I mean, everything has to be so much bigger for the motion of this ginormous costume. Interestingly enough, the original turtles had a shell on their backs, and that costume was 50 pounds. And they couldn't stand up straight. So they ditched the shells and put denim vests on them. So literally, the coming out of their shell store was like, they're turtles, but they don't have shells. It was weird.

[7:51] Sean Chandler: And initially, they...

[7:56] Billy Hipkins: Wait, wait, wait, wait. You were turtles, but they removed the shell?

[7:56] Billy Hipkins: Yeah. And not even, like, a cloth representation?

[8:01] Billy Hipkins: No, they had a denim vest on. As do your shell. That was it. Oh my god. Okay. All right.

[8:06] Billy Hipkins: Yeah, that was it. Because they couldn't stand up straight and dance. And also, initially, they had those poor guys doing the dialogue live. And apparently, from what I understand, it just all sounded like... They just couldn't do it. So they had to pre-record all the turtle stuff.

[8:22] Sean Chandler: Oh, shit.

[8:23] Billy Hipkins: So now you have somebody offstage with remote control running your eye motions and your mouth motions. So we... By the time we're doing it, they worked all that out, but we are on a click track, and we're just going to move around while they do our dialogue. And our mouths have black pantyhose in them with a hole cut for a straw for a water bottle in it. And the rules are, during a dance break, you open that mouth full of it, because I will die in here if you do not. I can remember several times stomping offstage in the middle of a dance break with my big three-fingered rubber hands pounding on the table saying, open my mouth! Oh my god. It was crazy. So I did that for the summer. It was tons of fun. I've never been more fit in my life.

[9:10] Sean Chandler: I'll bet.

[9:11] Billy Hipkins: Yeah.

[9:11] Sean Chandler: That'll cut your body down, right?

[9:13] Billy Hipkins: Oh my god. You're inside an exercise machine for an hour show, and boy, that hour show felt like days.

[9:19] Sean Chandler: And how many shows back-to-back would you have to work in a day?

[9:23] Billy Hipkins: You know, honestly, it was pretty simple compared to a lot of theme parks. So I think we never did more than maybe two in a day.

[9:29] Sean Chandler: Oh, okay.

[9:30] Billy Hipkins: But it was a grueling show.

[9:33] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[9:33] Billy Hipkins: And the thing is, with the head, the head was seven pounds, and you had a 10-pound battery in the smaller back under all this to run the thing. So it's weighty, and the head itself has padding all over it. The skulls inside have been molded to my head. But you have to, every day, put a little more padding at your temple and a little more padding by your cheek, and if you put too much, you've got a nail in your forehead now.

[9:58] Sean Chandler: Oh my god.

[9:59] Billy Hipkins: And if you didn't put enough, it is banging around on your head for the hour. It was torture. I mean, that thing was just so... Every day was a whole, I need to put a little more there, I need to take a little out there, and I hope I got it right before we hit the deck.

[10:12] Sean Chandler: Oh, jeez.

[10:12] Billy Hipkins: It was a lot.

[10:13] Sean Chandler: Oh my god.

[10:14] Billy Hipkins: It was a lot.

[10:15] Sean Chandler: I can only imagine, because, I mean, I've been to a couple of Six Flags, and generally, in the summer, and it is just... Like, the one I've been to the most is the one that's in California.

[10:24] Billy Hipkins: Did you play that one?

[10:25] Billy Hipkins: I dedicated the Ninja Roller Coaster, which was one of the early, above-suspended roller coasters, in my costume, riding with April O'Neil, cover reporter, and a bunch of kids who were there for the dedication of the ride.

[10:40] Sean Chandler: You rode the roller coaster in the costume?

[10:43] Billy Hipkins: The thing is, because it's the harness that goes up over your shoulders, I couldn't get that over me with the head on, so they had to hold up black cloth around me, sit me down, take my head off, put the harness on me, put my head back on. Then the designers of the costume said, if the wind force hits his face, it's going to rip the skin off the head. So they made me ride with my hands over my face, crouch down like I'm a big wuss in crash position. I was a furious turtle. So I was like, I'm in a picture. I'm like, I look like I'm scared. Donatello was not scared.

[11:17] Sean Chandler: Oh, we all took it very seriously.

[11:20] Billy Hipkins: We go out to Kmart and see lunchboxes. Look at me on this lunchbox. That's not me. That's not me. But it feels like it's me on the lunchbox.

[11:30] Sean Chandler: Well, it's kind of its own club, I would imagine.

[11:34] Billy Hipkins: I would imagine there's lots of Donatellas.

[11:36] Sean Chandler: Donatella?

[11:37] Billy Hipkins: Donatello.

[11:38] Sean Chandler: Donatello, okay.

[11:39] Billy Hipkins: Yeah.

[11:39] Sean Chandler: Okay.

[11:40] Billy Hipkins: Donatello is male.

[11:41] Sean Chandler: All right.

[11:41] Billy Hipkins: Donatello is a Versace.

[11:43] Sean Chandler: Okay, cool.

[11:48] Billy Hipkins: And there can't be more than maybe, I don't know, at this point, probably two, three hundred people who have done that at this point.

[11:59] Sean Chandler: Sure.

[11:59] Billy Hipkins: I mean, that product gets a little bit of a bump every so often.

[12:05] Sean Chandler: Absolutely.

[12:05] Billy Hipkins: It doesn't go away.

[12:06] Sean Chandler: Yeah.

[12:07] Billy Hipkins: It's like a movie or a car. I'm old enough to remember when it first hit TV. I mean, I wasn't into it. I was in my 20s, but my sister watched it.

[12:20] Sean Chandler: Anyways, what fun and what a great credit to have stories.

[12:25] Billy Hipkins: Oh, see, all of my credits are like that.

[12:28] Sean Chandler: Oh, it's awesome.

[12:29] Billy Hipkins: I love it. I was in one Broadway show. I was in Anna Karenina, the musical.

[12:32] Sean Chandler: The first show on.

[12:36] Billy Hipkins: 1992 season?

[12:38] Sean Chandler: You saw it.

[12:39] Billy Hipkins: Well, I didn't see it.

[12:40] Sean Chandler: No, I saw it and I just pulled up some credits. Here's that. It was at Circle in the Square when they were still producing their own works.

[12:49] Billy Hipkins: Oh, wow.

[12:50] Sean Chandler: And.

[12:51] Billy Hipkins: Same theater, same style.

[12:52] Sean Chandler: Same style. Because I love the style of the theater.

[12:55] Billy Hipkins: Yeah.

[12:55] Sean Chandler: The show before us was a double hander.

[12:58] Billy Hipkins: It was two back to back one acts with Al Pacino, Salome and Chinese Coffee.

[13:05] Sean Chandler: And what we didn't know until after we were into it was a lot of sentences. Apparently, this is I heard from St. Hunter. A lot of sentences on that show began with Al once.

[13:14] Billy Hipkins: So their money is falling away under them.

[13:17] Sean Chandler: So by the time they get to Anna Karenina, the musical, they plan to have a turntable on that basketball court of a set.

[13:24] Billy Hipkins: And then as they're already starting, they realize we can't afford the turntable. So Terry Mann was the artistic director and he directed it. Patricia Birch, the legend, choreographed it. They've already started rehearsal. And that's when she is told no turntables.

[13:41] Sean Chandler: So she says, well, I'm going to need two more people to move scenery and sound of ours and shit around what will not be a turntable. So there I see it backstage. A little notice. Tomorrow is cast to call for extras for Anna Karenina on the Broadway musical.

[13:57] Billy Hipkins: Oh, shit. I know everybody else.

[13:58] Sean Chandler: All these guys. We move across the floor to basic steps to for her assistant, who steps out of rehearsal. And then 10 of us get called back the following afternoon at 5 and she can come over and see us at Noble Studios.

[14:11] Billy Hipkins: And then 10 of us move across the floor for her, you know, basic, basic. And then we step out of the hall and the stage manager came out and said, do you want to wait to hear calls or do you want to know? We want to know. The two of us that look the most alike, you're it.

[14:27] Sean Chandler: Oh, wow.

[14:28] Billy Hipkins: And we are extras in this thing. No speaking, no talking, no singing. Just moving things around.

[14:56] Billy Hipkins: Is typically on a commercial. Somebody who has no dialogue is not completely recognizable or interacting with the on or off camera message.

[15:11] Billy Hipkins: That is a true extra and typically if you hit two of those categories. So anyways, enough about that.

[15:18] Billy Hipkins: So I'm doing that and here's what's crazy. Circle in the Square was much like Roundabout here in the city, much like Lincoln Center Theater.

[15:27] Billy Hipkins: It's a LORT theater, like original theaters, theater. Which means the money is not even standard production contract money.

[15:35] Billy Hipkins: And as an extra on a LORT contract, I was making less money than I was on unemployment.

[15:43] Sean W Chandler: Oh really?

[15:44] Billy Hipkins: I was making a cut to be in a Broadway show. And move scenery and samovars and fucking cast iron, wrought iron cafe tables with marble tops.

[15:56] Billy Hipkins: I wore a lifting belt under my costume. I looked like Fievel the Mouse. It was bad. It was bad. It was bad.

[16:04] Billy Hipkins: Ten weeks. Ten weeks.

[16:06] Sean W Chandler: All these 80s and 90s cartoon references I'm loving.

[16:11] Billy Hipkins: And I mean I was heartbroken because I wanted Broadway so long. It's not supposed to be like this.

[16:16] Billy Hipkins: And it was a show that in my opinion, I mean I've never had a show produced on Broadway, so what do I know.

[16:21] Billy Hipkins: But it was a show that was half good and half not.

[16:25] Billy Hipkins: But Anne Crumb, God rest her soul, was our leading lady and was nominated for the Tony.

[16:30] Billy Hipkins: And I think very rightly she was phenomenal. There were things in it that were phenomenal.

[16:33] Sean W Chandler: I've never heard of her. I'm sorry.

[16:35] Billy Hipkins: Yeah.

[16:36] Billy Hipkins: I apologize.

[16:37] Billy Hipkins: But Anne Crumb, she was the original cast of Les Mis. I think she was the original Funky cover.

[16:42] Billy Hipkins: She's, if you listen to the recording, she's one of those like,

[16:44] Billy Hipkins: What pretty locks you've got there.

[16:46] Billy Hipkins: She's one of those ladies.

[16:47] Sean W Chandler: Okay.

[16:48] Billy Hipkins: She also starred in Aspect of, I always call it Aspect of Love.

[16:51] Billy Hipkins: Aspect of Love.

[16:52] Billy Hipkins: Aspect of Love.

[16:53] Billy Hipkins: So she had credits and a career.

[16:55] Sean W Chandler: Oh wow.

[16:56] Billy Hipkins: And she is gone.

[16:57] Billy Hipkins: She was just a sweet, wonderful person and very good in that show.

[17:01] Billy Hipkins: But for me that show itself is just, this is not what I came here to do.

[17:06] Sean W Chandler: Well, it's got some people of whom I'm aware that are kind of starry.

[17:11] Billy Hipkins: Greg Edelman.

[17:12] Sean W Chandler: Greg Edelman.

[17:13] Billy Hipkins: Melissa Eriko.

[17:14] Sean W Chandler: Melissa Eriko.

[17:15] Billy Hipkins: Yeah.

[17:16] Billy Hipkins: Yeah, Jerry Lanning, the original Patrick in name.

[17:19] Billy Hipkins: I mean, that cast was full of heavy hitters.

[17:22] Sean W Chandler: Yeah, for sure.

[17:23] Billy Hipkins: And me and this guy Jerry, we even looked the most alike, dressed like Fievel the Mouse, shoving furniture around.

[17:28] Sean W Chandler: Oh my gosh, that's got to be crazy.

[17:30] Billy Hipkins: Now,

[17:31] Billy Hipkins: It was crazy.

[17:33] Sean W Chandler: For the sake of our, people listen to the show and maybe they're not completely into,

[17:41] Sean W Chandler: a lot of people are into theater, but some of them aren't, and they just are interested in it.

[17:46] Sean W Chandler: Describe what the Circle in the Square theater looks like so they know what you're talking about.

[17:50] Billy Hipkins: Oh, okay.

[17:51] Billy Hipkins: Well, basically the playing area is a basketball court.

[17:54] Billy Hipkins: So you've got audience on three sides of it.

[17:58] Billy Hipkins: And then the upstage part is, there is a proscenium and an upstage area, but it's all on the floor.

[18:03] Billy Hipkins: It's not like a raised stage with an audience.

[18:06] Billy Hipkins: Like most theaters, it's a raised stage with the audience kind of underneath you,

[18:09] Billy Hipkins: but this is really audiences on three sides of you when you're on the basketball court.

[18:14] Billy Hipkins: And some shows can rearrange it to have seating also on the fourth side, upstage of the basketball court.

[18:21] Billy Hipkins: The space itself can kind of shift and move like that.

[18:25] Billy Hipkins: So I know right now Justin Time is playing with that, and I think they've also added some more cafe-like seating within the playing space.

[18:34] Billy Hipkins: So you can really, it is a space that unlike proscenium arch standard theater, it can kind of adjust and shift and be whatever you want it to be.

[18:38] Sean W Chandler: Right, so like onstage seating, which I know that they did because I saw it.

[18:47] Sean W Chandler: It's a really good show, by the way.

[18:48] Sean W Chandler: I thought it was, I liked it a lot more than I thought it would.

[18:51] Sean W Chandler: I was just telling David that I wanted to go back and see the new production of it.

[18:56] Sean W Chandler: There's talent there that I'm interested in seeing.

[18:59] Sean W Chandler: Plus I always like to go see when new people go into the arts or when understudy.

[19:04] Sean W Chandler: I'm that theater geek who loves that.

[19:07] Billy Hipkins: The great thing about live theater is that you put different people in it, and it changes the temperature, and it changes the chemistry.

[19:13] Billy Hipkins: It can make it great. It can make it sometimes not so great.

[19:17] Billy Hipkins: When you're artistic people, are they keeping an eye on their product?

[19:20] Billy Hipkins: What are they thinking three years down the road?

[19:22] Billy Hipkins: Now that we've put a tour out, and we've re-looked at the material, and we've sat with it a bit, we've decided to change some things.

[19:27] Sean W Chandler: You're very right about that.

[19:28] Billy Hipkins: It's on them to decide.

[19:30] Billy Hipkins: It also comes down to when they're not around, who's your associate director who's keeping track of it?

[19:37] Billy Hipkins: When they're not around, who in stage management is keeping track of the performances?

[19:41] Billy Hipkins: Are we staying on target or not?

[19:42] Billy Hipkins: Everything drifts, so somebody's got to keep an eye on the opening night product.

[19:47] Billy Hipkins: Are we staying there, or are we not?

[19:49] Sean W Chandler: I have a question about that.

[19:51] Sean W Chandler: This is a little bit of a tangent, but now that you brought that up,

[19:56] Sean W Chandler: I've always heard that it's typically the stage manager is the person that, keeping the show pristine, if you will.

[20:01] Sean W Chandler: They're the person who's responsible for that and making sure that everything's reported,

[20:07] Sean W Chandler: and when people are making mistakes, when they need to be better, when, and that.

[20:13] Sean W Chandler: Is there a situation where occasionally the director of the show will just, I don't know, turn up?

[20:21] Billy Hipkins: Oh, sure.

[20:23] Billy Hipkins: And sort of a surprise inspection, if you will?

[20:26] Billy Hipkins: Okay, but now it's two things.

[20:27] Billy Hipkins: It's stage management, but it is also the dance captain who could very well, as likely, in the show, maybe a swing on the show,

[20:35] Billy Hipkins: but they are also there to, like, I'm going to go out front and note tonight.

[20:38] Billy Hipkins: I'm going to watch the show.

[20:40] Billy Hipkins: Stage management is basically there to keep track of the performances and the blocking,

[20:45] Billy Hipkins: whereas dance captain's there to keep track of the spacing and the dance moves.

[20:51] Billy Hipkins: Your arm is not in the right place.

[20:52] Billy Hipkins: You're doing that three counts too early.

[20:54] Billy Hipkins: That's, the spacing has drifted on.

[20:57] Billy Hipkins: That's, so it kind of breaks down to those two camps.

[21:00] Billy Hipkins: But as far as, in a lot of shows, we'll have an associate director, like who was the assistant when it first went together,

[21:06] Billy Hipkins: who could pop in and out whenever, expected or not, to just know to keep track of the show.

[21:13] Billy Hipkins: But then on occasion, yeah, the director might just come back.

[21:16] Billy Hipkins: And Hal Prince, family opera, would always come back.

[21:20] Billy Hipkins: Every six or nine months, he'd pop in.

[21:23] Billy Hipkins: And the thing was, he wouldn't tell anybody.

[21:25] Billy Hipkins: Within three beats after the downbeat, everybody knew.

[21:29] Billy Hipkins: Hal's here.

[21:30] Sean W Chandler: Hurk up.

[21:31] Billy Hipkins: Hal's watching.

[21:32] Sean W Chandler: Exactly.

[21:33] Billy Hipkins: Hal's here.

[21:34] Billy Hipkins: Everyone knows.

[21:35] Billy Hipkins: You can't keep things from actors.

[21:37] Billy Hipkins: They know.

[21:38] Billy Hipkins: Oh, I'm sure.

[21:39] Billy Hipkins: They step out there.

[21:40] Billy Hipkins: They know.

[21:41] Billy Hipkins: Or someone says, and then it's like wildfire.

[21:43] Billy Hipkins: Everybody knows.

[21:45] Billy Hipkins: The Goldbergs here.

[21:46] Billy Hipkins: The Goldbergs here.

[21:47] Billy Hipkins: The Goldbergs here.

[21:48] Billy Hipkins: They know.

[21:49] Billy Hipkins: They know.

[21:50] Billy Hipkins: It's, a lot of that is also because of the fact that the,

[21:55] Billy Hipkins: when you're in a Broadway show, when you work a Broadway show, performer, wardrobe person, stage manager, whatever,

[22:05] Billy Hipkins: it's a lot of work and it's very time consuming.

[22:08] Billy Hipkins: It kind of, I want to say, probably becomes, it's your life.

[22:12] Sean W Chandler: Sure.

[22:13] Billy Hipkins: So your focus is like that.

[22:15] Billy Hipkins: And anything that's coming in and affecting it, it's like, oh, okay, you're very, very hyper aware of it.

[22:21] Sean W Chandler: Oh yeah.

[22:22] Billy Hipkins: As opposed to having lots of different irons in the fire and stuff, where you might hear that and go,

[22:27] Billy Hipkins: well there's also this over here.

[22:28] Billy Hipkins: So mentally I would assume that you're like, okay, this is it.

[22:32] Billy Hipkins: I need to make sure that I am on fire all the time with my performance and whatever I'm doing.

[22:40] Sean W Chandler: Ideally, yes.

[22:41] Billy Hipkins: Do we do that?

[22:42] Billy Hipkins: No, not everybody always.

[22:44] Billy Hipkins: I've done the same thing eight times a week, possibly for years.

[22:47] Sean W Chandler: Yeah, that's true.

[22:49] Billy Hipkins: So the only thing that is different and changes is all the backstage shenanigans, and there's always backstage shenanigans.

[22:58] Sean W Chandler: I would imagine.

[22:59] Billy Hipkins: Because you'd lose your mind.

[23:00] Billy Hipkins: It's rote.

[23:01] Billy Hipkins: It's like working for the post office.

[23:02] Billy Hipkins: It's the mail.

[23:03] Billy Hipkins: It keeps coming and coming and coming.

[23:04] Billy Hipkins: Eight times a week, over and over.

[23:06] Billy Hipkins: And when we pass in the wing, we high five.

[23:09] Billy Hipkins: And when they sing this, we sing this back from the script change group.

[23:12] Billy Hipkins: And when that happens, we do this.

[23:14] Billy Hipkins: And at this point, we go downstairs and we get snacks in the wardrobe room.

[23:16] Billy Hipkins: And at this point, I mean, there's all of that going on behind the show.

[23:21] Billy Hipkins: And also, there's plenty of onstage stuff going on that you never know about, but we know about.

[23:26] Sean W Chandler: I mean, you know.

[23:27] Billy Hipkins: Well, every once in a while, I'll see something where I'm like,

[23:31] Billy Hipkins: okay, I've seen this show like three times.

[23:33] Billy Hipkins: Oh yeah.

[23:34] Billy Hipkins: I don't remember that.

[23:35] Billy Hipkins: Well, there's always the point where he looks into the wing,

[23:37] Billy Hipkins: and there's a tableau set up every single day to try to make him laugh.

[23:41] Billy Hipkins: Every single day.

[23:42] Billy Hipkins: I mean, not every show and not every one.

[23:46] Billy Hipkins: But you kind of figure it out of like who wants to, you know, who's playing and who's not.

[23:52] Billy Hipkins: And also, with integrity first.

[23:54] Billy Hipkins: It is not like any, I don't think any of us on Broadway are acting like,

[23:59] Billy Hipkins: eh, this audience, fuck them.

[24:00] Billy Hipkins: It's really not like that.

[24:02] Billy Hipkins: Oh yeah.

[24:03] Billy Hipkins: It's show first, but we'll lose our minds if we're just like robotically, routinely doing that same thing over and over.

[24:07] Sean W Chandler: Well, if it helps keep you in it, it's good.

[24:10] Billy Hipkins: Yeah.

[24:11] Billy Hipkins: Because I can, I've always, I've often thought, you know, like I've seen this person do this part eight times over the course of

[24:17] Billy Hipkins: three or four or five years.

[24:19] Billy Hipkins: And are they up there just kind of like, I don't know, doing their shopping list in their head?

[24:25] Billy Hipkins: Sometimes.

[24:26] Billy Hipkins: I mean, and that's, there is a point with actors.

[24:30] Billy Hipkins: It happened on Ragtime with somebody who had never done a Broadway show before, and a few months in, he kind of was like,

[24:34] Billy Hipkins: I almost forgot my lines.

[24:35] Billy Hipkins: I was like, oh, it's gone from that side of your brain to the other side because now it's just rote that you've been doing it.

[24:40] Sean W Chandler: Right.

[24:41] Billy Hipkins: So it's a new skill set.

[24:43] Billy Hipkins: That is something that is not taught.

[24:45] Billy Hipkins: It can't be taught in schools.

[24:47] Billy Hipkins: You can go to acting school.

[24:48] Billy Hipkins: You can do all sorts of stuff.

[24:50] Billy Hipkins: No one can teach you how to keep your performance fresh in year two.

[24:54] Sean W Chandler: Yeah.

[24:55] Billy Hipkins: And three.

[24:56] Billy Hipkins: And seven.

[24:57] Billy Hipkins: That's something you've got to figure out.

[25:00] Sean W Chandler: You know, I have a really funny story about that.

[25:03] Sean W Chandler: David and I were very fortunate to see,

[25:08] Sean W Chandler: do you remember the gender flip company that was here a while back where they took the show company?

[25:14] Billy Hipkins: Oh, sure, yeah.

[25:15] Sean W Chandler: And they changed the gender of the lead character, a lot of the characters within the show.

[25:21] Sean W Chandler: Well, Patti LuPone was in that show,

[25:25] Sean W Chandler: and she was also in the London cast.

[25:28] Sean W Chandler: We were lucky enough to just randomly catch a performance where they did a talk back afterwards,

[25:35] Sean W Chandler: and they asked a question.

[25:36] Sean W Chandler: It was Rosalie Craig who played Bobby in the London cast.

[25:41] Sean W Chandler: Katrina Lenk played it.

[25:44] Sean W Chandler: I fucking love Katrina Lenk.

[25:46] Sean W Chandler: Anyway, she played in the London cast,

[25:50] Sean W Chandler: and Patti LuPone played Joanne,

[25:55] Sean W Chandler: the Ladies to Lunch character,

[25:57] Sean W Chandler: and afterwards we're sitting there,

[25:58] Sean W Chandler: and they're up on the stage, those two,

[26:01] Sean W Chandler: along with the director, Marian Elliott, who's a brilliant director,

[26:05] Sean W Chandler: and somebody raised their hand and was like,

[26:08] Sean W Chandler: how do you keep that fresh like eight times a week or the multiple times?

[26:15] Sean W Chandler: How do you do this and then go and have a break for three hours and then go all the way back to the beginning and then do it again?

[26:25] Billy Hipkins: Well, Patti LuPone leans forward and she goes,

[26:29] Billy Hipkins: she made this into five syllables, training.

[26:35] Billy Hipkins: It was like she just basically said,

[26:38] Billy Hipkins: you train for it.

[26:40] Billy Hipkins: You do it.

[26:41] Billy Hipkins: You take classes.

[26:43] Billy Hipkins: You go to school.

[26:44] Billy Hipkins: You get as many jobs as you can, whatever you need to do to figure that out.

[26:49] Sean W Chandler: I never understood how that could happen, but I don't have an adage for it.

[26:51] Sean W Chandler: I understand her point, but I still don't think that until you're doing the run,

[26:57] Sean W Chandler: that's a different wrench that gets thrown at you in week, in month seven of just like again, again, again, again.

[27:04] Billy Hipkins: Right.

[27:05] Billy Hipkins: It's a different,

[27:06] Billy Hipkins: you develop a different skill set to keep yourself fresh.

[27:09] Sean W Chandler: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[27:10] Billy Hipkins: It's a different skill set.

[27:12] Billy Hipkins: I've talked to actors who have been,

[27:14] Billy Hipkins: I have a friend who was in a show that was a very, very long show to perform and was like,

[27:17] Billy Hipkins: how do you do that?

[27:21] Billy Hipkins: He goes, you know, you just do it.

[27:23] Billy Hipkins: You start at the beginning and you do the next thing and the next.

[27:26] Billy Hipkins: And sometimes you can do it in beat by beat by beat.

[27:28] Billy Hipkins: And sometimes you can do it, you know, with fluidity through the whole thing.

[27:33] Billy Hipkins: You get through it.

[27:34] Billy Hipkins: Well, and to a large extent, muscle memory will carry you through it too.

[27:38] Billy Hipkins: Because even as a dresser, I mean, I know my track.

[27:41] Billy Hipkins: I know I'm in this and then this and then this.

[27:43] Billy Hipkins: But months, months later, I hear that music and my body knows stand up, we're going to stage left.

[27:49] Sean W Chandler: Oh, yeah.

[27:50] Billy Hipkins: So there's that.

[27:51] Billy Hipkins: I mean, it's just everything will follow in muscle memory of just when this happens, I'm doing that.

[27:56] Billy Hipkins: And what's interesting is when I've been swinging.

[28:00] Billy Hipkins: Now, if I need to break that down, it's easy on the swing actors.

[28:06] Billy Hipkins: Your audience probably knows this.

[28:08] Billy Hipkins: When you're looking at the program, you see principal characters and who they're playing.

[28:11] Billy Hipkins: And that block of names that says, you know, ensemble.

[28:14] Billy Hipkins: And then a little block of names that says swings.

[28:16] Billy Hipkins: Swings are people that are not on stage full time, but are in the building full time.

[28:21] Billy Hipkins: So, example, the Phantom of the Opera is covered by two of the guys from the ensemble.

[28:26] Billy Hipkins: He is on vacation this week, so Jeremy's going to be playing the next four shows

[28:30] Billy Hipkins: and then John will play the second four shows of the week.

[28:33] Billy Hipkins: While Jeremy is on for the Phantom, Joe, the swing, will be on in Jeremy's track.

[28:40] Billy Hipkins: A track meaning he's this guy, then he's that guy, then he's that, then he's this.

[28:43] Billy Hipkins: And in segment, the offstage positions, my track is I do this, I go there, I do this, I go there.

[28:48] Billy Hipkins: That's my track.

[28:49] Billy Hipkins: The difference with swings and offstage positions in all departments is we are not in the building full time.

[28:54] Billy Hipkins: We are on call.

[28:56] Billy Hipkins: So, example, I spent a year at Book of Mormon where I knew five of the seven dressers' tracks

[29:01] Billy Hipkins: and was on call for a year to cover any one of them at any time.

[29:04] Billy Hipkins: Very often that was, he's on vacation for a week and a half on these dates.

[29:11] Billy Hipkins: Will you cover it? Got it. It's in the book.

[29:13] Billy Hipkins: Or it's four in the afternoon.

[29:15] Billy Hipkins: She just called out sick.

[29:17] Billy Hipkins: Can you be here at 6.30 with your notes, with your apron, with your black clothes on?

[29:21] Billy Hipkins: Sure, I'll be there.

[29:22] Billy Hipkins: So being a swing can very much be a life where you're on call at a moment's notice.

[29:26] Billy Hipkins: And a lot of people end up, to just cover their bills, end up swinging three tracks on Wicked, two on Lion King, one over here on this, one over there on that,

[29:37] Billy Hipkins: day work on this, day work on that.

[29:38] Billy Hipkins: So it kind of can be a maddening life of just, I've got to kind of have my notes for all things with me at all times.

[29:44] Billy Hipkins: I don't know how people do that.

[29:46] Billy Hipkins: It's a lot, I never want to do it again.

[29:48] Billy Hipkins: I can, I will, and I'm not sure I will,

[29:50] Billy Hipkins: but doing it in multiple places is like, oh my God.

[29:52] Billy Hipkins: But there was a point to that. Yes, so being a swing on a show, when I know five positions of Book of Mormon, I know when I hear that music, I do something very important. Sometimes. Is that the track I'm doing tonight? No. Okay, I'm good. But you'll have a brain freeze of like, I'm supposed to be somebody. No, wait, that's the other track. Got it, got it, got it. And that's the same with onstage swings. I mean, people that know six different women's dance moves and positions in a musical number, it's a lot to keep your head on straight of like, I turn on six, not on seven. I'm on left, not on right. I exit that way to do the quick change, not that way. And your best swings are people that know their offstage traffic.

As wardrobe, I will tell you, it is so maddening and frankly disrespectful when people don't know their offstage shit. I don't know what I'm doing. Well, then we'll just shove you around and make sure you get dressed again. Yeah, let's be professional. We'll all work harder if you haven't bothered to learn it. Maybe the first time or the first two times. Of course. You know, you're thirsty. Okay, I'm sorry. In previews, without ever having to learn something, we're there for you. And with me, if you give me the slightest inkling of I'm trying, I'm all yours. But when I have people for the entire run, and boy, I could name names, and I'm not going to, who spent the entire run going, I don't know what I'm doing, and never learned.

And I just got to shove them around. Duh. That bothers me. And those people don't. Come on, guys. If you did that on stage, there'd be a big problem. So why bring it to the wing to make it my problem? It's not fair. Yeah, I mean, it's very, very irresponsible. I mean, there are, I'm sure, if you look at the Patti LuPones, the Ethel Mermans, you know, the Jerry Orbachs, the people who really came on and knew how to do a lead role, that would probably absolutely insult them.

[32:01] Billy Hipkins: Oh, absolutely. They'd be like, what the fuck are you doing? What are you doing? Sure. Yeah, get it together. You wanted to do this. You worked your ass. Your parents paid for college, or you paid for it. Part of your job is that part of your job. Right. Exactly. And any other job, and I would imagine it's exactly the same way. I mean, it is work. It's still work, and you're still being... Well, you were at work. You were at work, exactly. Sure. It would be like going and being an office manager and saying, someone comes in, well, something's wrong with the computers. Well, I don't know what's going on here. Well, can you figure it out? And claiming, proclaiming ignorance. That makes me crazy.

You have swings that, if they're not on, well, not every day necessarily, but really you'll see them in the wing with notes, tracking people and remembering, right, this track does that, that track does this, uh-huh, uh-huh. And then you have people that are in their dressing room on Netflix until they're needed. And some of those people step out and are like, great, got it. Or other people are like, I don't know. Well, thanks. And I was busy watching Stranger Things during the course of the show.

[34:20] Billy Hipkins: Yeah, I would imagine that there would be certain theaters who'd be like, you don't get to do that. I don't know, maybe that's an offense to a contract. I don't know. I don't know that you have any leg to stand. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. If they make it on stage and dressed, nobody questions it. And that's kind of standard when it comes to hair, wardrobe, and offstage positions of just like, we always make it happen. So there's kind of a disconnect of like, yes, but what did we have to go through to make it happen? That's rude to those positions if you're not professional. But that's what it is. They'll do things like, hey, we know that they don't cover this position, but because they're going to be out and he's going to be sick and this one just got injured and we have a medical leave, you also put them in clothes and have that person do this thing? Let's just pull clothes out of our ass and make it happen for you. Sure. And we always do. So there is kind of this like, well, don't just make it happen. Hair will make it happen. Okay.

[34:53] Sean W Chandler: I could listen to these stories all day. But let's get a little bit more into wardrobe. Now, when I met you, as you had said, well, at the time I met you, you were a dresser in the wardrobe department for Ragtime the Musical, which, by the way, I loved and I recommended to so many people on the show when I would go see other shows. Talk about being a dresser in the wardrobe department. What are the responsibilities of a dresser in the show? What's your typical day like in that department?

[35:06] Billy Hipkins: Sure. So for wardrobe, the day starts pretty early, usually by 9 o'clock in the morning, 10 o'clock latest, I'd say. Somebody is in doing last night's laundry because, thank God, by equity rule, people don't have to wear the same socks or bras two times in a row. So anything that is body-hugging gets washed daily. So that said, every Broadway show and everybody in it has to have at least two sets of full laundry, hopefully three, should there be an emergency. Like the second show of the day, he tried to put on that sock, I ripped his heel right through it, I need the third pair of socks. And every show has its own breakdown of laundry. Example, Back to the Future, the ladies are in the 50s and the 80s and the 50s, so that's a bra that looks like this for the 50s and a bra that looks like that for the 80s, and, and, and.

Paul Tazewell, bless his heart, great designer, but on Memphis, every man in the ensemble of that show had at least five to seven pairs of socks because every time you changed your pants, you changed your socks too. Drives actors crazy. Try putting a sock on your sweaty, wet sock foot. It's awful and they did it all night.

[36:20] Sean W Chandler: So all this laundry is this universe that's being coordinated every single day.

[36:22] Billy Hipkins: Yes, they did. Oh my God. And the clothes were sensational. I can't argue with that. I agree. I thought that was a really good. You can't argue with the outcome. It's gorgeous. But the actor, I had one actor who said, I'm putting all pair of socks on at the top of the show and I'll peel them off as I go. And I said, you're going to stretch out your shoes. They're my shoes. No, no argument. You're right. No argument. Yes.

[36:35] Billy Hipkins: So starting at the beginning of the day, laundry's happening. The other thing that starts happening early is day work comes in. That means a stitcher because you have, that's the secret weapon in any wardrobe department is the stitcher. A sleeve ripped in half last night. The lining of this is starting to fray. The crotch on this is going. We know that we need to replace that thing on this and now that we have a breather minute, let's get to that. And that is a person with skills on a sewing machine and skills possibly as a tailor and stuff to really dig in and fix a costume that might have to be taken apart and put back together to be on stage tonight. While they're doing that, they might also be altering.

This new person's coming in and they're going to be wearing somebody else's clothes that are leaving, so we're going to alter all of their things. It's a whole universe of stitching. One of the two supervisors, if it's a bigger musical, you've got a super and an assistant. So one of them will be in as this all begins for the day.

[37:24] Billy Hipkins: And by noon, day workers are in. And every show will determine on its own how many day workers we need to go through every costume, to steam, to iron, to, as shows are coming to the laundry, they need to be pressed again to be back in the show. Shoes. Checking the rubber on shoes. Rubber peeling off a shoe can get somebody very hurt. Polishing those shoes. Painting those shoes. If they're very much like a Thoroughly Modern Millie, those shoes were sensational creations of art with seven colors on them, each of which has been a mixed color that needs to be touched up on the daily. So you have a whole millinery. You have people cleaning out hats, refurbishing hats, taking care of the hats. In the dressing rooms, up in the quick-change booth, down in the basement, this thing goes there, that thing goes there.

Wherever it is, you have people, an army of people, maintaining the show. Every snap, every hook, every button, every Velcro. If you try to stay away from Velcro, it tears at fabric. The male side of Velcro, the scratchy side, tears at fabric. So you've got to do all the maintenance on this.

[38:24] Billy Hipkins: And I mean, standard things people don't know is also like a guy wearing a dress shirt with a tie. If it is a musical, I'm going to almost guarantee you that is not a buttoned-up shirt with a tied tie. It is a shirt that has had the buttons taken off, snaps put under the buttons, and then the buttons thrown back over the top so they can pop it open like Superman. And the neck has a Velcro at the neck, and the tie has been cut down to tabs that is snapped under one side of the collar and Velcroed under the other side of the collar. So we can get you out of it really quick, get you in, snap, snap, snap, snap, tie. So all of that is going on, and all of it needs to be maintained. So that's all happening during the day.

When I come in as a dresser with a track, when we come in, in most situations, it's an hour before half hour. So if it's a 7 o'clock show, we're coming in at 5:30. Things like Stranger Things or shows like Harry Potter that have a lot of trick costumes, they're doing two hours before half hour to get everything set inside of this and hidden in that space, and this goes there and that goes like that. It takes them that time to set their show.

[39:28] Billy Hipkins: But once we come in, we're going to get the ins and outs for the day. Now that could be something we knew a week ago. Rebecca's out tonight, and Jill's going out for Rebecca tonight. We know that. So switch all of their clothes out because actors should not share clothes in most every situation. They might share a coat. They might share a fur. They might have to share this or that. But for the most part, we do our damnedest to not have people sharing things for size and for cleanliness as best we can. Sanitation. Sure. So if somebody is out and we come in and get the ins and outs, whether it's a surprise or a no, I have to go to all the locations where that person's clothes are in the dressing room, in the quick change booth, in the other quick change booth, down in the basement, or that other place where they have the thing that ends up on the set and switch all of that out, hide it someplace, and get all the understudy clothes slotted in to all those positions.

[40:28] Billy Hipkins: So that track's clothes, everything is where they need to be. Every hat, every shoe, everything. Their laundry's pulled. They've got their mic belt for their mic. I mean, they're set. So when we come in, no matter if it's my standard guys, on Ragtime I have three principal guys, standard set their stuff or switch them out. In ensemble, you're almost guaranteed to switch out on a daily. Somebody's going to be out. Someone's going to be injured. Someone's going to be sick. If you're one of the ensemble dressers, most ensembles on a musical have two or three. Say, male ensemble will have two or three dressers. Female might have two or three dressers, depending on the needs of the show. You're almost guaranteed somebody's out or back.

So switching out, switching in, switching out. And then when enough people are out, then you do split tracks, where now one swing is going to cover two positions. So, okay, that means they need that for this and that for that. They're going to double that. They're going to be cut from that. They're going to be thin that. They're going to get, whew, so we've all got the ins and outs.

[41:19] Billy Hipkins: And if it is a split track night, that's when we also as a group have to figure out, okay, if there's no dance partner for him in that number, he is a cut couple, meaning that usually he's going to come off after the dance number and do his chains with us. But since he's not in the number, he'll get there early. Or he's going to get there later because he has to move the scenery because she's not there to do it. So they're going to find him late. You've got to work it out. And all these scenarios are worked out with stage management, with dance captains, with our supervisors, and with the dressers to communicate, this is the show we're presenting tonight. That all happens the hour before half hour.

Ideally, by half hour, we should be done setting the show so we are available for our actors to get them dressed if needed. Most of them don't want to even touch a costume before five minutes to places, but everyone's got their own thing. So that's kind of our time to, like, get something to eat, hang out, do whatever. You know, that's when the shenanigans start.

[42:14] Sean W Chandler: They don't want to get in costume until five minutes till...

[42:17] Billy Hipkins: Oh, for God's sake, you're doing it for seven months, eight months, ten months, twelve months. Who wants to put on that fur coat? Well, okay, a coat, but geez, I would be too nervous. I would be too nervous. Well, I mean, there are some, as I say, there are people that get in up there and an hour before, the original cast of the play that goes wrong, the Brits, lovely humans, they would come in two hours before curtain, immediately put on their costumes, and roll around on the floor and eat and just slob around in chairs, and because they created the show, you could nicely say to them, you know you're wrinkling that, and they would just say, yes, I created this. So they were very nice, but they were like, I'm not taking this off. I'm just going to roll around in it.

[43:06] Sean W Chandler: Oh my God.

[43:07] Billy Hipkins: Fair? Okay.

[43:08] Sean W Chandler: Oh no.

[43:09] Billy Hipkins: Well, I guess they're ready if not a little bit wrinkled. They're ready. And there are definitely times when we have to say to actors, excuse me in the white dress, could you not lay on the deck, please?

[43:16] Sean W Chandler: What's the deck?

[43:17] Billy Hipkins: I'm sorry. The stage surface. That's the deck.

[43:19] Sean W Chandler: Oh, okay. Interesting. I didn't know that.

[43:21] Billy Hipkins: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's not the stage floor of the actual theater. Most every single stage floor you're looking at is a painted surface, a raised surface, and if it has automation, it's got to be raised because you've got machinery under it tracking the scenery, moving it back and forth. There's a whole other universe of the deck is not the stage. It is the deck that is upon the stage. And when I show tours, you're touring a deck with it. It's performing on a flat stage. No, you're bringing the deck with you. You have a deck that travels, automated or not.

[43:54] Billy Hipkins: So, yeah, you have people all over the place, in the wings, in the stairwell, on the stairs. Will you not be lying on the stairs that come right off the stage door in the rain with the mud on the shoes? And there you're sitting. Would you please not do that? So, it's a lot.

[44:11] Billy Hipkins: Oh my God. It's a lot. And then we do, and then when the show starts, my track starts, and that's when I just, I do this, I do that, I do that, I do that, and I follow my guys around and do whatever changes I'm doing through the end of the show.

[44:24] Sean W Chandler: Tell the audience what a track is.

[44:26] Billy Hipkins: Oh, sure. Well, the track is just, okay, top of the show, we're out of time, top of the show. Now, Brandon, you're out of it. Brandon, you're out of it. This was our third show together. Tony winner.

[44:35] Sean W Chandler: Tony winner?

[44:36] Billy Hipkins: Yes. He might be in his curtain stage, but I'm in mine. He is one of my favorite actors ever. He's the sweetest human. We met on American in Paris. I took over the leading man.

[44:49] Billy Hipkins: Flash forward, I was asked to do Leopold Shaw, the Tom Stoppard play, before I knew he was doing it. And it was a supervisor I'd not worked with before. We'd always be bouncing back and forth, like, are you afraid? No, I'm not. Do you need help? No, I do not. Finally this comes up, the timing is right, I've got nothing, and I'm like, I do musicals, not plays. It's a play with actor-actors. There's no sequence. There's not one tap shoe. I couldn't do that, please. And it's about what? The Holocaust? Oh, great. It's a huge play. I'm just jumping forward. I mean, I couldn't wait. So I get it. Then I find out Brandon's doing it. Oh, I tell the supervisor, listen, your show, but I know him, I know how to get his ass on stage.

He's back in America in Paris. You couldn't make him go near his dressing room before five minutes to places. He was the top of the show, alone, center stage. Brandon, I left you clothes in that dressing room on the fourth floor. Would you care to go visit them and consider putting them on? It's almost places. You start the show. Flash forward, boy, has he grown up. I mean, it was a sweetheart drama. He was like, oh, look, a butterfly. He's running down the hallway. Leopoldstein, I can get him on stage. Great. She puts me with him. We start. We go to the studio to watch them do a run-through, because if you're lucky, you're in the theater before the cast joins you. Here are all the clothes, here are all the understudy clothes.

We have to label this. We have to put pit pads in that. We have to fix this. We have to put it in the dressing room. That's going to go here. You're acclimating before the cast arrives, because once they get there, there's not going to be a second for that. If you're lucky, they're in the studio, and you might be invited to go watch a rehearsal, not in dress, but a rehearsal of the show before, because once you're in the theater, you will not see a run-through. You'll be in the way. You can't go out front and sit down and watch it. You're doing what you're doing. So we got to watch a run-through, and that's when I, oh God, the show's devastating. And I knew instantly, because Brandon's part was so gut-wrenching and difficult, the thought of doing it eight times a week was unfathomable.

And I knew instantly, oh, that's why I'm here. I have to keep Brandon alive for a year. I have to keep him buoyant, because I know him. It's about the offstage moments, the buoyancy offstage, because this show will drag us all down and choke us to death. It's too heavy.

[47:25] Sean W Chandler: It's very heavy, yeah. Very, very heavy.

[47:27] Billy Hipkins: And with that laser focus, it was a great year. It was one of the best, I think it was the best job I've ever worked, honestly, because we were all so dedicated to what it was, but so there to keep each other alive and happy and buoyant throughout.

[47:44] Sean W Chandler: That's good. If I may say, because now that we're talking about Brandon Uranowitz, my favorite of his roles was in, do you remember the show The Prince of Broadway?

[47:57] Billy Hipkins: Yes.

[47:58] Sean W Chandler: Okay. He was in that, and he did, it was like a, I'm going to call it a review show, if you will, of all of how princes work, and he was in a scene that they pulled out of Kiss of the Spider Woman, the musical, and I was, I remember thinking, okay, they need to, we need to build a production of this musical around this man. He is outstanding, and then also what impresses me even more is that he played a very, very believable straight man. You know, right around that time, because that character in Spider Woman is gay, and then all of a sudden he flips over and plays this very believable straight man in falsettos.

[48:43] Billy Hipkins: Sure.

[48:44] Sean W Chandler: Which I was like, oh my God, this guy pretty much, he's…

[48:50] Billy Hipkins: Here's the falsetto story.

[48:52] Sean W Chandler: Oh, I kind of thought, I thought there was either going to be a Prince of Broadway or a falsetto story. We were doing America in Paris, and he got the audition for falsettos. He had wanted to play Mendel forever, dream role, dream role, dream role. He goes in, they see him, they love him, and they come back and say, you're too young. And he's heartbroken. Flash forward three months, four months, they want to see you again. I am four months older than I was last time they saw me. But at that point, Stephanie J. Block is involved, and I've worked with her on Pirate Queen. And I said, oh, you and her are going to get along. And sure enough, they get together, and they audition together, and it is obvious they're the two people to do this. So it happens.

[49:43] Billy Hipkins: Oh, yeah, and she is…

[49:44] Sean W Chandler: Oh, she's just a gem. I've met her. She's just a gem. A friend of ours worked with her at Disneyland. She worked, I want to say, like in parade or shows. She worked in the entertainment element of it, and our friend Curtis knew her and got us backstage at the Cher show, and she was super nice. Not fake, cool, just like, hey.

[50:07] Billy Hipkins: Yeah, she's awesome.

[50:13] Sean W Chandler: So back to On Track.

[50:14] Billy Hipkins: On Track. So after Leopold shot, Brandon, and when the Tony's came up, I knew the focus I have to have with him to keep him through this, because that award season is brutal.

[50:27] Sean W Chandler: Oh, yeah.

[50:28] Billy Hipkins: It's a thrill. I am exhausted, and everyone is staring at me to get over the finish line. I just want to do my eight shows a week, which are tough enough. It is for everyone. It is brutal.

[50:39] Sean W Chandler: I bet.

[50:40] Billy Hipkins: So we owe it so much. So when he won, yeah, he thanked me in his speech. I was floored. Flash forward, that night, he said, oh, my God, that night, we were at Haswell Greens having a party. They were at the Uptown Palace where they did the show that year. We're waiting for all of them to get down to us at the party. His wing person and I, Mark and I are like, we're going out on the sidewalk because it's getting late, and I want to go home. We're going to find his car first and get a hug out of him before we go home. So we're standing on the sidewalk, and as his car pulls up down the block, I am running toward Brandon as he is running toward me with a Tony in his hand. And we hit each other first. And then a pile of people is all around us.

[51:23] Sean W Chandler: Oh, how cute.

[51:25] Billy Hipkins: It was so incredible. And that's when he said, you're with me from now on. You're with me. You're with me. And I was like, of course. I'd love to. So flash forward, I was doing Operation Mittsmeet, and he was like, we're at Thompson Moving. You're coming with me. You're coming. I said, great. Flash forward to when are we starting? Like, okay, okay. So that's how that all happened. So I had him, and I had Colin Donnell playing Father, and I had Rod Cyrus playing Houdini. Those were my guys. So what was the point of all this? So that was my track with those guys. I had you explain a track.

[51:56] Sean W Chandler: Okay, yeah, yeah.

[51:58] Billy Hipkins: So my track was tracking all three of those guys and their changes. And mostly when it comes to principal guys, too, it's water bottles. Because there's a lot of water bottles.

[52:06] Sean W Chandler: Oh my God.

[52:07] Billy Hipkins: I mean, three guys and three water bottles. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. That showed not a lot of changes of clothes, as opposed to just coat on, coat off. Here's your hat. Take your hat. Here's your water. Here's your water. Here's your water. But also, when you're store dressing, you are also going to – it depends on the person. Are you going to go out and pick up food for them? Brandon will not let me do things like that. But I could. I think there was one damn day during award season where he was so tired. He was like, would you mind? I was like, I've said I'd do this for you. Would you please just take a nap? Retrieving mail or sending mail if you need to. You and your store will work those things out.

But also, receiving guests after the show is definitely going to be part of it. To, like, people on the guest list, I have these people. I'll meet them in my room, or I'd rather meet them outside, or I'd rather meet them here. That's just – yeah.

[53:05] Billy Hipkins: Yeah. And she was like, yeah, I'm her dresser. It's interesting. I thought maybe it was just, like, whoever was available.

[53:13] Sean W Chandler: Oh, no, no, no. If you're dressing principal people, that's going to be part of your life, is handling guests and stuff.

[53:21] Sean W Chandler: Right. Because when we went backstage to meet Stephanie J. Block, it was a wardrobe person who was giving us the tour.

[53:21] Billy Hipkins: So that's my track. And then at the end of the night is – we don't restore things to where they started the day. That's also part of that hour before. If it ends in the stage where I quick-change the booth, but it starts the show in the dressing room, you're going to do the flip-flop when you come in the next day. And the same with the set. The Act 2 set is left on the deck when the lights go out, and when the crew comes in, they're going to get the Act 2 set out of the way, maybe flown up into the flies, and the Act 1 set down and into position. Flip-flop is the top of the day. But the end of the day is just get the laundry out of the dressing rooms, whatever is getting laundered. And within that, it's not just the underwear.

It's these shirts play two performances, and then we wash them. These shirts go only one performance, and we wash them. These guys go four shows, and then we flip them. So you have two sets of all those shirts, too. Everything like that, you have at least two of every shirt. And, you know, so much that goes on with that. And this is a fun thing most people don't know, is when you have garments, any garment, that you're not going to wash on the daily, but it gets any kind of perspiration in it, like a jacket, like a vest, like a coat. We use cheap vodka in a spray bottle and spray it down with a burnt-over fan because the sweat will cause odor from the bacteria, and vodka being alcohol will kill the bacteria, and because it evaporates quickly being alcohol, it'll take the perspiration with it. So cheap vodka in a spray bottle. That's our helpful wardrobe trick.

[54:43] Billy Hipkins: Here's the other one people don't all know. I love this one. And every actor knows this. If you bleed on something, your blood on a garment, your saliva will dissolve your blood. Don't spit on other people's things. It won't help. But the enzymes in your saliva will dissolve your blood. So actors know. I just dinged myself on stage. I got a little bit of it on my pants. All right, spit on it before I send it to wardrobe. Oh my God. It is a glamorous life I live in. It is blood and shoes and things. Oh, it never ends. It's so glamorous.

[55:25] Sean W Chandler: I'm making a note of that.

[55:27] Billy Hipkins: Yeah. I'm just writing down saliva and blood.

[55:30] Sean W Chandler: Yes, it's so glamorous. I mean, your handling's funny. I have seen people, oh, God, literally sorting laundry at the end of the day wearing rubber gloves. Or worse, I have seen someone take barbecue tongs to sort laundry out of a... God forbid you ever have a child that had to change a diaper. God forbid someone in your life is at the end of their life and you have to help them in those stages of the end. Which is not pretty.

[56:00] Billy Hipkins: Which is not. Of course not. It is fucking sweat. Just put it in the washing machine and wash your damn hands, for God's sake. Oh, I can't with these people. I carry hand sanitizer in my apron. Every dresser's got an apron on too with, you know, water bottle pockets and I've got neosporin and Band-Aids and I've got a little this and I've got a flashlight. I've got my, you know, you're loaded for bear with everything you need. You might have a breakthrough in principles. You might have a breath spray. You might have a mouth spray. You might have arcolas and you might have a lucky rabbit's foot. You might have, you know, name it. I'm carrying all of it with me, all mine.

[56:33] Sean W Chandler: I hope you'll say yes to this but I have, like, so many more questions for you but just the tangents that we're taking are so informative. But I'm hoping that you'll come back for, like, a part two of your interview.

[56:49] Billy Hipkins: Oh, you have to.

[56:50] Sean W Chandler: Okay, cool, groovy. Because I... We do have to wrap up soon but I have...

[56:58] Billy Hipkins: Well, I am going to ask you about the stuff that's coming up but I have a question. One of my favorite things to watch like on YouTube is costume quick changes.

[57:09] Sean W Chandler: I knew you were going to say that, yeah.

[57:10] Billy Hipkins: Oh my god, it's so fascinating to me. I think I've told you this but I'm one of those people who just wants to go back and then climb and just sit Indian style on top of a giant speaker and watch it all go down. Or, in the case of, like, Ragtime go down into the basement and just sit there. I promise I will just sit on a stool with my hands folded and I won't say anything. I'm just watching what's happening.

[57:32] Sean W Chandler: You'll see a lot of idiocy.

[57:33] Billy Hipkins: I know. You know that? A lot of idiocy. That's, you know, and as a writer I don't usually see a lot of that. They're usually like... Once you get into the rehearsal room they're like, go sit at that table and shut up. If we have a question we'll ask you. And then you're like, well, I've been thinking about this damn thing for the last five years. So, anyways.

[57:56] Sean W Chandler: You tell me what your favorite quick change is. It doesn't have to be one of yours. It can be somebody else. And I'll tell you what mine is.

[58:03] Billy Hipkins: Okay, okay. You might have to start with yours because I have to think on this first.

[58:07] Sean W Chandler: Okay, I will, I will. Okay. Mine is a very easy quick change. And I was, like, kind of baffled by it at first because it happens really, really fast. It's in the show Heathers, the musical. You know what I'm talking about?

[58:22] Billy Hipkins: Yes.

[58:24] Sean W Chandler: It's Veronica's first quick change when she goes from being Veronica the... I want to say the dumpy even though that's mean to say, but to Veronica the Heather. And she... I mean, you can watch it on YouTube. They have it on theater websites. Basically, she goes and she actually comes out and she's wearing this, like, long granola dress and a scarf and, like, kind of holding books and stuff. And then when they send her back for the quick change, you can see... It's just so easy when you think about it. She basically takes off the scarf. Somebody's behind her, undoes the dress. It drops down. She's got the schoolgirl outfit on underneath, which is what all the Heathers wear. The shirt is... I mean, she's wearing, like, an undershirt, but the shirt is, like, sort of... It's either on her or it's draped down around her skirt.

She puts it on, and then she puts a headband on. She's wearing socks, and socks that are pushed down that somebody goes down and pulls up, so she's wearing the blouse. I was like, okay. Why was I sitting there going, oh, my God. She's got to go back there and put all that back on. So that's... Also, I fucking love that show. It's one of my favorite shows. I saw the original production of it. So I...

[59:44] Billy Hipkins: It's been a fascinating journey for me in the theater world, starting from my early days as a performer and gradually transitioning into writing my own solo plays. The experience of being both a playwright and a performer has given me a unique perspective on the storytelling process.

[1:00:14] Billy Hipkins: I often find that the characters I create are reflections of my own experiences and emotions. It's a deeply personal process, and I think that authenticity resonates with audiences. When I step on stage, I’m not just performing; I’m sharing a part of myself.

[1:00:44] Billy Hipkins: The wardrobe aspect of my career has also been incredibly rewarding. Working behind the scenes, ensuring that costumes not only look good but also serve the narrative, has taught me a lot about the importance of visual storytelling in theater.

[1:01:14] Billy Hipkins: I’ve had the privilege of collaborating with some amazing designers and directors who have pushed me to think outside the box. Each production is a learning experience, and I cherish the relationships I’ve built along the way.

[1:01:44] Billy Hipkins: One of the most memorable projects I worked on was a solo piece that I wrote and performed. It was a challenge to convey such a complex story with just one person on stage, but it was also liberating. I learned how to engage the audience in a way that felt intimate and direct.

[1:02:14] Billy Hipkins: The feedback I received from that performance was overwhelming. People connected with the themes of vulnerability and resilience, which are universal experiences. It reminded me why I love theater so much; it has the power to bring people together.

[1:02:24] Billy Hipkins: I also enjoy the technical side of theater, especially when it comes to costume changes. The timing and precision required to execute quick changes can be exhilarating. It’s like a dance, and I love the adrenaline rush that comes with it.

[1:02:34] Billy Hipkins: My background in wardrobe has given me a deeper appreciation for the entire production process. Every element, from lighting to sound, plays a crucial role in bringing a story to life. I think that’s what makes theater so magical.

[1:02:44] Billy Hipkins: I’ve been fortunate to work on a variety of productions, from large-scale musicals to small, intimate plays. Each experience has shaped my understanding of what it means to be a theater artist.

[1:02:54] Billy Hipkins: I believe that every artist has a unique voice, and it’s important to find and nurture that voice. For me, writing and performing are intertwined, and I can’t imagine one without the other.

[1:03:04] Billy Hipkins: As I continue to create, I’m excited to explore new themes and stories. There’s so much to discover in the world of theater, and I feel like I’m just getting started.

[1:03:14] Billy Hipkins: I hope to inspire others to share their stories too. Theater is a collaborative art form, and I believe that everyone has something valuable to contribute.

[1:03:24] Billy Hipkins: Looking ahead, I’m working on a new solo piece that delves into the complexities of identity and belonging. It’s a topic that resonates with many, and I’m eager to see how it evolves.

[1:03:34] Billy Hipkins: The process of writing can be daunting, but it’s also incredibly rewarding. I often find that the act of putting pen to paper helps me clarify my thoughts and feelings.

[1:03:44] Billy Hipkins: I’m grateful for the support of my peers and mentors who have encouraged me to take risks in my work. Their belief in me has been a driving force in my career.

[1:03:54] Billy Hipkins: Ultimately, I want my work to spark conversations and provoke thought. Theater has the power to challenge perspectives, and I’m committed to using my platform to do just that.

[1:04:04] Billy Hipkins: I think it’s important for artists to remain true to themselves and their vision. Authenticity is key, and I strive to bring that into every project I undertake.

[1:04:14] Billy Hipkins: As I reflect on my journey, I’m filled with gratitude for the experiences I’ve had and the people I’ve met along the way. Each moment has contributed to my growth as an artist.

[1:04:24] Billy Hipkins: I look forward to what the future holds and am excited to continue sharing my passion for theater with audiences everywhere.

[1:04:34] Billy Hipkins: Thank you for having me on the show today. It’s been a pleasure to share my story and discuss the importance of theater in our lives.

[1:04:44] Billy Hipkins: I hope to see you all at the theater soon, supporting the incredible artists who bring these stories to life.