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[0:01] Joe Iconis: Hey new friends, I'm Joe Iconis. And I'm Jennifer Ashley Tepper. Today we're going to be talking about a very special song called "64," which is inspired by a street in New York City, namely 64th Street. It's a time-traveling song and it's sung by the incredible Alan H. Green and George Salazar and Jose Restrepo and we've got a lot to say about it. Hopefully, you'll enjoy a Joe Iconis trio because that's a rarity.

[0:33] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, it's like my feud for Ken Horan. It's different.

[0:37] Joe Iconis: Yeah.

[0:49] Joe Iconis: So "64" is in a special genre of songs just like the genre of songs that are people's names, but it's a number. Just a number.

[0:56] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Just like 52.

[0:58] Joe Iconis: Yeah, and "64" refers to the street, 64th Street in Manhattan, New York City, Earth. I love 64th Street. I love all the streets in Manhattan. As a theater historian, this is like such a special song because you dive into some theater history here.

[1:11] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: I do, yeah. The song is one that I wrote for an event that I think Lonnie Price organized it, right? And it was songs about Lincoln Center. It was performed at that atrium area where TKTS used to have a location at Lincoln Center there. And then Lonnie Price was putting together this song, Cycling Night. And so I wrote this tune and I don't even remember how I started this song.

[1:51] Joe Iconis: Like it was one of those songs that I felt like I just like fell into a rabbit hole. And I sort of decided what I wanted to write when I was like in the song. You know, it wasn't a song that I kind of mapped out, which is something that I do. Usually this one was like I had to get into it and then I realized what the song was about. And then I just kept getting myself like deeper and deeper into it. And I felt like I was like working stuff out as I was writing it.

[2:21] Joe Iconis: But the impetus for the song was this idea, this image of Raul Julia walking to a rehearsal like on the Lincoln Center campus in the 70s. And I love Lincoln Center. It's like, you know, if I had to give a list of my favorite places in New York City, it would definitely be very close to the top. And I have always, you know, I've always loved the area. I love the idea of it. Aesthetically, I like how it looks. It really makes me think about, you know, the 70s and a different time in New York.

[3:12] Joe Iconis: And I realized that Lincoln Center, it just it ignites this nostalgia in me. And so I started writing the song sort of tapping into that, this idea of this place, this place igniting this nostalgia in me for a time that I was not alive for. This nostalgia for this, you know, like the old days. And this is, you know, this is this magical place. And it makes me think like, oh, it was, you know, even more magical back then. Because then I start to think when I think about, you know, Raul Julia, you know, just how cool this like actor's actor, you know, this guy going to do these shows in Lincoln Center and and these legendary productions.

[3:58] Joe Iconis: And the diner from Annie Hall on the corner where P.J. Clark's is. And it just takes me back to another time. And so then as I started writing that, then I was like, oh, you know, maybe this song is about how things aren't as good now as they used to be. Then the deeper I got into that, the more, you know, I got interested in the idea of Lincoln Center being built in the 60s and how it, you know, decimated San Juan Hill, decimated the neighborhood that was that was there. And this idea of like this place that has nothing but sort of positive connotations to me, this place that feels so magical and also conjures up this nostalgia for for an era that I wasn't there for means something so different to to a great many people.

[5:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. And this idea of like if I was if I actually was my age now in the 70s, when Raul Julia was heading to rehearsal in the fall, how would I feel about this this area? Would I, you know, would I would I feel like, oh, this is a great place where I can go and do my art or would I feel conflicted about it? And how did Raul Julia feel about it? And so that sort of what started the kind of like Russian nesting doll.

[5:26] Joe Iconis: It is. It's a matryoshka. Yeah. That was that was it is what it's called. Yeah. Say it again. Matryoshka. Matryoshka. I am Russian. I don't know if I'm saying it right, but that is what it's called.

[5:38] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: It makes me think so much about when I was writing the marquee theater chapter of my Untold Stories of Broadway books, I really started getting perspective similar to "64" on, you know, for people of a certain generation, the marquee theater is like, how dare they have knocked down those five Broadway houses to build the marquee? And like I, you know, that theater is not my favorite. And like, you know how evil that we put this hotel up where all these theaters used to be. And for people of another generation, it's like, oh my God, the marquee where I saw Thoroughly Modern Millie. And like you talk to people of a younger generation and like they don't have any memory of, you know, a negative connotation of that building to them. It's like, oh my God, I saw Peter Pan there.

[6:14] Joe Iconis: So it is something that in New York, I think, is actually not explored that much of there's a sort of black and white version of like older stuff was better, but there's not a black and white stuff of like, oh, that older thing that was better also knocked down something that another generation cared about. And that's just what the city does. I mean, it's like this song goes deeper and deeper into that rabbit hole.

[6:38] Joe Iconis: Yeah, yeah. And the you know, the and it is it's it's the whole idea of it is kind of it's messy. And it's and it's I mean, as the song says, nostalgia is is so complex. Like if you think about it. But yeah, I mean, it's like that, especially with theaters, but with anything in New York City, like anything that's here, knock down something else. And I always just think of like, you could just keep you could keep going back and back and back and back and back until you get to, you know, one angry cockroach. That's like, you know, they they knock down my nest. Yeah, stupid Empire State. Like, there's always going to be some creature that you have displaced in order to make something else. And so, yeah, so the song, the song is, is that and I the at the end of the song, you know, it repeats this kind of play out of the song is real, real long.

And, and it's it's it's long, because in my in my mind, I think the song could just play forever. And it would and you could keep hopping, hopping back, you know, obviously, the last person we hear from during the the play out is Jose Ferrer, you know, talking about the hippodrome and, and all of that. But it's a you could keep just like back, back, back, back, back, and, you know, never ending. Yeah, you get to dinosaurs or something.

[7:55] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Mad props to you for the references here, because I think the first time I heard like Jose Ferrer and hippodrome and Vanderbilt and like their references are so correct. And so, you know, things that you might have to look up and then you're like, Oh, yeah, this is exactly what this person would have been singing about. And I mean, I just freaked out when you wrote that.

[8:14] Joe Iconis: I also I don't know if we've ever talked about this. But crazily enough, the place where this was first performed, the atrium at Lincoln Center that I was talking about, there was a that's on the footprint of a Broadway theater, the Harkness, that is where like the Robert Bradbury was originally there. And it was like a very short lived Broadway theater. I think it was knocked down in either I think the late 70s. But that's so crazy.

[8:36] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, yeah.

[8:37] Joe Iconis: Harkness was there.

[8:38] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Like sort of on that footprint.

[8:39] Joe Iconis: Yeah, see, and my my song was born there, where the Harkness died. This also reminds me of when our favorite bar across from 54 Below Characters was like getting the axe during the pandemic. And I was like going down the 64 style rabbit hole about it. And I was like, Oh, this was once a farm called Cosines Farm in the 1700s.

[8:56] Joe Iconis: They must have been real mad when it was made into, you know, it's New York City, like this is such a New York City song. It also, you know, I think this song obviously was written long before the Tony Kushner version of the West Side Story movie, but specifically, like, Lincoln Center being created on top of this community that was decimated is also something that's depicted there, which is so interesting because I feel like a reference point that a lot of people now have for it is, like, West Side Story. Like, that's what that area used to be like. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's very, very wild. And, you know, the other thing that the song, I think, touches on is this idea of, you know, everyone is always talking about how New York is dead, how New York is dead, and also, like, the theater.

Everyone's always talking about, myself included, you know, oh, it used to be so much better, used to be so much better. And I, something that always thrills me is reading that sentence, even. The theater used to be better for, you know, in hundreds of years of written word. Like, it's just something that people have always, always, always said in the golden age of whatever. It used to be better. I totally remember the first time I read, like, Richard Rogers telling a story from when he was in his 20s, and people were saying that to him. I was like, yeah, it's just a great circle. Yeah, always. It's a strange loop. Always. I also, this song, I think, gives a fresh perspective to, like, similarly, you know, there's someone that's going to be nostalgic about things that are happening now that to us are just like, oh, yeah, I'm walking to rehearsal in the fall.

And at some point, someone is going to look back on that and be like, oh, the days when, like, you know, they were walking from open jar studios where we're recording right now. Like, it's, we're living it. And so, like, even the times when you don't feel like, oh, the show I'm working on is not my favorite experience for X, Y, Z reason, or, like, this was a bad day of rehearsal, or whatever it is, there, you know, we don't know if Raul Julia was, like, you know, having food poisoning when he was walking. So, it's like, the bad stuff sometimes gets erased from history, and you kind of remember the good stuff, and someone will be doing that about our generation.

[11:00] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, yeah. It's, to me, also, when I was writing it, I wanted to write the, not the rebuttal, but just the different perspective on the look around, look around, how lucky we are to be alive right now. You know, it's the, when they both sing in the song, you know, it must have been the only good time to be alive in the city at all. It's like, that's the opposite of the idea of, like, you know, of the Schuyler sisters, you know, being like, this is it, you know, and it's like, because it is, it's like, it's looking back. It's not, it's not, not really appreciating what is around you, or being honest about what is around you. It's just, you know, the sense of, like, oh, it used to be, used to be so much better. And I do just have to say, the performance, performances of Alan H Green, and George Salazar, and Jose Restrepo, like, come on.

[11:53] Joe Iconis: Oh my god. Incredible. This, I have to say, I'm not, like, I don't have a favorite song on the album. I really do feel like they're all special, different reasons. But this was the first song that I rushed to, like, play again. And it might also be because Alan's performed so much of your work before, but this was a new song for Alan on the album. So it wasn't like, oh, we've heard Alan do this million times in concert. And I just, him recording it was so incredible. And I just, like, was dying to hear him sing it again. And, you know, George and Jose. I mean, all of them. And it's the, you know, with Alan, something that's so special is that it's just so, his vocal performance, in addition to being very thrilling vocally, it's thrilling because it's so genuine and so earnest, you know?

And it's like, he's singing about this nostalgia as if, you know, it was like an ex-lover, you know? It's like, there's real romance in the way that he's singing. And I think he, you know, he does that with his commitment and his, you know, literal vocal performance in a way that it elevates and informs the words. It's like something that words themselves could never do, you know? His absolute passion about this is something that is really incredible. And again, something like, because he's so wonderful, he just got, you know, there was never, like, how should I sing this? What should I be doing? He was just like, oh, this is what this is. And it's like, yes, that's exactly what it is. This isn't something, you know, you're not supposed to be like, you know.

[13:31] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Imitating him.

[13:31] Joe Iconis: Imitating him. Yeah, like being like a brainiac. And then, you know, George doing, you know, playing Raul Julia in the song, we talked about if he should do, like, straight up impression or, like, what should he do? And so he's sort of doing a light Raul Julia, you know, inflection or something. But also, like, you know, attacking it with the same passion and romance. And it's, like, so exciting. And I think when you hear the two of them, you know, the sort of, like, present in quotation mark fingers and past in quotation mark fingers, you know, go at it together, it sounds like a love song. You know, it sounds like a sort of creamy 70s love song. And yeah, I'm just so happy with it. And then Jose Restrepo, you know, who recorded, Jose Restrepo, he lives in LA.

And so he was sort of the last piece of the puzzle. And yeah, like, the three of them together, it's just really, really, really proud of it. And I also have to say, I love the arrangement of the song so much. Charlie Rosen, his string arrangement is just so gorgeous and so, you know, dangerously nostalgic. And that's, you know, part of it, where it's like, I wanted it to sound like, you know, like 70s radio. And then I wanted it to feel sumptuous and, you know, and feel, like, warm and feel like, oh, you know, this is nothing but good, this looking back and sort of living in the past. The musicians really do kill it on this track.

[15:13] Joe Iconis: Oh my gosh, yeah. It's ridiculous. And this was, we did all the strings in one day and all the horns in one day. And for this tune, this was the last one. And this was one where we didn't know if we wanted strings on it. And there was like, you know, it was less than 10 minutes left in the session. And we were just like, there's not gonna be any time to rehearse this. And Charlie was like, let's just give it to them. And whatever they can do, they'll do. And then maybe we'll use like a part or two. And the string players got the charts and they just played it down perfectly one time. Yeah. And it's, I mean, and the song is, you know, seven minutes long. That's the problem with my song. It's like, when you have 10 minutes, like, you can just go through it and that's all you can do.

And then it was perfect. And that's the take that's on the thing. And it was the last little thing that we recorded. And yeah, I just love it so much. And Ian Keggy just mixed it so expertly. And it turned out great.

[16:14] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. I feel like this is a question I should just remember to ask you once you've had like a couple drinks. And you're not gonna answer it right now. But is there any other street that you feel like is next on your list of like, you've done 52 and 64?

[16:23] Joe Iconis: Yeah, I've got a couple. I got a couple in my mind. I'm gonna trick you into answering that for me some other time. But stay tuned. I really do. I really do in the back of my mind have this, you know, fantasy of writing a song for every street in the theater district. I think that's the ultimate. It's the ultimate goal. Street cycle. I mean, that's not what it would be called. But it's like, you know, the play cycles. Yeah, I mean, I feel like 42 has sort of been written about obliquely and multiple songs for years. But yeah, we'll see. I can do it. I can do it again. Thank God. 6464.

[17:04] Joe Iconis: Hey, thanks so much for listening or watching to my podcast. Do me a favor and go to wherever you just listen to or watch this thing and subscribe or like or give us a great rating or review and then head to bpn.fm slash album to find out even more information about this podcast. More ways to watch more ways to listen and check out my album album. Thanks so much for hanging out. Album podcast is executive produced by Liz Armstrong, produced by Dori Berenstain, Alan Seals, Kim Garris and the rest of the team at the Broadway Podcast Network. Be sure to visit bpn.fm slash album for both audio and video versions of this podcast and to listen to album.