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[0:00] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Hi, my odd squad. It's me, Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo, your host of Odd Woman Out, a podcast where we talk to women artists about what it is like to be a woman in the entertainment industry, the struggles we face, how to overcome our insecurities, how to stand in our power. And we have so much fun while we have these conversations and we laugh a lot. So thank you for tuning in. I promise this episode you're going to listen to is going to be so iconic. So don't forget to like, subscribe and follow. Call up a friend, tell them about this really cool podcast you listen to called Odd Woman Out. And also call up a woman in your life and remind her how absolutely fierce she is. I love you, my odd squad. Hi, Jackie Hoffman. Welcome to Odd Woman Out.

[0:47] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, are we on? Yes. Action. Is that okay? I just went right into it.

[0:52] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: You slipped right in.

[0:56] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, because I know you're hot. We got to get you out of here.

[0:56] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, I'm really busy. You're really hot. You're hot in temperature and hot on the town. You've got places to go and people to see. Welcome to Odd Woman Out. I'm so happy to have you here.

[1:07] Jackie Hoffman: Are you really? I'm saying that to be polite.

[1:09] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: You've been a dream guest of mine for a while.

[1:14] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, because I almost have like the whole original cast of Hairspray on the show now. You, Marissa, Carrie, Shoshana.

[1:20] Jackie Hoffman: Shoshana used to understudy me. Can you imagine? Look at her career and look at mine.

[1:25] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Hey, Emmy nominee.

[1:30] Jackie Hoffman: What do you mean? Yeah, like grits or two.

[1:30] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yes. Used to understudy me. Wow, how fun. So we have so much to talk about. You have an amazing career that we need to touch on, but I want to talk about being the odd woman out and I want to know about a time in your life or in the entertainment industry when you felt like the odd woman out.

[1:45] Jackie Hoffman: I guess since childhood when I think I was teased mercilessly from early childhood, like as soon as school started and as soon as there were other people and I hate the term othered, but that's what I was, whether it was cross-eyed or big ass or getting tits really early or always being kicked out of class because I was a class clown and I would stand in the hallway and the rabbi principal was again and again in the hallway, Ms. Hoffman, you know, always called into the office. So I was odd woman out from really early on.

[2:26] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: And what made you want to pursue a life as an artist?

[2:33] Jackie Hoffman: I think when I got into high school and joined the junior players theater company, I felt the least othered in it, you know, and that was the least amount of abuse and it was a way I could kind of claim some respectability, you know, well, she's fat and ugly and weird, but she's funny. So we'll let it pass.

[2:51] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: When you were growing up and you found your way in the theater, was there a woman that you looked up to that inspired you?

[2:58] Jackie Hoffman: Wow. I guess Carol Burnett was the first because I used to watch her as a kid growing up and you know, and she wasn't textbook definition of pretty.

[3:02] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah.

[3:10] Jackie Hoffman: And also so hysterical. When you first started working in the entertainment industry, whether that was on Broadway or your time in Chicago, was there a situation of like a woman supporting woman type of thing where someone like showed you the ropes and showed you what to do and was supportive of you?

[3:20] Jackie Hoffman: I don't know if one took a leadership position, but every woman I've worked with has been really, you know, supportive.

[3:36] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah. Is there one that like sticks out?

[3:42] Jackie Hoffman: There should be, shouldn't there? Yeah, but it's okay if there's not. They all just bleed in with each other. Amy Sedaris is really helpful.

[3:49] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, that's an iconic one.

[3:49] Jackie Hoffman: And my friend Jodi Lennon, who is a producer on Have I Got News For You, you know, she was also really helpful.

[4:03] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, that's amazing. Shout out to them. I love when women are supporting other women. So your Broadway debut was in Hairspray. I had just said that, like I'm getting through that whole original Broadway cast, but that came years after you were in Steppenwolf.

[4:13] Jackie Hoffman: I wasn't in Steppenwolf. I'm not that good an actor.

[4:18] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: In Chicago, where were you?

[4:22] Jackie Hoffman: Second City.

[4:22] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Second City, that's what I, in Second City. Save it for Laurie Metcalf.

[4:28] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, yeah. After 10 years in Second City, then you made your book.

[4:32] Jackie Hoffman: Eight. The internet has been lying to me. Who did the research, Alan?

[4:38] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, Alan did the research. I have Second City written, I just wasn't looking. I believe you. You're making me nervous. But thanks for confusing me for a Steppenwolf person. I would buy it, and I did. So Hairspray came after eight years in Second City.

[4:43] Jackie Hoffman: Correct. Was there a favorite memory from that time?

[4:52] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, God. From Hairspray? I mean, the whole experience. There's a lot, but I think my last night when Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman came on stage and gave me this huge tribute. I used to go off and improvise at the end of the show, which could either be incredibly traumatic and deadly or triumphant. So the last show, I went on like some five-minute monologue, and then Mark and Scott came on stage, and they gave me an Hermes shawl in the dressing room.

[5:30] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Okay.

[5:30] Jackie Hoffman: And my late mother approached Mark Shaman and said, will you ask her back?

[5:35] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: And what did he say?

[5:40] Jackie Hoffman: Of course, if she wants to come back, she can come back.

[5:40] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Did you ever go back?

[5:43] Jackie Hoffman: No.

[5:43] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: It ran for... How much longer did the show run after you left?

[5:47] Jackie Hoffman: I think I left in... Was it 03 or 04? I think I left in 04, and it ran till 05. It should have run longer.

[5:54] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, it definitely should have. Did you know it was going to be such a hit and such a monumental staple in the Broadway history while you were doing it?

[6:02] Jackie Hoffman: Nobody did. Once we opened, we did.

[6:06] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah. It's such a fun show to be in.

[6:09] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah.

[6:13] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Who was your favorite cast member in the show?

[6:13] Jackie Hoffman: Well, I'll say Carrie. I loved them all. I loved Corey Reynolds and Laura and Marissa.

[6:21] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah. Loved them all.

[6:23] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: So you were in Hairspray. You were in a lot of other theatrical shows. What's been your favorite?

[6:28] Jackie Hoffman: At Steppenwolf.

[6:29] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: At Steppenwolf with Laurie Metcalf for 10 years. What's been your favorite on-stage role? Not TV, not film, but your favorite role on stage?

[6:35] Jackie Hoffman: I loved playing Madam Dillion on The Town. I did a Sideris play in 96 that I loved called One Woman True, which was freaking hilarious. So those two stick to the top of the memory. But I've been really lucky. I've done a lot of really cool shit.

[6:55] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Do you prefer straight plays or musicals?

[7:00] Jackie Hoffman: I haven't been cast in many straight plays. If I like the script, I like a straight play. But yeah, what's more fun than a musical?

[7:04] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: I know. And then that turned into you doing your own cabaret. Can you tell us a little bit about how you developed that?

[7:10] Jackie Hoffman: The first one was in 1998, directed by an amazing director from Chicago named Mick Napier. And it was a Don't Tell Mama, where everybody does their first show, and you get the lecture from Sydney. Your viewers may be too young to remember. But so that launched it, kind of. And then I started working with a great director, Michael Shirelli, and we're dear friends, and he directs all my stuff, and we collaborate. And it just became writing original music and working with great composers and giving them my twisted, sordid, filthy lyrics, and having them work magic at it. And they're kind of like mini twisted standup musicals.

[7:54] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, so fun. What's been your favorite cabaret that you've done so far? Is there a particular one that sticks out in your mind?

[8:02] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, God. No, they all stick out in my mind. I love them all.

[8:05] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: That's fun. It's so fun. So you were saying, I didn't go to Steppenwolf, save it for Laurie Metcalf, but you have had and continue to have such an amazing career.

[8:14] Jackie Hoffman: Thank you for thinking so. I never think so. So it's great to hear other people say that.

[8:19] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: That's why I do these things.

[8:20] Jackie Hoffman: Just to hear people gas you up.

[8:21] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, yeah. You have a great career. As long as it looks that way.

[8:24] Jackie Hoffman: How iconic and fierce and funny you are. We got to talk a little bit about when you played Mamacita in Ryan Murphy's Feud. What was that experience like? I heard you say in another podcast that you were like, I can't think about these people too much that I'm working with because it will like stress you out. So how did you navigate that? It's a huge show. And you were Emmy nominated for the role, by the way. I don't know if you remember that.

[8:49] Jackie Hoffman: No, I don't. But thank you for reminding.

[8:51] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: You're welcome. You're welcome. So how did you navigate, you know, booking that role and then being in the space with these people without feeling like an imposter? I'm not saying you should have. I'm just saying that because that's what you said. You just you had to keep cool. I mean, it's the same with like murders in the building. When I once sat in a room with Michael Cyril Creighton, we were sitting there with Meryl Streep and Steve and Marty. And I'm like, I'm among them. I'm among them. He said, you're doing very well. You're doing very well, you know.

[9:22] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah.

[9:23] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: And then Jessica turned out to be really cool. And I was like, you know, like the late Chris Farley used to do, you know, wow, when you did that, that was so cool. You know, I was I was kind of like that.

[9:36] Jackie Hoffman: She probably went to Steppenwolf.

[9:38] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Well, at least she taught there, I'm sure.

[9:40] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, I'm sure of it. So like we said, you got Emmy nominated for your role in that show. And literally, you went viral for the Emmys that year. And you screamed, mouth damn it, when you lost to who did Laura Linney? Who did you lose to?

[9:56] Jackie Hoffman: Who the hell? Laura Dern.

[9:58] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Laura Dern from fucking up everything.

[10:01] Jackie Hoffman: Big Little Lies, which fucking won everything. Everything.

[10:04] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Were you like planning to do that? Or was it just in the moment thing?

[10:08] Jackie Hoffman: I kind of was planning it. And I said, Ryan Murphy probably won't like this, but he's not going to listen to this. I asked him the night before the party, I said, if and when I lose and I scream and say, damn it, is that okay? And he just laughed. He's like, yeah, sure.

[10:26] Jackie Hoffman: You literally went viral for that.

[10:29] Jackie Hoffman: Apparently.

[10:30] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah. And then you tweeted here, Laura Dern had famous parents, forgive me for being from real people. And it really put you in a space in social media to get all this social media attention.

[10:45] Jackie Hoffman: To get haters.

[10:46] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: To get haters, but also to get people to see how funny you are.

[10:51] Jackie Hoffman: The people who got it.

[10:52] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Obviously, you were kidding.

[10:52] Jackie Hoffman: It was shocking the amount of people who didn't get it.

[10:54] Jackie Hoffman: People thought you were being serious.

[10:58] Jackie Hoffman: Morning shows, the next show, whatever George Stephanopoulos is on, and the other people were like, "No, are you kidding, Jackie? We don't know if you're kidding." And George Stephanopoulos, God bless me, was like, "This is like just a joke, like she's a comedian. People read the room." Well, they don't know. They don't know me. They don't know my brand. I came out of nowhere and just went psychotic, according to them. And then I said it was rigged because that's when Trump was running, you know, saying everything was rigged. What was your favorite memory from the Emmys? Oh, well, aside from your iconic moment, something happened to me mentally that was off. And you know, I have this probably will happen today where I just say everything I don't want to say.

And I went up to Jessica Lange, who was talking to Louis C.K., and they did an amazing show together, "Harris and Pete" or something, or um, and I just went up to them. Instead of saying that, you know, I just stood there when they were talking, and Louis C.K. looked at me uncomfortably, and Jessica sees me, and I said, "I wanted to win." And she said, "I know, and you should have won." And when I did a show about it, of course, I added, "Who are you?" That would have been amazing if she actually did that. You're like, "I just did this with you."

[12:21] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: That's amazing. Do you prefer doing TV over theater?

[12:29] Jackie Hoffman: Everybody asks this. Oh, fuck. Well, I guess I'm bad at my job. You're better than this. Um, no, it's fine. It's just, you know, like, um, you know, an actor, I want to fucking work. I can't—right? TV, there's nothing like the theater.

[12:42] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: You love the theater?

[12:47] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, I mean, I like all of it for different reasons, and I hate all of it for different reasons.

[12:53] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Right. What's the reasons you hate the theater?

[12:53] Jackie Hoffman: Sometimes sameness or what's happening lately with, uh, with a little wokeness around rehearsal spaces. And I guess what I hate about TV is getting up at five in the morning.

[13:10] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, that sucks. So you hate TV from the early mornings. But I do want to talk about "Only Murders in the Building." So iconic. I love it. For anybody who wants to hire me, love it all.

[13:20] Jackie Hoffman: She's available.

[13:26] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: She sure is. She's available. She's doing this for all my followers and all the exposure. Cheers to that. So "Only Murders," you've been on it for five seasons, and it just is getting better and better and better.

[13:33] Jackie Hoffman: Well, not this season. I'm not in it, so I haven't watched.

[13:38] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: It got better up until this—up until you were still in it. But I wonder why you're the only person in the cast without a chair.

[13:44] Jackie Hoffman: I heard this yesterday. Oh, without a cast chair? What the fuck? Anti-Semitism! That's fucked up. Have you brought this to anyone?

[13:50] Jackie Hoffman: I know they like do jokes with you, yeah, around the set. I haven't brought it to anybody major, you know, and my manager just goes, "Huh?" No, but you're like, "But actually, how come I don't have a chair?" I kind of revel in the wrongness of it, and no one listens to me.

[14:12] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, so they probably think I'm lucky to be there on a metal folding chair.

[14:18] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: They do not give you a metal folding chair? Is that true? Are you allowed to go to craft services or no? Are you not allowed to do that?

[14:29] Jackie Hoffman: Background.

[14:29] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Back—you're part of the background?

[14:29] Jackie Hoffman: No, I know. I've watched.

[14:38] Jackie Hoffman: So that might as well be. But that show is so good. Yes, brilliant.

[14:42] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: When you started on that show, did you know you were going to have as long of a life with it as you did?

[14:49] Jackie Hoffman: No, I've only, you know, my—it's usually been a guest star role. We are going to bring you back, and of course, I never do. So yeah, it's been a godsend. I'm thrilled and grateful for every second.

[14:57] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Can you give us a little bit of tea on that? That happens on that set that a viewer might not know.

[15:03] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, they—it's just what you—well, I don't have a chair, we know. So, and the two of them—and three—it's exactly what you would think with the two of them. He's cerebral, and the other one's insane, and you know, they're very funny, and they're—oh, Marty's always on.

[15:24] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, he seems like that. But you have done these amazing TV shows: "Only Murders," "Feud," and you're working with these huge people. What is it about a script or a job that makes you say yes?

[15:30] Jackie Hoffman: Uh, booking it.

[15:40] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, that's it. Is there anything that you look for in a script that you're like, "I love this role," or "I love this character"?

[15:46] Jackie Hoffman: Because, um, when I—that episode of "30 Rock" that I did that I hear is like pretty iconic, and people still come up to me and quote it, um, and the writing was just so insanely brilliant and so funny.

[15:58] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, "30 Rock" is stellar. I was just talking about Tina Fey on, uh, with Kate Rockwell about "Mean Girls," which was amazing. Did you ask her to come on?

[16:06] Jackie Hoffman: Who, Tina Fey? Not yet.

[16:13] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Do you think you could?

[16:19] Jackie Hoffman: She's a real hot woman out.

[16:19] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, do you think she would do it?

[16:25] Jackie Hoffman: What a loser. Um, no, do you have an in? Should we get her on the phone?

[16:31] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: No, do you want to call her on speaker?

[16:38] Jackie Hoffman: No. Who's the most famous person in your cell phone?

[16:41] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Oh wow, that's a good question. Thank you. Not like being asked the same questions you always get asked.

[16:48] Jackie Hoffman: Who's in my cell phone? God, is Amy the most?

[16:52] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Amy who?

[16:56] Jackie Hoffman: Amy Sedaris. She's pretty famous. Um, who's in my cell phone? I had a real—I have a lot of really famous people in my email.

[17:03] Jackie Hoffman: Ryan Murphy's famous. Is he in your cell phone?

[17:08] Jackie Hoffman: He's pretty famous.

[17:14] Jackie Hoffman: Who, Ryan Murphy? Is he in my cell phone? He's on—he's in my—on my email list. He did call me after I got nominated. Nathan Lane's in my cell phone. What the fuck am I talking about? Nathan Lane's on my cell phone.

[17:19] Jackie Hoffman: Marty Short's on my cell phone. Steve Colbert's on my cell phone. That's—they all did a birthday video for my last show I did. It was my 65th birthday. My last show was "Pub Show," and my brilliant director, Michael, had an idea about what if they all think you're dead and all give a eulogy.

[17:30] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: That's hysterical.

[17:30] Jackie Hoffman: So they all freaking did it, and they did.

[17:37] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Can you—where is it? Is it public?

[17:42] Jackie Hoffman: No. Can you send it to us so we can insert it here?

[17:42] Jackie Hoffman: Nobody gets it. Cut it, cut it. That's on my phone. The next time you'll hear it will be at the funeral, which won't be long from now. Happy belated birthday.

[17:51] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Oh, thank you. Um, so you're obviously so funny. You're a woman in comedy for years. Do you think there's a difference for women who do comedy now than there was 30 years ago?

[18:09] Jackie Hoffman: Oh God, yeah. I mean, things just—the world is so different, and you know, the classic what you can't say and, yeah, what you can say and people's attitudes and politics and everything is very weird. So I think people are much more restricted.

[18:24] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Restricted now. But do you think it was harder for women to break through in comedy prior?

[18:31] Jackie Hoffman: I think way back, yeah. But, um, yeah, I mean, there's people like Judy Gold who did it, and they're very—you know, people I really admire who are like really persistent. I've been working with Joy Behar a lot, and she's iconic.

[18:46] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: She really is so iconic. When you've done stand-up shows—

[18:56] Jackie Hoffman: Not so—I'm not solidly a stand-up. I've done them. Yeah, I don't have the courage to like get in a car and drive to the Comedy Vagina in Texas and do—I don't do that. I should, but I don't.

[19:10] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah, but you have, right? What inspires your stand-up? What kind of comedy inspires you the most or just intrigues you the most?

[19:18] Jackie Hoffman: Um, I just talk about what I know. It's like go with what you know. I don't talk about stuff I don't know about, so that means I'm pretty limited. And, you know, I lend an air of misery and hopelessness and meanness to everything I do.

[19:32] Jackie Hoffman: Right, with intention.

[19:42] Jackie Hoffman: With the intention of getting through 10 or 15 minutes, right? And then you've had it.

[19:48] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yes, and I never want it to happen again.

[19:54] Jackie Hoffman: Right. So you have lived in New York most of your life?

[19:54] Jackie Hoffman: Yes.

[19:54] Jackie Hoffman: Except when I was at Steppenwolf.

[19:59] Jackie Hoffman: When you're at Steppenwolf in Chicago for 10 years with Laurie Metcalf and Jessica Lange.

[20:06] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Jessica Lange, who was your teacher?

[20:06] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, exactly. What do you love most about the artistic scene in New York, and what has been something that you've learned from the city? I know that's a weird question, but it's—the city has a personality.

[20:14] Jackie Hoffman: Yes. Um, well, I mean, there's nothing like that. There’s no place like New York for that. It's just so—it has bigness. It has smallness. It has freaking everything, and it's everywhere. It's so everywhere. Like, you could go to a different show—literally, you could leave here and go to a different show every night, which is like the greatest thing at every hour.

[20:40] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Yeah. And what I've learned is don't talk to the cartoon animals in Times Square.

[20:47] Jackie Hoffman: That's right, especially when their heads are off, because then it gets real fucking weird.

[20:55] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Have you seen anything recently on Broadway, off-Broadway?

[21:01] Jackie Hoffman: I just saw "Ragtime" last night, and I saw "Shakespeare in the Park" the night before, "Winter's Tale."

[21:08] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: I heard it's long.

[21:12] Jackie Hoffman: Oh, "Winter's Tale"? Isn't that what's playing at Shakespeare in the Park right now, though?

[21:18] Jackie Hoffman: "Winter's Tale"? Yeah, it's fucking endless.

[21:26] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: It's long. I got invited to that, actually. Is it opening?

[21:32] Jackie Hoffman: Which hour? It's—I said I'm not available.

[21:40] Jackie Hoffman: I know it's very long, well done, well performed. What did you think of "Ragtime"?

[21:48] Jackie Hoffman: I loved it. I'm—Steve Flaherty is also in my cell phone, actually. We went to college together. He used to play piano for my singing class.

[21:56] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Amazing. Where'd you go to college?

[22:00] Jackie Hoffman: Uh, NYU. Did you meet—and did you major? What did you major in?

[22:06] Jackie Hoffman: In drama. Undergraduate drama. My father was happy; my mother was destroyed.

[22:14] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Was she?

[22:14] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, but then, you know—

[22:14] Jackie Hoffman: Was she? Once—once "Hairspray" happened, then she changed her tune.

[22:21] Jackie Hoffman: What about at Steppenwolf? But she happened.

[21:58] Jackie Hoffman: Proud when you read stuff. I'm a huge honor to be at seven. Well Alan went as well. So we have a lot of women who listen to this podcast who, you know, maybe feel odd get it odd woman out or no. Do I have to say something inspiring now and encouraging? Yeah, I do want to know what you want to be yourself. Don't be afraid of being the odd woman out own it. Like you are somebody like Shoshana Bean winning at Tony claim your space don't be afraid to take up space. You're somebody who, you know, we look at in the industry is just so unapologetically yourself and you've made a career by being yourself. So has that always been something that you didn't give a shit about that? You were just like I'm just me?

[22:45] Jackie Hoffman: No, I don't believe it, but I'm happy that other people think that that's the case. What do you mean you don't believe like you'd have never tried or have you tried to be somebody you're not to fit a mold? I've had to bite my tongue, but I a lot but I don't do it often and you know, I have gotten into a lot of trouble because of it because if you're, you know, speaking up like walking into an audition in LA and Mark Hirschfeld saying how are you Jackie? How am I? I just got hit by a car in $500, you know. But so, you know not often not accepted, right? You know, it's like my manager and I had this exchange and I'm like, they always say this. They always say we all love Jackie and he said oh, no, they don't all love Jackie. But you get work because you are yourself, yeah, not always but yeah, yes.

[23:42] Jackie Hoffman: So, why do you think it's important to stay true to who you are? Because what else do you have? I mean in your I know it's very tempting. It's like why wasn't I mean Julie Banker was brilliant as Emma Goldman and she is a lot younger than I am. But I was like man, I'd make a kick-ass fucking Emma Goldman. You would never see me because you know, I'm pegged as like filthy mouth comic odd woman out. I think Hairspray started a tradition with the improvising where I didn't tow the corporate line, right? So a lot of people think that's poison. I was just speaking about this topic with or Faye she was on oh, I love her love her. She was saying that she is a hard time as well getting seen for other roles because people just see her as like what's the character in Legally Blonde? Paulette and then Kit and all these like loudmouth women and she's like I don't even I'm not even allowed to be seen for other things.

[24:48] Jackie Hoffman: Jesus yeah, she's beautiful. Yeah, so fucking good. So good, but I'm saying so are you yeah people just need to well it's not up to casting directors have imaginations, right? You're like pigeonholed as this one thing. Yes. So, how do you break out of that? You don't make your own show. Yeah, exactly and you know the curse of getting famous first fame, you know getting well known enough that you could that you make a buck even if you're a housewife with real housewife with no talent, right, right. Do you would you be willing to be a real housewife?

[25:18] Jackie Hoffman: Yes, real housewives of New York Steppenwolf. That's the real housewives of Steppenwolf is Steppenwolf is in Chicago. Yes, this is why I got confused both with an s. Yes. Would you be willing to create a new show that shows a different side of you to show people? You know what you can do or are you just more comfortable staying with your schtick?

[25:41] Jackie Hoffman: Well, like what like create a show of dramatic monologue, yeah, like I don't know like you're your show. What's your show called? So funny miserable Jack. Oh, the last one was a miserable evening with Jackie. Yes, like something like that, which is expected right and people love it and people are gonna buy the tickets and support you. Would you pivot that and just shock everybody and to ballads and serious shit and just to show people hey, there's more sides to me than just this I can be Emma Goldman and I kept gold whatever gold Goldman Goldman. I can am I hope this is because I'm doing three interviews in a row. My that's a lot. I wouldn't have even guessed that and your manicure is great.

[26:26] Jackie Hoffman: Thank you. I do a powder it lasts longer just to show people and the industry. Yeah, I'm too lazy, but you're too lazy. You can hire someone to write it for you. True. Or I could just do a show of monologues. Also, if you were to do a one-woman show of serious monologues what would your top three be?

[26:46] Jackie Hoffman: Maria with how many bullets in this gun Chino? Okay, that's a good one number two, oh gosh, I guess Emma Goldman speech from Ragtime that's a good one whatever that is and I don't know something from Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf good. I think then that would give people yeah, but no casting person will show up. That's the thing. They never show up. We'll just send it's Guffman. They never show up. Maybe we'll just play more of a play Michael and I did to get called worked on called a Hanukkah Carol and it was like a Christmas Carol and I narrated it as Patrick Stewart and that had some tender arc moments and some different things in it. Nobody gave a shit. Did you enjoy doing that as an artist? Does it fulfill you? Yeah, you know, I enjoy doing if it's if it's my truth.

[27:43] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah. If it's like true to me then yeah, but I you know, I'm also like, you know at this point and at this age. It's like I don't like if I'm if I'm known as the odd woman out funny nasty irreverent hopeless dark uncastable bitch then so be it. I'm in acceptance. Yeah, I'm the last stage of grief. Yeah, but then career grief. I wouldn't get like your career is so great and I hope that you can take a step back and look in and be like look what I did and look what I'm still doing.

[28:25] Jackie Hoffman: Well, thank you. Shout out to you and your Emmy nominee Emmy nomination. It's almost 10 years ago. How tragic is that? Hey, some people never get to say it at all. True. Um, do you have any gossip from the set of the Gilmore Girls that you can share with us? Oh, I love that show. I am a Gilmore Girl. Yeah, I like to believe I am.

[28:48] Jackie Hoffman: Yes. Oh my god. I took talk and it's about a chair. There was like a tall cast chair and I think I won't mention the actors name the young man and I sat in the chair and you know, I am an odd woman out woman and the actor came up to the chair and he's like you're in my chair. You're joking. No, he threw me out of his fucking chair. You're joking. He threw you out of his chair. That was his chair. It's fucked up. Yeah. Matthew McConaughey's not in Gilmore Girls but it was a very magician. It was a very McConaughey esque kind of thing. Hey, I hate that story. I was really looking for like a nice positive Gilmore Girls story.

[29:38] Jackie Hoffman: No, but I am friends with Rose Abdu and we saw each other on the set. Love her. Yeah, everybody loves her stellar. She's stellar. That show is stellar. Were you a fan of the show before you got the role? No, I was never watched it. I didn't and when I did when I started to him like oh my god, this is so cool. I could see why everybody loves it. Love it. Is it's just like easy to watch. It's a feel-good most of the time. Yeah, it's quirky and smart. It's not stupid.

[30:08] Jackie Hoffman: Yeah, congrats on booking that show when it came out when the what's called a year in the life. Yeah, it was movies. Yes, of course, I've watched it many times like a psychopath. Well, I don't want people to think I booked the show God forbid. I never booked a show. I booked a get little guest part in one episode of the movies, but grateful still no chair. Do you get a chair? Did you get a chair on Feud or is this just an ongoing?

[30:36] Jackie Hoffman: I did get a chair on Feud and I still have feud and the Siri Grease Rise of the Pink Ladies, which nobody saw which is why we didn't talk about it. And the back part the part that has the name of the show when your name on it. Yeah, I saved I stole both of those and took them home with me. Well who's gonna want them? Well good you should steal them it makes up for all the times you didn't yes. They're both in my living room amazing out of all of the Broadway shows you've done what's been a role that has resonated with you the most?

[31:09] Jackie Hoffman: Somebody you miss something that has like stuck with you all these years in the part. I mean what's gonna resonate with me the cop with a siren on their head and Hairspray or the gym teacher or the prison guard or the mother or a fucking Greek muse and Xanadu or a singing teacher and On the Town or grandma on The Addams Family and Mrs. TV and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. That's the career. What's gonna resonate with me? Like what who's somebody you miss like who's somebody you miss playing? Oh God and like my character. I miss her. You know what you're like, oh my career whatever you did you just hear what you rattled off five shows a lot of shows. That's a lot of Broadway shows grateful. Not complaining.

[32:00] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Jackie you're so hair despair compare despair. Don't do it girls. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. You are the best odd woman out if you can leave with one word to our listeners on why they should continue to be the odd woman. What is that word?

[32:19] Jackie Hoffman: Hat.

[32:22] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Perfect. Thank you so much, thank you, even though I've got the step and now you're a pleasure. Oh, thanks. That's sweet.

[32:32] Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo: Hey odd squad. It's me again. Samantha Dawn Tuozzolo, hello your host of Odd Woman Out. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed listening as much as I enjoyed talking again reminding you to please like subscribe and follow go follow us on Instagram and TikTok at odd woman show and stay odd babies. Love you.