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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpn.fm, to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there.

[0:37] Speaker 2: The podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She is currently she is currently in the ensemble of the incredible Broadway production of funny girl. But before that, she did a regional production of Cats at the Arrow Rock Lyceum Theater performing at syllable. So welcome Leslie Blake Walker, and thank you for joining me. Hi so happy to be here. I'm excited to have you because I one of seen Funny Girl a couple times now, and love it, and so excited to kind of try to put that into the cats world. But also I know that you have been instrumental at helping other of my guests, which we will not call it by name, being ready for an episode. So I know that your cat's knowledge is unmatched. I'm excited to hear more about it today. Oh yes,

[1:22] Speaker 3: cats has been in my blood since I was about three years old. So if there's one show I know, probably more than any other, and probably more than most people, it is cats, the

[1:33] Speaker 2: musical. Well, let's start there. Let's start What the I always ask, like the first introduction, but if it's three years old, like, what is the three year old version of cats for you.

[1:42] Speaker 3: Oh yeah. So my mother was a dancer. She was a Vegas show girl. I'm from Las Vegas, and so she was a dancer. And I always, like, loved, kind of dancing around the house and everything. And she also was a huge, like, musical theater fan growing up and everything. And really wanted to expose me and my little brother to theater and everything. And so I remember there was one day where we were walking through like, target or something, or the video store, and we were picking like, new video VHS tapes to take home. And I remember her pointing out the 1998 recording of cats, like, on the shelf, I mean, like, Oh, this is such a great musical. Like, it's got singing, dancing and cats, like it's all your favorite things. Do you want to take this one? And I was like, yes, so I brought it home, and I watched it every day for the next, like, year and a half, and I would do all of the choreography in front of the TV, like I learned all of it I would just perform for my family. I'm sure they were so sick of cats by the time this VHS tape wore out. And it's funny, because if you ask my parents about it, my dad always says that the time he knew that I was going to be a dancer was when he was watching me dance cats in front of the TV, and I wasn't mirroring, which means if the dancer was on their right foot, I was on my right foot, even though, to a toddler brain, it would be like, Oh, that's their right foot, but I'm gonna step with my left foot, because it's the one that's right in front of me in the mirror of the screen. But I didn't do that. I, like, reversed it in my head and was doing the correct feet. And so my dad's like, that's when we were in trouble. That's when we were gonna be a dancer, when you're gonna be a performer. And so it is the reason why I'm a dancer, which is crazy.

[3:30] Speaker 2: So you so this is, like, literally, three years old. You're watching this, you're being able to pick up this choreography from the VHS that you're going through that is, yeah, I mean, that is clearly a talent at a young age to be able to do that and do it correctly, because it's not like, it's easy choreography, it's not like it's simple, quick things like, it's very difficult. Yeah, it was

[3:53] Speaker 3: challenging. And here's to say, I wasn't doing it well at three years old. I was giving it my best attempt.

[4:00] Speaker 2: Of course, did you gravitate towards certain cats at that age?

[4:04] Speaker 3: Yeah, I and what's really funny that I ended up like making my professional debut as Sylla Bub was, she was the one that was my favorite. I always, I apparently called her the moonlight girl because, you know, she's want to say small light and everything on top of the, you know, the old car and the dumpster and everything, and so she was the one I gravitated towards. I also loved Victoria. I thought she was so beautiful. I wanted to move exactly like her. And even still, to this day, like I work really hard on my extension with my legs, because I've always just wanted to do that solo, and now I'm too tall, and no one will ever cast me as that role, but I know I can do it, and that's enough for me. So all the kittens were my favorite, although the little kittens now, as I'm older, you know, like if I were to ever do the show, now I would be a bomb. I would be like one of the older cats, the taller ones. I will never play a kitten again. And and that's so I've come to peace with that. That's okay, but as a kid, those are the ones that I loved the most. Yeah,

[5:06] Speaker 2: I It's interesting to hear you say that, because I think, like every time I meet a dancer who saw the VHS early, it's like, it's it's Victoria, it seems to be the number one answer, which makes sense. But to hear you say it's all the kittens, and the fact that you were able to place like now the know the names, like, I as an adult learning the show, and having seen and done all these episodes, there's still a couple where I was like, I'm not sure which one that it, you know, like, which is

[5:30] Speaker 3: like, Yeah, I know them all, even the weird, like obscure ones that, because there's so many of them. And it's interesting to see. I love following, like regional productions of cats and stuff, to see which ones they choose to keep, because it really is kind of a choose your own adventure in terms of cast size. Like when I did it, we only had 20 people to do it, so a lot of characters were, like, kind of merged together, which is kind of easy to do with this show. But then I've seen, you know, casts of 40 doing cats, and I'm pretty sure that movie version was at least a cast that size, because they wanted to include a bunch of different artists from all the different casts around the world as they could with that movie. But there's so many, and they have the weirdest names. So it makes sense that people are like, what is that? Yeah,

[6:19] Speaker 2: well, it's, I love you saying that because the there has been production, it's like, I've talked to enough regional productions and people in all different versions of the show at this point now, or 100 plus episodes in. And there are some, like ensemble dancing cats that you can cut, especially the ones that have multiple tracks where it's like, they're, you know, Gus dances in the beginning is a different name, and it's been a couple different things. But then there's a Royal Caribbean cruise, which is down to 90 minutes, and they had to cut songs. And it's like, who would you cut there? And I know the answer, but I'm always curious, like, if you were doing a 90 minute production, who's the cat you're cutting first

[6:53] Speaker 3: I mean, we're cutting the whole pirate scene, all of it, it needs to go growl, tiger, griddle, bone, all of that, the weird Siamese cats. First of all, it's dated. Second of all, it's so unnecessary. I really do believe, like the penultimate cut down version of the show is the one they did on the 1998 movie. Like, I am a, I'm a when it comes to cutting down cats, that is it. That is the one, if you were to continue to kind of trim after that? Oh, goodness.

[7:26] Speaker 3: cut? I haven't I've never seen the Oasis cast do it. I've only seen okay, that tracks, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

[7:33] Speaker 2: And the Piro scene isn't in the revival. It's not part of it. They cut that because they

[7:38] Speaker 3: turned it into peaks and the polls, yes, which I did think was clever, though I still think that all you need for Gus is that is the song. I think it's heartbreaking enough. It is a beautiful moment of storytelling. It's so endearing. I think you don't need him to try and relive his glory days in a whole dance number. I just simply don't think you need to you honestly could probably cut just peaks and the poll calls altogether if you're trying to take it down in 90 minutes. I don't know if they did that. What I do love about the royal version is that they still do original choreography, which so many people don't do anymore. And I kind of am a person who believes that cats is one of those shows that it only works. It only works if you do it in kind of its original conception, movement wise. I think they're married to each other. I when I see people trying to do something else, I'm like, I'm so sorry. I like, love what you're doing. I love the enthusiasm. And yes, it's really cool to watch, but it will always feel incorrect to me. It just well,

[8:41] Speaker 2: you're not essentially, because you're not alone in that. But as someone who I was introduced not to that version. My first introduction was the revival, and I saw that twice, and then I did not think about the show again until the movie trailer came out, and then that's how we ended up here today. But most of my introduction and the only live version I've ever seen are the new version, or the new Andy Blakey Bucha choreography, which is very different than the original. And so the original for me is I have, I don't have a VHS because nobody has a VHS player anymore, but I it's what's on YouTube. Is that 1998 movie, so you can see pieces of it from there on the official cats page on YouTube. Yeah. I want to fast forward a little bit, though, because you make your professional debut, you're doing that choreography, and I want to hear a little bit about what they tell you, because regional productions, they give you some backstory. Obviously, you get to learn a little bit about your character, and you kind of go into what is this story. And I'm a little fascinated by that, especially for anybody who grew up like loving as a kid, because you probably learn a lot that you definitely didn't pick up as a three year old. And so what is that experience like, all of a sudden, learning what the what the ball actually is, and demeters backstory and all these like kind of dark adult concepts in this show that definitely went over. Your Head of the

[10:00] Speaker 3: three year old 100% well. And here's the thing, when I did make my professional debut doing cats, I was 10. I was still a kid, and so my director, who was in the original Broadway run of cats back in the 80s and the 90s, he had this crazy idea when he was brought on to do this production that he wanted syllabu to be an actual kid. So it was me, and then a bunch of people who had just hopped off that most recent national tour of cats. So I had a bunch of people who were, you know, very versed in cats. Had been doing it for years at that point, and then they threw me into it. And so a lot of it still did not get explained to me. I think I kind of started to figure things out in terms of, especially that part in the ball where there's the pota duh and there's, you know, everybody's just cuddling on the ground and stuff. I think even then I was like, Oh, I this is definitely more than what I've sort of perceived growing up. But I honestly was just so excited to be there that I so so so much continued to go over my head, and I was just happy to be doing the movement as I've gotten older and everything, and I, you know, have continued to be obsessed with cats and stuff. It's been fun for me to discover all those things and now be the person that explains those things to others. But I remember there were many conversations in the rehearsal process, because he learned the show from Jillian Lynn, who was very intentional in every choice that she made throughout the show, and so we learned it exactly how he learned it. But there were times I remember that there were conversations that would happen that I just wasn't a part of and there were, I did most of the track to a tee. So, like, all of the dance breaks that the syllabus Jemima is in, I was in, like, even though I was younger, like, they didn't make any accommodations for me. They were just like, figure it out, kid, do the choreography. Like, yes, you can. But there were a couple sections like I was cut from that section of the ball that was like very, you know, intimate and very much all about sex, like I was not in that there were, there were, like, a couple of other things that they chose not to have me in. I remember the way that they restructured it to make it make sense that I was a kid and he tried to make it to where the audience kind of better understood what the show was attempting to do was, instead of the tribe teaching the audience the ways of the Jellicle cat, it was the cast teaching me the brand new member of the tribe, what was going on. So there were many parts of it where, if I wasn't like actively in the number, I was sitting on the edge of the stage right next to the audience watching, and they were directing everything towards me instead of the audience. So it was, it was a different lens to view it through, and they definitely did not explain as much to me as they were talking about with the other cast members. Yeah, so

[12:56] Speaker 2: I did not realize was that young, because it's on your resume just as first, but there's no dates for it, so I didn't realize it was dates on your resume. Got it? Got it that? Okay, so that makes a ton of sense. So they basically just glossed over. It's like, it's cats still just go dance, and then you learn it. You know, as you've learned more about the show over the years, you kind of pick up all these things. Did you have any kind of aha moments when you were like, oh, that's what that was, when I was 10 and did not realize that, oh yeah. The

[13:25] Speaker 3: next, like, few years, as I was becoming a teenager, was a lot of oh, that's what was, okay, all right, okay. And I felt so, like, dumb. I felt so stupid, but I was 10, no,

[13:36] Speaker 2: and it's not stupid, it's Yeah, yeah. It's supposed to go over here, which is why kids go. It's also why I, like, have argued for a while. I don't think it should go, because there is so much the show

[13:47] Speaker 3: is about sex. Literally everything about it is about sex. And so it's really funny that it like it was my introduction to musical theater as a small child. I'm like, oh, that's hilarious, because so much of it is just not for children. Definitely.

[14:02] Speaker 2: Okay. I want to talk a little bit about what they told you then, because as a 10 year old, like, how much story are they giving you? About syllable,

[14:10] Speaker 3: a lot, a lot. I remember having, like, we on the on one of the first days we didn't, because we also, we put up the show in 10 days. It was a normal kind of summer stock schedule. And so we were we were brushing through stuff very quickly, but I remember day one was like he was having meetings with every single person to give them just kind of a spark, notes as to what their MO is throughout the show, what their character is like, just to get everybody on the same page. And mine was a lot about spirituality and being what I like to call closer to the source. You know, when someone is just that amount of distance like so, so close to the beyond, having just been born, having just been brought into the world, and having that continued bridge from life to beyond life in very big. Sick terms that a small child could understand. That's really what they tried to get me to hone in on. And being like you are the voice from essentially Heaven to Earth, like that is what you are. You are a voice of reason. You are a voice of innocence. You are essentially, kind of like the moral compass of what is happening here. And so they really tried to get me to tap into that, especially in that the syllable of solo at the top of Acts two and moments of happiness, in the channeling the energy through Corona, tanta mile into me. Like, they were really descriptive on like, Okay, now imagine a light. They're Connect. They're connecting to this, this light, but they can't quite bring it into words, and now you are the translator, and you are the you are speaking essentially from God at that point, because that was how I could best understand what they were talking about. So in terms of my character, that was what we that was what we decided and talked about.

[15:53] Speaker 2: So are you basically last year's Jellicle choice? Like, is that? Is that essentially what they're kind of telling

[15:59] Speaker 3: you away, yeah, as I thought about it over the years, I'm like, that would make sense that, like, this is a new round of life for Sylla bub, and she's that she was the last one. And I have sort of wondered, like, I wonder what the past life was like, and what they kind of told me was that the reason that syllabub relates to Grizabella so strongly is either that is her future or that is her past. Like she's the new Hot Shot, she's the new pretty one. She's like the newest one, kind of coming in, which is funny because in like the new movie, they tried to do that with Victoria, when they added that song and everything. But when I did the show, it was kind of, you're the one, and it's either you just came from that experience or that's kind of where you're almost going, and that's why the source is sort of pulling you to speak on her behalf.

[16:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, I've talked to some, at least one Victoria who believes that they were the last Jellicle choice. Yeah. So I've, like, always wondered, Is there, as I've debated why I don't think the right choice is being made this year, but I'm also like, well, what does that mean for last year and next year and the year after and the year after. Like, how's this criteria actually set? And so to have a 10 year old and kind of use you as what they use Victorian movie as, is, like, you're the lens to see the show from, it almost makes sense that

[17:13] Speaker 3: you would be last year's choice. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[17:17] Speaker 2: Fascinating. Um, what other kind of, like, relationships? Obviously, there's a Grizabella one, you're told. But what other ones do they tell you to, kind of like, dig into as you know, again, as a 10 year old, like, where are you? Are you looking at someone as mom or as uncle, or who else are you thinking about?

[17:33] Speaker 3: 100% so I was kind of told, essentially, in my relationships to the others, that like, Victoria and etc, were kind of like my besties. They were the ones that, whenever we were all just kind of gathered on stage or people were hanging out and watching the songs happening, they were the ones that were usually kind of like, you know, the wranglers of me. There was also, like, kind of an auntie relationship with Jenny. Any dots, she very much like, if I was doing, like, something kind of naughty. She was the one that was like, Ah, no, no, you've got to straighten up. And I was told that I was, like, a descendant from, like Demeter was essentially what my like, Mother kind of was

[18:13] Speaker 2: interesting. I know very father then.

[18:17] Speaker 3: So there's no, there's so much debate on that. I think, I think, I think Macavity, there are a lot of people that are, like, really wanting it to be Bucha, but I'm like, let's not be naive here. Let's think about this realistically. Like Macavity is the father of a lot of these children. And I think syllable, especially when you look at and I also believe in the original costuming of the show, giving us a lot of details on who's related to who she's got that deep red, you know, and not a whole lot of yellow, not a whole lot of black, but mostly red, you know, in the detailing throughout the whole entirety of the costume. And I think that is our answer. I think that's our answer, right there.

[19:01] Speaker 2: Interesting. I that one the family tree is hard. I've tried to figure it out. I've had people send me their, you know, their thoughts on it, and I can't, I can't still pinpoint it. It's like an open ended debate for a lot of stuff at the same time. They're also cats, so it's kind of like the whole point is they're just all having a ball, literally having a ball. And who knows. Yeah, so if you were, you kind of mentioned a little bit about today, you know, like, obviously, if you could do it, but today, if you were kind of going on, what would the like? Do you have you thought about the career progression for you of cats like you did, syllabub, you'd now be kind of a bomb, or maybe Demeter. Is there a Jenny and jelly or something in the future, or maybe Grizz in the future? Like, how does that progression look like for you? As like, if you want to do cats throughout your career?

[19:49] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think right now I'm very much in my kind of Demeter bomb era. That is the type of performer I am now. I'm very leggy. I've got a belty voice, like, a very strong. Wrong presence on stage. I don't, I don't exude as much naivete that is required of like, all the kitten tracks, even though, like, personality wise, I feel like I still have like, a rumple teaser in me. I feel like that's kind of who I am from day to day. And so, like, while I would love to do that and continue to tap into those, no one will ever cast me. I'm so tall, I am a solid five nine, I will never be cast as one of the kittens ever again. So I'm like, All right, well, I guess I'm more of a Demeter a bomb. I'm more of that. And I think, I think the song about Gus is the best song in the show, and I would love to sing that one day, especially in in the years like past bomb years into the jelly Loram years where I like want to be in cats, but don't want to dance as hard as everybody else is dancing like I would love to to move into that. I think her, her track is absolutely stunning throughout the show, and I think that's the best song in the show. And so I would love for that to kind of be my, my trajectory. If I ever get the opportunity to do the show again,

[21:05] Speaker 2: you'd have to probably do newer choreography, though,

[21:09] Speaker 3: which breaks my heart. And that the thing is, is, like I always said, what's funny is I, my best friend from college. His name's Jake, and he and I, every year in our vocal studio, we would have, like, an April Fool's master class thing where we would all prepare funny songs or big scenes and dance numbers. And we did one from CATS every single year in college. And so, like, if we had had like, a couple more years of college, we could have done a two person version of cats. And he and I always talked about the fact that if we were going to do it anywhere, we'd want to do it on Royal Caribbean, because they're doing the original choreography. Sure, it's shorter, it's condensed, but they are setting that work, and they're not, you know, altering it at all. Like, all the tracking is the same, like, so we're like, Oh, if we're gonna do it anywhere, we'd love to do it there, but I can't do that anymore.

[22:02] Speaker 2: It's a rough not only just like life, but just, I feel like it's such talented people. I've interviewed a few of them, and they're, you know, they're really good, yeah, but nobody's, you're on the cruise, like you're not going to the show. And that's why they had to cut the intermission, because nobody would stay. They'd hear a little memory, and a lot were leaving thinking it was over. And so it's, I feel like it's a tough crowd to perform to much more so than anyone regional Broadway tour, you've got a paid audience that's paid, you know, they've made a decision to go see it, whereas Royal Caribbean, you haven't, necessarily. But yes, they are doing the original shortened version of it. You have, I know that you, you know, obviously, with helping friends, you have cats conversations a lot. How do you like explain the show to someone who's not seen it? Or, like, how do you just like when you get into a conversation with a non theater person and it's clear you're the cats expert, like, what does that conversation sound

[23:00] Speaker 3: like it's I always approach it so gently, because if I get like, too into it, I'm like, I understand you think I'm crazy right now, but hear me out. What I usually start with by people who genuinely have absolutely no idea what the show is or what I'm talking about. I preface it by saying, cats is a piece of Dance Theater. It is a brilliant piece of dance theater. I think musical is a very light, you know, term for what it is. It is a huge accomplishment in dance theater and storytelling through dance and through lines. Through dance, it is the strongest in that so I'm like, if you watch it, as someone who is appreciating the storytelling through movement. I don't see how anybody can't, like, view that and appreciate that. So I, unless I'm talking to someone who is, like, genuinely interested, I try to not explain too much about the story. I'm like, Ah, yeah, so there's this tribe of cats, right? They're trying to pick which one's gonna die. And, like, I just, I try to not, I try to not mention any of that. I just go, you know, it is an anecdotal series of poems that are danced through, and it is beautiful. And as a dancer watching it, it's hard to not get emotional, because it really is such an accomplishment. That's about where I leave it when it comes to just the general public, that was a selfish

[24:20] Speaker 2: question. I'm still trying to figure out my elevator pitch for cats. When people find out that I have this podcast, usually, like, four or five interactions later, meeting into meeting, then, okay, I want to pivot. Unless there's anything. Is there any other theories that you are, like, passionate about in the like, backstory, like, I've obviously talked to so many different cast members, but is there one where you're, like, everyone's wrong about this, or this is, for sure, the way this has to be,

[24:45] Speaker 3: you know, I there's nothing I feel too incredibly passionate about. I mean, even I have, like, I have multiple different theories about, like, family trees and stuff. I'm like, Okay, well, if this happened, then that changes this, you know, like, I'm open. I also believe that. Of this was fully fleshed out when the show came to be, when you when Andrew Lloyd Webber is asked about cats, he's like, Dude, it's just about cats. Like they didn't sit and have these conversations like we are. So I truly believe that, like, if you give me a good argument, I'm who am I to say that you're wrong? You know, like, I can really accept a lot of cats theories, mainly because I think they're all hilarious. The fact that we all spend this much time thinking about it is funny. It just is. But why not? I

[25:29] Speaker 2: so I agree, and I love that there are some passionate arguments in people. And I think, like, what I kind of look at it is there's this brilliant world that was created that has like endless possibilities, because you're given two and a half hours to work off of, yeah, and very little lines and not a lot of stories. So you're trying to, like, say, well, these two are standing next to each other, or this one gave a wink to this one, you know, like, which is a lot of times just friends interacting on stage. So I love that this world was built, and it gives you that flexibility. And honestly, some of my favorite interactions with fans of my podcast are the ones where they're they totally disagree with me, because I'm like, Sure, give me your argument. Tell me why. Like, I don't. I'm not the authority of this. I I've talked to a lot of people, so I know a lot now, but there's the only person that can tell us yes or no are the original, like actual producers, like Andrew Weber and Joan Lynn and all the people that, like, really, really Trevor, none was that, like, truly built this. I could say, like, no, that's we didn't. We didn't do that. Everyone else is just guessing We'll be back after this short break. So that's leads us to my favorite part about doing this, which is, I love the world cats built because you can put it into so many different things. So as you are currently in Funny Girl, let's try to cast some funny girl, not cast members, but the characters as cats. And this one was a little harder, because I've thought a lot about these, and not all of them align out perfectly where some there's like, Oh, that is definitely that cat. This one, there's a couple. I think you could go multiple ways. So I'm gonna give you some names. I wanna hear who you think. And then if there's anybody else I'm missing, or anybody else you definitely think we should be covering you, let me know. But let's start. Let's start with the obvious.

[27:13] Speaker 3: Let's start with Fanny. Fanny. So when you when you think about her personality, right? She's big, unapologetic, funny and just very much like charismatic there. There are a couple ways you you can go with it. I think an obvious one that people would say is like, oh, a rumple teaser, because it's there's a lot of comedy going on there. And there's also a youth and a naivete there that causes her to make a lot of the choices that she does throughout the show. I think that one is a very easy one to kind of point through. That would actually probably be my top choice for her. I can make a couple of little like tiny arguments for others, but I think that one, I think it wins in my book.

[27:57] Speaker 2: So I had very similar reasoning, but I think I am thinking about the end of the show. And I was thinking more Jenny for the same reasons.

[28:05] Speaker 3: Interesting, yeah, Jenny, I and Jenny, like, because she has this maturity about her. She She is a little more, she kind of would be a future version of rumble teaser being like, she's still got that bubbly, you know, fun loving personality, but now she's a caretaker and stuff and and, you know, a mother. And I don't know if Fanny ends up in such this broken place where she needs to rebuild her herself and then climb out of that. I'm like, it's some, it's, um, she's got to be a mixture of cats, because there's a little bit of Grizabella there, you know, of course, so that obviously,

[28:42] Speaker 2: just with the belting alone, it's like, all right, they're gonna, they're gonna both come out and but I didn't see as much darkness in the character as you see in Grizabella. So that's why, yeah, poor towards Jenny, because I'm like, all the tap dancing fun drop your coat type of cat. But I definitely see the rumple teaser answer of the same with the exact same argument, yeah, okay, what about Nick? Hmm,

[29:04] Speaker 3: he's a, he's a swindler. You know? He's a, he's a ne'er do well, he is, but he's also charming. There is so much going on there, hmm, it's funny, because it's so hard for me to think of these outside of the actors that play them, because I have, I have, I have answers for um, my cast mates, but when you think about the character, we can do that next if you want. Oh my gosh, is it so much. I We have so many opinions. One of my cast mates has also done cats, and we, um, cast everybody as cats, which was really hilarious and fun for us. And everybody got super into it too. Like the entire ensemble was like, who am I? Who am I? And we're like, yeah, the best day of my life. Oh gosh, who do you think Nick is? I want to hear your thought on this one. First, I

[29:52] Speaker 2: think it's a mix between Tugger and Macavity. I think there's the mystery, like the bad Macavity kind of like swindling. Saying doing a lot of the kind of wrong stuff, but I'm the cavity feels malicious, yeah, doesn't feel as malicious, but he also feels like the like, I'm just gonna do whatever I want, which feels very Tugger So,

[30:10] Speaker 3: and I'm gonna give you the mixture of the two. I'm gonna bring in fourth consideration, rumpus, cat, okay, okay. But without, without the vigilante aspect of it, you know what I mean, the show off, sort of swindler that is not necessarily trying to do bad, but has evil eyes, you know, like there's something going on there, but isn't necessarily, you know, a bad person, but as a show off. So there is that, but, yeah, there's definitely that Tugger kind of swagger about him. You know, that old time, classic Hollywood swagger that I definitely see there.

[30:52] Speaker 2: Okay, what about Fannie's mom, Mrs. Bryce? Oh,

[30:56] Speaker 3: god, that's a Grizz all the way. My goodness, just, just Grizz, Grizz grize. And that's why I would cast Tova as to I would cast, I would cast Tova as Grizabella any day of the week. Let her, let her do it. Let her have that 11 O'clock Number. Everyone will will just love it, Marvel in it.

[31:17] Speaker 2: I like that, but I also, my whole thesis is anti Grizabella. And I love tovas. I don't want to, like, be like, All right, hold on, let's put her in the one character that I'm gonna spend every episode arguing about. No, I

[31:29] Speaker 3: still don't believe that Grizabella is the one that deserves to die. You know, I think we'll get there. Yeah, we will get there. I believe that you can give the most, like, heartfelt 11 O'clock Number monolog, you know you've ever given your life, and I will still look at that character and be like, No, sorry. Next. Yes,

[31:50] Speaker 3: Oh, Eddie. He's so lovable, and he's like the best friend. He's very much a mixture, I think of like a skimble Shanks, a Mongo Jerry and an alanzo, because there's a bit of the Oh, god, what's the word? He's like, he's he's a little cocky in the fact that he, like, thinks he knows best, which is very much the like the elder teenage male cats, the alanzo, the Play Doh, the tumble Brutus and all them, like a little arrogance there that it very much existence. There's the playfulness that I love of like Mungo Jerry and kind of, you know, messing around with stuff. So I think, I think it's a mixture of all those. And then, and then, I think just the charming, lovable nature and also a guiding protector that is skimble shanks. Like always making sure he's a choreographer, and he handles all the show girls. And he also is always looking out for Fanny and wants to make sure everything is running smoothly. And I think that's where the skimble Shanks comes in.

[32:56] Speaker 2: So I agree. I also think there's tap, so that's kind of where I put skimbo in, and then I had missed, though, for a lot of the same reasons, of like, the lovable choreographer, like, but a lot of what you said too for alanza. So I think similar argument just maybe picked a slightly different character, but I had a more skimble,

[33:13] Speaker 3: yeah, I think if you were to only pick one, that would be it for sure. Okay,

[33:17] Speaker 2: who do you want to do next? Who else have you thought about.

[33:22] Speaker 3: So the way, there's the poker ladies, right, there's Mrs. Stray Kosh and Mrs. Meeker. And I think they are, I think stray Kosh is very much a Jenny, any dots, and Miss Meeker is Jelly Loram. I think they are the ultimate duo. They are the the two best friends that anyone could have, and that would be, that would be them for sure. Yeah, I

[33:43] Speaker 2: had them, but I was trying to figure out, because I haven't seen the show in a little bit, I was trying to figure out which was, which is, like, I know the two of them, but I wasn't sure which one was the but that's what I had as well. What about Emma? Did you have anything for Emma?

[33:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, I There are several ways you can go with Emma. I mean, she's very soft spoken. She has. She's younger, but is a little more mature than the so if you I want, I want to put her in the kitten category. But she's not and etc, and she's not a syllab up, because she knows more than that. So I kind of want to put her in more of a Victoria or Electra category. I don't think she, I think she's a little possibly too. This is the only word I can come up for this, like a little more homely than I would normally put people in the Victoria category for, I think people who are Victoria are a little more, you know, have that little more regalness to them, very sophisticated. I don't see that as Emma, but the mature, younger aspect I would take from that. And Electra is kind of all of those things. You know, she is one of the older ones, but she doesn't she's not as sophisticated as Victoria, so I'd probably put her there.

[34:56] Speaker 2: Do you remember who you casted, all your cast mates? And that's because you just know. Them off real quick. Oh

[35:01] Speaker 3: my gosh. So I mainly my cast mate, um, Mariah, did most of this because I didn't want to have any bias when it came to casting me. And she has a really, like, blanket way of looking at all this. So she cast me as Victoria, which I was honored. Yeah, I was like, This is my dream. I'm living my best life. We had a one of our brilliant ensemble members who covers Nick Steven, Mark Lucas, I believe he was monkey strap, which makes so much sense. He's such a great storyteller and has an amazing presence. We had, I believe Leslie fleezner as jelly Lorem, because she's kind of one of the older one of the show girls of all of us, but it has this gorgeous voice and is a beautiful storyteller. And so that's who we cast. She was cast as her, I believe Mariah cast herself as tanta mile, and then one of our other ensemble members, Justin, as core cop, because they're they're so cut from the same cloth, and then to have that like duo with each other, the silliest castmate that I have. Her name is Misumi Iwai. She is a hooligan, and I'm obsessed with her. She is a rumple teaser. All the way we were like, This is the only option for this. We will be hearing no arguments from anybody. She is that. And then as as Sylla bub, we have a swing. Her name is Miriam, who is one of the younger castmates out of all of us. And she's so sweet and so bright, like sees the best in everybody and works so hard. And she was, she was the go to choice for syllabi. I was like, I can sign off on that. She can take the syllable crown from me.

[36:43] Speaker 2: Anybody that was, like, not upset about it, but like, there's like, oh, Grizabella, you're a little little dark and a little upset with life. Like, did you have any of those moments where you're just like, we're gonna or Macavity of like, Yeah, you're a little crime driven here.

[36:58] Speaker 3: You know, I don't think we actually ended up casting anybody, because, again, there were so many cats to choose from. I think we made we didn't cast anybody as Macavity. I don't think, I don't lean, and we don't really have any villains in our cast. I also, like every we truly are like a family over in the August Wilson, like we get along so well. Everybody's down to clown. It's such a great fun group of people. So everyone, I don't think anybody was particularly upset with who they got, because we were all just like, this is all very silly. No, yeah,

[37:30] Speaker 2: yeah. I mean, you're also, again, being cast as a cat, right? Like, you can't help that. Can you really

[37:39] Speaker 2: I love it. That's such a fun like, it's, I did. I have talked to somebody who that was their party trick, that they would go in and be like, Give me 10 minutes talking to somebody, and I'll tell they. Tell you what cat they are. Yeah, that's, that's, I could probably do that your future. That's your future.

[37:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, when I'm done just with performing on Broadway, all I'm gonna do is just walk around the streets of New York like one of those sidekicks with the fold up table. Except I'm just going to tell people which cat they

[38:06] Speaker 2: are, yeah, and they will know exactly what you're talking about, exactly. Okay, let's do some rapid fire. If you could go on for any track in cats for one night. Forget. If you're too tall, too short, can sing it, male, female, whatever. Who would you want to go on as Victoria? You want to live your live your dream. I want

[38:24] Speaker 3: to live my dream. I want to dance the solo. I want to she has the best. She has. Gets all the best dance breaks throughout the show. She also gets some fun comedic moments. She She is my track 100%

[38:35] Speaker 2: if what are your Who are your favorite and least favorite cats characters

[38:40] Speaker 3: I as characters I love, Mungo, Jerry, rebel, teaser, skimble, Shanks, Gus. I just want to hug and love and never let go forever and ever. Characters that I dislike. I mean, obviously Macavity, he can, he can go away. I don't know. I get annoyed with, like, the the alanzo and Plato and all them. I'm like, You guys are you think you're so cool, and you're really not that cool. I get slightly annoyed with them. I think I also just equate them to, like, the stereotypical, like musical theater male who, like, really think that they are God's gift to this planet. And I'm like, let's all calm down here. We're in unitards. Let's humble ourselves for a moment. That's kind of how I feel towards them.

[39:29] Speaker 2: How much of this do you think was centers around your syllab of experience versus like, has it changed? Or was that the as a 10 year old, you're like, all right, calm down, guys, and then that's why you dislike them. Or is it a over years you've kind of been like, Yeah, I kind of, I'm over these ones. It's

[39:45] Speaker 3: definitely, probably an over years sort of thing. I remember when I was that age and doing the show and remembering who in the cast, like I bonded with the most, and who I got along with. It really were the ones that were, like, slightly older and, um. Understood, like, kind of what scary position I was put in. And so I remember the guy who played Rum Tum Tugger. His name's Dave, and he's currently in the cast of bad Cinderella. He was my Rum Tum Tugger, and I, I remember he, like, just made a point to joke with me. And, you know, he treated me like one of his peers, like, I didn't feel like I was a 10 year old when I was, you know, hanging out with him and stuff. And I've told him this, like, you know, years later, we've actually we got to work together a couple years ago, and I hadn't seen him since I was, you know, 10 years old. And I remember telling him, I'm like, I Rum Tum Tugger was one of my favorite cats for the longest time, I think because I remembered how awesome he was with me, and how kind and funny he was and and he still is. He's one of the one of the best people I know,

[40:48] Speaker 2: but yeah, such a fun role in the relative. Oh yeah,

[40:53] Speaker 3: he's, I mean, he just gets to have the shirt off, and everybody loves him. And then, I mean, he's hilarious, 10 out of 10.

[41:01] Speaker 2: Favorite song from the show, Gus the theater cat. I think I know where this is going, which is great if we could put one cat in the Funny Girl world, who would we put and why? Who would fit best in there? Hmm,

[41:19] Speaker 3: like if we were to just place a cat in there, or are we replacing one of the existing characters with a

[41:25] Speaker 2: cat? No, let's place a cat in there. But I'm thinking more from a personality standpoint, not like, because it's gonna be weird to place a cat in any in any non cat show. So I'm thinking like, if we just took the personality type, who would best fit in what moment of funny girl, like we're in the in that world.

[41:42] Speaker 3: I mean, I think the one that comes most in mind is Gus stepping in as sort of like the the fatherly Ziegfeld type, you know, I think, though it's one of the most like, beautiful kind of moments of Funny Girl is when Fanny has those interactions with Z felt, and he's no longer, like hard on her. He's, you know, watched this, this woman, you know, grow up and become this incredible star and everything. And I just, I think Gus would fit so perfectly into those moments, because he has all this perspective and all this, you know, appreciation for life that I think would be just absolutely lovely. I

[42:24] Speaker 2: love that. I love that more than the one I thought of. Which one did you think of? I just see bus for Jones owning, like, a couple of these, like, theaters that, oh yeah, he's performing in, like, I could see him funding so much. Or he's the giving, you know, Nick money on the side to do some of these, like, crazy things that aren't gonna go well, like, I just see him being the like, the money man behind so much of stuff popping in multiple times throughout different pieces of the show. I

[42:50] Speaker 3: would pay so much money to to see that. That'd be so funny. My

[42:54] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think my goal is to cast cats into every different thing I can possibly think of. I love glad we, glad we were able to do Finnick, Funny Girl. All right, most important question, and I know you're gonna agree with me, so I'm excited to hear your rationale, but I've argued at length. I don't think Grizabella is the right no choice. And I want to hear your argument. And for who you want to defend,

[43:16] Speaker 3: the wrong cat died. Okay, Giza Bella was the wrong cat. And here's and my argument for Gus, okay, it was his time. He was ready. He was ready to go. And so in here's another question that so many people in, like the cats world debate is like, what happens if you die and you don't go to the heavy side layer? What happens? Because that is a possibility, you cannot be chosen and still die. Okay, Grizabella was not as close to death as Gus is. Gus is inches away from crawling behind, you know, furniture and just softly passing away. He's inches away from that his memory is going he, you know, is, is very emotional. He's in that, you know, place of coming to terms with his own mortality. He's ready, and he deserves another life. But now the other argument I've had with people is, has Gus already used up his nine lives? Now? My the optimistic side of me wants to think, no, he's got one more left. He's got more, but I don't know. I genuinely don't know, but he, he is the one for me. Grizabella is fine. Okay. She's maybe still a few, a few years away from, you know, being not close to death. So I

[44:36] Speaker 2: agree completely. I think Gus is the most logical choice. Makes the most sense. I do think Christopher, who was the 2016 guest, one of my first guests, said he didn't have another life to live. And I'm like, Yeah, but you're just saying that because you had to convince yourself every night that you weren't the choice. And so, like, I do think there's that angle, but that was his argument, of, like, why he wasn't the choice. I'm with you that I think she's not ready to go because she. Used to spend time with her family, go home, spend a year. She has no

[45:03] Speaker 3: redemption arc like you know she she spends this whole time trying to prove to the cats that she's changed and that she's ready to come home and ready to be with them again. And I don't think she did enough throughout the course of the play and throughout the course of her pity party songs to actually convince them that she was like, ready to be, you know, ready to change her ways. And so instead of giving her the opportunity to be like, Okay, you're saying all this stuff. You want to be part of our lives again. Awesome. Do that. They didn't do that. They said, Okay, well, then you can just die and come back and be a different person, like I just It frustrates me to no end. I'm like, you just gave her the easy way out, instead of forcing her to accept the consequences of her actions, I

[45:51] Speaker 2: No arguments. I do want to ask this question in a slightly different way, because I saw Leona Lewis as my first Grizabella. So this whole thing really stems the fact that I thought I saw the weirdest X Factor show in human history. So if you were voting as an audience member purely from an X factor style standpoint, like, who would you imagine you've got the package before of all the back stories, like, you get a little piece put on TV, and then you get to see their performance. Who would you pick? Oh, guys,

[46:17] Speaker 3: I'm basing it off of their talent show alone and

[46:22] Speaker 2: whatever they would pre package to try to, you know, they, they always do, like the I do think that gives Grizabella a little bit of advantage, as you could put together the sob story of her life before she goes on and sends memory. But that's

[46:41] Speaker 3: his his story is still more more people are more inclined to be like, Oh, well, he deserves it, whereas Grizabella package would be like, yeah. So she abandoned all of her friends and family when she became famous. Now she's washed up and she's not famous anymore, so she's crawling back to the people she abandoned. Like, no, I'm not gonna choose you to die any day of the week. I'd rather choose one of the people who gave a fantastic dance performance. I'd choose the magician, or I'd choose the tap dancing girl with I'm

[47:16] Speaker 3: Okay, so here's my other thing. Victoria is not campaigning,

[47:19] Speaker 2: okay? Yeah, she's basically on stage. There is that, there is

[47:23] Speaker 3: that she, she's not even close to ready to even start campaigning, because there are cats that are actively campaigning throughout the ball to, you know, be chosen. Victoria is not one of those cats. She's not campaigning. She's not trying. She's not trying to go. So I don't She's not from the X Factor competition, from the X Factor competition. I mean, give it to misto. Give it to give it to misto police too.

[47:47] Speaker 2: So I put my answer that first question was Tugger mestles, because X Factor has a history of making the one directions and fifth harmonies. Oh, yeah. So I wanted that do it together. Yeah, I love it. This has been so fun, so many great moments. I did 10 year old syllabi and to relive your your moments and discuss all this crazy fun and talk a little bit about Funny Girl, how can people stay in touch with you on social media and everything else you're doing? Absolutely

[48:15] Speaker 3: I am on Instagram. My full name at Leslie Blake Walker, and then I am also on Tiktok at legs Lee. Bw, my friends call me Lex Lee. And then I also make all of the tiktoks for funny girls social media. So if you want to follow along in a lot of the shenanigans of funny girls, specifically, I do create a lot of that content. And so that's at Funny Girl Broadway official on Tiktok.

[48:43] Speaker 2: And when is the brought Funny Girl cats combination coming to Tiktok?

[48:48] Speaker 3: I you know now I'm inspired. It could any day now.

[48:55] Speaker 2: Well, this has been absolutely so much fun. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your cat's knowledge and history with us. Boris, thank you so much for having me, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died podcast, break down the cast atrophy to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher or any other citizen podcast, follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Tiktok at the wrong cat died. Or check our website, the wrong cat died.com.